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It's fair enough to keep that section in if it adds information to the article and it comes from a citatble source. But I edited it to focus on the info it adds to what is already in the article because it was repeating stuff that was dealt with in the main text and also because Wikipedia text shouldn't just be a reproduction of the text of credits. I tagged it because it really needs a footnote specifying which edition the credits were taken from - they may well have differed from series to series and there may have been certain credits that only appeared on particular shows (although more likely related to acts rather than production team). If we're going to have credits info like this there's an argument that the article should also include the names of onscreen assistants who, if memory serves me right, also appeared in the credits. Circusandmagicfan 11:59, 18 March 2007 (UTC)Circusandmagicfan
Hi - this list is from the only copy of the programme I've got (the closing episode of the first series) and it would obviously be useful to compare with other tapes. However I have *not* edited the list in any way (i.e. that's all there is, so no credits to assistants or whatever). I thought this source more reliable than e.g. "memory" (from you or whoever, not pointing fingers!) or the BFI database (notorious for substandard entries, themselves drawn only from onscreen credits) - particularly as TV companies traditionally save the fullest list of credits for the last episode of a series. Also, at the time I first put the list in there was next to nothing in the entry, so it is somewhat strange for you to complain it repeats what was in the entry: so far as I can tell from the history it was you who removed the list and then used it to add things to the entry. Hope that clears things up! Testbed 14:02, 18 March 2007 (UTC)TestBed
All clear - thanks! The issues with the Drake entry itself seem a little more complicated - maybe you can join in as your work is helpfully in the spirit of W (unlike some of the edits which have been going on there) Testbed 18:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)TestBed
BTW where do you get the line about "praised by broadcasters" from? Is this private infomation, published material, or are you deducing it from the RTS nomination? If the last, then there is probably a better way of characterising things: RTS nominations are decided by the membership of the RTS, which includes broadcasters but also many other categories of people working in the television industry (I just spent some time looking at their website www.rts.org.uk which makes this clear) Testbed 14:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC)TestBed
Sounds fair (I like the way you've left it btw) Testbed 18:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)TestBed
Circusandmagicfan, having been away from the page for a while I see you have been working hard on sources - but have also put back the "created" claim, which has been in and out of the page a few times. You use this, anyway rather odd, word (are TV shows even "created"?) more than once, which seems to be over-egging things rather. However, more seriously, what's your source? When I looked out the old video of the show, there was no indication on the credits of any "creative" work by Drake - apart from being the star, of course (if you look back at the credit list I added, you can confirm this). I am pressing the point as I remain concerned about NPOV (e.g. unsourced "crowned heads of Europe" - joke - and of course that editor who tells you privately he's Drake’s brother but conceals the fact on his User page). Testbed 18:17, 21 April 2007 (UTC)Testbed
I've now done as promised above and looked out my (only) tape of Secret Cabaret to check the titles again. It is as I thought (and contributed to the page): there is *no* credit for Drake along the lines of "Conceived" - the only credits are the ones I listed at the time. So I question the way you have sourced this, and anyway question your using the strange credit twice within a short entry. My tape is from the first series so the whole business is even stranger: even if "conceived" is a legitimate credit (as per my muddled remarks above under "created") surely the "conceiver" would have "conceived" the first series (that's what "conception" means) and therefore be duly credited for it during that series? I'm baffled - perhaps appropriately so given that we are discussing a TV show about deception and deceivers! Testbed 17:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC)Testbed
This article has not yet been rated on Wikipedia's
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It's fair enough to keep that section in if it adds information to the article and it comes from a citatble source. But I edited it to focus on the info it adds to what is already in the article because it was repeating stuff that was dealt with in the main text and also because Wikipedia text shouldn't just be a reproduction of the text of credits. I tagged it because it really needs a footnote specifying which edition the credits were taken from - they may well have differed from series to series and there may have been certain credits that only appeared on particular shows (although more likely related to acts rather than production team). If we're going to have credits info like this there's an argument that the article should also include the names of onscreen assistants who, if memory serves me right, also appeared in the credits. Circusandmagicfan 11:59, 18 March 2007 (UTC)Circusandmagicfan
Hi - this list is from the only copy of the programme I've got (the closing episode of the first series) and it would obviously be useful to compare with other tapes. However I have *not* edited the list in any way (i.e. that's all there is, so no credits to assistants or whatever). I thought this source more reliable than e.g. "memory" (from you or whoever, not pointing fingers!) or the BFI database (notorious for substandard entries, themselves drawn only from onscreen credits) - particularly as TV companies traditionally save the fullest list of credits for the last episode of a series. Also, at the time I first put the list in there was next to nothing in the entry, so it is somewhat strange for you to complain it repeats what was in the entry: so far as I can tell from the history it was you who removed the list and then used it to add things to the entry. Hope that clears things up! Testbed 14:02, 18 March 2007 (UTC)TestBed
All clear - thanks! The issues with the Drake entry itself seem a little more complicated - maybe you can join in as your work is helpfully in the spirit of W (unlike some of the edits which have been going on there) Testbed 18:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)TestBed
BTW where do you get the line about "praised by broadcasters" from? Is this private infomation, published material, or are you deducing it from the RTS nomination? If the last, then there is probably a better way of characterising things: RTS nominations are decided by the membership of the RTS, which includes broadcasters but also many other categories of people working in the television industry (I just spent some time looking at their website www.rts.org.uk which makes this clear) Testbed 14:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC)TestBed
Sounds fair (I like the way you've left it btw) Testbed 18:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)TestBed
Circusandmagicfan, having been away from the page for a while I see you have been working hard on sources - but have also put back the "created" claim, which has been in and out of the page a few times. You use this, anyway rather odd, word (are TV shows even "created"?) more than once, which seems to be over-egging things rather. However, more seriously, what's your source? When I looked out the old video of the show, there was no indication on the credits of any "creative" work by Drake - apart from being the star, of course (if you look back at the credit list I added, you can confirm this). I am pressing the point as I remain concerned about NPOV (e.g. unsourced "crowned heads of Europe" - joke - and of course that editor who tells you privately he's Drake’s brother but conceals the fact on his User page). Testbed 18:17, 21 April 2007 (UTC)Testbed
I've now done as promised above and looked out my (only) tape of Secret Cabaret to check the titles again. It is as I thought (and contributed to the page): there is *no* credit for Drake along the lines of "Conceived" - the only credits are the ones I listed at the time. So I question the way you have sourced this, and anyway question your using the strange credit twice within a short entry. My tape is from the first series so the whole business is even stranger: even if "conceived" is a legitimate credit (as per my muddled remarks above under "created") surely the "conceiver" would have "conceived" the first series (that's what "conception" means) and therefore be duly credited for it during that series? I'm baffled - perhaps appropriately so given that we are discussing a TV show about deception and deceivers! Testbed 17:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC)Testbed