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Archive 1 |
When I was in London in 1980 three days after the death of Led Zeppelin's drummer John Bonham I was hangin out in Nomis Sound Studios over in Sheperd's Bush. As I walked in with my guitarist we met Nik Lowe who was runnung the place in Simon Napier's abscence since he was in Hong Kong doing God-knows-what with God-knows-who; but Bad Company was in studio A with Graham Parker and the Rumour (with I believe Brinsley-Schwartz on guitar) in studio c; Rockpile was in studio B and a new band called Girlschool was in studio D.
We were greeted warmly as we were staying with a friend down the street; a cat called Pete who had been in Cockney Rebel years before; Nik Lowe was also producing Brian Robertson's band Wild Horses brfore he had joined Motorhead; of course all of London was in mourning for Bonzo so there was nothing happening from King's Road to Dingwalls where the Ramones were hanging out.
Simon Napier Bell was also the manager of Cream at a time when; as Nik Cohn wrote "he was very flash, drove a sportscar and no one was sure where he had made his money"; in other words; a hustler from the French Riveria and a lot of othewr places.
My name is Christopher Witt Diamant. At the time we were hanging out in London Pearly Gates who was Cosmo Vinyl's girlfriend asked myself and my guitarist Chris Lind to join her band; Cosmo was the Clash's manager but Pearly Gates had been the girlfriend of Rafael of the Nuns in san Francisco when he was the drummer for the Nuns and also Rank and File; but we turned her down because she had fired John and Hilary Stanch from her band before coming to London. But Simon Napier Bell is still a major mover in Rock.
Signed; Christopher Witt Diamant scardone@comcast.net —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.80.193.252 ( talk • contribs) .
The Yardbirds was inducted to Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1992, not 1990
This has got to be one of the worst articles I've seen as far as keeping it neutral is concerned.
And also, it reads like a piece out of Rolling Stone, which is all well and good... but not encyclopedic. I am not in a position to improve it, since I know next to nothing about the Yardbirds, but it's such a shame that a band like this has such a fanboyish article. plattopus is this thing on? 19:32, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)
True that parts of it sound like it could come from a Rolling Stone ENCYCLOPEDIA of Rock & Roll, that's right that's from an encyclopedia so it seems contradictory to call it not encyclopedic, the best place to get encyclopedic info on music would probably be a music encyclopedic. The neutrality isn't really that bad, a few sentences are too descriptive for some tastes so just say instead of hammered away, they worked hard at, is it really that disastrous to see hammered away instead of worked hard at. It really shouldn't bug anybody that much. The article is pretty large and has a lot of pictures for most bands especially for one that was only around for a few years in the 60's so I really don't see this at all as a shame but one of the better pages on wikipedia. Patman2648
The first paragraph says they "did not eventually evolve into Led Zeppelin."
I was under the impression that they had, but I don't know. It's somewhat of an intangible thing, so it would be nice if someone who knows them better could clarify. A cursory Google examination usually shows that Led Zeppelin came from the remnants of the Yardbirds.
-- RandomPrecision 07:04, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
from dq: There is a line in the opening paragraph saying: "a crucial link between British R&B and psychedelia (along with the Byrds);"
This should be removed. As a professional musician from that era, I guarantee: a) the Byrds had nothing to do with "linking" anything to British R&B; b) the Byrds have nothing in common musically via genre or style with the Yardbirds. Byrds were an American 12-string folk-rock band with vocal harmonies; Yardbirds were hard, blues-based British rock band. No comparison and nothing in common. Humbly submit that the reference to Byrds in this article be removed. Leaving it up to the editors. Apologies to the author if I have misinterpreted.
The listing of the current band members links to a Ben King born in 1938. The Yardbirds Ben King is in his early twenties. This is on their website, and I can confirm from their October 2006 performance at the 100 club. And by the way, he is one seriously good guitar player.
The facts seem to be alright, but the article really seems to need some heavy NPOV editing. Seems to me that it reads more or less like a Yardbirds love poem. I'm gonna go ahead and have at it some time tomorrow. Robertbieber 00:40, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
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Image:Roger The Engineer.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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Rimersburg native on world tour with British rock band Yardbirds By KAREN CLARK
Don Bish, 34, plays drums for the group, which will appear in Pittsburgh on Friday. Marching to a different drum has landed a Rimersburg native on a world tour with a legendary British rock band.Don Bish, 34, has traveled the globe as a drummer with the Yardbirds, a 1960s-era band famous for starting the careers of three of rock's most famous guitarists - Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck and Jimmy Page. Part of the band's tour includes a concert this Friday in Pittsburgh at Hartstown Acres. While in the area, Bish and the band will be stopping at the Clarion home of his mother, Donna Patterson, who is an associate dean at Clarion University. He is also the son of Richard Bish, an educator employed at the Riverview Intermediate Unit.
ABOUT THE BAND
Long before Bish was born, the London-based group was evolving their sound from blues-based to experimental pop rock, recording such hits as "For Your Love"; "Over, Under, Sideways, Down" and "Heart Full of Soul".Experts say the Yardbirds were pioneers in almost every guitar innovation of the '60s and were one of the first to put an emphasis on complex lead guitar parts and experimentation. The band was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1992. Music authorities declare that unlike many bands of the era, the Yardbirds have continued to aggressively move forward. And, 35 years after appearing on the radar of musical fame, their sound remains distinctly and electrifyingly that of the Yardbirds, who are credited with laying the groundwork for the rock guitar of today. Original band members Chris Dreja, rhythm guitar, and Jim McCarthy, drums and backing vocals, are still performing on tour. New group members include drummer Bish, bassist John Idan, lead guitar Ben King and harmonica player Billy Boy Miskimmin.
FROM RIMERSBURG TO RICHES
Bish said his parents bought him his first set of drums at age 5 and his first drum lesson was in first grade with Mrs. Crissman. The idea of music at school never really caught on for Bish, and he didn't participate in the available venues. "I never played in marching band. I wasn't into all that marching. Besides, kids in the band got beat up and I wasn't very tough," he said with a laugh. Bish said an uncle, Fran Fry of Franklin, who was a jazz drummer and worked with the Pennsylvania Musicians Union, was a major factor in developing his music. "He is one of the reasons I have a passion to play drums and cook. I am a huge barbecue fanatic also," he said. Although he never participated in band at school, he formed a teenage band with Miles Altman, Steve Curll and Dave Daughterer that played AC/DC and Kiss songs. He began playing in local cover bands and says he "cut his teeth" playing for 50 or so people at the Route 68 Bar. "I was 15 and my parents had to escort me in. I thought that was the greatest thing I would ever do," he reflected. After high school, Bish said he tried some college classes at Edinboro and did some odd jobs, but decided it wasn't a life he wanted. The decision to live his dream and pursue his music was easier for him than for his parents, both highly involved in the field of education. "For them, when I decided not to go to college, well, let's just say we had a talk. My parents have doctorates and masters degrees and here is their son," he said with a chuckle. However, Bish said his parents got on board his dreams after seeing his passion for music. "When they saw that, they really supported me. They wanted me to go to college, but saw it wasn't for me. They are good parents," he said. "But, I still get the occasional wisecrack about coming back home and getting a real job." After working a few years and scraping together a small amount of cash, Bish packed up a van purchased for $4,000 and headed to the west coast. "I put in a microwave, a drum set and two suitcases full of clothes and drove to L.A. where I didn't know a soul,' Bish said. With a little help from his parents, Bish got settled into a small apartment for the first month and began a rough journey on the way to his dream. Like many of the millions of musicians and movie stars looking for work in Hollywood, Bish picked up the local music paper and began heading out to auditions. "I roughed it. I survived the first six months eating a lot of Ramen noodles. I really struggled, but kept going to auditions and finally got a gig working with Ace Frehley from KISS in 1995, playing a side gig," he said. The first break lasted a few months, allowing Bish to accumulate some cash and get a better apartment. He then became part of an industrial rock band, The Newly Deads, did a world tour and made three records. "After that I bounced around. I got into Pretty Boy Floyd, an 80s hair band, and ended up doing 12 world tours and two MTV videos with those guys," he said. When that band became "too much of a party and not enough work," Bish began working with Kevin Martin, the singer from Candlebox, and did European and U.S. tours. "I got pretty lucky and just kept getting a better gig each time. They got more professional and kept stepping up," he said. On the way to his Hollywood home after an eight-month tour, Bish said he got a call from his manager about an opportunity to work with the Yardbirds. "I was in a taxi and my manager says, I just emailed you 32 songs - learn as many as you can on the flight to Toronto," he said. "I went home, did laundry and turned around and went back to LAX for a five-and-a-half hour ride to Canada." Not realizing he was showing up to play as part of the group, Bish said he figured it was for a cover band that worked closely with the Yardbirds and was surprised by the opportunity. "Getting a chance to play with the people that invented the type of music I was playing, wow. They are the legends and hall of famers," he said. That was 18 months ago. Now, as an established member of the group, Bish says the Yardbirds are one of the most fun and easiest touring groups he's ever been associated with. "They have been great. I've had the whole band to my mother's house to stay the night and have dinner. They all enjoyed it so much, we are having a barbecue at my Mom's again this trip," he said.
DOWN THE ROAD
After the show concludes in Pittsburgh next week, the current tour for the Yardbirds will be on hiatus until next spring. Meanwhile, Bish will return to his own band, Sink to See. "The Yardbirds take a little time off, so while they do that I get to tour with the band that I actually get to write songs with. We are based out of LA and just signed a publishing deal. The record comes out at Christmas," he said. "So when I get done with that, I get to join back up with the Yardbirds." Keeping pace with a whirlwind schedule doesn't allow much time for anything but music. But, Bish says he doesn't need a vacation. "I haven't had a vacation in 10 years. This is my vacation. Even though I will be in 200 cities in 32 countries during this tour, I have gotten paid to see the world and play music. I love what I do," he declared. "It's hell on your social life, but I can't see myself doing anything else. I have a house in north Hollywood that I get to see for a week here and a week there. I have become an excellent suitcase packer," he added.
CELEBRITY STATUS
As a successful musician, Bish has been interviewed by Rolling Stone magazine, VH1, MTV and countless international and stateside publications. But, returning to his hometown and garnering support from family and community has a stronger draw than fame any where else. "My grandmother was at Clairview Nursing home and not doing too well. I was told I should fly back to see her. She was in her hospital bed and her old lady friends were all around and she introduced me to them as 'her rockstar grandson. That was all I needed," said Bish. Additionally, returning to a rural area and telling local folks you play drums for a living, doesn't carry quite the image of success it may it large metropolitan areas. "In this part of the country, people don't earn a living playing drums. This is the first hometown interview I've done. It feels good. When you leave a town like that and come back, you want to be able to say, 'Look what I've done,'" he said. Experiencing the world of rock music at one of the highest levels, has left Bish with humble gratitude for what he has accomplished. "It's been a bumpy, bumpy road. There is a lot of high and lows. The highs are unbelievably high and the lows are really, really low. But, you fly for 13 hours for one show and there are 2,000 kids waiting at the airport holding signs with your name on it, and it's worth it," he said. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.154.53.69 ( talk) 15:19, August 21, 2007 (UTC)
You say that the band started the careers of the guitarists. You are incorrect. Clapton was in Derek and the Dominoes and Cream beforehand so was already famous...
81.77.83.96 ( talk) 14:20, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Ryan
A new article on the Guardian Unlimited website Eric Clapton is not God quotes Jim McCarty as saying "Eric had these R&B mod songs he wanted us to do. Him leaving was a relief. Eric would be sitting in the van not talking to anyone. You'd think he's so moody, he's such a pain, we're fed up with this."
I'm not a regular editor on this article so I'm not going to wade in something negative like this, but I thought I'd point it out here so it can be discussed and maybe one of the regulars adding something about it. -- WebHamster 12:39, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton ( talk) 06:51, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
The article says that The term, "Yardbird" is used in the southern United States as slang for 'chicken' (as in poultry), and it is a slang expression for "prisoner" I read somewhere (don't remember where) that it was a nod to the great jazz musician Charlie Parker -- who was also known as Yardbird. Mdebellis ( talk) 22:47, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
According to several print sources, including the book included with their 1995 CD box set, it was The Velvet Underground--not The Who--who were Antonioni's first choice for a cameo appearance in Blow Up. Apparently, funds could not be found to make the cross-Atlantic trip and accomodations a reality. Jannyrcobs ( talk) 04:44, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
As an editor at
Crawdaddy!, I'm not posting this link as an external link or otherwise in order to comply with COI regulations. But it is a worthwhile read, originally published in NME in 1965, and contains some colorful quotes, so I humbly submit it for further consideration
interview
Asst. Editor, Crawdaddy!
FenderRhodesScholar |
Talk
19:39, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
I appreciate that Led Zeppelin's formation is more directly linked to the Yardbirds than the fact that Eric Clapton joined Cream after leaving the Yardbirds, but since his leaving YB is mentioned, it wouldn't interrupt the flow of the paragraph, or even that sentence. The term 'Supergroups' comes to mind; Cream and especially Blind Faith are considered such because of Clapton's fame in YB and Cream before BF. Just a suggestion, I will leave notability to more knowledgable hands. Anarchangel ( talk) 19:25, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
It seems many years ago I hear of a name for the group of fans in London that only watched the bands much like the ones in this scene. And for some reason thought them related to the whole clapton is god thing going around. Well if he's not in this film then who are they? Are they a creation of the director? A mod group trying to out mod everyone else? Hopefully, someone here in the wiki, knows the answer and add a little more depth to this important article. also aswell ( talk) 00:41, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
This article reads as if Dreja left first, then John Paul Jones joined. I believe it was the other way around, at least according to Davis' trash book "Hammer of the Gods." While the book sucks, he might have gotten that fact right. Does anyone know? [[[User:Johnheinlein|Johnheinlein]] ( talk) 03:48, 7 September 2009 (UTC)JHeinlein]
I feel that it is a a shock and betrayal of the spirit of this remarkable band-- that produced several rock icons (not to mention much more) up top of the infobox. Even with two long time bandmates in it, the band's sound, look, and even chemistry can not be considered the same. I, myself thought I'd reached the wrong article!! (though thanks to whomever provided the pic, it is very nice especially for a band photo). I will endeavour to find at least one or two photos from the early to mid years, and perhaps we can balance it out. I was really floored to see that they're still playing-- had no idea, and for someone who contributes to a lot of band biographies from the 1960s era especially, that probably means something-- I'm not sure what, but hope it's not bad. Maybe a different vision of where they see the band evolving toward. -- Leahtwosaints ( talk) 17:14, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
I think previous photos from the 1960s have been deleted due to Wikipedia's rules on photo use. The band may look different (as do most bands after forty years !) but their sound is still very much the Yardbirds sound. I don't think there are any major bands from the 1960s still featuring all their original members. They have been performing very successfully for over a decade all round the world so if you were unaware that suggests you are a tad out of touch RGCorris ( talk) 15:41, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
The article makes no reference to the two ways in which the Yardbirds were inventive and different.
1. The first id their trademark 'charge', the rapidly accelerating crescendo. For example, "I'm a man" on the "Five Live Yardbirds" recording clips along at a purposeful 140bpm, then during the crescendo near the end it rises to 180bpm. The effect is used more strongly in "Here t'is" and the incredibly quick "Too much monkey business". In live performance it was an incredibly effective technique.
2. The Yardbirds also used the African "call and response" technique, most clearly in "Here t'is", but also in other tracks. As far as I know, no one else was using the technique in popular music or blues music, and it was not used until Senegalese music gained some exposure decades later. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JamesOfBerkhamstead ( talk • contribs) 23:59, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
The information is good. It just seems like some of it does not belong here.
As it stands the Yardbirds seems less a brand and a concept in its own right and more a brief pivotal intersection of several distinguished careers during the 1960's on their way to greater fame and fortune. If someone were looking for this tangled personal history about the lives of any of these musicians, how would they find this article on the Yardbirds?
I suggest that specific details about related works, individuals, and groups be exported to their respective individual articles, with brief generalized comments being substituted, if required for continuity and clarity in the story about the Yardbirds.
I came to these conclusions before opening the talk page and seeing similar concerns. If we saw the same thing, with me having essentially no prior knowledge of the band at all and no personal stake in the article either, then it might be a style issue rather than NPOV. So I decided to share my perspective in the hope something good may come of it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.238.154 ( talk) 09:32, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
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@ Morgan johndavid: The addition of "new lyrics added by Relf" to "Dazed and Confused" is misleading. Relf sometimes added a verse or two, but basically used most of Holmes' lyrics, although sometime re-ordered – "with lyrics modified by Relf" is more accurate (see Dazed and Confused (song)#Composition for refs and/or compare Holmes' and the five known YB recordings).
Also, adding "The Yardbirds played their final shows May 31 and June 1 at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles and June 4 and 5 at the Spring Fair at the Montgomery International Speedway in Alabama" is only supported by Grant's "recollection" that they never gigged after America. Longtime YB biographers and other RS put it at Luton or in July 1968. The way Grant's view is presented is
WP:UNDUE. Additionally, the paraphrasing misrepresents the actual quote: (paraphrase: "manager Peter Grant in a later interview pinpointed the final shows as the last dates of the U.S. tour" (emphasis added); actual Grant interview: "Well, as I recall, we never played a gig after that American tour, so in reality it fell apart in America ... [Q: So you don't remember the gig at Luton?] No, I can't remember that. What I can remember distinctly is driving Jimmy around Shaftesbury Avenue near the Saville Theatre after the split..." A better paraphrase is "Grant believed that their final show was in the US".
—
Ojorojo (
talk)
20:28, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
@ Ojorojo: Yes, fine and thank you r.e. Relf, and I agree. For the most he part he didn't change the lyrics at all but sometimes did improvise new lines. Will make your recommended change.
As for the Luton gig, this has been a topic of much discussion of late on the Led Zeppelin official forum, where we have perspective from an archivist who contributed to some of those older book sources you mentioned and at one point was working with Jimmy Page to archive all pre-Led Zeppelin dates. He's never been able to confirm the Luton show w/ newspaper reference, review, poster art, "I was there" testimonial, nothing. Jimmy Page doesn't have it either, on his online archives at Jimmypage.com. And we have Grant not remembering it taking place, and Page talking to media in NY about how Relf and McCarty were finished (GO Magazine article published 21 June 1968) and he and Dreja were moving on with a new Yardbirds band. Grant was the manager of the band and was with them on those final dates -- so I do not think his statement is WP:UNDUE? Grant has more weight as a source than the published authors such as Russo, and certainly more weight than the Rough Guide to Rock source used to cite the show (yes, I realize there are better, earlier sources that also list the Luton date and I have been trying to find the original reference for that show taking place). You'll notice I did not remove the Luton reference, respecting wikipedia edit rules, but rather worked around it.
I have also messaged Jim McCarty on this, so hopefully we'll get this cleared up. Even if he did respond it would be not usable independent research, but I do think it's fine as is. Morgan johndavid ( talk) 11:57, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
— Ojorojo ( talk) 15:05, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
They also performed songs by the Velvet Underground ("I'm Waiting for the Man") and Bob Dylan ("Most Likely You Go Your Way And I'll Go Mine"). During the tour, "Dazed and Confused" was added to their repertoire. Adapted from the original written by American folk singer Jake Holmes, it became a popular feature of their live shows from November 1967 onwards. With revised lyrics, Page recorded a similar arrangement with Led Zeppelin for their first album (Page was initially credited as the sole writer; in 2011, he and Holmes settled on the additional "Inspired by Jake Holmes" credit).
"... tour England and Germany" appears to be a left-over from a much earlier version of the article and info like this should not necessarily be relied on. The group backed SBWII on various gigs from 12/7/63 to about 3/13/64. Russo shows all of these in the UK (mostly in the greater London area). Providing inline citations for every sentence is a good habit to get into – most GA/FA reviewers will ask for them. — Ojorojo ( talk) 16:27, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
RGCorris, JPGR69, and others: According to WP:WPMAG#Discography section, "The discography section of the musician's primary article should also provide a summary of the musician's major works. In most cases this is done using a simple list of their studio albums, leaving a complete listing of releases to the discography article ... Live and compilation albums, EPs, singles, etc. should generally not be included." (emphasis added)
The album with Sonny Boy is not a "major work" by the Yardbirds.
Although Five Live is not a studio album, it certainly is a "major work". It was their debut album and one of only two released in the UK during their career. Several critics note its importance as live album for the time and it appears on Larkin's All Time Top 1000 Albums. On the other hand, well-know critic Richie Unterberger notes: "[Sonny Boy Williamson and the Yardbirds] should really be treated as a Sonny Boy Williamson release that happens to have a soon-to-be-famous-but-still-embryonic band in the background, in the manner of the sides the Beatles cut in Hamburg supporting Tony Sheridan". The Beatles album with Sheridan is not included in the discography section of their WP bio. Unless someone comes up with a reliable source that identifies it as a "major work" by the Yardbirds, the album will be removed from the discography section and the YB album chronology restored to before SBW was added.
— Ojorojo ( talk) 18:41, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
When I was in London in 1980 three days after the death of Led Zeppelin's drummer John Bonham I was hangin out in Nomis Sound Studios over in Sheperd's Bush. As I walked in with my guitarist we met Nik Lowe who was runnung the place in Simon Napier's abscence since he was in Hong Kong doing God-knows-what with God-knows-who; but Bad Company was in studio A with Graham Parker and the Rumour (with I believe Brinsley-Schwartz on guitar) in studio c; Rockpile was in studio B and a new band called Girlschool was in studio D.
We were greeted warmly as we were staying with a friend down the street; a cat called Pete who had been in Cockney Rebel years before; Nik Lowe was also producing Brian Robertson's band Wild Horses brfore he had joined Motorhead; of course all of London was in mourning for Bonzo so there was nothing happening from King's Road to Dingwalls where the Ramones were hanging out.
Simon Napier Bell was also the manager of Cream at a time when; as Nik Cohn wrote "he was very flash, drove a sportscar and no one was sure where he had made his money"; in other words; a hustler from the French Riveria and a lot of othewr places.
My name is Christopher Witt Diamant. At the time we were hanging out in London Pearly Gates who was Cosmo Vinyl's girlfriend asked myself and my guitarist Chris Lind to join her band; Cosmo was the Clash's manager but Pearly Gates had been the girlfriend of Rafael of the Nuns in san Francisco when he was the drummer for the Nuns and also Rank and File; but we turned her down because she had fired John and Hilary Stanch from her band before coming to London. But Simon Napier Bell is still a major mover in Rock.
Signed; Christopher Witt Diamant scardone@comcast.net —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.80.193.252 ( talk • contribs) .
The Yardbirds was inducted to Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1992, not 1990
This has got to be one of the worst articles I've seen as far as keeping it neutral is concerned.
And also, it reads like a piece out of Rolling Stone, which is all well and good... but not encyclopedic. I am not in a position to improve it, since I know next to nothing about the Yardbirds, but it's such a shame that a band like this has such a fanboyish article. plattopus is this thing on? 19:32, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)
True that parts of it sound like it could come from a Rolling Stone ENCYCLOPEDIA of Rock & Roll, that's right that's from an encyclopedia so it seems contradictory to call it not encyclopedic, the best place to get encyclopedic info on music would probably be a music encyclopedic. The neutrality isn't really that bad, a few sentences are too descriptive for some tastes so just say instead of hammered away, they worked hard at, is it really that disastrous to see hammered away instead of worked hard at. It really shouldn't bug anybody that much. The article is pretty large and has a lot of pictures for most bands especially for one that was only around for a few years in the 60's so I really don't see this at all as a shame but one of the better pages on wikipedia. Patman2648
The first paragraph says they "did not eventually evolve into Led Zeppelin."
I was under the impression that they had, but I don't know. It's somewhat of an intangible thing, so it would be nice if someone who knows them better could clarify. A cursory Google examination usually shows that Led Zeppelin came from the remnants of the Yardbirds.
-- RandomPrecision 07:04, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
from dq: There is a line in the opening paragraph saying: "a crucial link between British R&B and psychedelia (along with the Byrds);"
This should be removed. As a professional musician from that era, I guarantee: a) the Byrds had nothing to do with "linking" anything to British R&B; b) the Byrds have nothing in common musically via genre or style with the Yardbirds. Byrds were an American 12-string folk-rock band with vocal harmonies; Yardbirds were hard, blues-based British rock band. No comparison and nothing in common. Humbly submit that the reference to Byrds in this article be removed. Leaving it up to the editors. Apologies to the author if I have misinterpreted.
The listing of the current band members links to a Ben King born in 1938. The Yardbirds Ben King is in his early twenties. This is on their website, and I can confirm from their October 2006 performance at the 100 club. And by the way, he is one seriously good guitar player.
The facts seem to be alright, but the article really seems to need some heavy NPOV editing. Seems to me that it reads more or less like a Yardbirds love poem. I'm gonna go ahead and have at it some time tomorrow. Robertbieber 00:40, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
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Rimersburg native on world tour with British rock band Yardbirds By KAREN CLARK
Don Bish, 34, plays drums for the group, which will appear in Pittsburgh on Friday. Marching to a different drum has landed a Rimersburg native on a world tour with a legendary British rock band.Don Bish, 34, has traveled the globe as a drummer with the Yardbirds, a 1960s-era band famous for starting the careers of three of rock's most famous guitarists - Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck and Jimmy Page. Part of the band's tour includes a concert this Friday in Pittsburgh at Hartstown Acres. While in the area, Bish and the band will be stopping at the Clarion home of his mother, Donna Patterson, who is an associate dean at Clarion University. He is also the son of Richard Bish, an educator employed at the Riverview Intermediate Unit.
ABOUT THE BAND
Long before Bish was born, the London-based group was evolving their sound from blues-based to experimental pop rock, recording such hits as "For Your Love"; "Over, Under, Sideways, Down" and "Heart Full of Soul".Experts say the Yardbirds were pioneers in almost every guitar innovation of the '60s and were one of the first to put an emphasis on complex lead guitar parts and experimentation. The band was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1992. Music authorities declare that unlike many bands of the era, the Yardbirds have continued to aggressively move forward. And, 35 years after appearing on the radar of musical fame, their sound remains distinctly and electrifyingly that of the Yardbirds, who are credited with laying the groundwork for the rock guitar of today. Original band members Chris Dreja, rhythm guitar, and Jim McCarthy, drums and backing vocals, are still performing on tour. New group members include drummer Bish, bassist John Idan, lead guitar Ben King and harmonica player Billy Boy Miskimmin.
FROM RIMERSBURG TO RICHES
Bish said his parents bought him his first set of drums at age 5 and his first drum lesson was in first grade with Mrs. Crissman. The idea of music at school never really caught on for Bish, and he didn't participate in the available venues. "I never played in marching band. I wasn't into all that marching. Besides, kids in the band got beat up and I wasn't very tough," he said with a laugh. Bish said an uncle, Fran Fry of Franklin, who was a jazz drummer and worked with the Pennsylvania Musicians Union, was a major factor in developing his music. "He is one of the reasons I have a passion to play drums and cook. I am a huge barbecue fanatic also," he said. Although he never participated in band at school, he formed a teenage band with Miles Altman, Steve Curll and Dave Daughterer that played AC/DC and Kiss songs. He began playing in local cover bands and says he "cut his teeth" playing for 50 or so people at the Route 68 Bar. "I was 15 and my parents had to escort me in. I thought that was the greatest thing I would ever do," he reflected. After high school, Bish said he tried some college classes at Edinboro and did some odd jobs, but decided it wasn't a life he wanted. The decision to live his dream and pursue his music was easier for him than for his parents, both highly involved in the field of education. "For them, when I decided not to go to college, well, let's just say we had a talk. My parents have doctorates and masters degrees and here is their son," he said with a chuckle. However, Bish said his parents got on board his dreams after seeing his passion for music. "When they saw that, they really supported me. They wanted me to go to college, but saw it wasn't for me. They are good parents," he said. "But, I still get the occasional wisecrack about coming back home and getting a real job." After working a few years and scraping together a small amount of cash, Bish packed up a van purchased for $4,000 and headed to the west coast. "I put in a microwave, a drum set and two suitcases full of clothes and drove to L.A. where I didn't know a soul,' Bish said. With a little help from his parents, Bish got settled into a small apartment for the first month and began a rough journey on the way to his dream. Like many of the millions of musicians and movie stars looking for work in Hollywood, Bish picked up the local music paper and began heading out to auditions. "I roughed it. I survived the first six months eating a lot of Ramen noodles. I really struggled, but kept going to auditions and finally got a gig working with Ace Frehley from KISS in 1995, playing a side gig," he said. The first break lasted a few months, allowing Bish to accumulate some cash and get a better apartment. He then became part of an industrial rock band, The Newly Deads, did a world tour and made three records. "After that I bounced around. I got into Pretty Boy Floyd, an 80s hair band, and ended up doing 12 world tours and two MTV videos with those guys," he said. When that band became "too much of a party and not enough work," Bish began working with Kevin Martin, the singer from Candlebox, and did European and U.S. tours. "I got pretty lucky and just kept getting a better gig each time. They got more professional and kept stepping up," he said. On the way to his Hollywood home after an eight-month tour, Bish said he got a call from his manager about an opportunity to work with the Yardbirds. "I was in a taxi and my manager says, I just emailed you 32 songs - learn as many as you can on the flight to Toronto," he said. "I went home, did laundry and turned around and went back to LAX for a five-and-a-half hour ride to Canada." Not realizing he was showing up to play as part of the group, Bish said he figured it was for a cover band that worked closely with the Yardbirds and was surprised by the opportunity. "Getting a chance to play with the people that invented the type of music I was playing, wow. They are the legends and hall of famers," he said. That was 18 months ago. Now, as an established member of the group, Bish says the Yardbirds are one of the most fun and easiest touring groups he's ever been associated with. "They have been great. I've had the whole band to my mother's house to stay the night and have dinner. They all enjoyed it so much, we are having a barbecue at my Mom's again this trip," he said.
DOWN THE ROAD
After the show concludes in Pittsburgh next week, the current tour for the Yardbirds will be on hiatus until next spring. Meanwhile, Bish will return to his own band, Sink to See. "The Yardbirds take a little time off, so while they do that I get to tour with the band that I actually get to write songs with. We are based out of LA and just signed a publishing deal. The record comes out at Christmas," he said. "So when I get done with that, I get to join back up with the Yardbirds." Keeping pace with a whirlwind schedule doesn't allow much time for anything but music. But, Bish says he doesn't need a vacation. "I haven't had a vacation in 10 years. This is my vacation. Even though I will be in 200 cities in 32 countries during this tour, I have gotten paid to see the world and play music. I love what I do," he declared. "It's hell on your social life, but I can't see myself doing anything else. I have a house in north Hollywood that I get to see for a week here and a week there. I have become an excellent suitcase packer," he added.
CELEBRITY STATUS
As a successful musician, Bish has been interviewed by Rolling Stone magazine, VH1, MTV and countless international and stateside publications. But, returning to his hometown and garnering support from family and community has a stronger draw than fame any where else. "My grandmother was at Clairview Nursing home and not doing too well. I was told I should fly back to see her. She was in her hospital bed and her old lady friends were all around and she introduced me to them as 'her rockstar grandson. That was all I needed," said Bish. Additionally, returning to a rural area and telling local folks you play drums for a living, doesn't carry quite the image of success it may it large metropolitan areas. "In this part of the country, people don't earn a living playing drums. This is the first hometown interview I've done. It feels good. When you leave a town like that and come back, you want to be able to say, 'Look what I've done,'" he said. Experiencing the world of rock music at one of the highest levels, has left Bish with humble gratitude for what he has accomplished. "It's been a bumpy, bumpy road. There is a lot of high and lows. The highs are unbelievably high and the lows are really, really low. But, you fly for 13 hours for one show and there are 2,000 kids waiting at the airport holding signs with your name on it, and it's worth it," he said. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.154.53.69 ( talk) 15:19, August 21, 2007 (UTC)
You say that the band started the careers of the guitarists. You are incorrect. Clapton was in Derek and the Dominoes and Cream beforehand so was already famous...
81.77.83.96 ( talk) 14:20, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Ryan
A new article on the Guardian Unlimited website Eric Clapton is not God quotes Jim McCarty as saying "Eric had these R&B mod songs he wanted us to do. Him leaving was a relief. Eric would be sitting in the van not talking to anyone. You'd think he's so moody, he's such a pain, we're fed up with this."
I'm not a regular editor on this article so I'm not going to wade in something negative like this, but I thought I'd point it out here so it can be discussed and maybe one of the regulars adding something about it. -- WebHamster 12:39, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton ( talk) 06:51, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
The article says that The term, "Yardbird" is used in the southern United States as slang for 'chicken' (as in poultry), and it is a slang expression for "prisoner" I read somewhere (don't remember where) that it was a nod to the great jazz musician Charlie Parker -- who was also known as Yardbird. Mdebellis ( talk) 22:47, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
According to several print sources, including the book included with their 1995 CD box set, it was The Velvet Underground--not The Who--who were Antonioni's first choice for a cameo appearance in Blow Up. Apparently, funds could not be found to make the cross-Atlantic trip and accomodations a reality. Jannyrcobs ( talk) 04:44, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
As an editor at
Crawdaddy!, I'm not posting this link as an external link or otherwise in order to comply with COI regulations. But it is a worthwhile read, originally published in NME in 1965, and contains some colorful quotes, so I humbly submit it for further consideration
interview
Asst. Editor, Crawdaddy!
FenderRhodesScholar |
Talk
19:39, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
I appreciate that Led Zeppelin's formation is more directly linked to the Yardbirds than the fact that Eric Clapton joined Cream after leaving the Yardbirds, but since his leaving YB is mentioned, it wouldn't interrupt the flow of the paragraph, or even that sentence. The term 'Supergroups' comes to mind; Cream and especially Blind Faith are considered such because of Clapton's fame in YB and Cream before BF. Just a suggestion, I will leave notability to more knowledgable hands. Anarchangel ( talk) 19:25, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
It seems many years ago I hear of a name for the group of fans in London that only watched the bands much like the ones in this scene. And for some reason thought them related to the whole clapton is god thing going around. Well if he's not in this film then who are they? Are they a creation of the director? A mod group trying to out mod everyone else? Hopefully, someone here in the wiki, knows the answer and add a little more depth to this important article. also aswell ( talk) 00:41, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
This article reads as if Dreja left first, then John Paul Jones joined. I believe it was the other way around, at least according to Davis' trash book "Hammer of the Gods." While the book sucks, he might have gotten that fact right. Does anyone know? [[[User:Johnheinlein|Johnheinlein]] ( talk) 03:48, 7 September 2009 (UTC)JHeinlein]
I feel that it is a a shock and betrayal of the spirit of this remarkable band-- that produced several rock icons (not to mention much more) up top of the infobox. Even with two long time bandmates in it, the band's sound, look, and even chemistry can not be considered the same. I, myself thought I'd reached the wrong article!! (though thanks to whomever provided the pic, it is very nice especially for a band photo). I will endeavour to find at least one or two photos from the early to mid years, and perhaps we can balance it out. I was really floored to see that they're still playing-- had no idea, and for someone who contributes to a lot of band biographies from the 1960s era especially, that probably means something-- I'm not sure what, but hope it's not bad. Maybe a different vision of where they see the band evolving toward. -- Leahtwosaints ( talk) 17:14, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
I think previous photos from the 1960s have been deleted due to Wikipedia's rules on photo use. The band may look different (as do most bands after forty years !) but their sound is still very much the Yardbirds sound. I don't think there are any major bands from the 1960s still featuring all their original members. They have been performing very successfully for over a decade all round the world so if you were unaware that suggests you are a tad out of touch RGCorris ( talk) 15:41, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
The article makes no reference to the two ways in which the Yardbirds were inventive and different.
1. The first id their trademark 'charge', the rapidly accelerating crescendo. For example, "I'm a man" on the "Five Live Yardbirds" recording clips along at a purposeful 140bpm, then during the crescendo near the end it rises to 180bpm. The effect is used more strongly in "Here t'is" and the incredibly quick "Too much monkey business". In live performance it was an incredibly effective technique.
2. The Yardbirds also used the African "call and response" technique, most clearly in "Here t'is", but also in other tracks. As far as I know, no one else was using the technique in popular music or blues music, and it was not used until Senegalese music gained some exposure decades later. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JamesOfBerkhamstead ( talk • contribs) 23:59, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
The information is good. It just seems like some of it does not belong here.
As it stands the Yardbirds seems less a brand and a concept in its own right and more a brief pivotal intersection of several distinguished careers during the 1960's on their way to greater fame and fortune. If someone were looking for this tangled personal history about the lives of any of these musicians, how would they find this article on the Yardbirds?
I suggest that specific details about related works, individuals, and groups be exported to their respective individual articles, with brief generalized comments being substituted, if required for continuity and clarity in the story about the Yardbirds.
I came to these conclusions before opening the talk page and seeing similar concerns. If we saw the same thing, with me having essentially no prior knowledge of the band at all and no personal stake in the article either, then it might be a style issue rather than NPOV. So I decided to share my perspective in the hope something good may come of it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.238.154 ( talk) 09:32, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
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@ Morgan johndavid: The addition of "new lyrics added by Relf" to "Dazed and Confused" is misleading. Relf sometimes added a verse or two, but basically used most of Holmes' lyrics, although sometime re-ordered – "with lyrics modified by Relf" is more accurate (see Dazed and Confused (song)#Composition for refs and/or compare Holmes' and the five known YB recordings).
Also, adding "The Yardbirds played their final shows May 31 and June 1 at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles and June 4 and 5 at the Spring Fair at the Montgomery International Speedway in Alabama" is only supported by Grant's "recollection" that they never gigged after America. Longtime YB biographers and other RS put it at Luton or in July 1968. The way Grant's view is presented is
WP:UNDUE. Additionally, the paraphrasing misrepresents the actual quote: (paraphrase: "manager Peter Grant in a later interview pinpointed the final shows as the last dates of the U.S. tour" (emphasis added); actual Grant interview: "Well, as I recall, we never played a gig after that American tour, so in reality it fell apart in America ... [Q: So you don't remember the gig at Luton?] No, I can't remember that. What I can remember distinctly is driving Jimmy around Shaftesbury Avenue near the Saville Theatre after the split..." A better paraphrase is "Grant believed that their final show was in the US".
—
Ojorojo (
talk)
20:28, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
@ Ojorojo: Yes, fine and thank you r.e. Relf, and I agree. For the most he part he didn't change the lyrics at all but sometimes did improvise new lines. Will make your recommended change.
As for the Luton gig, this has been a topic of much discussion of late on the Led Zeppelin official forum, where we have perspective from an archivist who contributed to some of those older book sources you mentioned and at one point was working with Jimmy Page to archive all pre-Led Zeppelin dates. He's never been able to confirm the Luton show w/ newspaper reference, review, poster art, "I was there" testimonial, nothing. Jimmy Page doesn't have it either, on his online archives at Jimmypage.com. And we have Grant not remembering it taking place, and Page talking to media in NY about how Relf and McCarty were finished (GO Magazine article published 21 June 1968) and he and Dreja were moving on with a new Yardbirds band. Grant was the manager of the band and was with them on those final dates -- so I do not think his statement is WP:UNDUE? Grant has more weight as a source than the published authors such as Russo, and certainly more weight than the Rough Guide to Rock source used to cite the show (yes, I realize there are better, earlier sources that also list the Luton date and I have been trying to find the original reference for that show taking place). You'll notice I did not remove the Luton reference, respecting wikipedia edit rules, but rather worked around it.
I have also messaged Jim McCarty on this, so hopefully we'll get this cleared up. Even if he did respond it would be not usable independent research, but I do think it's fine as is. Morgan johndavid ( talk) 11:57, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
— Ojorojo ( talk) 15:05, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
They also performed songs by the Velvet Underground ("I'm Waiting for the Man") and Bob Dylan ("Most Likely You Go Your Way And I'll Go Mine"). During the tour, "Dazed and Confused" was added to their repertoire. Adapted from the original written by American folk singer Jake Holmes, it became a popular feature of their live shows from November 1967 onwards. With revised lyrics, Page recorded a similar arrangement with Led Zeppelin for their first album (Page was initially credited as the sole writer; in 2011, he and Holmes settled on the additional "Inspired by Jake Holmes" credit).
"... tour England and Germany" appears to be a left-over from a much earlier version of the article and info like this should not necessarily be relied on. The group backed SBWII on various gigs from 12/7/63 to about 3/13/64. Russo shows all of these in the UK (mostly in the greater London area). Providing inline citations for every sentence is a good habit to get into – most GA/FA reviewers will ask for them. — Ojorojo ( talk) 16:27, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
RGCorris, JPGR69, and others: According to WP:WPMAG#Discography section, "The discography section of the musician's primary article should also provide a summary of the musician's major works. In most cases this is done using a simple list of their studio albums, leaving a complete listing of releases to the discography article ... Live and compilation albums, EPs, singles, etc. should generally not be included." (emphasis added)
The album with Sonny Boy is not a "major work" by the Yardbirds.
Although Five Live is not a studio album, it certainly is a "major work". It was their debut album and one of only two released in the UK during their career. Several critics note its importance as live album for the time and it appears on Larkin's All Time Top 1000 Albums. On the other hand, well-know critic Richie Unterberger notes: "[Sonny Boy Williamson and the Yardbirds] should really be treated as a Sonny Boy Williamson release that happens to have a soon-to-be-famous-but-still-embryonic band in the background, in the manner of the sides the Beatles cut in Hamburg supporting Tony Sheridan". The Beatles album with Sheridan is not included in the discography section of their WP bio. Unless someone comes up with a reliable source that identifies it as a "major work" by the Yardbirds, the album will be removed from the discography section and the YB album chronology restored to before SBW was added.
— Ojorojo ( talk) 18:41, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
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