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We cannot just drop any instance of a line being used that was in the Warriors, because that would be us - as editors - doing so, and we are not citable. For an instance to be added, it has to have a source that explicitly speaks to the use of material from The Warriors. - Jack Sebastian ( talk) 15:57, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved ( closed by non-admin page mover) Calidum 08:29, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
Our own pageviews show that the film article gets 12 times as many views on an average day as the novel article. And I won't even get into the Jakes novel or the video game. None of the other title possibilities really get involved, as they have built-in disambiguation. The film is clearly the primary topic here. Daniel Case ( talk) 18:37, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
"There should be no primary topic" is not how we begin this inquiry; in fact, that question has no place in this discussion. It's "Is there a primary topic?" And there is ... the movie. No one above the age of, say, 6, would be likely to search for information on the team here by typing "The Warriors" into the search field. The fact that the article on the team gets more views cannot tell us much about whether those viewing it came from The Warriors or some other link. It's not like Hoyas, which takes you straight to the page about Georgetown's athletic teams because there's no other possible meaning for that term.
Indeed, persisting in maintaining the disambiguation page as the landing page for this makes about as much as sense as having " Bear" be a disambiguation page since people might come looking for information on the California Golden Bears, or better still the Chicago Bears. I would note that we have an even more extensive disambiguation page that " Warriors" leads you to from Warrior", with, indeed, just about every link on " The Warriors" included ... maybe we have one more dab page than we need. Daniel Case ( talk) 02:40, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
Note that both The Godfather and Deliverance offer many other possibilities, as they're both very common words—yet clicking those links will take you right to the articles on the movies with those names. The Omen also takes you to the 1976 movie (and that's an even more common term with a lot more other article titles than "The Warriors". I do not see the logic in not applying the same principle here. Daniel Case ( talk) 02:56, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
GOOGLETEST, AFAICT, gives us no guidance on how to use it for this purpose. But if search engines have adapted to putting information about a particular response to a query in a sidebar, as you have conceded all three of them do, that should settle any discussion about which links people are overwhelmingly likely to click on out of the options presented.
I don't put any stock in the mix of team and movie results, and neither should you ... in fact I find it far more telling that a movie made over 40 years ago does that well compared to a pro basketball team that has played a season every year since then, some of them pretty good ones. Also consider that there are a lot more websites that have some focus on the basketball team, but not many devoted to the movie, and yet the movie reaches the top of the results. Daniel Case ( talk) 20:55, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
So the pro basketball team is called "the Warriors"? I never would've guessed ... I mean, it's only their name, and the name of so many other sports teams. What makes them The Warriors? The Boston-area NFL team is surely, to its fans and many others, The Patriots, but Patriots nevertheless does not take you to New England Patriots (There are movies called The Patriots, you may doubtless argue in response, but I would remind you before you make that argument that none of them have been popular cult movies for four decades).
And, again, I think that only people with heads full of sand actually try to get to that article on the basketball team by searching on "The Warriors" ... reasonable people would type in "Golden State" first. If you can show me, somehow, that a substantial majority of the clicks from the current dab page are on the basketball team article (which, if it is so overwhelmingly the choice of readers, ought to be the topmost link on it), then I will consider you (or anyone else here) as having advanced a serious argument in favor of that position. But only then. Daniel Case ( talk) 20:55, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
Yes, it is true that the basketball team article gets a lot more internal traffic, but that is easily explained as a factor by the much greater amount of links to it. And I will go into more detail below as to why that, and the traffic resulting from it, is a dubious and misleading metric within the context of this discussion. Daniel Case ( talk) 05:08, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
This is basically an example of the top-level statistical fallacy. We must take into account the difference between the two articles' subjects and whether they can honestly be compared with each other in how they generate traffic and linkage throughout the encyclopedia.
The film article concerns a work made over 40 years ago, a cult film of enduring and continuing notability based on a novel over 50 years old that fewer and fewer viewers discovering the film for the first time are even aware exists unless they pay close attention to the credits. There have been no sequels or remakes since it came out. There have been two video game adaptations, but neither has set that medium on fire, to put it mildly. We have long had articles on its writer-director and cast that link to this film.
In short, it is likely that the 481 links to this page from elsewhere in Wikipedia are probably about 98% of the links this article is likely to ever have.
The basketball team article, on the other hand, concerns a team that has played in the NBA and its predecessor the BAA constantly for over 75 years and reasonably can be expected to continue doing so for the foreseeable future. Each of those years has generated an article on the team's season for that year, as well as a list of those season articles. The team article will necessarily be linked as well from the corresponding article on each NBA season, and likely many articles on other team's seasons. From the article on each player, each coach, each owner and everyone notable associated with the team in some way, there will be a link. Each season rosters will change and at least some people not previously associated with the team will be, requiring a link from their article. When players on other teams have notable incidents in their careers in games against the Warriors, that will require a link from their articles.
And so on. There are currently 4,217 links to the main Golden State Warriors article. Naturally that structurally inevitable disparity, almost a 9-to-1 ratio is going to drive a lot more traffic. So it's misleading to say that the greater amount of pageviews settles the question. Daniel Case ( talk) 05:56, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
All links are not alike. Some reflect genuine encyclopedic purpose more than others. It's much more likely that a curious reader clicks in another article than from a vandalism warning reflecting the single edit made by that IP in over 20 years of Wikipedia's existence.
Links from user pages also generally should not be counted, as they are often statements of fandom (there is a userbox for the film used on 24 pages, and of course one for the basketball team on 55 pages. User pages, like user talk pages, are much more widely read by Wikipedians than outsiders, so they don't really reflect the curiosity the encyclopedia is meant to serve.
If we take away user page links from the film article, we are down to 385 links. Doing the same with the basketball team takes us down to 3,912. Eliminating user talk pages reduces further to 309 and 3,691.[ [4], [5]
Category pages, too, aren't big players in the encyclopedia game. I don't think many non-editing viewers click links to these articles from that space. There are no links to the film article from categories, but 14 to the team article, so we're down to 3,677. Daniel Case ( talk) 05:50, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
"Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain" – Friedrich Schiller Daniel Case ( talk) 04:35, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
I know this is a well known movie but how did an entire plot summary get posted and it is completely lacking and references. Frenchfriesaredelicious ( talk) 20:12, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
Anyone know? 66.205.217.67 ( talk) 05:54, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
The Warriors (film) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 90 days |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
We cannot just drop any instance of a line being used that was in the Warriors, because that would be us - as editors - doing so, and we are not citable. For an instance to be added, it has to have a source that explicitly speaks to the use of material from The Warriors. - Jack Sebastian ( talk) 15:57, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved ( closed by non-admin page mover) Calidum 08:29, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
Our own pageviews show that the film article gets 12 times as many views on an average day as the novel article. And I won't even get into the Jakes novel or the video game. None of the other title possibilities really get involved, as they have built-in disambiguation. The film is clearly the primary topic here. Daniel Case ( talk) 18:37, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
"There should be no primary topic" is not how we begin this inquiry; in fact, that question has no place in this discussion. It's "Is there a primary topic?" And there is ... the movie. No one above the age of, say, 6, would be likely to search for information on the team here by typing "The Warriors" into the search field. The fact that the article on the team gets more views cannot tell us much about whether those viewing it came from The Warriors or some other link. It's not like Hoyas, which takes you straight to the page about Georgetown's athletic teams because there's no other possible meaning for that term.
Indeed, persisting in maintaining the disambiguation page as the landing page for this makes about as much as sense as having " Bear" be a disambiguation page since people might come looking for information on the California Golden Bears, or better still the Chicago Bears. I would note that we have an even more extensive disambiguation page that " Warriors" leads you to from Warrior", with, indeed, just about every link on " The Warriors" included ... maybe we have one more dab page than we need. Daniel Case ( talk) 02:40, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
Note that both The Godfather and Deliverance offer many other possibilities, as they're both very common words—yet clicking those links will take you right to the articles on the movies with those names. The Omen also takes you to the 1976 movie (and that's an even more common term with a lot more other article titles than "The Warriors". I do not see the logic in not applying the same principle here. Daniel Case ( talk) 02:56, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
GOOGLETEST, AFAICT, gives us no guidance on how to use it for this purpose. But if search engines have adapted to putting information about a particular response to a query in a sidebar, as you have conceded all three of them do, that should settle any discussion about which links people are overwhelmingly likely to click on out of the options presented.
I don't put any stock in the mix of team and movie results, and neither should you ... in fact I find it far more telling that a movie made over 40 years ago does that well compared to a pro basketball team that has played a season every year since then, some of them pretty good ones. Also consider that there are a lot more websites that have some focus on the basketball team, but not many devoted to the movie, and yet the movie reaches the top of the results. Daniel Case ( talk) 20:55, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
So the pro basketball team is called "the Warriors"? I never would've guessed ... I mean, it's only their name, and the name of so many other sports teams. What makes them The Warriors? The Boston-area NFL team is surely, to its fans and many others, The Patriots, but Patriots nevertheless does not take you to New England Patriots (There are movies called The Patriots, you may doubtless argue in response, but I would remind you before you make that argument that none of them have been popular cult movies for four decades).
And, again, I think that only people with heads full of sand actually try to get to that article on the basketball team by searching on "The Warriors" ... reasonable people would type in "Golden State" first. If you can show me, somehow, that a substantial majority of the clicks from the current dab page are on the basketball team article (which, if it is so overwhelmingly the choice of readers, ought to be the topmost link on it), then I will consider you (or anyone else here) as having advanced a serious argument in favor of that position. But only then. Daniel Case ( talk) 20:55, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
Yes, it is true that the basketball team article gets a lot more internal traffic, but that is easily explained as a factor by the much greater amount of links to it. And I will go into more detail below as to why that, and the traffic resulting from it, is a dubious and misleading metric within the context of this discussion. Daniel Case ( talk) 05:08, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
This is basically an example of the top-level statistical fallacy. We must take into account the difference between the two articles' subjects and whether they can honestly be compared with each other in how they generate traffic and linkage throughout the encyclopedia.
The film article concerns a work made over 40 years ago, a cult film of enduring and continuing notability based on a novel over 50 years old that fewer and fewer viewers discovering the film for the first time are even aware exists unless they pay close attention to the credits. There have been no sequels or remakes since it came out. There have been two video game adaptations, but neither has set that medium on fire, to put it mildly. We have long had articles on its writer-director and cast that link to this film.
In short, it is likely that the 481 links to this page from elsewhere in Wikipedia are probably about 98% of the links this article is likely to ever have.
The basketball team article, on the other hand, concerns a team that has played in the NBA and its predecessor the BAA constantly for over 75 years and reasonably can be expected to continue doing so for the foreseeable future. Each of those years has generated an article on the team's season for that year, as well as a list of those season articles. The team article will necessarily be linked as well from the corresponding article on each NBA season, and likely many articles on other team's seasons. From the article on each player, each coach, each owner and everyone notable associated with the team in some way, there will be a link. Each season rosters will change and at least some people not previously associated with the team will be, requiring a link from their article. When players on other teams have notable incidents in their careers in games against the Warriors, that will require a link from their articles.
And so on. There are currently 4,217 links to the main Golden State Warriors article. Naturally that structurally inevitable disparity, almost a 9-to-1 ratio is going to drive a lot more traffic. So it's misleading to say that the greater amount of pageviews settles the question. Daniel Case ( talk) 05:56, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
All links are not alike. Some reflect genuine encyclopedic purpose more than others. It's much more likely that a curious reader clicks in another article than from a vandalism warning reflecting the single edit made by that IP in over 20 years of Wikipedia's existence.
Links from user pages also generally should not be counted, as they are often statements of fandom (there is a userbox for the film used on 24 pages, and of course one for the basketball team on 55 pages. User pages, like user talk pages, are much more widely read by Wikipedians than outsiders, so they don't really reflect the curiosity the encyclopedia is meant to serve.
If we take away user page links from the film article, we are down to 385 links. Doing the same with the basketball team takes us down to 3,912. Eliminating user talk pages reduces further to 309 and 3,691.[ [4], [5]
Category pages, too, aren't big players in the encyclopedia game. I don't think many non-editing viewers click links to these articles from that space. There are no links to the film article from categories, but 14 to the team article, so we're down to 3,677. Daniel Case ( talk) 05:50, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
"Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain" – Friedrich Schiller Daniel Case ( talk) 04:35, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
I know this is a well known movie but how did an entire plot summary get posted and it is completely lacking and references. Frenchfriesaredelicious ( talk) 20:12, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
Anyone know? 66.205.217.67 ( talk) 05:54, 4 March 2024 (UTC)