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@
Mattias321: Can you explain your reasoning for removing the U15 side?
Kosack (
talk) 08:37, 12 July 2019 (UTC)reply
Hello
GiantSnowman and
Kosack! As I explained in my edit summary, it's up to each national football assocation to decide how to classify their youth caps. The
Swedish Football Association have a very clear classification system which is based on the UEFA tournaments (U17, U19 and U21). If we take
Isherwood as an example, his matches 2013–July 2015 (15 to 17 years old) counts as
Sweden U17 caps, and his matches August 2015–2017 (17 to 19 years old) counts as
Sweden U19 caps. There is and never has been a
Sweden U15 team.
Sweden U16 and
Sweden U18 are just the names for the U17 and U19 teams pre-August 2001. This is the standard for all
Swedish footballers and many other UEFA assocations use the same praxis. However, this might be confusing to you as the
FA use the U16–U19 classification system instead (not even they have U15). Bradford City, Daily Record and The Scotsman probably just translated Isherwood's caps into their own classification system to help their readers understand. That doesn't mean it's a good source compared to the
Swedish FA. After all, it's the Swedish FA, not Bradford City, Daily Record and The Scotsman, who classifie their own youth caps. For example, I wouldn't try to change
Neymar's youth caps into neither the Swedish nor the English system. The
Brazilian Football Confederation have their own system (U17, U20, U23) and that's the way it should be. // Mattias321(talk) 10:18, 12 July 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Mattias321: Thanks for replying, what's the age group before under-17 in Sweden? I believe most European nations generally follow the UEFA levels of 17, 19 and 21 but there are certainly times where this can differ, for example the
Wales under-20 side was created just to compete in a tournament. Also, England
do have an under-15 side.
Kosack (
talk) 11:42, 12 July 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Kosack: As I said, there is no age group before under-17 in this classification system. Isherwood's matches in 2013 and 2014 (as 15 and 16 years old) counts as U17 as well. Sorry I missed England U15, but they don't seem to have a article here on Wikipedia. Anyhow, I strongy think that the Swedish FA is the most reliable source in this case, and therefore that the article should be changed. // Mattias321(talk) 12:24, 12 July 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Mattias321: The permanent merging of age groups seems a bit strange as there are sources claiming that Sweden were fielding an under-18 side as recently as last year (
[1],
[2],
[3]). Although Sweden may primarily field the three main age groups, is there is a chance that a team was fielded at U15 level, U16 level, etc for whatever reason?
Kosack (
talk) 14:03, 12 July 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Kosack: As I said before, no. You may classify it as a U15 or U16 match (as the English FA does), but the Swedish FA lump them together as U17. Strange or not, this is how the Swedish FA does it. And this system with three categories in Sweden dates back to the 1950's with ungdomslandskamper (youth, U21), juniorlandskamper (junior, U19) and pojklandskamper (boy, U17). And, as I stated before, many other UEFA countries use this praxis as well. And yes, the English FA will of course say that England U18 played against Sweden U18 as it makes sense in their own system. That doesn't mean the Swedish FA use this system for their players. And why should Soccerway be regarded as a more reliable source than the
Swedish FA? After all, it's up to each national association how they classify their caps. All
Swedish footballers use the same praxis. Why should Thomas Isherwood be an exception? // Mattias321(talk) 20:33, 12 July 2019 (UTC)reply
Mattias' explanation does seem to be consistent with other articles as I can't see any mention of U18, etc in another Swedish player article during a quick scan.
Kosack (
talk) 16:24, 13 July 2019 (UTC)reply
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following
WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Association football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FootballWikipedia:WikiProject FootballTemplate:WikiProject Footballfootball articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sweden, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Sweden-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SwedenWikipedia:WikiProject SwedenTemplate:WikiProject SwedenSweden articles
@
Mattias321: Can you explain your reasoning for removing the U15 side?
Kosack (
talk) 08:37, 12 July 2019 (UTC)reply
Hello
GiantSnowman and
Kosack! As I explained in my edit summary, it's up to each national football assocation to decide how to classify their youth caps. The
Swedish Football Association have a very clear classification system which is based on the UEFA tournaments (U17, U19 and U21). If we take
Isherwood as an example, his matches 2013–July 2015 (15 to 17 years old) counts as
Sweden U17 caps, and his matches August 2015–2017 (17 to 19 years old) counts as
Sweden U19 caps. There is and never has been a
Sweden U15 team.
Sweden U16 and
Sweden U18 are just the names for the U17 and U19 teams pre-August 2001. This is the standard for all
Swedish footballers and many other UEFA assocations use the same praxis. However, this might be confusing to you as the
FA use the U16–U19 classification system instead (not even they have U15). Bradford City, Daily Record and The Scotsman probably just translated Isherwood's caps into their own classification system to help their readers understand. That doesn't mean it's a good source compared to the
Swedish FA. After all, it's the Swedish FA, not Bradford City, Daily Record and The Scotsman, who classifie their own youth caps. For example, I wouldn't try to change
Neymar's youth caps into neither the Swedish nor the English system. The
Brazilian Football Confederation have their own system (U17, U20, U23) and that's the way it should be. // Mattias321(talk) 10:18, 12 July 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Mattias321: Thanks for replying, what's the age group before under-17 in Sweden? I believe most European nations generally follow the UEFA levels of 17, 19 and 21 but there are certainly times where this can differ, for example the
Wales under-20 side was created just to compete in a tournament. Also, England
do have an under-15 side.
Kosack (
talk) 11:42, 12 July 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Kosack: As I said, there is no age group before under-17 in this classification system. Isherwood's matches in 2013 and 2014 (as 15 and 16 years old) counts as U17 as well. Sorry I missed England U15, but they don't seem to have a article here on Wikipedia. Anyhow, I strongy think that the Swedish FA is the most reliable source in this case, and therefore that the article should be changed. // Mattias321(talk) 12:24, 12 July 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Mattias321: The permanent merging of age groups seems a bit strange as there are sources claiming that Sweden were fielding an under-18 side as recently as last year (
[1],
[2],
[3]). Although Sweden may primarily field the three main age groups, is there is a chance that a team was fielded at U15 level, U16 level, etc for whatever reason?
Kosack (
talk) 14:03, 12 July 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Kosack: As I said before, no. You may classify it as a U15 or U16 match (as the English FA does), but the Swedish FA lump them together as U17. Strange or not, this is how the Swedish FA does it. And this system with three categories in Sweden dates back to the 1950's with ungdomslandskamper (youth, U21), juniorlandskamper (junior, U19) and pojklandskamper (boy, U17). And, as I stated before, many other UEFA countries use this praxis as well. And yes, the English FA will of course say that England U18 played against Sweden U18 as it makes sense in their own system. That doesn't mean the Swedish FA use this system for their players. And why should Soccerway be regarded as a more reliable source than the
Swedish FA? After all, it's up to each national association how they classify their caps. All
Swedish footballers use the same praxis. Why should Thomas Isherwood be an exception? // Mattias321(talk) 20:33, 12 July 2019 (UTC)reply
Mattias' explanation does seem to be consistent with other articles as I can't see any mention of U18, etc in another Swedish player article during a quick scan.
Kosack (
talk) 16:24, 13 July 2019 (UTC)reply