This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poetry, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
poetry on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoetryWikipedia:WikiProject PoetryTemplate:WikiProject PoetryPoetry articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by
Cwmhiraeth (
talk) 06:40, 28 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Overall: Have written a few five-line poems myself. Okay, they were limericks, but still...
Hawkeye7(discuss) 21:05, 14 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Hi, I came by to promote this, but I wonder how many readers know who Walt Whitman was or care about a 4-line poem. But if you were to mention Abraham Lincoln, it would have more hook interest IMO.
Yoninah: that’s much better for me- fwiw I think Whitman’s very well known, but the hook is objectively better with Lincoln in it. Thanks for coming up with this. Best,
Eddie891TalkWork 19:43, 17 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks. We need a reviewer for ALT1. Pinging original reviewer
Hawkeye7.
Yoninah (
talk) 19:44, 17 October 2020 (UTC)reply
I think Walt Whitman is well known; the reader should have encountered him in high school English. Sourced to fn 3. Struck the original hook to avoid confusion. Good to go with ALT1.
Hawkeye7(discuss) 20:18, 17 October 2020 (UTC)reply
""This Dust Was Once the Man" is an elegy poem by Walt Whitman in 1871" - Missing a word?
Written
" "This Dust Was Once the Man" was included in Book XXII of Whitman's Leaves of Grass" - Yeah, it's cited in the lead, but Book XXII isn't mentioned in the body, just Leaves of Grass. To me, it seems better from a MOS/style standpoint to add the Book XXII detail to where the publishing in Leaves of Grass is mentioned in the body, and then remove the lead citation per
WP:LEADCITE.
Just removed it, the specific cluster is more useul
"Whitman first became interested in Abraham Lincoln in the beginning of the American Civil War" - Not sure that "in the beginning of the American Civil War" is the best phrasing here
"Whitman first became interested in Abraham Lincoln in the beginning of the American Civil War. He felt that Lincoln could be a great leader as early as 1860, and grew to admire him" - It's a bit nitpicky, but 1860 is before the beginning of the Civil War proper, so these don't quite fit together well. Maybe use a link like
Secession crisis of 1860-61 instead of American Civil War, or mention the election, or something as an alternative
removed the sentence and rephrased the following one
The long citation in the sources for Eiselein gives p. 396 as the applicable one, while p. 395 is cited in the references. Which page is the correct one?
Both, 395 is the page cited in the body.
Not relevant to the GA criteria, but I'm having trouble figuring out why this article is tagged for the Classical Music WikiProject.
Prior version mentioned a non-notable classical music adaptation, de-tagged.
That's it from me, I believe. Short, but a quality article.
Hog FarmBacon 19:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks,
Hog Farm, the above addressed. w.r.t. short, Agreed, but I was suprised at being able to write a 1000 word article on a 32 word poem :P
Eddie891TalkWork 19:41, 4 November 2020 (UTC)reply
The foulest crime in any land or age
This seems more likely a reference to slavery itself - a crime, an institution found in many lands and many ages - against which both Whitman and Lincoln set themselves.
166.181.254.115 (
talk) 07:51, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Obviously!!! I was surprised at how the article misses the mark on that one. In fact I came to the talk page to comment on it too, precisely. Apparently nowadays most people can't understand but the literal.
RosameliaMartinezTorres (
talk) 14:24, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply
There isn't really scholarly analysis establishing that connection. Feel free to present it, if I have missed it.
Eddie891TalkWork 14:29, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply
If you actually read the article, Vendler does support this interpretation, but far more scholars consider it more likely he was talking about secession or Lincoln.
Eddie891TalkWork 14:32, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply
I also think whitman was much more concerned by secession and the breaking up of the union than slavery, to be completely honest.
Eddie891TalkWork 14:33, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Furthermore, it's absurd to say that Lincoln saved the Union from.... himself being assassinated? I guess everyone is tiptoeing around it, but although Lincoln was a great president, he was certainly assassinated, hence the elegy in the first place
2601:641:400:B2A:9496:C5FB:DBDD:E868 (
talk) 18:46, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Exactly my thought. Under his hand he saved the Union from his own assassination, makes absolutely no sense. None! I would be embarrassed to call myself a scholar after suggesting such an interpretation. It's frankly surprising that these other gentlemen could keep their demeanor around such nonsense. Furthermore, this to me is obviously a reference to slavery. Obviously! I mean, would Whitman have gotten so worked up about Brexit? Not everyone at the time thought secession was a crime. Even if it was a foul crime, good luck convincing anyone that it's "the foulest crime in history known in any land or age". Seriously! So yeah, I understand there can be differences of opinion, but to not so much as consider slavery is practically, for all intents and purposes, racist. Yet as we all know, there wasn't a single racist bone among the scholars of the day, right?
DAVilla (
talk) 23:32, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poetry, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
poetry on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoetryWikipedia:WikiProject PoetryTemplate:WikiProject PoetryPoetry articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by
Cwmhiraeth (
talk) 06:40, 28 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Overall: Have written a few five-line poems myself. Okay, they were limericks, but still...
Hawkeye7(discuss) 21:05, 14 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Hi, I came by to promote this, but I wonder how many readers know who Walt Whitman was or care about a 4-line poem. But if you were to mention Abraham Lincoln, it would have more hook interest IMO.
Yoninah: that’s much better for me- fwiw I think Whitman’s very well known, but the hook is objectively better with Lincoln in it. Thanks for coming up with this. Best,
Eddie891TalkWork 19:43, 17 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks. We need a reviewer for ALT1. Pinging original reviewer
Hawkeye7.
Yoninah (
talk) 19:44, 17 October 2020 (UTC)reply
I think Walt Whitman is well known; the reader should have encountered him in high school English. Sourced to fn 3. Struck the original hook to avoid confusion. Good to go with ALT1.
Hawkeye7(discuss) 20:18, 17 October 2020 (UTC)reply
""This Dust Was Once the Man" is an elegy poem by Walt Whitman in 1871" - Missing a word?
Written
" "This Dust Was Once the Man" was included in Book XXII of Whitman's Leaves of Grass" - Yeah, it's cited in the lead, but Book XXII isn't mentioned in the body, just Leaves of Grass. To me, it seems better from a MOS/style standpoint to add the Book XXII detail to where the publishing in Leaves of Grass is mentioned in the body, and then remove the lead citation per
WP:LEADCITE.
Just removed it, the specific cluster is more useul
"Whitman first became interested in Abraham Lincoln in the beginning of the American Civil War" - Not sure that "in the beginning of the American Civil War" is the best phrasing here
"Whitman first became interested in Abraham Lincoln in the beginning of the American Civil War. He felt that Lincoln could be a great leader as early as 1860, and grew to admire him" - It's a bit nitpicky, but 1860 is before the beginning of the Civil War proper, so these don't quite fit together well. Maybe use a link like
Secession crisis of 1860-61 instead of American Civil War, or mention the election, or something as an alternative
removed the sentence and rephrased the following one
The long citation in the sources for Eiselein gives p. 396 as the applicable one, while p. 395 is cited in the references. Which page is the correct one?
Both, 395 is the page cited in the body.
Not relevant to the GA criteria, but I'm having trouble figuring out why this article is tagged for the Classical Music WikiProject.
Prior version mentioned a non-notable classical music adaptation, de-tagged.
That's it from me, I believe. Short, but a quality article.
Hog FarmBacon 19:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks,
Hog Farm, the above addressed. w.r.t. short, Agreed, but I was suprised at being able to write a 1000 word article on a 32 word poem :P
Eddie891TalkWork 19:41, 4 November 2020 (UTC)reply
The foulest crime in any land or age
This seems more likely a reference to slavery itself - a crime, an institution found in many lands and many ages - against which both Whitman and Lincoln set themselves.
166.181.254.115 (
talk) 07:51, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Obviously!!! I was surprised at how the article misses the mark on that one. In fact I came to the talk page to comment on it too, precisely. Apparently nowadays most people can't understand but the literal.
RosameliaMartinezTorres (
talk) 14:24, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply
There isn't really scholarly analysis establishing that connection. Feel free to present it, if I have missed it.
Eddie891TalkWork 14:29, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply
If you actually read the article, Vendler does support this interpretation, but far more scholars consider it more likely he was talking about secession or Lincoln.
Eddie891TalkWork 14:32, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply
I also think whitman was much more concerned by secession and the breaking up of the union than slavery, to be completely honest.
Eddie891TalkWork 14:33, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Furthermore, it's absurd to say that Lincoln saved the Union from.... himself being assassinated? I guess everyone is tiptoeing around it, but although Lincoln was a great president, he was certainly assassinated, hence the elegy in the first place
2601:641:400:B2A:9496:C5FB:DBDD:E868 (
talk) 18:46, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Exactly my thought. Under his hand he saved the Union from his own assassination, makes absolutely no sense. None! I would be embarrassed to call myself a scholar after suggesting such an interpretation. It's frankly surprising that these other gentlemen could keep their demeanor around such nonsense. Furthermore, this to me is obviously a reference to slavery. Obviously! I mean, would Whitman have gotten so worked up about Brexit? Not everyone at the time thought secession was a crime. Even if it was a foul crime, good luck convincing anyone that it's "the foulest crime in history known in any land or age". Seriously! So yeah, I understand there can be differences of opinion, but to not so much as consider slavery is practically, for all intents and purposes, racist. Yet as we all know, there wasn't a single racist bone among the scholars of the day, right?
DAVilla (
talk) 23:32, 22 December 2021 (UTC)reply