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![]() | The contents of the Jim Crow (archetype) page were merged into Thomas D. Rice. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
The other changes were great, but references are important, especially when establishing facts. - Reboot
It is different from the one at Find-A-Grave. Lincher 12:43, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
That may not be an exact quote, but my point is Rice was white, not black, so I'd like to see the claim that he did something at all positive for black people through his very racist acts (not just in current terms, but as the article says but then backpeddles on, in the terms of the times)! I have no expertise nor extensive enough knowledge to correct or even positively identify problems here so I ask that those who know more attend to this. Thank you. -- Fitzhugh 04:54, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
I think it is intersting that I quickly learned by looking elsewhere that he WAS white, and that makes the earlier version of this article quite interesting: it seemed to go to great lengths to "paint" him in a positive light (pun not intended, but appropriate, if backward!) Why not just say the truth, as I added: his show WAS racist, he WAS white, he mocked blacks in a nasty manner, and as such deserves no "credit" for opening the doors to black actors. Perhaps historically his shows played a role in developing a desire to see black actors demean themselves instead of white actors mock them, but does that mean Rice deserves accolades for shattering racist barriers? Hell no. I don't claim to know all about this, but really, this relativism is as offensive as it is ignorant. -- Fitzhugh 05:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
I think the following excerpt attempts to address an important issue but lacks sufficient depth to be effective:
"As a white man playing highly derogatory imitations of black men, Rice's brand of entertainment was highly racist, though not necessarily thought of as such at the time."
This quotation smacks of an indignant historian who is in a hurry to label Thomas Smith as a racist, but has not taken the time to provide sufficient support for the assertions that his imitations were "highly derogatory" or that the entertainment was indeed "highly racist". Both uses of the word "highly" seem superfluous, especially without any qualification as to what differentiates "derogatory" from "highly derogatory" and "racist" from "highly racist". Furthermore it does not acknowledge the fact that the concept of racism as our contemporary society knows it was poorly developed at the time, and it was not merely that Thomas Rice's contemporaries did not "necessarily [think] of [his imitations]" as racist, as if they had failed to see the commonalities between features of his imitations and those included within some notion of "racism" that existed at the time.
I think that the article would benefit from a more explicit description of the characterizations Thomas Rice presented in his shows at least in enough depth for a reader to conclude that they were "derogatory" and I think that both instances of the word "highly" should be removed because they are both arbitrary. cmac 06:44, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
See the quote from the previous piece: Times, 8 November, 1836 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.151.200 ( talk) 03:09, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
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'was an American performer and playwright who appropriated African-American vernacular speech, song, and dance' This sounds like something off an SJW blog.-- Johnny 42 ( talk) 22:05, 2 September 2015 (UTC) True-- Bubblesorg ( talk) 16:41, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
I propose that Jim Crow (archetype) be merged into Thomas D. Rice. The small amount of content in the 'archetype' has already been merged and really only explores the character, not in any sense an 'archetype' I suggest a redirect Jim Crow (character) be added redirecting to here. Pincrete ( talk) 17:12, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 15:00, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
No I had never heard of Thomas Rice, but I came here to learn the origin of "Jim Crow" Radio Sharon ( talk) 07:17, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
To add to this article: the fact that Rice was known as an "Ethiopian delineator." 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 20:47, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
Surprising that this page does not discuss the Jim Crow laws.
National Geographic: Fifty years ago, the Voting Rights Act targeted the laws and practices of Jim Crow. Here’s where the name came from. Experts don’t really know how a racist performance in the North came to represent racist laws and policies in the South. But they can speculate.
Since the phrase originated in blackface minstrelsy, Lott says that it’s almost “perversely accurate … that it should come to be the name for official segregation and state-sponsored racism.”
“I think probably in the popular white mind,” he says, “it was just used because that’s just how they referred to black people.” https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/150806-voting-rights-act-anniversary-jim-crow-segregation-discrimination-racism-history Peter K Burian ( talk) 13:21, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
Basic information to add to this article: Rice's ethnic background. Was he white and of European heritage? If so, why fail to mention that anywhere in the current version of this article? 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 03:11, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
![]() | The contents of the Jim Crow (archetype) page were merged into Thomas D. Rice. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
The other changes were great, but references are important, especially when establishing facts. - Reboot
It is different from the one at Find-A-Grave. Lincher 12:43, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
That may not be an exact quote, but my point is Rice was white, not black, so I'd like to see the claim that he did something at all positive for black people through his very racist acts (not just in current terms, but as the article says but then backpeddles on, in the terms of the times)! I have no expertise nor extensive enough knowledge to correct or even positively identify problems here so I ask that those who know more attend to this. Thank you. -- Fitzhugh 04:54, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
I think it is intersting that I quickly learned by looking elsewhere that he WAS white, and that makes the earlier version of this article quite interesting: it seemed to go to great lengths to "paint" him in a positive light (pun not intended, but appropriate, if backward!) Why not just say the truth, as I added: his show WAS racist, he WAS white, he mocked blacks in a nasty manner, and as such deserves no "credit" for opening the doors to black actors. Perhaps historically his shows played a role in developing a desire to see black actors demean themselves instead of white actors mock them, but does that mean Rice deserves accolades for shattering racist barriers? Hell no. I don't claim to know all about this, but really, this relativism is as offensive as it is ignorant. -- Fitzhugh 05:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
I think the following excerpt attempts to address an important issue but lacks sufficient depth to be effective:
"As a white man playing highly derogatory imitations of black men, Rice's brand of entertainment was highly racist, though not necessarily thought of as such at the time."
This quotation smacks of an indignant historian who is in a hurry to label Thomas Smith as a racist, but has not taken the time to provide sufficient support for the assertions that his imitations were "highly derogatory" or that the entertainment was indeed "highly racist". Both uses of the word "highly" seem superfluous, especially without any qualification as to what differentiates "derogatory" from "highly derogatory" and "racist" from "highly racist". Furthermore it does not acknowledge the fact that the concept of racism as our contemporary society knows it was poorly developed at the time, and it was not merely that Thomas Rice's contemporaries did not "necessarily [think] of [his imitations]" as racist, as if they had failed to see the commonalities between features of his imitations and those included within some notion of "racism" that existed at the time.
I think that the article would benefit from a more explicit description of the characterizations Thomas Rice presented in his shows at least in enough depth for a reader to conclude that they were "derogatory" and I think that both instances of the word "highly" should be removed because they are both arbitrary. cmac 06:44, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
See the quote from the previous piece: Times, 8 November, 1836 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.151.200 ( talk) 03:09, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Thomas D. Rice. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:44, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
'was an American performer and playwright who appropriated African-American vernacular speech, song, and dance' This sounds like something off an SJW blog.-- Johnny 42 ( talk) 22:05, 2 September 2015 (UTC) True-- Bubblesorg ( talk) 16:41, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
I propose that Jim Crow (archetype) be merged into Thomas D. Rice. The small amount of content in the 'archetype' has already been merged and really only explores the character, not in any sense an 'archetype' I suggest a redirect Jim Crow (character) be added redirecting to here. Pincrete ( talk) 17:12, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Thomas D. Rice. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 15:00, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
No I had never heard of Thomas Rice, but I came here to learn the origin of "Jim Crow" Radio Sharon ( talk) 07:17, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
To add to this article: the fact that Rice was known as an "Ethiopian delineator." 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 20:47, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
Surprising that this page does not discuss the Jim Crow laws.
National Geographic: Fifty years ago, the Voting Rights Act targeted the laws and practices of Jim Crow. Here’s where the name came from. Experts don’t really know how a racist performance in the North came to represent racist laws and policies in the South. But they can speculate.
Since the phrase originated in blackface minstrelsy, Lott says that it’s almost “perversely accurate … that it should come to be the name for official segregation and state-sponsored racism.”
“I think probably in the popular white mind,” he says, “it was just used because that’s just how they referred to black people.” https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/150806-voting-rights-act-anniversary-jim-crow-segregation-discrimination-racism-history Peter K Burian ( talk) 13:21, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
Basic information to add to this article: Rice's ethnic background. Was he white and of European heritage? If so, why fail to mention that anywhere in the current version of this article? 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 03:11, 1 November 2022 (UTC)