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Every place will have many nicknames. Some widely recognized, some not. To find a place in an encyclopedia, it must be widely known and used. "Gateway of Monsoon" is not one of them.
Yes, it was used in one book by an author with no special status. And there is no evidence of it being used anywhere else. Unless one can bring in evidence of wide recognition, the term can not be added. Do not put it back.
The editor mentioned "Evergreen City". that is already discussed on these pages. Do a google search and you can see widespread use. There is no comparison.
117.196.130.163 ( talk) 01:36, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
I read the book "Chasing the Monsoon" By Alexander Frater, 1992 edition, and the name "Gateway of Monsoon DOES NOT appear in the book.
Being unreferenced, the caption will be deleted. If you want it reinstated, please add reference, including chapter/page number, so that it could be verified.
117.196.144.37 ( talk) 15:46, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
The editor who is adamant to insert the title, seems to be totally unaware of how Wikipedia works. Please see Wikipedia:CITE to learn how to cite sources.
The source quoted by him does not have the phrase. I have a copy of the said book. So, either a scan of the page, or transcript of the actual paragraph need to be provided for verification. Burden of proof lies with the editor here.
And the issue of whether the information RELEVANT here comes after that. As mentioned earlier, just ONE author calling the city something, on ONE book doesn't qualify it to be a title of the city!!
I am sorry to mention that the editor ignored all the principles, including using civil language.
The title WILL NOT be allowed to stay.
117.196.138.149 ( talk) 00:58, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
The twinning is still on.. It is said that since there is no support from the LDF, the twinning is likely to be banned. Please show more references, if you still want to remove. -- Samaleks ( talk) 16:11, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Hi Aarem OR any other sensible Editor(s),
Just checking if KL 21 (Nedumangad) and KL 22 (Kazhakuttom) come under TRV City (Corp) limits? I am pretty sure Nedumangad does not come under Corp, but maybe a bit of Kazhakuttom? Please clarify, thanks - MountainWhiskey - talk 01:41, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
I have updated the literacy date(as of 2001) from jnnurm report(page 2) based on census data. Cheers, -- Aarem (Talk) 03:59, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
The population of Thiruvananthapuram city as per 2011 census is 835228(with an annual growth rate of 3.58 from 744983 as of 2001). This census figure is calculated based on the Muncipal corporation area of 141.74 km2. Now the area of the corporation is 214.86 km2, with a population of 957,710. Putting this figures in the infobox will affect the literacy rate and other population related parameters such as density. We should maintain consistency in the figures, and the information should be accurate. Cheers, -- Aarem (Talk) 04:27, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
You are welcome to do that. The question was about reference, and the corporation website is a valid reference. The screenshot was provided because editor Aarem's system could not render (because of configuration of the browser) the malayalam text. Anyone with a properly configured browser would be able to read the web site.
DileepKS( talk) 05:38, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
After a lot of time spent on researching, I could not verify the claim of Mahatama Gandhi calling the city "Evergreen city of India". ALL the web pages obtained via Google search are circular references taken from this article. There is no mention of it in the other encyclopedia articles, or in any Govt of Kerala documents. Editor Aarem had informed me that there was an article in a newspaper some years ago, but no credible reference resulted from that.
We need a credible reference that is not circularly sourced. Till then, the tag shall stand.
DileepKS( talk) 09:20, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
"Most of the Google results" does not means "All Google results". Please check the reference cited in the article. It is also possible that Wikipidea has copied the sentence from some reference. Here are some references for you which is not a copy of wiki: Asianet, Destination360, and many more. It is easy to wake up some from sleep, but difficult to wake up some one pretending asleep. Thank you, -- Samaleks ( talk) 00:58, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Can you please explain on what basis you are telling Asianet and Destination360 is not a valid source? How you know that those websites took information from wiki?
Asianet is the largest news channel in Kerala. Please do not argue for the sake of arguing. I request you to be logical here. If you still have a problem please go for a 3O here. --
Induzcreed (
talk) 11:20, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi
Amazer007, May I know what is your real query? Is it about the validity of using reference from Asianet? Please go through
what counts as reliable source. The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a
reliable source, not whether editors think it is true. (However, this part is still under hot
discussion in wikipedia community)
Asianet is a published reliable source which can be used to cite articles here. (Further, a simple
google search is retrieving thousands of pages on the tag)
If you are still
skeptical, please read through all the links I provided above to get a clarity.. Hope, this discussion will not be dragged never-ending. Cheers, --
Aarem
(Talk) 11:33, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
New tourist statistics published by Government of Kerala shows Trivandrum no more the most visited place. So it should be removed from the article. But user:Salih continously revert it and restore the false information. See the reference - http://www.keralatourism.org/destination-wise-foreign-2010.pdf -- Bijuts ( talk) 14:42, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
If so, lots of articles to rewrite. Wiki is not the place for that. Wiki always allow to change the article whenever informations changes accordingly. So no need to mention the past history. If Kovalam again will come into most visited place in coming years, surely we can reinstate that information. -- Bijuts ( talk) 05:01, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
"With nearly 10,00,000(one million) inhabitants per the 2011 census, it is the Fifth largest, and most populous city in Kerala; the wider urban agglomeration has a population of more than 1 million." The comma needs to be adjusted but the article is locked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davensuze ( talk • contribs) 18:57, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
Done - MountainWhiskey - talk 06:53, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
Government of India vide Notification No. S.O.542(E) dated 5th March 2010 has proposed to rename all National Highways. The revised Names are given in http://keralapwd.gov.in/getPage.php?page=NH%20in%20Kerala&pageId=301 . Old data is given at the top table,revised list is given at the bottom. Could anyone please check and verify it and take appropriate action. KAS( talk) 18:25, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. -- BDD ( talk) 19:18, 5 December 2012 (UTC) ( non-admin closure)
Thiruvananthapuram → Trivandrum – Per WP:COMMONNAME. Thiruvananthapuram isn't listed in many English dictionaries or other sources that do not include native names, and when it is listed, no English pronunciation is provided. Ask yourself: How is Thiruvananthapuram to be pronounced in English? If you can't answer that with the references that an ordinary reader is likely to have access to, then the article does not belong under that name. How would an audio version of this article be created, for example? Trivandrum, on the other hand, is well established in English, and the English pronunciation is readily available.
Dict.com, for example, defines Thiruvananthapuram as "the local official name of Trivandrum", while it defines Trivandrum as "a city in and the capital of Kerala state, in S India: Vishnu pilgrimage center. 409,761." For Trivandrum it provides an English pronunciation ([trih-van-druhm], /trɪˈvændrəm/); for Thiruvananthapuram it only provides the Malayalam (ˌθɪruːvəˈnæntæˌpuːrɑːm, no English pronunciation respelling). MW lists Trivandrum but not Thiruvananthapuram. Etc. Even local news publications in Kerala [1] and Trivandrum [2] use that name as the sole designation of the city. — kwami ( talk) 04:28, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
(looks like that's a support)
KL-16 (Attingal), KL-19 (Parassala), KL-20 (Neyyattinkara) and KL-21 (Nedumangad) are not situated within the city corporation. However, these are under the metropolitan area and is included in Thiruvananthapuram metropolitan area page.
Thank you :) BINOY Talk 08:09, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
This article is about Thiruvananthapuram City. Still it contains many images and descriptions of Technopark which is actually not inside Thiruvananthapuram city limits. Technopark is in Kazhakuttam which is a separate village panchayat as well as a block panchayat. Therefore the Technopark images are going to be soon removed from this article. - Karyasthan Raman Nair ( talk) 18:28, 10 April 2012 (UTC) . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.99.158.108 ( talk) 09:17, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Kazhakuttam is under Trivandrum Corporation. Cheers... BINOY Talk 17:01, 2 September 2012 (UTC) The comments in this matter are mosly raised by anti trivandrum lobby and should be discarded. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.249.2.114 ( talk) 08:36, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
Kazhakuttam is a ward under Thiruvananthapuram Corporation. The reference being the Thiruvananthapuram Corporation Official website and is referenced in the Kazhakuttam Page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justpp ( talk • contribs) 09:17, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
The Metropolitan Area Template lists French under the list of Spoken Languages. Apart from the fact that the city has an Alliance Francaise centre and that French is taught in certain colleges, there is no reason to list French as a spoken language of the city. It would be misleading to international tourists desirous of visiting the city.
Justpp (
talk) 09:39, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Monsieur, je comprends le français élémentaires. La langue française a beaucoup d'étudiants ici. Et, ce n'est pas une exagération. Pas grand-expertise, mais, connaissances de base est ici parmi les étudiants d'élite.
Just like Pondicherry, the well educated part of the native young population understands some basic French. Many schools/colleges offer French as a second language, apart from the Alliance française.
Among the Catholic clergy and laymen, many are French-educated. Some even in Université de Grenoble, France. Many people work in Europe, French-speaking parts of Africa, Canada, USA etc. and along with Italian and Latin, French is also taught and useful for higher studies.
Many healthcare professionals like specialised doctors study French since France is a leader in this field.
Fine arts students study French due to professional reasons. The fine arts college is in Trivandrum.
Film making enthusiasts and fraternity of technicians also study French since it's useful.
Fashion designers are here to study French. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sathyasaagar1 ( talk • contribs) 11:43, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
The Alliance française here has a good library and French book readers as well.
And the TV5 Monde channel is also available in Trivandrum.
The interesting part of the issue is: most French speakers migrate to other parts of India or abroad. However, from a linguist's point of view, the nasal phonetical characterestics of French language make it easy for the natives here as the Malayalam spoken here is similar to French in this way.
Note: English is also taught through out India, but, less than 5 percent of Indian population can actually converse in English, that too, with a heavy Indian-accent. Still English is considered as a spoken language and even the autorikshaw drivers in India grasp some words!!!!
Here is the point. French is basically familiar, recognized and understood among the good students.(Russian is also studied, but a good library is yet to come and number of faculty is limited, German is a recent introduction but still in infancy. So, French achieved it through out the history.
And, former Travancore Kingdom's capital was in Trivandrum, and hence, as an international diplomatic language, French gained popularity even those days, it's understood!)
So, why not French???? Sure, many students in Trivandrum achieved it. Especially when pronouncing French correctly(The best in India). French is popular here and comes next to English, Hindi and Tamil due to the easy pronunciation-factor. But, outside Trivandrum district, for students who don't have a spoken-phonetic base for nasal words from a young age, French remains difficult to pronounce.
Exception in Kerala: Mahé near Kannur where a French-medium school still exists. French is basically familiar among Trivandrum residents of Malabar-origin also.
About the international tourists coming to India, they mostly expect English everywhere in India and travel to multiple destinations in India. Some of them even try to speak the local languages. If they choose to stay here for some months, learning Kathakali, Kalarippayattu etc, they learn basic Malayalam!!! The Kerala university's department of linguistics in Trivandrum even conducts a basic Malayalam course for foreign nationals and it's in Trivandrum, Karyavattom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sathyasaagar1 ( talk • contribs) 10:52, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
The city has a good number of quality healthcare providers of international standards. It's a major quality healthcare hub in India. South Kerala and Southern Tamil Nadu depend on the city's facilities. Even foreign nationals often choose Trivandrum for low cost healthcare related needed including cardiac surgeries. Sree Chithra, SUT, KIMS, NIMS, and many other hospitals are based here. Trivandrum is the place ,where, a good number of the best doctors of India and abroad of today, having their origin or student days spent. Then, about Ayurveda. Trivandrum is famous for reviving the traditional Ayurveda through it's govt. run Ayurveda College. An example rest of Kerala and India followed. Ayurveda's application in the sports medicine supported by the modern healthcare sector surely helped to shape the place Kerala have achieved in the field of sports in India. This helped the teams to maintain a good health without injuries. Trivandrum mixed what's traditional and modern in this sphere.Health and fitness is part of Trivandrum's culture. Eg: largest number of people in India go for a pollution free morning walk, jogging or bicycle-roam here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sathyasaagar1 ( talk • contribs) 10:38, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
Kazhakkoottam and Sreekaryam area is not part of Thiruvananthapuram city. It was just in 2010 These areas where annexed to Thiruvananthapuram corporation (just for political mileage) and they are coming out of it within 5 years. Now they are all set to become a seperate municipality. This means Technopark, Kinfra, Karyavattom Campus, etc are outside city limits and cannot be included in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.66.153.133 ( talk) 03:54, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Article Thiruvananthapuram metropolitan area should be merged to here. Trivandrum is not yet a metropolital area eventhough it is aspiring to be. Apqt ( talk) 09:26, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
“Possibilities of the city to attain metro status will diminish if Kazhakkoottam and nearby areas are taken away from the Corporation’s ambit, for it includes places such as the IT Hub Technopark. Thereby it will affect the Corporation from availing of Central Government grants for developmental activities,” said an expert.
There shall be some political factors and an hidden intention to attract the Trivandrumites and making it as an capital, can it be? Ankush 89 ( talk) 08:45, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Trivandrum UA has a population of only 1.6 and is not continuous with any other adjacent UA. Most of the areas even under corporation are rural in structure.Trissur,kochi,kozhikode are larger UA's. 106.66.157.43 ( talk) 19:04, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Please upload a new main display picture for trivandrum
Shafikochi123 ( talk) 09:42, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
Please somebody change the current display picture because its very bad and somebody intentionally did this to disrespect trivandrum which includes napier museum, infosys , jalakanyaka railway station and etc. Please add TECHNOPARK Phase 3 , Ust global campus trivandrum, Pattom skyline etc. Shafikochi123 ( talk) 09:50, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
Remove museum, railwaystation, jalakanyaka and add TECHNOPARK p3 , ust global, and pattom skyline Shafikochi123 ( talk) 09:52, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
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There seems to be some kind of information overload in this article. should all wikipedia articles need be this exhaustive ( 42.109.164.54 ( talk) 13:42, 25 January 2018 (UTC))
There are lot of verifications and citations. it is time to delete the tag ( 42.109.164.54 ( talk) 13:43, 25 January 2018 (UTC))
@ AG47 - The year given in the stats is 2011 & according to the Govt Census of 2011, the population of Trivandrum is 752,490. So if you're keeping the stats from Tvm Corporation website, then you need to change the year accordingly. You can't keep the year listed as 2011, since it contradicts the official figures from the Govt Census. Shady59 ( talk) 17:33, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
@ AG47 Moreover, Census in India is done every 10 years. The last census was taken in 2011 & next census will be taken only in 2021. Rest all figures in the websites of private bodies are estimated mid census reports. So the website of Tvm corporation is not a better source than the Official Govt Census report. Shady59 ( talk) 17:38, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
I don't understand the problem here. First you said "the city was expanded to 214 sq.km after the 2011 census". Now you are saying "at the time of census(population) taken, Trivandrum corporation was already expanded". Lets analyse your problems one by one.
1. "at the time of census(population) taken, Trivandrum corporation was already expanded"
2. "So unless you can show a credible source that says population enumeration done in February 2011 was done on the basis of corporation limits before 2010, it doesn't account for the 2011 year. The official govt census will supersede the corporation stats."
Text in Edit Summary: "It's common sense. The main city area of 214 sq.km with 957,730 population, has a pop density of only 4,500/sq.km. If metropolitan area of 311 sq.km has a population of 1.68 million, then that means the rest of the 97 sq.km outside the city has a pop of 729,676 with a density of 7,522. Which means, the main city has a density of only 4,500/sq.km, whereas area outside the city has a density of 7,500/sq.km. That's entirely implausible. So the metropolitan area is much greater than just 311 sq.km."
Ha ha. Expert? No. no.. I am not an expert. You are the one who started editing waaaaaay before me so you are the expert here as you clearly know what's the polices in wiki and what's not. You said it yourself above! May be that's why you use wiki shortcuts on edit summaries of every edit you make. You think that will make someone an expert? ;)
Posting wiki shortcuts will not make anyone an expert. The three shortcuts I linked are the ones you are trying to violate. I only posted those on the last response. I don't know why such an experienced expert editor who started editing Wikipedia waaay before me find these simple policies hard to understand. Since you are repeating the same thing again, lets analyse your problems one by one.
1. Do the reference by demographia satisfies WP:V and WP:OR?
2. Do you have a source that is more reliable than demographia.com?
1: "It's not about citation, it's basic common sense and logic."
2: "Trivandrum Metropolitan Area consists of Trivandrum corporation, 4 municipalities and 25 census towns."
3: "It's clear from the comprehensive mobility plan draft for Trivandrum prepared by Kerala Rapid Transit Corporation Ltd for the Smart Cities Mission that the total area of Thiruvananthapuram Municipal Corporation, Neyyattinkara Municipality and eight adjoining panchayats viz. Mangalapuram, Andoorkonam, Vilappil, Vilavoorkal, Pallichal, Kalliyoor, Venganoor, Balaramapuram. The population of the study area is 373.96 sq km. So how come the so-called Trivandrum metropolitan area which includes 3 additional municipalities and 18 additional panchayats have a lesser area of 311 sq.km?"
There is no need to point out this as you are doing Original Research here. I said the mistakes in your points because you are just repeating this again and again. Have a nice day. AG47 Talk 15:12, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
@ User:Shady59 Hello, since you were obsessed with the 2011 census figures, I just came across a good reference which shows the exact metro area according to the 2011 census. The District Census Handbook of Thiruvananthapuram district. You compared the census towns with the pachayath areas above. That's the first mistake. You think census towns are panchayaths. Census towns are not panchayaths. In the 24 census towns of Trivandrum district, you can see towns like Alamcode. There is no panchayath called Alamcode in Trivandrum district. It's a census town. So if you want to see the UA area, you need to find the area of these census towns. Not the panchayath area. And where do we find that? Of course from the census website!
The document above have all the 2011 census details of Trivandrum district including the area of census towns. So all you need to do is just add the census towns and urban areas like corporation area under Trivandrum UA together. Those census towns and municipalities which come under Trivandrum UA can be found [www.census2011.co.in/census/metropolitan/421-thiruvananthapuram.html here]. You can match the population of each census town with the handbook data for better precision. The outgrowth population is included in the corporation population in the handbook. I added it and the total area of Trivandrum UA is 542.57 sq.KM. There is also another easy way to find this. Doing this after adding all the data will also ensure that the data is correct. The Total area of Trivandrum district is 2,189 sq.KM. 577.46 sq.KM is the total urban area of the district. So subtracting the urban area which is not part of the Trivandrum UA from the total urban area of the district will give you the area of Trivandrum UA. Trivandrum district has 26 census towns and 4 municipalities. 24 census towns and 3 municipalities are under Trivandrum UA. So we need to find the 2 census tows and 1 municipality, which is not in the UA. They are Varkala Municipality and the census towns of Parassala and Parasuvaikkal. The Total area of these three are 34.89 sq.KM. So subtracting this from Total urban area is 542.57 sq.KM (577.46 - 34.89 = 542.57), which is exactly the same as the total added figure.
Since you talked about the reason why you added demographia as source in Kochi page and asked me to find sources, i also did the same with Kochi UA. The census town areas of Kochi UA can be found in the [www.censusindia.gov.in/2011census/dchb/3208_PART_B_ERNAKULAM.pdf District Census Handbook of Ernakulam district]. The census towns and municipalities which come under Kochi UA can be found [www.census2011.co.in/census/metropolitan/417-kochi.html here]. 45 census towns are in Kochi UA. And adding all these census towns, municipalities and the corporation areas together will get the total area of Kochi UA. And the area of Kochi UA is 843.84 sq.KM. Now we can also do the easy way, which also ensure the data is correct, we need to find the census towns in Ernakulam district which is not part of the Kochi UA. Ernakulam district has a total area of 3,063 sq.KM. 925.26 sq.KM is the urban area of the district. The remaining urban regions in Ernakulam district which are not part of Kochi UA is the Kothamangalam and Muvattupuzha municipalities and the census towns of Velloorkunnam and Eramalloor. All these are in the Kothamangalam UA. So Kochi UA area = Total urban area of Ernakulam district - Kothamangalam UA area. So, 925.26 - 81.42 = 843.84, which is exactly the same as the added figure.
So, that's the results. Area of Trivandrum UA is 542.57 sq.KM and the area of Kochi UA is 843.84 sq.KM. From the above discussion, i was very confused why are you trying to increase the area. Then i noticed that you were worried about the density figures. So lets calculate the density also. Trivandrum UA's population is 1,679,754 and Kochi UA's population is 2,119,724. So Trivandrum UA's density is 3,096 people per sq.KM and Kochi UA's density is 2,512 people per sq.KM. Now I understand why you were so much worried about the density figures.
So can I use these source as the reference? No i can't. Because the source is not a direct source. The source has the data. But you need to do all the calculations i did above to find the figure, which is original research. A source said one thing does't mean that the other source is completely wrong. Demographia uses another method to measure the area and it is given in the demographioa document. Also the metro density figures are not used in the infobox. Only the city density is used. Using the data from two very different sources that use different methods, to calculate density will be wrong. So it also doesn't matter.
Have a nice day AG47 Talk 17:17, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
I just can't believe all this discussion about this just went over your head! How is that even possible? comprehensive mobility plan do not talks about metro area. It even contains panchayaths which are NOT part of Trivandrum metro. It's useless here. I said that several times above. All these discussions and we are back to square one! And i am an "amateur"? Can you just stop this name calling? I don't care about who you are and how you are an"experienced senior huge editor". We are here to discuss the issue. So all these name calling is immature. So let's stop that.
1. Your statement: You don't have to take into account census towns at all.
2: Your statement: You took that reference to find out that there are 45 census towns in Kochi UA which totals to 843.84 sq.km? Dude, the whole of Greater Kochi Area itself is only 731 sq.km which you can find in many official govt articles & reports and Kochi UA is only a part of the Greater Kochi Area. And you found out that a part of that 731 sq.km totals to 843.84 sq.km? All your calculations are absolutely contradictory and illogical.
3: Your statement: And clearly this area os only a part of Trivandrum metropolitan area which you're stating as 311 sq.km which itself is a blunder.
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In India, the Census Commission defines the qualification for metropolitan city as, the cities having a population of more than 10 lakhs or one million and above and a Megacity as the cities having a population of more than 10 million and above. Yes, Trivandrum is the metro city of Kerala. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.68.75.160 ( talk) 15:24, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
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change from City to Metropolis as it is an million plus urban agglomeration of india. 157.42.252.105 ( talk) 08:27, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
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Every place will have many nicknames. Some widely recognized, some not. To find a place in an encyclopedia, it must be widely known and used. "Gateway of Monsoon" is not one of them.
Yes, it was used in one book by an author with no special status. And there is no evidence of it being used anywhere else. Unless one can bring in evidence of wide recognition, the term can not be added. Do not put it back.
The editor mentioned "Evergreen City". that is already discussed on these pages. Do a google search and you can see widespread use. There is no comparison.
117.196.130.163 ( talk) 01:36, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
I read the book "Chasing the Monsoon" By Alexander Frater, 1992 edition, and the name "Gateway of Monsoon DOES NOT appear in the book.
Being unreferenced, the caption will be deleted. If you want it reinstated, please add reference, including chapter/page number, so that it could be verified.
117.196.144.37 ( talk) 15:46, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
The editor who is adamant to insert the title, seems to be totally unaware of how Wikipedia works. Please see Wikipedia:CITE to learn how to cite sources.
The source quoted by him does not have the phrase. I have a copy of the said book. So, either a scan of the page, or transcript of the actual paragraph need to be provided for verification. Burden of proof lies with the editor here.
And the issue of whether the information RELEVANT here comes after that. As mentioned earlier, just ONE author calling the city something, on ONE book doesn't qualify it to be a title of the city!!
I am sorry to mention that the editor ignored all the principles, including using civil language.
The title WILL NOT be allowed to stay.
117.196.138.149 ( talk) 00:58, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
The twinning is still on.. It is said that since there is no support from the LDF, the twinning is likely to be banned. Please show more references, if you still want to remove. -- Samaleks ( talk) 16:11, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Hi Aarem OR any other sensible Editor(s),
Just checking if KL 21 (Nedumangad) and KL 22 (Kazhakuttom) come under TRV City (Corp) limits? I am pretty sure Nedumangad does not come under Corp, but maybe a bit of Kazhakuttom? Please clarify, thanks - MountainWhiskey - talk 01:41, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
I have updated the literacy date(as of 2001) from jnnurm report(page 2) based on census data. Cheers, -- Aarem (Talk) 03:59, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
The population of Thiruvananthapuram city as per 2011 census is 835228(with an annual growth rate of 3.58 from 744983 as of 2001). This census figure is calculated based on the Muncipal corporation area of 141.74 km2. Now the area of the corporation is 214.86 km2, with a population of 957,710. Putting this figures in the infobox will affect the literacy rate and other population related parameters such as density. We should maintain consistency in the figures, and the information should be accurate. Cheers, -- Aarem (Talk) 04:27, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
You are welcome to do that. The question was about reference, and the corporation website is a valid reference. The screenshot was provided because editor Aarem's system could not render (because of configuration of the browser) the malayalam text. Anyone with a properly configured browser would be able to read the web site.
DileepKS( talk) 05:38, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
After a lot of time spent on researching, I could not verify the claim of Mahatama Gandhi calling the city "Evergreen city of India". ALL the web pages obtained via Google search are circular references taken from this article. There is no mention of it in the other encyclopedia articles, or in any Govt of Kerala documents. Editor Aarem had informed me that there was an article in a newspaper some years ago, but no credible reference resulted from that.
We need a credible reference that is not circularly sourced. Till then, the tag shall stand.
DileepKS( talk) 09:20, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
"Most of the Google results" does not means "All Google results". Please check the reference cited in the article. It is also possible that Wikipidea has copied the sentence from some reference. Here are some references for you which is not a copy of wiki: Asianet, Destination360, and many more. It is easy to wake up some from sleep, but difficult to wake up some one pretending asleep. Thank you, -- Samaleks ( talk) 00:58, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Can you please explain on what basis you are telling Asianet and Destination360 is not a valid source? How you know that those websites took information from wiki?
Asianet is the largest news channel in Kerala. Please do not argue for the sake of arguing. I request you to be logical here. If you still have a problem please go for a 3O here. --
Induzcreed (
talk) 11:20, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi
Amazer007, May I know what is your real query? Is it about the validity of using reference from Asianet? Please go through
what counts as reliable source. The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a
reliable source, not whether editors think it is true. (However, this part is still under hot
discussion in wikipedia community)
Asianet is a published reliable source which can be used to cite articles here. (Further, a simple
google search is retrieving thousands of pages on the tag)
If you are still
skeptical, please read through all the links I provided above to get a clarity.. Hope, this discussion will not be dragged never-ending. Cheers, --
Aarem
(Talk) 11:33, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
New tourist statistics published by Government of Kerala shows Trivandrum no more the most visited place. So it should be removed from the article. But user:Salih continously revert it and restore the false information. See the reference - http://www.keralatourism.org/destination-wise-foreign-2010.pdf -- Bijuts ( talk) 14:42, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
If so, lots of articles to rewrite. Wiki is not the place for that. Wiki always allow to change the article whenever informations changes accordingly. So no need to mention the past history. If Kovalam again will come into most visited place in coming years, surely we can reinstate that information. -- Bijuts ( talk) 05:01, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
"With nearly 10,00,000(one million) inhabitants per the 2011 census, it is the Fifth largest, and most populous city in Kerala; the wider urban agglomeration has a population of more than 1 million." The comma needs to be adjusted but the article is locked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davensuze ( talk • contribs) 18:57, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
Done - MountainWhiskey - talk 06:53, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
Government of India vide Notification No. S.O.542(E) dated 5th March 2010 has proposed to rename all National Highways. The revised Names are given in http://keralapwd.gov.in/getPage.php?page=NH%20in%20Kerala&pageId=301 . Old data is given at the top table,revised list is given at the bottom. Could anyone please check and verify it and take appropriate action. KAS( talk) 18:25, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. -- BDD ( talk) 19:18, 5 December 2012 (UTC) ( non-admin closure)
Thiruvananthapuram → Trivandrum – Per WP:COMMONNAME. Thiruvananthapuram isn't listed in many English dictionaries or other sources that do not include native names, and when it is listed, no English pronunciation is provided. Ask yourself: How is Thiruvananthapuram to be pronounced in English? If you can't answer that with the references that an ordinary reader is likely to have access to, then the article does not belong under that name. How would an audio version of this article be created, for example? Trivandrum, on the other hand, is well established in English, and the English pronunciation is readily available.
Dict.com, for example, defines Thiruvananthapuram as "the local official name of Trivandrum", while it defines Trivandrum as "a city in and the capital of Kerala state, in S India: Vishnu pilgrimage center. 409,761." For Trivandrum it provides an English pronunciation ([trih-van-druhm], /trɪˈvændrəm/); for Thiruvananthapuram it only provides the Malayalam (ˌθɪruːvəˈnæntæˌpuːrɑːm, no English pronunciation respelling). MW lists Trivandrum but not Thiruvananthapuram. Etc. Even local news publications in Kerala [1] and Trivandrum [2] use that name as the sole designation of the city. — kwami ( talk) 04:28, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
(looks like that's a support)
KL-16 (Attingal), KL-19 (Parassala), KL-20 (Neyyattinkara) and KL-21 (Nedumangad) are not situated within the city corporation. However, these are under the metropolitan area and is included in Thiruvananthapuram metropolitan area page.
Thank you :) BINOY Talk 08:09, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
This article is about Thiruvananthapuram City. Still it contains many images and descriptions of Technopark which is actually not inside Thiruvananthapuram city limits. Technopark is in Kazhakuttam which is a separate village panchayat as well as a block panchayat. Therefore the Technopark images are going to be soon removed from this article. - Karyasthan Raman Nair ( talk) 18:28, 10 April 2012 (UTC) . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.99.158.108 ( talk) 09:17, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Kazhakuttam is under Trivandrum Corporation. Cheers... BINOY Talk 17:01, 2 September 2012 (UTC) The comments in this matter are mosly raised by anti trivandrum lobby and should be discarded. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.249.2.114 ( talk) 08:36, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
Kazhakuttam is a ward under Thiruvananthapuram Corporation. The reference being the Thiruvananthapuram Corporation Official website and is referenced in the Kazhakuttam Page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justpp ( talk • contribs) 09:17, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
The Metropolitan Area Template lists French under the list of Spoken Languages. Apart from the fact that the city has an Alliance Francaise centre and that French is taught in certain colleges, there is no reason to list French as a spoken language of the city. It would be misleading to international tourists desirous of visiting the city.
Justpp (
talk) 09:39, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Monsieur, je comprends le français élémentaires. La langue française a beaucoup d'étudiants ici. Et, ce n'est pas une exagération. Pas grand-expertise, mais, connaissances de base est ici parmi les étudiants d'élite.
Just like Pondicherry, the well educated part of the native young population understands some basic French. Many schools/colleges offer French as a second language, apart from the Alliance française.
Among the Catholic clergy and laymen, many are French-educated. Some even in Université de Grenoble, France. Many people work in Europe, French-speaking parts of Africa, Canada, USA etc. and along with Italian and Latin, French is also taught and useful for higher studies.
Many healthcare professionals like specialised doctors study French since France is a leader in this field.
Fine arts students study French due to professional reasons. The fine arts college is in Trivandrum.
Film making enthusiasts and fraternity of technicians also study French since it's useful.
Fashion designers are here to study French. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sathyasaagar1 ( talk • contribs) 11:43, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
The Alliance française here has a good library and French book readers as well.
And the TV5 Monde channel is also available in Trivandrum.
The interesting part of the issue is: most French speakers migrate to other parts of India or abroad. However, from a linguist's point of view, the nasal phonetical characterestics of French language make it easy for the natives here as the Malayalam spoken here is similar to French in this way.
Note: English is also taught through out India, but, less than 5 percent of Indian population can actually converse in English, that too, with a heavy Indian-accent. Still English is considered as a spoken language and even the autorikshaw drivers in India grasp some words!!!!
Here is the point. French is basically familiar, recognized and understood among the good students.(Russian is also studied, but a good library is yet to come and number of faculty is limited, German is a recent introduction but still in infancy. So, French achieved it through out the history.
And, former Travancore Kingdom's capital was in Trivandrum, and hence, as an international diplomatic language, French gained popularity even those days, it's understood!)
So, why not French???? Sure, many students in Trivandrum achieved it. Especially when pronouncing French correctly(The best in India). French is popular here and comes next to English, Hindi and Tamil due to the easy pronunciation-factor. But, outside Trivandrum district, for students who don't have a spoken-phonetic base for nasal words from a young age, French remains difficult to pronounce.
Exception in Kerala: Mahé near Kannur where a French-medium school still exists. French is basically familiar among Trivandrum residents of Malabar-origin also.
About the international tourists coming to India, they mostly expect English everywhere in India and travel to multiple destinations in India. Some of them even try to speak the local languages. If they choose to stay here for some months, learning Kathakali, Kalarippayattu etc, they learn basic Malayalam!!! The Kerala university's department of linguistics in Trivandrum even conducts a basic Malayalam course for foreign nationals and it's in Trivandrum, Karyavattom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sathyasaagar1 ( talk • contribs) 10:52, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
The city has a good number of quality healthcare providers of international standards. It's a major quality healthcare hub in India. South Kerala and Southern Tamil Nadu depend on the city's facilities. Even foreign nationals often choose Trivandrum for low cost healthcare related needed including cardiac surgeries. Sree Chithra, SUT, KIMS, NIMS, and many other hospitals are based here. Trivandrum is the place ,where, a good number of the best doctors of India and abroad of today, having their origin or student days spent. Then, about Ayurveda. Trivandrum is famous for reviving the traditional Ayurveda through it's govt. run Ayurveda College. An example rest of Kerala and India followed. Ayurveda's application in the sports medicine supported by the modern healthcare sector surely helped to shape the place Kerala have achieved in the field of sports in India. This helped the teams to maintain a good health without injuries. Trivandrum mixed what's traditional and modern in this sphere.Health and fitness is part of Trivandrum's culture. Eg: largest number of people in India go for a pollution free morning walk, jogging or bicycle-roam here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sathyasaagar1 ( talk • contribs) 10:38, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
Kazhakkoottam and Sreekaryam area is not part of Thiruvananthapuram city. It was just in 2010 These areas where annexed to Thiruvananthapuram corporation (just for political mileage) and they are coming out of it within 5 years. Now they are all set to become a seperate municipality. This means Technopark, Kinfra, Karyavattom Campus, etc are outside city limits and cannot be included in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.66.153.133 ( talk) 03:54, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Article Thiruvananthapuram metropolitan area should be merged to here. Trivandrum is not yet a metropolital area eventhough it is aspiring to be. Apqt ( talk) 09:26, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
“Possibilities of the city to attain metro status will diminish if Kazhakkoottam and nearby areas are taken away from the Corporation’s ambit, for it includes places such as the IT Hub Technopark. Thereby it will affect the Corporation from availing of Central Government grants for developmental activities,” said an expert.
There shall be some political factors and an hidden intention to attract the Trivandrumites and making it as an capital, can it be? Ankush 89 ( talk) 08:45, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Trivandrum UA has a population of only 1.6 and is not continuous with any other adjacent UA. Most of the areas even under corporation are rural in structure.Trissur,kochi,kozhikode are larger UA's. 106.66.157.43 ( talk) 19:04, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Please upload a new main display picture for trivandrum
Shafikochi123 ( talk) 09:42, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
Please somebody change the current display picture because its very bad and somebody intentionally did this to disrespect trivandrum which includes napier museum, infosys , jalakanyaka railway station and etc. Please add TECHNOPARK Phase 3 , Ust global campus trivandrum, Pattom skyline etc. Shafikochi123 ( talk) 09:50, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
Remove museum, railwaystation, jalakanyaka and add TECHNOPARK p3 , ust global, and pattom skyline Shafikochi123 ( talk) 09:52, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
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There seems to be some kind of information overload in this article. should all wikipedia articles need be this exhaustive ( 42.109.164.54 ( talk) 13:42, 25 January 2018 (UTC))
There are lot of verifications and citations. it is time to delete the tag ( 42.109.164.54 ( talk) 13:43, 25 January 2018 (UTC))
@ AG47 - The year given in the stats is 2011 & according to the Govt Census of 2011, the population of Trivandrum is 752,490. So if you're keeping the stats from Tvm Corporation website, then you need to change the year accordingly. You can't keep the year listed as 2011, since it contradicts the official figures from the Govt Census. Shady59 ( talk) 17:33, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
@ AG47 Moreover, Census in India is done every 10 years. The last census was taken in 2011 & next census will be taken only in 2021. Rest all figures in the websites of private bodies are estimated mid census reports. So the website of Tvm corporation is not a better source than the Official Govt Census report. Shady59 ( talk) 17:38, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
I don't understand the problem here. First you said "the city was expanded to 214 sq.km after the 2011 census". Now you are saying "at the time of census(population) taken, Trivandrum corporation was already expanded". Lets analyse your problems one by one.
1. "at the time of census(population) taken, Trivandrum corporation was already expanded"
2. "So unless you can show a credible source that says population enumeration done in February 2011 was done on the basis of corporation limits before 2010, it doesn't account for the 2011 year. The official govt census will supersede the corporation stats."
Text in Edit Summary: "It's common sense. The main city area of 214 sq.km with 957,730 population, has a pop density of only 4,500/sq.km. If metropolitan area of 311 sq.km has a population of 1.68 million, then that means the rest of the 97 sq.km outside the city has a pop of 729,676 with a density of 7,522. Which means, the main city has a density of only 4,500/sq.km, whereas area outside the city has a density of 7,500/sq.km. That's entirely implausible. So the metropolitan area is much greater than just 311 sq.km."
Ha ha. Expert? No. no.. I am not an expert. You are the one who started editing waaaaaay before me so you are the expert here as you clearly know what's the polices in wiki and what's not. You said it yourself above! May be that's why you use wiki shortcuts on edit summaries of every edit you make. You think that will make someone an expert? ;)
Posting wiki shortcuts will not make anyone an expert. The three shortcuts I linked are the ones you are trying to violate. I only posted those on the last response. I don't know why such an experienced expert editor who started editing Wikipedia waaay before me find these simple policies hard to understand. Since you are repeating the same thing again, lets analyse your problems one by one.
1. Do the reference by demographia satisfies WP:V and WP:OR?
2. Do you have a source that is more reliable than demographia.com?
1: "It's not about citation, it's basic common sense and logic."
2: "Trivandrum Metropolitan Area consists of Trivandrum corporation, 4 municipalities and 25 census towns."
3: "It's clear from the comprehensive mobility plan draft for Trivandrum prepared by Kerala Rapid Transit Corporation Ltd for the Smart Cities Mission that the total area of Thiruvananthapuram Municipal Corporation, Neyyattinkara Municipality and eight adjoining panchayats viz. Mangalapuram, Andoorkonam, Vilappil, Vilavoorkal, Pallichal, Kalliyoor, Venganoor, Balaramapuram. The population of the study area is 373.96 sq km. So how come the so-called Trivandrum metropolitan area which includes 3 additional municipalities and 18 additional panchayats have a lesser area of 311 sq.km?"
There is no need to point out this as you are doing Original Research here. I said the mistakes in your points because you are just repeating this again and again. Have a nice day. AG47 Talk 15:12, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
@ User:Shady59 Hello, since you were obsessed with the 2011 census figures, I just came across a good reference which shows the exact metro area according to the 2011 census. The District Census Handbook of Thiruvananthapuram district. You compared the census towns with the pachayath areas above. That's the first mistake. You think census towns are panchayaths. Census towns are not panchayaths. In the 24 census towns of Trivandrum district, you can see towns like Alamcode. There is no panchayath called Alamcode in Trivandrum district. It's a census town. So if you want to see the UA area, you need to find the area of these census towns. Not the panchayath area. And where do we find that? Of course from the census website!
The document above have all the 2011 census details of Trivandrum district including the area of census towns. So all you need to do is just add the census towns and urban areas like corporation area under Trivandrum UA together. Those census towns and municipalities which come under Trivandrum UA can be found [www.census2011.co.in/census/metropolitan/421-thiruvananthapuram.html here]. You can match the population of each census town with the handbook data for better precision. The outgrowth population is included in the corporation population in the handbook. I added it and the total area of Trivandrum UA is 542.57 sq.KM. There is also another easy way to find this. Doing this after adding all the data will also ensure that the data is correct. The Total area of Trivandrum district is 2,189 sq.KM. 577.46 sq.KM is the total urban area of the district. So subtracting the urban area which is not part of the Trivandrum UA from the total urban area of the district will give you the area of Trivandrum UA. Trivandrum district has 26 census towns and 4 municipalities. 24 census towns and 3 municipalities are under Trivandrum UA. So we need to find the 2 census tows and 1 municipality, which is not in the UA. They are Varkala Municipality and the census towns of Parassala and Parasuvaikkal. The Total area of these three are 34.89 sq.KM. So subtracting this from Total urban area is 542.57 sq.KM (577.46 - 34.89 = 542.57), which is exactly the same as the total added figure.
Since you talked about the reason why you added demographia as source in Kochi page and asked me to find sources, i also did the same with Kochi UA. The census town areas of Kochi UA can be found in the [www.censusindia.gov.in/2011census/dchb/3208_PART_B_ERNAKULAM.pdf District Census Handbook of Ernakulam district]. The census towns and municipalities which come under Kochi UA can be found [www.census2011.co.in/census/metropolitan/417-kochi.html here]. 45 census towns are in Kochi UA. And adding all these census towns, municipalities and the corporation areas together will get the total area of Kochi UA. And the area of Kochi UA is 843.84 sq.KM. Now we can also do the easy way, which also ensure the data is correct, we need to find the census towns in Ernakulam district which is not part of the Kochi UA. Ernakulam district has a total area of 3,063 sq.KM. 925.26 sq.KM is the urban area of the district. The remaining urban regions in Ernakulam district which are not part of Kochi UA is the Kothamangalam and Muvattupuzha municipalities and the census towns of Velloorkunnam and Eramalloor. All these are in the Kothamangalam UA. So Kochi UA area = Total urban area of Ernakulam district - Kothamangalam UA area. So, 925.26 - 81.42 = 843.84, which is exactly the same as the added figure.
So, that's the results. Area of Trivandrum UA is 542.57 sq.KM and the area of Kochi UA is 843.84 sq.KM. From the above discussion, i was very confused why are you trying to increase the area. Then i noticed that you were worried about the density figures. So lets calculate the density also. Trivandrum UA's population is 1,679,754 and Kochi UA's population is 2,119,724. So Trivandrum UA's density is 3,096 people per sq.KM and Kochi UA's density is 2,512 people per sq.KM. Now I understand why you were so much worried about the density figures.
So can I use these source as the reference? No i can't. Because the source is not a direct source. The source has the data. But you need to do all the calculations i did above to find the figure, which is original research. A source said one thing does't mean that the other source is completely wrong. Demographia uses another method to measure the area and it is given in the demographioa document. Also the metro density figures are not used in the infobox. Only the city density is used. Using the data from two very different sources that use different methods, to calculate density will be wrong. So it also doesn't matter.
Have a nice day AG47 Talk 17:17, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
I just can't believe all this discussion about this just went over your head! How is that even possible? comprehensive mobility plan do not talks about metro area. It even contains panchayaths which are NOT part of Trivandrum metro. It's useless here. I said that several times above. All these discussions and we are back to square one! And i am an "amateur"? Can you just stop this name calling? I don't care about who you are and how you are an"experienced senior huge editor". We are here to discuss the issue. So all these name calling is immature. So let's stop that.
1. Your statement: You don't have to take into account census towns at all.
2: Your statement: You took that reference to find out that there are 45 census towns in Kochi UA which totals to 843.84 sq.km? Dude, the whole of Greater Kochi Area itself is only 731 sq.km which you can find in many official govt articles & reports and Kochi UA is only a part of the Greater Kochi Area. And you found out that a part of that 731 sq.km totals to 843.84 sq.km? All your calculations are absolutely contradictory and illogical.
3: Your statement: And clearly this area os only a part of Trivandrum metropolitan area which you're stating as 311 sq.km which itself is a blunder.
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In India, the Census Commission defines the qualification for metropolitan city as, the cities having a population of more than 10 lakhs or one million and above and a Megacity as the cities having a population of more than 10 million and above. Yes, Trivandrum is the metro city of Kerala. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.68.75.160 ( talk) 15:24, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
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change from City to Metropolis as it is an million plus urban agglomeration of india. 157.42.252.105 ( talk) 08:27, 5 November 2020 (UTC)