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I have translated this page from the spanish & Italian wikipedia.-- Remus10 ( talk) 04:57, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
Here it is an excerpt (I can translate it, if required):
« Nei primi anni del Seicento Ferdinando I di Toscana ...valuta la possibilità di una colonia brasiliana. Il 30 agosto 1608 l’ingegnere fiorentino Baccio da Filicaia,...gli invia una lettera da Lisbona. In essa ricostruisce la conquista del Brasile e spiega le ragioni del declino della colonia lusitana. Neanche un mese più tardi Ferdinando fa armare una caravella e una tartana nel porto di Livorno e le affida al capitano Thornton. Il viaggio è in realtà preparato da tempo – la lettera di Baccio ha soltanto accelerato un programma già stabilito - e il granduca ha persino chiesto a Robert Dudley una pianta dell’Amazzonia, da quest’ultimo esplorata nel 1595. Dudley consiglia a Thornton di cercare l’oro sulle rive del Rio delle Amazzoni e dell’Orinoco. Ferdinando ordina più prosaicamente di caricare balle di merci e di fondare, se possibile, un avamposto commerciale. Thornton naviga per quasi un anno: approda in Guyana e in Brasile, esplora il Rio delle Amazzoni e l’Orinoco, rientra facendo tappa alla Caienna e a Trinidad. Il 12 luglio 1609 è di nuovo a Livorno, ma non trova nessuno cui riferire la propria impresa. Il 7 febbraio di quell’anno il granduca è morto e a Firenze non si pensa più alla possibilità di fondare una colonia o un comptoir commerciale oltreoceano. »
Sincerely, I don't see any problem with POV. It is just plain history (and nobody in the Spanish & Italian wiki has complained about). Cheers.-- Remus10 ( talk) 05:12, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
I have just removed the tag, as per above discussion. Thanks to Keatingbeach, 3leopard and Rubinmar for their support. Cheers. -- Remus10 ( talk) 04:02, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
Since the colonisation (spelled with an "s", see WP:ENGVAR) never happened and the article only refers to a speculative attempt and immigration, it should be renamed. You can't name it after something that never happened ( Italy's victory of WWII, anyone?). The section on supposed "colonies" of immigrants should also go as it's more accurately covered by Italian diaspora. Single issue articles, please. Brutal Deluxe ( talk) 00:42, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the brutal vandalism that wants to erase the opinions of scholars like Sanfilippo about the tentative of an Italian colonization in the Americas. Thank you Keastingbeach for your support.-- Remus10 ( talk) 16:17, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
No, there are many tentatives of settlement in the historical colonization process, as we all know, and all of them are worth to be included in an Encyclopedia. Of course they must be confirmed by academic research, not by personal POVs of wikipedian users. And Prof. Sanfilippo is renowned in Italy.-- Spalatino ( talk) 18:15, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved by another editor. Note that at the time of close, the sockpuppets in this discussion are listed at Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Brunodam. Vegaswikian ( talk) 19:34, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Italian colonization of Americas →
Thornton expedition — What the current article calls an "
Italian colonization of Americas", similarly to the
German and
Scottish ones, never resulted in a lasting colony. Crucially, and unlike the latter cases, the potential Tuscan settlers never left the dock for the New World. After a brief exploration expedition by English captain
Robert Thornton, and the death of the Grand Duke of Tuscany, the whole scheme was abandoned. Should the article still be named 'Italian colonisation'? This article is the subject of a naming dispute, and although I opened the discussion
I take no position on the matter.
Deusdemona (
talk) 05:53, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Maintain. Same reasons of Keartingbeach.-- BdLM ( talk) 17:43, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
I guess that with Spalatino and his zombie army gone, we can declare a consensus of sort and move back the article. I'll leave the discussion open in case anyone who isn't here to fool us has something to say on the matter, though I doubt it.-- Deusdemona ( talk) 10:59, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
For those who can't be bothered to Google.
http://www.answers.com/topic/colonization The act or process of establishing a colony or colonies.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/colonized 1. To form or establish a colony or colonies in. 2. To migrate to and settle in; occupy as a colony. 3. To resettle or confine (persons) in or as if in a colony. 4. To subjugate (a population) to or as if to a colonial government. v.intr. 1. To form or establish a colony. 2. To settle in a colony or colonies. colonized - inhabited by colonists
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_definition_of_colonization Colonization is invading and taking over sovereignty of another area, which then becomes known as a colony. "Colonies" are then established by one or more settlements. They are inhabited by emigrants who are the colonizing power.
http://www.brainyquote.com/words/co/colonization145722.html The act of colonizing, or the state of being colonized; the formation of a colony or colonies. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/colonize 1.to establish a colony in; settle: England colonized Australia. 2.to form a colony of: to colonize laborers in a mining region. –verb (used without object) 3.to form a colony: They went out to Australia to colonize. 4.to settle in a colony. Brutal Deluxe ( talk) 18:13, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
While I understand that the convention for other nation-states is to use 'British', 'Danish' (et al) colonization of... as the WP:TITLE, the recent good faith broadening of the scope of the article is on the WP:NOR side of the spectrum. Such an article move and scope would require reliable sources to justify the new lede, and the inclusion of the Hospitaller colonization of the Americas under the title "Italy and the colonization of the Americas".
If reliable sources can be tabled to back up these changes, I'd be more than happy to discuss changes to the content. -- Iryna Harpy ( talk) 19:41, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
The Golden Age of Piracy site has some text identical to this article. I am not sure whether this article is a copyvio or which article has copied the other. Cwmhiraeth ( talk) 07:08, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I have translated this page from the spanish & Italian wikipedia.-- Remus10 ( talk) 04:57, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
Here it is an excerpt (I can translate it, if required):
« Nei primi anni del Seicento Ferdinando I di Toscana ...valuta la possibilità di una colonia brasiliana. Il 30 agosto 1608 l’ingegnere fiorentino Baccio da Filicaia,...gli invia una lettera da Lisbona. In essa ricostruisce la conquista del Brasile e spiega le ragioni del declino della colonia lusitana. Neanche un mese più tardi Ferdinando fa armare una caravella e una tartana nel porto di Livorno e le affida al capitano Thornton. Il viaggio è in realtà preparato da tempo – la lettera di Baccio ha soltanto accelerato un programma già stabilito - e il granduca ha persino chiesto a Robert Dudley una pianta dell’Amazzonia, da quest’ultimo esplorata nel 1595. Dudley consiglia a Thornton di cercare l’oro sulle rive del Rio delle Amazzoni e dell’Orinoco. Ferdinando ordina più prosaicamente di caricare balle di merci e di fondare, se possibile, un avamposto commerciale. Thornton naviga per quasi un anno: approda in Guyana e in Brasile, esplora il Rio delle Amazzoni e l’Orinoco, rientra facendo tappa alla Caienna e a Trinidad. Il 12 luglio 1609 è di nuovo a Livorno, ma non trova nessuno cui riferire la propria impresa. Il 7 febbraio di quell’anno il granduca è morto e a Firenze non si pensa più alla possibilità di fondare una colonia o un comptoir commerciale oltreoceano. »
Sincerely, I don't see any problem with POV. It is just plain history (and nobody in the Spanish & Italian wiki has complained about). Cheers.-- Remus10 ( talk) 05:12, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
I have just removed the tag, as per above discussion. Thanks to Keatingbeach, 3leopard and Rubinmar for their support. Cheers. -- Remus10 ( talk) 04:02, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
Since the colonisation (spelled with an "s", see WP:ENGVAR) never happened and the article only refers to a speculative attempt and immigration, it should be renamed. You can't name it after something that never happened ( Italy's victory of WWII, anyone?). The section on supposed "colonies" of immigrants should also go as it's more accurately covered by Italian diaspora. Single issue articles, please. Brutal Deluxe ( talk) 00:42, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the brutal vandalism that wants to erase the opinions of scholars like Sanfilippo about the tentative of an Italian colonization in the Americas. Thank you Keastingbeach for your support.-- Remus10 ( talk) 16:17, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
No, there are many tentatives of settlement in the historical colonization process, as we all know, and all of them are worth to be included in an Encyclopedia. Of course they must be confirmed by academic research, not by personal POVs of wikipedian users. And Prof. Sanfilippo is renowned in Italy.-- Spalatino ( talk) 18:15, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved by another editor. Note that at the time of close, the sockpuppets in this discussion are listed at Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Brunodam. Vegaswikian ( talk) 19:34, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Italian colonization of Americas →
Thornton expedition — What the current article calls an "
Italian colonization of Americas", similarly to the
German and
Scottish ones, never resulted in a lasting colony. Crucially, and unlike the latter cases, the potential Tuscan settlers never left the dock for the New World. After a brief exploration expedition by English captain
Robert Thornton, and the death of the Grand Duke of Tuscany, the whole scheme was abandoned. Should the article still be named 'Italian colonisation'? This article is the subject of a naming dispute, and although I opened the discussion
I take no position on the matter.
Deusdemona (
talk) 05:53, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Maintain. Same reasons of Keartingbeach.-- BdLM ( talk) 17:43, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
I guess that with Spalatino and his zombie army gone, we can declare a consensus of sort and move back the article. I'll leave the discussion open in case anyone who isn't here to fool us has something to say on the matter, though I doubt it.-- Deusdemona ( talk) 10:59, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
For those who can't be bothered to Google.
http://www.answers.com/topic/colonization The act or process of establishing a colony or colonies.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/colonized 1. To form or establish a colony or colonies in. 2. To migrate to and settle in; occupy as a colony. 3. To resettle or confine (persons) in or as if in a colony. 4. To subjugate (a population) to or as if to a colonial government. v.intr. 1. To form or establish a colony. 2. To settle in a colony or colonies. colonized - inhabited by colonists
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_definition_of_colonization Colonization is invading and taking over sovereignty of another area, which then becomes known as a colony. "Colonies" are then established by one or more settlements. They are inhabited by emigrants who are the colonizing power.
http://www.brainyquote.com/words/co/colonization145722.html The act of colonizing, or the state of being colonized; the formation of a colony or colonies. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/colonize 1.to establish a colony in; settle: England colonized Australia. 2.to form a colony of: to colonize laborers in a mining region. –verb (used without object) 3.to form a colony: They went out to Australia to colonize. 4.to settle in a colony. Brutal Deluxe ( talk) 18:13, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
While I understand that the convention for other nation-states is to use 'British', 'Danish' (et al) colonization of... as the WP:TITLE, the recent good faith broadening of the scope of the article is on the WP:NOR side of the spectrum. Such an article move and scope would require reliable sources to justify the new lede, and the inclusion of the Hospitaller colonization of the Americas under the title "Italy and the colonization of the Americas".
If reliable sources can be tabled to back up these changes, I'd be more than happy to discuss changes to the content. -- Iryna Harpy ( talk) 19:41, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
The Golden Age of Piracy site has some text identical to this article. I am not sure whether this article is a copyvio or which article has copied the other. Cwmhiraeth ( talk) 07:08, 19 December 2017 (UTC)