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The title should be "The Scholars", but there's already a page by that name.
Xihe 12:34, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to move this page to Rulin waishi. All of the article's English-language sources use this title. The current title is from a 1972 translation. This translation is being vastly outsold by Wei Shang's Rulin waishi and Cultural Transformation in Late Imperial China (2003). As far as an English translation of the title goes, The Unofficial History of the Scholars (Shang's translation) is clearly superior to The Scholars. Nine Zulu queens ( talk) 07:00, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
Using pinyin for the page name but English in the article is odd and confusing. Adding to this, different Wikipedia pages use all three of the proposed titles. The Scholars seems to me the most reasonable title for the page and book. It meets four of the five criteria listed in WP:CRITERIA, whereas I don't think Rulin waishi is recognisable or natural (as the translation isn't titled that), and Unofficial History of the Scholars has those issues, is not concise, and is arguably original research.
Moreover, WP:NCB states that "For some books it cannot be determined, not even by educated guesswork, which version of the title is the most common. For these books, try to determine which of the widely spread versions of the book in the English-speaking world was the most authoritative original (that is, the version that contributed most to the book's becoming known in the English-speaking world), and stick to the title as it appeared on that edition." This must be the only English translation.
Generally I think @ CWH's arguments above are more convincing than Nine Zulu queens's, especially since a work of literature is by definition a source on itself (eg see WP:NOVELPLOT).
Therefore, I suggest moving the page title to The Scholars and changing the title on other Wikipedia pages. CohenTheBohemian ( talk) 05:20, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
Rulin waishi be
renamed and moved to
The Scholars (novel).
result: Move logs:
source title ·
target title
This is template {{
subst:Requested move/end}} |
Rulin waishi → The Scholars (novel) – I feel we should rename the page because this title would meet more of the page title criteria at WP:CRITERIA, and because WP:NCB states that if it's unclear what the most common title is, that page should be named after "the version that contributed most to the book's becoming known in the English-speaking world", which, in my opinion, is clearly the only English translation. "(novel)" is needed for disambiguation, but there are no other pages on novels with this title, so "(Chinese novel)" is unnecessary and overlong. CohenTheBohemian ( talk) 08:56, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
The title should be "The Scholars", but there's already a page by that name.
Xihe 12:34, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to move this page to Rulin waishi. All of the article's English-language sources use this title. The current title is from a 1972 translation. This translation is being vastly outsold by Wei Shang's Rulin waishi and Cultural Transformation in Late Imperial China (2003). As far as an English translation of the title goes, The Unofficial History of the Scholars (Shang's translation) is clearly superior to The Scholars. Nine Zulu queens ( talk) 07:00, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
Using pinyin for the page name but English in the article is odd and confusing. Adding to this, different Wikipedia pages use all three of the proposed titles. The Scholars seems to me the most reasonable title for the page and book. It meets four of the five criteria listed in WP:CRITERIA, whereas I don't think Rulin waishi is recognisable or natural (as the translation isn't titled that), and Unofficial History of the Scholars has those issues, is not concise, and is arguably original research.
Moreover, WP:NCB states that "For some books it cannot be determined, not even by educated guesswork, which version of the title is the most common. For these books, try to determine which of the widely spread versions of the book in the English-speaking world was the most authoritative original (that is, the version that contributed most to the book's becoming known in the English-speaking world), and stick to the title as it appeared on that edition." This must be the only English translation.
Generally I think @ CWH's arguments above are more convincing than Nine Zulu queens's, especially since a work of literature is by definition a source on itself (eg see WP:NOVELPLOT).
Therefore, I suggest moving the page title to The Scholars and changing the title on other Wikipedia pages. CohenTheBohemian ( talk) 05:20, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
Rulin waishi be
renamed and moved to
The Scholars (novel).
result: Move logs:
source title ·
target title
This is template {{
subst:Requested move/end}} |
Rulin waishi → The Scholars (novel) – I feel we should rename the page because this title would meet more of the page title criteria at WP:CRITERIA, and because WP:NCB states that if it's unclear what the most common title is, that page should be named after "the version that contributed most to the book's becoming known in the English-speaking world", which, in my opinion, is clearly the only English translation. "(novel)" is needed for disambiguation, but there are no other pages on novels with this title, so "(Chinese novel)" is unnecessary and overlong. CohenTheBohemian ( talk) 08:56, 15 May 2022 (UTC)