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I do not have the sources off-hand, but despite Frank’s recollections in his interviews, it’s likely that he joined the Soul Giants and reformed them into the Mothers in early 1965 (shortly after his March arrest) and not the oft-cited 1964. It should be noted that Frank often got years incorrect in interviews, such as his repeated assertion that the ‘’Freak Out!’’ album was recorded/released in 1965 (in actuality it was in the spring and summer of 1966). To further muddy the waters, he performed with an unrelated “ power trio” known as ‘The Muthers’ throughout 1964.
I think I read somewhere that the band reformed with past members from each incarnation of the Mothers of Invention, but had to change their name due to legal pressure from Gail Zappa. Grandmothers? Someone verify. -- Psycho78m 22:02, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
The Grandmothers formed in 1980 around the nucleus of Jimmy Carl Black, Bunk Gardner & Don Preston. I can't find any evidence that they tried to market themselves under the name, "the Mothers of Invention" at all, although it was no secret that they were former members of the MOI. However, Gail Zappa did sue them over the fact that they were advertised in some clubs as "The Grandmothers of Invention." Rather than go to court the band dropped "of Invention."
There is no evidence that the Grandmothers ever worked "for 5 years as a children's act," a patently ridiculous statement on the face of it.
Re: Gail Zappa: GZ has sued people in the past for "unauthorized" use of Frank Zappa's music and has engaged in battles with tribute bands. In 2004 she undertook a campaign against a Zappa tribute band called Project/Object, in which she phoned club owners who had booked Project/Object and threatened lawsuits if they let Project/Object play there. As a result Project/Object was deprived of a lot of work.
In my opinion Gail Zappa has done more harm to the Zappa legacy than good. She seems to have spent a considerable amount of money on lawsuits that are borderline frivolous (like her lawsuit against a Canadian furniture company that used a 10 sec. snippet of a Zappa guitar solo in one briefly run ad, a lawsuit that dragged on for years and netted her less than $100,000 by several reports). She also contributed heavily to Al Gore's losing presidential campaign, ironic considering that Frank Zappa's "The Mothers of Prevention" album targets Tipper Gore and the Parents Music Resource Center. (Happydog)
Frankly, I find it hard to believe that the original guitarist of this band is the same billionaire Ray Hunt who is linked. I am changing the link, if anyone has documentation that I am wrong, please reinstate the link. TheGoblin 19:07, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Someone has put him in as drummer, and written a brief somewhat strange article about him; John Swank. Is he for real? Or is this just a joke? -- HJ 21:46, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Alice was a member prior to the Mother's first album. See Alice's Wikipedia entry below: /info/en/?search=Alice_Stuart — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:603:4B80:1BC4:61D9:8FCE:6DCC:4E89 ( talk) 02:10, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
Anonymous user 148.244.235.250 removed several albums without comment from the discography. I have reverted the changes. I think the point of the removals has been to remove those albums which do not explicitly state "The Mothers" on the cover. For example, The Lost Episodes which nevertheless contains many tracks with line-ups that were known as "The Mothers". So a general discussion is in order: Should the discography only include albums where the name "The Mothers" (or "The Mothers of Invention") are explicit, or should it also include Frank Zappa works where line-ups are unmistakenly "The Mothers"?-- HJ 06:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
In 1970, Zappa created a new incarnation of The Mothers which inlcuded only one other original Mothers member, Don Preston. This 'new' lineup also featured British-born drummer Aynsley Dunbar (ex-John Mayall's Bluesbreakers), multi-instrumentalist Ian Underwood (keyboards, guitar, woodwind, vocals) and Ruth Underwood (marimba, vibes), who had joined the original Mothers for the recording of Uncle Meat in 1969.
There are some problems with this. One - the first 1970 Mothers lineup did not include Don Preston. He didn't tour and perform with this version of the Mothers until 1971. Ian Underwood, on the other hand, WAS an "original" Mother of Invetion (he's on Uncle Meat and toured with the Mothers in 1968-69). Ian also doesn't play guitar on any Zappa / Mothers recordings, and didn't play guitar in concert (is he, in fact, a guitar player at all?) Ruth Underwood played some percussion parts on Uncle Meat and plays drum set with the orchestra in 200 Motels, but she otherwise did not tour / perform with the Mothers until 1972 (Grand Wazoo tour) and didn't record with Zappa / Mothers until 1973 (Overnite Sensation).
George Duke (keyboards, trombone, vocals) first performed with Zappa in 1970 on 200 Motels and subsequently became a key member of the Zappa's mid-70s touring bands. New Mothers members included Jim Pons (bass), Bob Harris (keyboards, vocals), vocalists Howard Kaylan and Mark Volman (aka "The Phlorescent Leech & Eddie", former members of '60s pop group The Turtles),
This much is correct, though I would note that Bob Harris didn't get drafted into the Mothers until spring 1971.
and Jeff Simmons (bass, ex-Captain Beefheart), who performed only on 200 Motels.
Simmons was NOT in Beefheart's band - he did have a solo album to his credit, produced by Zappa and released on FZ's Straight Records label and was, prior to being in the Mothers, in a band called Easy Chair in his native Seattle, but he did NOT play with Beefheart. Also, Simmons doesn't even appear or perform on or in 200 Motels. However, he plays bass on a good chunk of the Chunga's Revenge LP (his only album credit with Zappa, IIRC) and does backing vocals on that album as well. Manufactured to Comply 17:05, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
I included a trivia section related to the Mothers of Invention with a link to Deep Purple's song Smoke on the Water in which Frank Zappa and The Mothers were referenced. It was redacted the next day. I'm asking why?
According to the article, the name "The Mothers" is short for "motherfuckers". The reference cited is Frank Zappa's autobiography. From what I recall, Zappa says in the book that the record company simply THOUGHT that the name was slang for "motherfuckers". I don't think Zappa ever acknowledged that they were correct, but I could be wrong. I suggest redacting this until it can be verified.
--MRP 21:50, 13 April 2008
I can verify, in an interview on youtube he mentions the name standing for motherfuckers which is also a slang term for a person who is good at playing their instrument however as you mentioned the radio had a problem with this and thus necessity gave the mothers of invention , as he put it.
Mothers of Invention wasn't a rock and roll band, at least mainly. It should be put as experimental rock. 83.148.246.254 ( talk) 09:59, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
An image used in this article,
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Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
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The photo in the infobox is of The Grandmothers, a Frank Zappa- Mothers of Invention spin-off, I feel is inappropriate. The article is about the Mothers of Invention, and contains no text sufficient even to move the photo down chronologically. The photos on the Wikipedia are there to reflect and enhance what is being said in the text of the article: WP:IMAGES. -- Leahtwosaints ( talk) 17:39, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
In fact, Mothers of Invention disbanded in 1976, but not in 1975. Last of the group was as follows: Zappa-Murphy Brock-Estrada-Lewis and Bozzio. Source - FZ Chronology and Book of Neil Slaven.-- Mmlov ( talk) 20:58, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
Today is April 6, 2016. I am going to clean up this page. There are many thing in the header that belong in the lower section -- below the TOC. If you have any input, please speak up. I will start in this weekend April 9, 2016. meatclerk ( talk) 15:20, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
Excellent to have a Mothers timeline, but at present it's too small and would need a wall-sized screen to be legible. Rothorpe ( talk) 04:02, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
Ray Collins has clearly stated in interviews that there was no fight which led to Zappa joining the band. The source for this information comes only from Zappa, who was not a party to the fight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.126.89.172 ( talk) 02:07, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
(I did not intend to implicate with the title that Zappa vs The Mothers of invention is the official name of the case, I do not know what it goes by. That is a "To Do".
In January 1985 Don Preston, Jimmy Carl Black and John "Bunk" Gardner filed a class action suit against Zappa for not paying any of the Mothers royalties from 1969. In 1987 at least Ian Underwood joined the suit as a plaintiff, according to the next news excerpt here: http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/notes/1985.html
The current revision of The Old Masters https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=The_Old_Masters&oldid=753357630 includes some other info about the lawsuit, with a reference. It claims the plaintiffs were later joined by Ray Collins, Art Tripp and Motorhead Sherwood.
This biography (by Eugene Chadbourne) of Jimmy Carl Black claims that the plaintiffs won, or maybe implies that there was a settlement favorable for the plaintiffs? - https://www.allmusic.com/artist/jimmy-carl-black-mn0000851533/biography
More info is needed, hopefully scans of official legal documents; but I do not know how to go about acquiring that ...
After there is a consistent story it should definitely go in the article, and also point to it from other pages, like Frank Zappa, Jimmy Carl Black, Don Preston, etc ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.149.61.139 ( talk) 02:48, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Zappa's band. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 August 24#Zappa's band until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. -- Tamzin cetacean needed (she/they) 23:02, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
I have added {{no redirect|Ralph Humphrey (drummer)|Ralph Humphrey}}
to the article. In a career playing with many other musicians, the 1½ years he spent with The Mothers represents him poorly. I plan to write the article replacing the redirect for
Ralph Humphrey (drummer) within a month. Until then, readers / editors can at least view the redirect that contains a link to the
Wikidata item that contains so much more about him. Who knows, perhaps that information will inspire another editor to create the article before I can get to it.
I believe that this is an instance in which WP:Ignore all rules clearly applies. Peaceray ( talk) 15:56, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
This article has not yet been rated on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I do not have the sources off-hand, but despite Frank’s recollections in his interviews, it’s likely that he joined the Soul Giants and reformed them into the Mothers in early 1965 (shortly after his March arrest) and not the oft-cited 1964. It should be noted that Frank often got years incorrect in interviews, such as his repeated assertion that the ‘’Freak Out!’’ album was recorded/released in 1965 (in actuality it was in the spring and summer of 1966). To further muddy the waters, he performed with an unrelated “ power trio” known as ‘The Muthers’ throughout 1964.
I think I read somewhere that the band reformed with past members from each incarnation of the Mothers of Invention, but had to change their name due to legal pressure from Gail Zappa. Grandmothers? Someone verify. -- Psycho78m 22:02, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
The Grandmothers formed in 1980 around the nucleus of Jimmy Carl Black, Bunk Gardner & Don Preston. I can't find any evidence that they tried to market themselves under the name, "the Mothers of Invention" at all, although it was no secret that they were former members of the MOI. However, Gail Zappa did sue them over the fact that they were advertised in some clubs as "The Grandmothers of Invention." Rather than go to court the band dropped "of Invention."
There is no evidence that the Grandmothers ever worked "for 5 years as a children's act," a patently ridiculous statement on the face of it.
Re: Gail Zappa: GZ has sued people in the past for "unauthorized" use of Frank Zappa's music and has engaged in battles with tribute bands. In 2004 she undertook a campaign against a Zappa tribute band called Project/Object, in which she phoned club owners who had booked Project/Object and threatened lawsuits if they let Project/Object play there. As a result Project/Object was deprived of a lot of work.
In my opinion Gail Zappa has done more harm to the Zappa legacy than good. She seems to have spent a considerable amount of money on lawsuits that are borderline frivolous (like her lawsuit against a Canadian furniture company that used a 10 sec. snippet of a Zappa guitar solo in one briefly run ad, a lawsuit that dragged on for years and netted her less than $100,000 by several reports). She also contributed heavily to Al Gore's losing presidential campaign, ironic considering that Frank Zappa's "The Mothers of Prevention" album targets Tipper Gore and the Parents Music Resource Center. (Happydog)
Frankly, I find it hard to believe that the original guitarist of this band is the same billionaire Ray Hunt who is linked. I am changing the link, if anyone has documentation that I am wrong, please reinstate the link. TheGoblin 19:07, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Someone has put him in as drummer, and written a brief somewhat strange article about him; John Swank. Is he for real? Or is this just a joke? -- HJ 21:46, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Alice was a member prior to the Mother's first album. See Alice's Wikipedia entry below: /info/en/?search=Alice_Stuart — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:603:4B80:1BC4:61D9:8FCE:6DCC:4E89 ( talk) 02:10, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
Anonymous user 148.244.235.250 removed several albums without comment from the discography. I have reverted the changes. I think the point of the removals has been to remove those albums which do not explicitly state "The Mothers" on the cover. For example, The Lost Episodes which nevertheless contains many tracks with line-ups that were known as "The Mothers". So a general discussion is in order: Should the discography only include albums where the name "The Mothers" (or "The Mothers of Invention") are explicit, or should it also include Frank Zappa works where line-ups are unmistakenly "The Mothers"?-- HJ 06:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
In 1970, Zappa created a new incarnation of The Mothers which inlcuded only one other original Mothers member, Don Preston. This 'new' lineup also featured British-born drummer Aynsley Dunbar (ex-John Mayall's Bluesbreakers), multi-instrumentalist Ian Underwood (keyboards, guitar, woodwind, vocals) and Ruth Underwood (marimba, vibes), who had joined the original Mothers for the recording of Uncle Meat in 1969.
There are some problems with this. One - the first 1970 Mothers lineup did not include Don Preston. He didn't tour and perform with this version of the Mothers until 1971. Ian Underwood, on the other hand, WAS an "original" Mother of Invetion (he's on Uncle Meat and toured with the Mothers in 1968-69). Ian also doesn't play guitar on any Zappa / Mothers recordings, and didn't play guitar in concert (is he, in fact, a guitar player at all?) Ruth Underwood played some percussion parts on Uncle Meat and plays drum set with the orchestra in 200 Motels, but she otherwise did not tour / perform with the Mothers until 1972 (Grand Wazoo tour) and didn't record with Zappa / Mothers until 1973 (Overnite Sensation).
George Duke (keyboards, trombone, vocals) first performed with Zappa in 1970 on 200 Motels and subsequently became a key member of the Zappa's mid-70s touring bands. New Mothers members included Jim Pons (bass), Bob Harris (keyboards, vocals), vocalists Howard Kaylan and Mark Volman (aka "The Phlorescent Leech & Eddie", former members of '60s pop group The Turtles),
This much is correct, though I would note that Bob Harris didn't get drafted into the Mothers until spring 1971.
and Jeff Simmons (bass, ex-Captain Beefheart), who performed only on 200 Motels.
Simmons was NOT in Beefheart's band - he did have a solo album to his credit, produced by Zappa and released on FZ's Straight Records label and was, prior to being in the Mothers, in a band called Easy Chair in his native Seattle, but he did NOT play with Beefheart. Also, Simmons doesn't even appear or perform on or in 200 Motels. However, he plays bass on a good chunk of the Chunga's Revenge LP (his only album credit with Zappa, IIRC) and does backing vocals on that album as well. Manufactured to Comply 17:05, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
I included a trivia section related to the Mothers of Invention with a link to Deep Purple's song Smoke on the Water in which Frank Zappa and The Mothers were referenced. It was redacted the next day. I'm asking why?
According to the article, the name "The Mothers" is short for "motherfuckers". The reference cited is Frank Zappa's autobiography. From what I recall, Zappa says in the book that the record company simply THOUGHT that the name was slang for "motherfuckers". I don't think Zappa ever acknowledged that they were correct, but I could be wrong. I suggest redacting this until it can be verified.
--MRP 21:50, 13 April 2008
I can verify, in an interview on youtube he mentions the name standing for motherfuckers which is also a slang term for a person who is good at playing their instrument however as you mentioned the radio had a problem with this and thus necessity gave the mothers of invention , as he put it.
Mothers of Invention wasn't a rock and roll band, at least mainly. It should be put as experimental rock. 83.148.246.254 ( talk) 09:59, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
An image used in this article,
File:The Mothers of Invention.png, has been nominated for speedy deletion at
Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 20:23, 5 January 2012 (UTC) |
The photo in the infobox is of The Grandmothers, a Frank Zappa- Mothers of Invention spin-off, I feel is inappropriate. The article is about the Mothers of Invention, and contains no text sufficient even to move the photo down chronologically. The photos on the Wikipedia are there to reflect and enhance what is being said in the text of the article: WP:IMAGES. -- Leahtwosaints ( talk) 17:39, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
In fact, Mothers of Invention disbanded in 1976, but not in 1975. Last of the group was as follows: Zappa-Murphy Brock-Estrada-Lewis and Bozzio. Source - FZ Chronology and Book of Neil Slaven.-- Mmlov ( talk) 20:58, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
Today is April 6, 2016. I am going to clean up this page. There are many thing in the header that belong in the lower section -- below the TOC. If you have any input, please speak up. I will start in this weekend April 9, 2016. meatclerk ( talk) 15:20, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
Excellent to have a Mothers timeline, but at present it's too small and would need a wall-sized screen to be legible. Rothorpe ( talk) 04:02, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
Ray Collins has clearly stated in interviews that there was no fight which led to Zappa joining the band. The source for this information comes only from Zappa, who was not a party to the fight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.126.89.172 ( talk) 02:07, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
(I did not intend to implicate with the title that Zappa vs The Mothers of invention is the official name of the case, I do not know what it goes by. That is a "To Do".
In January 1985 Don Preston, Jimmy Carl Black and John "Bunk" Gardner filed a class action suit against Zappa for not paying any of the Mothers royalties from 1969. In 1987 at least Ian Underwood joined the suit as a plaintiff, according to the next news excerpt here: http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/notes/1985.html
The current revision of The Old Masters https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=The_Old_Masters&oldid=753357630 includes some other info about the lawsuit, with a reference. It claims the plaintiffs were later joined by Ray Collins, Art Tripp and Motorhead Sherwood.
This biography (by Eugene Chadbourne) of Jimmy Carl Black claims that the plaintiffs won, or maybe implies that there was a settlement favorable for the plaintiffs? - https://www.allmusic.com/artist/jimmy-carl-black-mn0000851533/biography
More info is needed, hopefully scans of official legal documents; but I do not know how to go about acquiring that ...
After there is a consistent story it should definitely go in the article, and also point to it from other pages, like Frank Zappa, Jimmy Carl Black, Don Preston, etc ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.149.61.139 ( talk) 02:48, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Zappa's band. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 August 24#Zappa's band until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. -- Tamzin cetacean needed (she/they) 23:02, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
I have added {{no redirect|Ralph Humphrey (drummer)|Ralph Humphrey}}
to the article. In a career playing with many other musicians, the 1½ years he spent with The Mothers represents him poorly. I plan to write the article replacing the redirect for
Ralph Humphrey (drummer) within a month. Until then, readers / editors can at least view the redirect that contains a link to the
Wikidata item that contains so much more about him. Who knows, perhaps that information will inspire another editor to create the article before I can get to it.
I believe that this is an instance in which WP:Ignore all rules clearly applies. Peaceray ( talk) 15:56, 9 May 2024 (UTC)