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who put the expansion tag on, amd why? Bouncehoper 19:05, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Is this album really Diamond? The main Lauryn Hill page says that is only certified 8x platinum & a search on www.riaa.com says the same thing ...
Transcription using Google News Advanced News Archive Search. USA Today (Jones, Steve. 05.D. August 25, 1998) review of The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill (1998):
RAP: Lauryn Hill, The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill ( * * * * ). The 23-year-old Fugees star makes her solo debut, writing with strength and sensitivity on the joys and pains of love, dealing with hypocrites and false friends, and the trials of growing up. Infectious grooves percolate under warm, silky vocals or ear-popping raps; the whole album's a listening pleasure. Carlos Santana's guitar licks punctuate To Zion, an ode to (Lauryn) Hill's infant son, and Mary J. Blige lends sisterly support on the came-to-my-senses tale I Used to Love Him.
— Steve Jones
Dan56 ( talk) 01:14, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Should the bonus tracks like "Can't Take My Eyes Off of You", "Tell Him", and "Sweetest Thing (Mahogany Mix) " be listed? TeamMiseducation ( talk) 15:27, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
Sorry I meant should Sweetest Thing Mahogany Mix be added?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by TeamMiseducation ( talk • contribs) 15:28, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
I think this album is diamond because the RIAA states that it was 8x Platinum in 2002, which was over 8 years ago. You don't think it hasn't sold another 2 Million in 8 years? TeamMiseducation 06:16, 6 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by TeamMiseducation ( talk • contribs)
Correct. I think that it has sold another 2 Million in the US. I mean come on I just bought the record myself, Its the freakin Miseducation of Lauryn Hill. Does the RIAA keep a look on the record sells forever? TeamMiseducation 00:48, 8 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by TeamMiseducation ( talk • contribs)
Its up to the label to apply for certification. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.105.4.210 ( talk) 05:03, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm not trying to have edit wars with anyone, but I'm restoring reggae and gospel in the infobox for the following reasons: songs such as "Lost Ones," "Forgive Them Father," and "When It Hurts So Bad" clearly have reggae elements. Songs such as "To Zion" (most notably the gospel choir at the end), and the album's title track showcase gospel music, and songs such as "Final Hour," "Forgive Them Father," and the album's title track showcase gosepl content, and many Biblical references. There's even a sourced quote in the article by Hill herself which states "Gospel music is music inspired by the gospels. In a huge respect, a lot of this music turned out to be just that. During this album, I turned to the Bible and wrote songs that I drew comfort from." -- Blastmaster11 ( talk) 23:01, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
I was just going by what is stated in the genre section of Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums - "The one or more music genres that the album reflects, delimited by a comma should be listed here." Obviously an argument could be made that they're among the several genres that reflect this album ... and obviously an argument could be made that they are not. I suppose it isn't imperative that they be listed in the infobox, but I also don't see any harm in them being listed in the infobox either. -- Blastmaster11 ( talk) 20:38, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
I'm not saying that it's solely a reggae album, nor am I saying that it's solely a gospel album. Once again, I was just going by what is stated in the genre section of Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums - "The one or more music genres that the album reflects, delimited by a comma should be listed here." Just because the album failed to have success on the reggae and gospel charts doesn't automatically discredit their inclusion on the album. By the way, I doubt anyone is going to go out and purchase this album expecting it to be a "top reviewed reggae album" being that there's other genres listed right beside reggae in the infobox, and also, "top reviewed reggae album" isn't mentioned anywhere in the article. Reggae and gospel have been in the infbox for months now, so I don't understand why out of the blue there's a fuss over them. I'll remove them though since the majority wants them gone. -- Blastmaster11 ( talk) 21:59, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
I don't see a problem with you wanting to add Reggae and Gospel to the genres that are included in the album. It seems fine to me. TeamMiseducation 05:04, 20 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by TeamMiseducation ( talk • contribs)
I believe you're interpreting wikipedia's rules incorrectly. Like it says, "The one or more music genres that the album reflects should be listed. The album does not reflect gospel or reggae by any means since those genres do not make up a substantial portion of the album. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.105.4.210 ( talk) 05:11, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
There's clearly reggae elements in a number of songs, and Lauryn herself stated (above quote) that much of this album is gospel. Regardless, I actually agree with you that they "do not make up a substantial portion of the album" - you make a very solid point. But If you look at the end of my last comment in this section, I already removed reggae and gospel since the majority wanted them gone - this was almost six months ago, and we haven't had any problems with this issue since then. Thanks for your comment though. -- Blastmaster11 ( talk) 05:59, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the {{ Allmusic}} template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links:
-- CactusBot ( talk) 17:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
I propose the current ranking on the prestigious list of The Greatest Albums of All-Time as complied by Rolling Stone magazine be noted, superseding all older rankings. As of 2012 the ranking is #314. The new list is currently only available in print, but still a valid source.-- Joey.J ( talk) 01:06, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
Regarding whether Miseducation has sold 18 million worldwide ... In 2002-2003, there are several good sources (Columbia Records, Rolling Stone, Time) that place its worldwide sales at 12 million. Now Wikipedia comes along. This article gains this edit on December 23, 2007 that says "The albums has been certified diamond selling over 18 million copies worldwide". The first claim we know is false (it topped out at 8x platinum, not 10x) and the second claim is unsourced. It is really unlikely the record gained an additional 6 million sales during 2003-2008 (we know its U.S. sales did not increase that much during this time, since there was no additional certification). Any sources from 2008 on that give the 18 million number are possibly being lazy and just reproducing the Wikipedia number without being careful. Thus, we are in acute danger of citogenesis here. Wasted Time R ( talk) 13:00, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Sparklism ( talk · contribs) 18:53, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
Great album. This looks a pretty decent article at first glance - I'll add a detailed review below in the coming days. Good luck! — sparklism hey! 18:53, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
Just had a real quick skim through and noticed a couple of things:
I'll post a more detailed review soon. Thanks! — sparklism hey! 19:34, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Sorry this review is becoming slightly drawn out - I'm a bit busy IRL this week. I promise I'll get to do a proper detailed review in the next few days - thanks for your patience! — sparklism hey! 15:16, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
There's been a few back and forth edits with the original Pitchfork review of this album and the retrospective one in the review table. If this continues, let's first discuss this here before any edit warring. As for myself, I'm on the fence - on one hand it's worth noting the review/rating that was originally given, but then again it's worth noting if a publication gives a different one 18 years later. -- Blastmaster11 ( talk) 16:27, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
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The July 7 release date for "Doo Wop" can't be right. I researched 1998 Billboard magazine issues to find the correct date. Copying these notes that I made on the single's Talk page.
The song that was previously getting airplay when the album was released, August 25, was "Can't Take My Eyes Off of You".
The "Doo Wop" single was reviewed in the same issue as the album, Aug 29. The review states "this is the first official single from Hill's much-anticipated solo debut". This issue was also the first week that "Doo Wop" reached the R&B Airplay chart. However, this single was not for sale to the public. Billboard article in Nov 7 issue says 'After three months at radio, Lauryn Hill's "Doo Wop (That Thing)" (Ruffhouse /Columbia) is finally released at retail.' It was the Nov 14 issue where it debuted at #1 on the Hot 100.
RIAA Gold and Platinum site lists a release date for the single of Oct. 27. https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&se=Lauryn+Hill#search_section
I'm going to change the release date to Oct 27 on this page; I already changed the single's page. I have not been able to figure out how to make a cite for the RIAA page. PatConolly ( talk) 22:29, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
And now the wrong date is back again. Sigh. PatConolly ( talk) 22:35, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
I see the date for the single is now listed as "August 10", based on an article in the August 1 Billboard saying that it would be released (to radio only) on that date. That's more accurate than July 7 although I think the record company missed that date by a few days; otherwise it would have been reviewed before the August 29 issue. I wonder what exactly is defined as the "release date". The date the song is available to buy, or the date when it is available for radio stations to play (but not sell)? PatConolly ( talk) 07:47, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
@ Pillowdelight:, in reference to your last edit summary, there are reliable sources cited in the article framing the genres you've removed as dominant genres of this album. To quote a few, in "Critical reception," David Browne of Entertainment Weekly calls it "one of the rare hip-hop soul albums ...", while XXL says it reaffirms Hill's status as the "voice of a young, progressive hip-hop nation". Even more so, "hip hop" is declared in the same vein in Accolades and Reappraisal several times ("the first hip hop album..."; "Hip hop's 25 greatest albums...") There's no question reliable sources consider this album a hip-hop soul album, or a progressive rap album, or more generally a hip hop album, rather than just mere elements, as you phrased it. 𝒮𝒾𝓇 𝒯𝑒𝒻𝓁𝑜𝓃 ( talk | contribs) 14:27, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
I had previously removed the co and additional producers, Che Pope and Vada Nobles in the infobox due to the template only calling for main producers. But @ Blastmaster11: reverted it claiming that the lawsuit they had against her for not properly crediting them ended in their favor. But according to the Rolling Stone articles they only state it was settled out of court for a sum of $5 million. No where does it state they were granted producing/writing credits after the lawsuit was settled. I have tried explaining this to them on their talk page but they are still determined to have them included despite not providing any sources actually stating this. They provided the AllMusic review that does list additional production and being a producer for Vada Nobles and lists Che Pope only for programming. I can’t find any source actually stating they were granted credits. If I could please get other opinions on if they should be kept or removed I would very much appreciate it. Thank you. Pillowdelight ( talk) 02:45, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
This is the
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The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||
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Current status: Good article |
This
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who put the expansion tag on, amd why? Bouncehoper 19:05, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Is this album really Diamond? The main Lauryn Hill page says that is only certified 8x platinum & a search on www.riaa.com says the same thing ...
Transcription using Google News Advanced News Archive Search. USA Today (Jones, Steve. 05.D. August 25, 1998) review of The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill (1998):
RAP: Lauryn Hill, The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill ( * * * * ). The 23-year-old Fugees star makes her solo debut, writing with strength and sensitivity on the joys and pains of love, dealing with hypocrites and false friends, and the trials of growing up. Infectious grooves percolate under warm, silky vocals or ear-popping raps; the whole album's a listening pleasure. Carlos Santana's guitar licks punctuate To Zion, an ode to (Lauryn) Hill's infant son, and Mary J. Blige lends sisterly support on the came-to-my-senses tale I Used to Love Him.
— Steve Jones
Dan56 ( talk) 01:14, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Should the bonus tracks like "Can't Take My Eyes Off of You", "Tell Him", and "Sweetest Thing (Mahogany Mix) " be listed? TeamMiseducation ( talk) 15:27, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
Sorry I meant should Sweetest Thing Mahogany Mix be added?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by TeamMiseducation ( talk • contribs) 15:28, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
I think this album is diamond because the RIAA states that it was 8x Platinum in 2002, which was over 8 years ago. You don't think it hasn't sold another 2 Million in 8 years? TeamMiseducation 06:16, 6 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by TeamMiseducation ( talk • contribs)
Correct. I think that it has sold another 2 Million in the US. I mean come on I just bought the record myself, Its the freakin Miseducation of Lauryn Hill. Does the RIAA keep a look on the record sells forever? TeamMiseducation 00:48, 8 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by TeamMiseducation ( talk • contribs)
Its up to the label to apply for certification. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.105.4.210 ( talk) 05:03, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm not trying to have edit wars with anyone, but I'm restoring reggae and gospel in the infobox for the following reasons: songs such as "Lost Ones," "Forgive Them Father," and "When It Hurts So Bad" clearly have reggae elements. Songs such as "To Zion" (most notably the gospel choir at the end), and the album's title track showcase gospel music, and songs such as "Final Hour," "Forgive Them Father," and the album's title track showcase gosepl content, and many Biblical references. There's even a sourced quote in the article by Hill herself which states "Gospel music is music inspired by the gospels. In a huge respect, a lot of this music turned out to be just that. During this album, I turned to the Bible and wrote songs that I drew comfort from." -- Blastmaster11 ( talk) 23:01, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
I was just going by what is stated in the genre section of Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums - "The one or more music genres that the album reflects, delimited by a comma should be listed here." Obviously an argument could be made that they're among the several genres that reflect this album ... and obviously an argument could be made that they are not. I suppose it isn't imperative that they be listed in the infobox, but I also don't see any harm in them being listed in the infobox either. -- Blastmaster11 ( talk) 20:38, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
I'm not saying that it's solely a reggae album, nor am I saying that it's solely a gospel album. Once again, I was just going by what is stated in the genre section of Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums - "The one or more music genres that the album reflects, delimited by a comma should be listed here." Just because the album failed to have success on the reggae and gospel charts doesn't automatically discredit their inclusion on the album. By the way, I doubt anyone is going to go out and purchase this album expecting it to be a "top reviewed reggae album" being that there's other genres listed right beside reggae in the infobox, and also, "top reviewed reggae album" isn't mentioned anywhere in the article. Reggae and gospel have been in the infbox for months now, so I don't understand why out of the blue there's a fuss over them. I'll remove them though since the majority wants them gone. -- Blastmaster11 ( talk) 21:59, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
I don't see a problem with you wanting to add Reggae and Gospel to the genres that are included in the album. It seems fine to me. TeamMiseducation 05:04, 20 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by TeamMiseducation ( talk • contribs)
I believe you're interpreting wikipedia's rules incorrectly. Like it says, "The one or more music genres that the album reflects should be listed. The album does not reflect gospel or reggae by any means since those genres do not make up a substantial portion of the album. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.105.4.210 ( talk) 05:11, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
There's clearly reggae elements in a number of songs, and Lauryn herself stated (above quote) that much of this album is gospel. Regardless, I actually agree with you that they "do not make up a substantial portion of the album" - you make a very solid point. But If you look at the end of my last comment in this section, I already removed reggae and gospel since the majority wanted them gone - this was almost six months ago, and we haven't had any problems with this issue since then. Thanks for your comment though. -- Blastmaster11 ( talk) 05:59, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the {{ Allmusic}} template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links:
-- CactusBot ( talk) 17:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
I propose the current ranking on the prestigious list of The Greatest Albums of All-Time as complied by Rolling Stone magazine be noted, superseding all older rankings. As of 2012 the ranking is #314. The new list is currently only available in print, but still a valid source.-- Joey.J ( talk) 01:06, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
Regarding whether Miseducation has sold 18 million worldwide ... In 2002-2003, there are several good sources (Columbia Records, Rolling Stone, Time) that place its worldwide sales at 12 million. Now Wikipedia comes along. This article gains this edit on December 23, 2007 that says "The albums has been certified diamond selling over 18 million copies worldwide". The first claim we know is false (it topped out at 8x platinum, not 10x) and the second claim is unsourced. It is really unlikely the record gained an additional 6 million sales during 2003-2008 (we know its U.S. sales did not increase that much during this time, since there was no additional certification). Any sources from 2008 on that give the 18 million number are possibly being lazy and just reproducing the Wikipedia number without being careful. Thus, we are in acute danger of citogenesis here. Wasted Time R ( talk) 13:00, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Sparklism ( talk · contribs) 18:53, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
Great album. This looks a pretty decent article at first glance - I'll add a detailed review below in the coming days. Good luck! — sparklism hey! 18:53, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
Just had a real quick skim through and noticed a couple of things:
I'll post a more detailed review soon. Thanks! — sparklism hey! 19:34, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Sorry this review is becoming slightly drawn out - I'm a bit busy IRL this week. I promise I'll get to do a proper detailed review in the next few days - thanks for your patience! — sparklism hey! 15:16, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
There's been a few back and forth edits with the original Pitchfork review of this album and the retrospective one in the review table. If this continues, let's first discuss this here before any edit warring. As for myself, I'm on the fence - on one hand it's worth noting the review/rating that was originally given, but then again it's worth noting if a publication gives a different one 18 years later. -- Blastmaster11 ( talk) 16:27, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
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The July 7 release date for "Doo Wop" can't be right. I researched 1998 Billboard magazine issues to find the correct date. Copying these notes that I made on the single's Talk page.
The song that was previously getting airplay when the album was released, August 25, was "Can't Take My Eyes Off of You".
The "Doo Wop" single was reviewed in the same issue as the album, Aug 29. The review states "this is the first official single from Hill's much-anticipated solo debut". This issue was also the first week that "Doo Wop" reached the R&B Airplay chart. However, this single was not for sale to the public. Billboard article in Nov 7 issue says 'After three months at radio, Lauryn Hill's "Doo Wop (That Thing)" (Ruffhouse /Columbia) is finally released at retail.' It was the Nov 14 issue where it debuted at #1 on the Hot 100.
RIAA Gold and Platinum site lists a release date for the single of Oct. 27. https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&se=Lauryn+Hill#search_section
I'm going to change the release date to Oct 27 on this page; I already changed the single's page. I have not been able to figure out how to make a cite for the RIAA page. PatConolly ( talk) 22:29, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
And now the wrong date is back again. Sigh. PatConolly ( talk) 22:35, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
I see the date for the single is now listed as "August 10", based on an article in the August 1 Billboard saying that it would be released (to radio only) on that date. That's more accurate than July 7 although I think the record company missed that date by a few days; otherwise it would have been reviewed before the August 29 issue. I wonder what exactly is defined as the "release date". The date the song is available to buy, or the date when it is available for radio stations to play (but not sell)? PatConolly ( talk) 07:47, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
@ Pillowdelight:, in reference to your last edit summary, there are reliable sources cited in the article framing the genres you've removed as dominant genres of this album. To quote a few, in "Critical reception," David Browne of Entertainment Weekly calls it "one of the rare hip-hop soul albums ...", while XXL says it reaffirms Hill's status as the "voice of a young, progressive hip-hop nation". Even more so, "hip hop" is declared in the same vein in Accolades and Reappraisal several times ("the first hip hop album..."; "Hip hop's 25 greatest albums...") There's no question reliable sources consider this album a hip-hop soul album, or a progressive rap album, or more generally a hip hop album, rather than just mere elements, as you phrased it. 𝒮𝒾𝓇 𝒯𝑒𝒻𝓁𝑜𝓃 ( talk | contribs) 14:27, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
I had previously removed the co and additional producers, Che Pope and Vada Nobles in the infobox due to the template only calling for main producers. But @ Blastmaster11: reverted it claiming that the lawsuit they had against her for not properly crediting them ended in their favor. But according to the Rolling Stone articles they only state it was settled out of court for a sum of $5 million. No where does it state they were granted producing/writing credits after the lawsuit was settled. I have tried explaining this to them on their talk page but they are still determined to have them included despite not providing any sources actually stating this. They provided the AllMusic review that does list additional production and being a producer for Vada Nobles and lists Che Pope only for programming. I can’t find any source actually stating they were granted credits. If I could please get other opinions on if they should be kept or removed I would very much appreciate it. Thank you. Pillowdelight ( talk) 02:45, 2 August 2023 (UTC)