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To the previous writer, thanks for the helpful edits. There was very little information in this entry, and I took my time getting the facts right. This was my first entry in Wikipedia. Hope I did all right. It was enjoyable. R. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.32.79.74 ( talk • contribs).
There's a few claims that such-and-such a song "sounds like", "is reminiscent of" etc. These statements could be seen as original research unless references are provided for them. Pawnkingthree ( talk) 16:16, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Could IP editor 24.99.154.165 please explain the following additions?
Now you might guess where these questions are heading. If the above opinions are your own, then they are not notable and not acceptable in the article. And if there are those of someone who is notable, then you need to cite them. Otherwise they'll continue to be removed. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 21:17, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
I removed the word "typically" because, in this context, it didn't change the meaning of the sentence -- one I originally wrote, along with most of the entry. The early Lennon song was written on the toilet according to Lennon.
I do not agree it is a matter of opinion that the song "I'm In Love" sounds remarkably Beatlesque. I think it's true, in terms of song construction, harmonic content, group harmonizing, lead singing, and instrumentation. The point I was making is that although the song sounded very much like The Beatles, it failed to chart in the U.S. That seems notable to me, not because I think it but because it's true that the song failed to chart in the U.S. and it's equally true that it sounds Beatlesque.
The bit about piggybacking on the Beatles' work was a recent edit written by someone else, but I think it's an accurate statement, not a disparaging one. The Fourmost began their career releasing as singles a couple songs written by John Lennon. After a few releases by other songwriters, and only one hit record, the group released another single from The Beatles catalog. I suppose the most neutral way of putting it would be to say the group released such and such a song. But that makes the entry sound like vanilla ice cream. Of course, that is only my opinion and some folks are partial to vanilla ice cream. When you talk about how giving an opinion is a no-no in this forum, I'd suggest a predominating percentage of "information" on Wikipedia is opinion masquerading as neutral fact.
R —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.154.165 ( talk) 23:26, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
R —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.154.165 ( talk) 14:50, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Jimmy Layne Webb is an American songwriter. From his initial success with "Up, Up, and Away," "By the Time I Get to Phoenix," "Wichita Lineman," "Galveston," and "MacArthur Park" to his solo albums, Webb has had an influence on popular songwriting.
This sounds like a very neutral statement, but it is, in fact, someone's opinion. As written, the sentence reads as if Webb's solo records have had an influence on popular songwriting. This isn't the case. Who says they were influenced by Webb's solo albums? Who says that Webb's well known songs have influenced popular songwriting? In what way? The fact is that Webb's harmonic vocabulary is fairly inimitible and while he is a terrific songwriter, it's difficult to think of other songwriters who have been influenced by him -- in much the same way that it is difficult to think of songwriters who have been harmonically influenced by Joni Mitchell.
According to BMI, his song "By the Time I Get to Phoenix" is the third most performed song in the last fifty years.[1]
This is incorrect. By The Time I Get To Phoenix is the 20th most performed song according to BMI, not the third. There is a footnote for this so-called neutral fact in the Wikipedia entry, and indeed the website it links to claims BTTIGTF is the third most performed song. But a look at BMI's website reveals it is 20th, not 3rd.
In 1969, Glen Campbell continued the streak of Jimmy Webb hits with the gold record "Galveston" and "Where's the Playground Susie," quickly becoming the finest interpreter of Jimmy Webb songs.
Who says that Glen Campbell is the finest interpreter of Jimmy Webb songs? There's nothing wrong with thinking that -- I think so too -- but isn't it just an opinion? Whose opinion? Isn't it unattirubted in this entry? Judy Collins did a remarkable job singing The Moon's A Harsh Mistress. What about her? Frank Sinatra is no slouch in the interpreting department. What about his rendition of Didn't We?
As the decade came to a close, so too did Jimmy Webb's string of hit singles.
This is nonsense. Webb's string of hit singles ended long before the end of the 70s, assuming that the inclusion of "string" indicates a series of hits. In fact, Webb continued having hits in the 80s.
Beginning in 1970, Jimmy Webb recorded six original albums of his own songs: Words and Music (1970), And So: On (1971), Letters (1972), Land's End (1974), El Mirage (1977), and Angel Heart (1982). Despite the critical reception that followed each of these projects, Webb would never prove to be as successful a performer as he had been a songwriter and arranger. Despite his limited singing ability, each album was noted for its inventive music and memorable lyrics.[17]
Webb's debut album as a performer, Words and Music, was released in late 1970 to critical acclaim.
This is poorly written. Webb's debut album is mentioned twice within two paragraphs, rather than once. Why? I could go on, I suppose, but the point is each sentence I've quoted here has the seeming impartiality you describe and appears to be neutral. In each case, the facts are wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.154.165 ( talk) 19:19, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
R —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.154.165 ( talk) 00:47, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
R —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.154.165 ( talk) 14:31, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
R —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.154.165 ( talk) 18:27, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
Bear in mind John Lennon gave the band their first two Beatles song hits, and The Fourmost (who opened shows for The Beatles and were on their 1963 Christmas show bill) were also produced by George Martin and managed by Brian Epstein up to 1967, so any 'piggybacking' re 'Here There And Everywhere' (issued on Parlophone) in 1966 was likely done with the full knowledge of The Beatles - Paul McCartney later played piano on and produced their 1968 single 'Rosetta' issued on CBS Records.
i went to see a group at a sixties festival in the uk a few weeks ago and they called themselves The Fourmost and whilst on stage they mentioned about recordings they had made in the sixties.
Now although this group were just about satisfactory in musicianship, i find out later that not one of them were in the original group and not one of them came from Liverpool and all of them were too young to have been anywhere the scene in the sixties.
I find this whole scam preposterous as the organisers proclaimed original bands.
I come on here to see if anyone else has been duped by these so called original sixties bands.
Its bordering on fraudulence and should be stopped. Tickets should not be sold to unsuspecting punters...disgraceful.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.182.109.14 ( talk) 15:12, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
I've just reverted a bunch of edits where references to the current band have all been removed. It would appear that someone disputes their right to be referred to as the same band. I, and Wikipedia, can only assume that the current band has legal ownership of the band name and are a continuation of the band. It's not up to us to decide otherwise. If there is a reliable sources that demonstrate otherwise, then we can consider the matter. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 10:12, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
Escape Orbit, please follow the Wikipedia rules. If you have a reliable source that the current band calling itself The Fourmost has legal ownership of the band name and are a continuation of the band, we will consider the matter. It's not up to us to decide otherwise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.8.87.136 ( talk) 18:51, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
If there is any issues with the cites added to this article, please explain them here. Reverting addition of sources and labelling it "vandalism" is both incorrect and also a breach of Wikipedia guidelines. Thanks. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 16:28, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
So there seems to be some dispute about Colin Walsh's past membership of this group. To summarise;
From this I suspect (ex)members and fans of the band are conducting a dispute on the Wikipedia article over what was apparently not an amicable split. So I would ask these people to take their argument elsewhere. Wikipedia does not re-write history to suit. The cites say that Colin Walsh was a member, so this is what Wikipedia will say until a better source demonstrates this to be inaccurate. If anyone has an sources that say otherwise, then please explain here. Thanks. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 14:47, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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To the previous writer, thanks for the helpful edits. There was very little information in this entry, and I took my time getting the facts right. This was my first entry in Wikipedia. Hope I did all right. It was enjoyable. R. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.32.79.74 ( talk • contribs).
There's a few claims that such-and-such a song "sounds like", "is reminiscent of" etc. These statements could be seen as original research unless references are provided for them. Pawnkingthree ( talk) 16:16, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Could IP editor 24.99.154.165 please explain the following additions?
Now you might guess where these questions are heading. If the above opinions are your own, then they are not notable and not acceptable in the article. And if there are those of someone who is notable, then you need to cite them. Otherwise they'll continue to be removed. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 21:17, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
I removed the word "typically" because, in this context, it didn't change the meaning of the sentence -- one I originally wrote, along with most of the entry. The early Lennon song was written on the toilet according to Lennon.
I do not agree it is a matter of opinion that the song "I'm In Love" sounds remarkably Beatlesque. I think it's true, in terms of song construction, harmonic content, group harmonizing, lead singing, and instrumentation. The point I was making is that although the song sounded very much like The Beatles, it failed to chart in the U.S. That seems notable to me, not because I think it but because it's true that the song failed to chart in the U.S. and it's equally true that it sounds Beatlesque.
The bit about piggybacking on the Beatles' work was a recent edit written by someone else, but I think it's an accurate statement, not a disparaging one. The Fourmost began their career releasing as singles a couple songs written by John Lennon. After a few releases by other songwriters, and only one hit record, the group released another single from The Beatles catalog. I suppose the most neutral way of putting it would be to say the group released such and such a song. But that makes the entry sound like vanilla ice cream. Of course, that is only my opinion and some folks are partial to vanilla ice cream. When you talk about how giving an opinion is a no-no in this forum, I'd suggest a predominating percentage of "information" on Wikipedia is opinion masquerading as neutral fact.
R —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.154.165 ( talk) 23:26, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
R —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.154.165 ( talk) 14:50, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Jimmy Layne Webb is an American songwriter. From his initial success with "Up, Up, and Away," "By the Time I Get to Phoenix," "Wichita Lineman," "Galveston," and "MacArthur Park" to his solo albums, Webb has had an influence on popular songwriting.
This sounds like a very neutral statement, but it is, in fact, someone's opinion. As written, the sentence reads as if Webb's solo records have had an influence on popular songwriting. This isn't the case. Who says they were influenced by Webb's solo albums? Who says that Webb's well known songs have influenced popular songwriting? In what way? The fact is that Webb's harmonic vocabulary is fairly inimitible and while he is a terrific songwriter, it's difficult to think of other songwriters who have been influenced by him -- in much the same way that it is difficult to think of songwriters who have been harmonically influenced by Joni Mitchell.
According to BMI, his song "By the Time I Get to Phoenix" is the third most performed song in the last fifty years.[1]
This is incorrect. By The Time I Get To Phoenix is the 20th most performed song according to BMI, not the third. There is a footnote for this so-called neutral fact in the Wikipedia entry, and indeed the website it links to claims BTTIGTF is the third most performed song. But a look at BMI's website reveals it is 20th, not 3rd.
In 1969, Glen Campbell continued the streak of Jimmy Webb hits with the gold record "Galveston" and "Where's the Playground Susie," quickly becoming the finest interpreter of Jimmy Webb songs.
Who says that Glen Campbell is the finest interpreter of Jimmy Webb songs? There's nothing wrong with thinking that -- I think so too -- but isn't it just an opinion? Whose opinion? Isn't it unattirubted in this entry? Judy Collins did a remarkable job singing The Moon's A Harsh Mistress. What about her? Frank Sinatra is no slouch in the interpreting department. What about his rendition of Didn't We?
As the decade came to a close, so too did Jimmy Webb's string of hit singles.
This is nonsense. Webb's string of hit singles ended long before the end of the 70s, assuming that the inclusion of "string" indicates a series of hits. In fact, Webb continued having hits in the 80s.
Beginning in 1970, Jimmy Webb recorded six original albums of his own songs: Words and Music (1970), And So: On (1971), Letters (1972), Land's End (1974), El Mirage (1977), and Angel Heart (1982). Despite the critical reception that followed each of these projects, Webb would never prove to be as successful a performer as he had been a songwriter and arranger. Despite his limited singing ability, each album was noted for its inventive music and memorable lyrics.[17]
Webb's debut album as a performer, Words and Music, was released in late 1970 to critical acclaim.
This is poorly written. Webb's debut album is mentioned twice within two paragraphs, rather than once. Why? I could go on, I suppose, but the point is each sentence I've quoted here has the seeming impartiality you describe and appears to be neutral. In each case, the facts are wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.154.165 ( talk) 19:19, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
R —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.154.165 ( talk) 00:47, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
R —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.154.165 ( talk) 14:31, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
R —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.154.165 ( talk) 18:27, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
Bear in mind John Lennon gave the band their first two Beatles song hits, and The Fourmost (who opened shows for The Beatles and were on their 1963 Christmas show bill) were also produced by George Martin and managed by Brian Epstein up to 1967, so any 'piggybacking' re 'Here There And Everywhere' (issued on Parlophone) in 1966 was likely done with the full knowledge of The Beatles - Paul McCartney later played piano on and produced their 1968 single 'Rosetta' issued on CBS Records.
i went to see a group at a sixties festival in the uk a few weeks ago and they called themselves The Fourmost and whilst on stage they mentioned about recordings they had made in the sixties.
Now although this group were just about satisfactory in musicianship, i find out later that not one of them were in the original group and not one of them came from Liverpool and all of them were too young to have been anywhere the scene in the sixties.
I find this whole scam preposterous as the organisers proclaimed original bands.
I come on here to see if anyone else has been duped by these so called original sixties bands.
Its bordering on fraudulence and should be stopped. Tickets should not be sold to unsuspecting punters...disgraceful.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.182.109.14 ( talk) 15:12, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
I've just reverted a bunch of edits where references to the current band have all been removed. It would appear that someone disputes their right to be referred to as the same band. I, and Wikipedia, can only assume that the current band has legal ownership of the band name and are a continuation of the band. It's not up to us to decide otherwise. If there is a reliable sources that demonstrate otherwise, then we can consider the matter. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 10:12, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
Escape Orbit, please follow the Wikipedia rules. If you have a reliable source that the current band calling itself The Fourmost has legal ownership of the band name and are a continuation of the band, we will consider the matter. It's not up to us to decide otherwise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.8.87.136 ( talk) 18:51, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
If there is any issues with the cites added to this article, please explain them here. Reverting addition of sources and labelling it "vandalism" is both incorrect and also a breach of Wikipedia guidelines. Thanks. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 16:28, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
So there seems to be some dispute about Colin Walsh's past membership of this group. To summarise;
From this I suspect (ex)members and fans of the band are conducting a dispute on the Wikipedia article over what was apparently not an amicable split. So I would ask these people to take their argument elsewhere. Wikipedia does not re-write history to suit. The cites say that Colin Walsh was a member, so this is what Wikipedia will say until a better source demonstrates this to be inaccurate. If anyone has an sources that say otherwise, then please explain here. Thanks. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 14:47, 28 December 2019 (UTC)