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I would like to discuss this entry in the main book description:
"Mainly the plot gives a flattering image of Christianity, but the Christians are not portrayed in a more favourable light than Muslims, Jews and pagans."
My impression was that the author slyly mocks Christianity. Most of the conversions take place under the influence of alcohol, the direct promise of material gain or the fact that if your King said you were now a Christian, it was unhealthy to your well-being to contradict him.
Indeed, Orm's building of a church was based on a promise he made if certain earthly issues were resolved in a way most beneficial to himself.
In the book, the Vikings seemed to treat Christianity in the same manner as they did their indigenous "pagan" beliefs. Whether you sacrificed a goat or built a church, the actions efficacy was judged by the material return visited upon the pleader.
There is a few weird statements in this section. For example this: "when Sweden's neighbors Denmark and Norway were occupied and quite a few Swedes tended to accommodate themselves to Nazi Germany in various ways".
This sentence makes it seem like there was some kind of general German support during WWII, which is frankly nonsense. The Nazis had their supporters in Sweden, just as everywhere else, but they were in no way close of being in majority. I think the sentence should be at least rewritten, and was there really any controverses in the contemporary Sweden about the Jew in the book? The part about Skåne is also errononeous, just as already mentioned. There has never been any attempts to hide its Danish origins. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.237.233.175 ( talk) 13:28, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
Given Bengtsson's ambition, referred to in the main article: "I just wanted to write a story that people could enjoy to read, like the Three Musketeers or the Odyssey", the political speculations in this talk page seem to be completely irrelevant. Rgds / Mkch ( talk) 17:45, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
During the Nazi occupation of Norway a Norwegian publisher approached Bengtsson with a proposal to get Red Orm translated into Norwegian. The proposal included suggestions to modify or delete certain phrases in the text. To this Bengtsson answered that "neither a comma nor a jew will be removed from my book, - - I refuse any translation of my writings into Norwegian until the present cretins and criminals have ceased publishing and also ceased all other activities." Rgds / Mkch ( talk) 22:06, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I disagree with the characterization of Toke. He is almost as intelligent as Orm is, when he is not rendered less clear-headed by drink (again, and again, and again) or by his desire to possess Harald Bluetooth's slave woman, Mirah. He is, if you care to notice, an accomplished poet, and he invents a method for the Viking raiders to storm the castle in Spain. Also notice that when Orm wants advice on how to proceed with the information provided by his brother, he summons Toke both because he trusts him (to an extreme degree) and because he values his counsel greatly (i.e. he acknowledges Toke as intelligent), and quite likely Orm summons Olof Butterfly (a more correct translation than the one given in "The Long Ships") more because of his knowledge of the East than because of his intelligence and wisdom, although obviously he trusts Olof (but, equally obviously, not as much as he trusts Toke).-- Peter Knutsen 01:52, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
We also need to add him. He does become a friend of Orm, throughout the novel. But it seems to me that early in the novel, he is referred to as Brother Willibald, then later it is Father Willibald, even though he has been a full Priest right from his first appearance. I'd just use Father, I think, once I get around to writing his entry.-- Peter Knutsen 02:42, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
No, I don't think so. The Jutes were a tribe in the dark ages (mid 1st millenium), distinct from the Danes, and by the 10th century the people living in Jutland are Danes. I think "men from Jutland", linking to the article on Jutland, would be much more appropriate, so I'll change it to that. If you disagree, revert back and explain why.-- Peter Knutsen 02:34, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I have a list of perhaps 25-30 novels that I really, really like, but this one probably goes near the top of the list, and I have read it many times. I have the newer English translation ("The Long Ships"), and a version in the Swedish original, and I can get the Danish translation from the library any time. So if anyone needs me to look something up, or need me to help with language issues in regards to this article, just ask. I want to help make this article even better than it already is!!-- Peter Knutsen 01:58, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I would just like to say how gratified I am to find that this book has so many fond admirers. My father gave it to me when I was 9 (I wanted to see the movie; he told me I should read the book first; after reading the book I found the movie appallingly bad and that was a useful lesson). It is still one of a small group of my favorite books, for reasons that I could go on about for pages. I read it again every now and then and I am never disappointed. Davidiank ( talk) 21:27, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
Is there any reason that the title in Afrikaans is especially mentioned? The best thing would to have a table of the title in all languages it has been translated to. If not, I suggest removing the Afrikaans title. Having just one foreign title makes it seem like something special, and I assume it's not. JdeJ ( talk) 21:27, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Can you say something about the poetry? Does it follow Norse forms? Does it follow Swedish forms? -- Error ( talk) 19:34, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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I would like to discuss this entry in the main book description:
"Mainly the plot gives a flattering image of Christianity, but the Christians are not portrayed in a more favourable light than Muslims, Jews and pagans."
My impression was that the author slyly mocks Christianity. Most of the conversions take place under the influence of alcohol, the direct promise of material gain or the fact that if your King said you were now a Christian, it was unhealthy to your well-being to contradict him.
Indeed, Orm's building of a church was based on a promise he made if certain earthly issues were resolved in a way most beneficial to himself.
In the book, the Vikings seemed to treat Christianity in the same manner as they did their indigenous "pagan" beliefs. Whether you sacrificed a goat or built a church, the actions efficacy was judged by the material return visited upon the pleader.
There is a few weird statements in this section. For example this: "when Sweden's neighbors Denmark and Norway were occupied and quite a few Swedes tended to accommodate themselves to Nazi Germany in various ways".
This sentence makes it seem like there was some kind of general German support during WWII, which is frankly nonsense. The Nazis had their supporters in Sweden, just as everywhere else, but they were in no way close of being in majority. I think the sentence should be at least rewritten, and was there really any controverses in the contemporary Sweden about the Jew in the book? The part about Skåne is also errononeous, just as already mentioned. There has never been any attempts to hide its Danish origins. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.237.233.175 ( talk) 13:28, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
Given Bengtsson's ambition, referred to in the main article: "I just wanted to write a story that people could enjoy to read, like the Three Musketeers or the Odyssey", the political speculations in this talk page seem to be completely irrelevant. Rgds / Mkch ( talk) 17:45, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
During the Nazi occupation of Norway a Norwegian publisher approached Bengtsson with a proposal to get Red Orm translated into Norwegian. The proposal included suggestions to modify or delete certain phrases in the text. To this Bengtsson answered that "neither a comma nor a jew will be removed from my book, - - I refuse any translation of my writings into Norwegian until the present cretins and criminals have ceased publishing and also ceased all other activities." Rgds / Mkch ( talk) 22:06, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I disagree with the characterization of Toke. He is almost as intelligent as Orm is, when he is not rendered less clear-headed by drink (again, and again, and again) or by his desire to possess Harald Bluetooth's slave woman, Mirah. He is, if you care to notice, an accomplished poet, and he invents a method for the Viking raiders to storm the castle in Spain. Also notice that when Orm wants advice on how to proceed with the information provided by his brother, he summons Toke both because he trusts him (to an extreme degree) and because he values his counsel greatly (i.e. he acknowledges Toke as intelligent), and quite likely Orm summons Olof Butterfly (a more correct translation than the one given in "The Long Ships") more because of his knowledge of the East than because of his intelligence and wisdom, although obviously he trusts Olof (but, equally obviously, not as much as he trusts Toke).-- Peter Knutsen 01:52, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
We also need to add him. He does become a friend of Orm, throughout the novel. But it seems to me that early in the novel, he is referred to as Brother Willibald, then later it is Father Willibald, even though he has been a full Priest right from his first appearance. I'd just use Father, I think, once I get around to writing his entry.-- Peter Knutsen 02:42, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
No, I don't think so. The Jutes were a tribe in the dark ages (mid 1st millenium), distinct from the Danes, and by the 10th century the people living in Jutland are Danes. I think "men from Jutland", linking to the article on Jutland, would be much more appropriate, so I'll change it to that. If you disagree, revert back and explain why.-- Peter Knutsen 02:34, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I have a list of perhaps 25-30 novels that I really, really like, but this one probably goes near the top of the list, and I have read it many times. I have the newer English translation ("The Long Ships"), and a version in the Swedish original, and I can get the Danish translation from the library any time. So if anyone needs me to look something up, or need me to help with language issues in regards to this article, just ask. I want to help make this article even better than it already is!!-- Peter Knutsen 01:58, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I would just like to say how gratified I am to find that this book has so many fond admirers. My father gave it to me when I was 9 (I wanted to see the movie; he told me I should read the book first; after reading the book I found the movie appallingly bad and that was a useful lesson). It is still one of a small group of my favorite books, for reasons that I could go on about for pages. I read it again every now and then and I am never disappointed. Davidiank ( talk) 21:27, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
Is there any reason that the title in Afrikaans is especially mentioned? The best thing would to have a table of the title in all languages it has been translated to. If not, I suggest removing the Afrikaans title. Having just one foreign title makes it seem like something special, and I assume it's not. JdeJ ( talk) 21:27, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Can you say something about the poetry? Does it follow Norse forms? Does it follow Swedish forms? -- Error ( talk) 19:34, 22 April 2020 (UTC)