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Tried to some major updates to the main page which was just a cluttered mess. I think the problem with Bolan is that the series has such a large universe that things tend to get a bit messy. My ideas to improve on this:
Moore2014 ( talk) 06:11, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page.
Comment: This is a rather stupid comment. Of course the references are going to be from primary sources. The article is about a series of books. Where else would references and information come from? There is very little information out on their on this topic from independent authors and third-party publications. This is the whole point of Wikipedia. I think the administrators somehow loose site of this fact. Suggest this be deleted as serves no useful purpose other than stating the obvious.
Comment: Disagree with this statement as well. The article describes facts about the subject. I don't think readers that do not have any notion about the series will NOT understand what is being conveyed. In-Universe implies that only those familiar with the series will understand what is going on.
Comment: This states an "opinion" what is too long or excessive? It seems to me that an encyclopedia should summarize a subject for those unfamiliar with the details. The length of an article is dependent upon the familiarization of the subject. The less familiar to the general public the more details are needed.
Comment: Someone will need to explain why prose would be a better presentation style than list. FrankWilliams ( talk) 18:07, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
Although the information on Calvin James was good and complete, it was a bit long. All the other team members have short synopsis on them and Calvin James should not be any different. Also, added a "New Members" section within Phoenix Force to distinguish from the founding members. If anyone objects let's discuss. FrankWilliams 14:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
The disambiguator "paperback" is somewhat inappropriate since this article is not about one book -- in fact it is about a literary franchise. I have therefore moved the article. I also suggest that in the near future the individual series of books be split up into articles of their own. 23skidoo 13:10, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. I initially started the article for just the "Executioner" franchise. However, because there was very little with regards to the spinoff series as other articles, I added it since it was related and because the executioner stories are so intermingled with the spin-off series. I think ideally there should be an article for "Phoenix Force" and "Able Team". The info in the executioner article should remain as a way of tying all three franchises together. FrankWilliams 14:07, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
I created a Phoenix Force article with the proper links. They along with Able Team can continue to grow while the executioner article can serve as a place that ties all three franchies together with minimal edits and changes to the Phoenix Force and Able Team paragraphs. FrankWilliams 14:31, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
The list is waaay too long. Why not just link to the relevant lists on MackBolan.com? - KingRaptor 09:49, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Agreed that the list is long; however wiki articles should be self enclosed. If a link goes down the list is unavailabe. Also, just in principle most of the information in wiki is "Somewhere" why not just link everything. :) Seriously, this is why the list is at the end; that way users who are not interested don't have to scroll through. FrankWilliams 13:24, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
"Mack Bolan was simply a man who could command himself." – Don Pendleton, War Against the Mafia
"There are men, wrote Aristotle, so godlike, so exceptional, that they naturally, by right of their extraordinary gifts, transcend all moral judgment or constitutional control: 'There is no law which embraces men of that calibre: they are themselves law.'" Hughes-Hallett, Lucy. Heroes. Alfred A. Knopf, 2004.
I have added the citations missing template to the article. Other then citations for 3 aliases he uses in one of the hundreds of books, it is currently unreferenced. Proper, inline citations need to be added for the article to carry proper encyclopedic value. Also, citations from secondary sources need to be added as well, as citing the books is not quite enough (see WP:FICT). For an article on such a notable book series this desperatly needs to be fixed. I know for a fact there are many Don Pendleton interviews transcribed on the internet, along with many other secondary and tertiary sources that can be used. I will try to help cleanup the article as well, but this is something that is going to take more then just my involvement, as I have not read any of the books in years. Any help by fellow editors would be greatly appreciated. It also may be a good idea to merge in the Mack Bolan article. I believe there is little a seperate article can add as the character is tied so specifically to the series of books and vice versa. That article is also in desperate need of repair, and does not appear salvageable in it's current state.
Iarann 08:46, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
In the series listing, alongside the 39th title we find this: "taken over by an anonymous team of writers as 'Don Pendleton's Mack Bolan'". There are several problems with this. First and most significant, there was from #39 until some time after I quit buying on a regular basis (if it did in fact ever stop appearing) a note on the reverse of the title page, above the copyright info, reading, "Thanks to [name] for his special contributions to this work" or extremely similar words, and there was never any doubt in my mind that this was whoever actually wrote the thing. The early Gold Eagle titles were packaged as "Mack Bolan The Executioner," a stylized logo, and the novel's title bylined "by Don Pendleton." The first three titles in the ABLE Team and Phoenix Force side series had Pendleton's name above the real writer in the byline, too. This can in fact be seen in the repros of the covers of those series' respective first entries here. Beginning with #48 of the regular series, Pendleton's name was reduced to a blurb, "Based on the character created by...." Only as of #54 is it rendered in the possessive described in the article (all this via cover scans at mackbolan.com—truly linked at the bottom of the article—which also identifies the supposedly "anonymous" writers of each and every book). I feel the article needs to be revised relevant to these particulars.
All this aside, I feel there should be some acknowledgement of Pinnacle's The Executioner's War Book, beyond being cited as a source three times. And the listings should also make clear that #63, The New War Book, is not a novel but does for the Gold Eagle entries what the above did for the Pinnacle series. Just because the earlier volume does not carry a number within the regular series sequence does not mean it is less a part of the series than the later one. Ted Watson ( talk) 20:15, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
After making minor edits to the above, I glanced at the article and saw that most had been implemented, but now the three references to the original War Book volume have been changed to the 'New' one, retaining Pinnacle as publisher. Not right, as these are indeed two separate but similarly formatted books. For that, I don't need to wait for somebody else. -- Ted Watson ( talk) 22:53, 1 November 2008 (UTC) (actually about 22:00)
Anybody think adding a complete list of characters from the Mob Wars, as a separate page, is worthwhile? (I've got my copy of the Warbook in front of me...) And, any suggestions for how much detail on it to add? I'm planning a substantial expansion of the section on that basis. (When I get my collection out of storage, I'll do the pages on the individual books.) TREKphiler hit me ♠ 05:22, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
Having introduced Petersen, I now think putting it in was a mistake, & so deleted this:
It was, at best, wrongly placed in the Wars section. It seems to me better included on Pendleton's own page. If not, a "legal issues" section here. In either case, with (if possible) more details of the dispute. Thoughts? TREKphiler hit me ♠ 17:22, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
'"originally intended'": Check The Executioner's War Book, frequently cited in the article, and you'll find a section reproducing letters Pendleton received from fans over the years with the responses he wrote back. In one of them, he talks of the situation here, saying he was considering titling the "upcoming" book Sicilian Slaughter or Sicilian Safari. He definitely intended Mack to go to Italy after Philly; (but dropped that when Pinnacle's ghost used it; "skip Sicily entirely and miss nothing" was precisely Don's idea. I think the reason the next dozen or so entries are essentially self-contained is so that sort of thing couldn't happen again—all synthesis, I admit).
By "flatly and no elaboration" I meant that Don said absolutely nothing beyond noting Petersen was a pseudonym; he gave no hint that he had any idea he knew who was behind it. I always felt it was chosen because it was vaguely similar to "Don Pendleton" (but then wouldn't the first name have been "Dan" or "Dave"?) and would guess that it was probably never used again.
"inserted": No idea what you're talking about here. Sorry.
"contract issues around the time of Command Strike": Actually, the situation looks exactly the opposite to me. Strike was the last of a trilogy, and it was immediately preceded by War Book (that volume strongly suggests—at least to my way of thinking—that Pinnacle and Don were on reasonably good terms at that point). Furthermore, as you say, Pendleton could have wrapped up the Mafia Wars right then if he had wanted to. Instead, he has Bolan fighting a weakened mob for two books, then sets up his "second 'last mile'" with Tennessee Smash. My only regret here is that when somebody reminded Pendleton that "Hondo" Harrelson (IIRC) and his mercenaries (from Colorado Kill-Zone) were still out there somewhere, it was a second trip to my native Texas (judging from dialogue) that got dropped to make room for that rematch. -- Ted Watson ( talk) 23:31, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
As the above discussion is now one and a half years old, I reopen it—to one point only—this way. In the original post, TREKphiler suggested that the passage he had removed might justify a "Legal issues" section here. As the suit was about the Executioner series and nothing else, I feel discussion of the situation is quite germaine to this article, even more than to the one on Pendleton. However, as I implied in the above (yes, the other guy is me; I was led by the sign up mechanism to put a different name for my talk page signature from my edit history log entries) I no longer have a copy of the magazine with Kraft's interview of Pendleton. It never got mentioned here, but Pendleton told Kraft he totally lost at trial despite having all the necessary evidence. Why Pinnacle subsequently agreed to a settlement so diametrically opposed to the court judgement is beyond me, and Don merely said that it happened. To add such a section here would definitely require getting things precisely right from that interview (a copy of the original War Book would probably help as well). Can someone do that? -- Tbrittreid ( talk) 22:06, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
References
Looking at Klingman & Marinello, I was wondering if there's evidence they, & others, were based (even loosely) on real people. It strikes me Klingman could be Boone Pickens or Ross Perot, Marinello seems to've been inspired by the same person as Vito Corleone, & there are others I suspect might be, too. Thoughts? Did Pendleton ever say anything about it? TREKphiler hit me ♠ 18:28, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Please note that this article's infobox is retrieving an ISBN from Wikidata currently. This is the result of a change made to {{ Infobox book}} as a result of this RfC. It would be appreciated if an editor took some time to review this ISBN to ensure it is appropriate for the infobox. If it is not, you could consider either correcting the ISBN on Wikidata (preferred) or introducing a blank ISBN parameter in the infobox to block the retrieval from Wikidata. If you do review the ISBN, please respond here so other editors don't duplicate your work. This is an automated message to address concerns that this change did not show up on watchlists. ~ Rob Talk 01:22, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
I'm sort of joking, but not really. I read Don Pendelton's original 36 or 37 installments, whatever the number was, one by one as they were released. 2600:8801:BE31:D300:4CBA:538B:D24B:9F03 ( talk) 19:12, 23 December 2021 (UTC) JJE
The infobox says "Publication date: 1969–present", but the article text says "464 novels (as of December 2020 when the series ended)". Rob Kelk 15:17, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
Tried to some major updates to the main page which was just a cluttered mess. I think the problem with Bolan is that the series has such a large universe that things tend to get a bit messy. My ideas to improve on this:
Moore2014 ( talk) 06:11, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page.
Comment: This is a rather stupid comment. Of course the references are going to be from primary sources. The article is about a series of books. Where else would references and information come from? There is very little information out on their on this topic from independent authors and third-party publications. This is the whole point of Wikipedia. I think the administrators somehow loose site of this fact. Suggest this be deleted as serves no useful purpose other than stating the obvious.
Comment: Disagree with this statement as well. The article describes facts about the subject. I don't think readers that do not have any notion about the series will NOT understand what is being conveyed. In-Universe implies that only those familiar with the series will understand what is going on.
Comment: This states an "opinion" what is too long or excessive? It seems to me that an encyclopedia should summarize a subject for those unfamiliar with the details. The length of an article is dependent upon the familiarization of the subject. The less familiar to the general public the more details are needed.
Comment: Someone will need to explain why prose would be a better presentation style than list. FrankWilliams ( talk) 18:07, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
Although the information on Calvin James was good and complete, it was a bit long. All the other team members have short synopsis on them and Calvin James should not be any different. Also, added a "New Members" section within Phoenix Force to distinguish from the founding members. If anyone objects let's discuss. FrankWilliams 14:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
The disambiguator "paperback" is somewhat inappropriate since this article is not about one book -- in fact it is about a literary franchise. I have therefore moved the article. I also suggest that in the near future the individual series of books be split up into articles of their own. 23skidoo 13:10, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. I initially started the article for just the "Executioner" franchise. However, because there was very little with regards to the spinoff series as other articles, I added it since it was related and because the executioner stories are so intermingled with the spin-off series. I think ideally there should be an article for "Phoenix Force" and "Able Team". The info in the executioner article should remain as a way of tying all three franchises together. FrankWilliams 14:07, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
I created a Phoenix Force article with the proper links. They along with Able Team can continue to grow while the executioner article can serve as a place that ties all three franchies together with minimal edits and changes to the Phoenix Force and Able Team paragraphs. FrankWilliams 14:31, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
The list is waaay too long. Why not just link to the relevant lists on MackBolan.com? - KingRaptor 09:49, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Agreed that the list is long; however wiki articles should be self enclosed. If a link goes down the list is unavailabe. Also, just in principle most of the information in wiki is "Somewhere" why not just link everything. :) Seriously, this is why the list is at the end; that way users who are not interested don't have to scroll through. FrankWilliams 13:24, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
"Mack Bolan was simply a man who could command himself." – Don Pendleton, War Against the Mafia
"There are men, wrote Aristotle, so godlike, so exceptional, that they naturally, by right of their extraordinary gifts, transcend all moral judgment or constitutional control: 'There is no law which embraces men of that calibre: they are themselves law.'" Hughes-Hallett, Lucy. Heroes. Alfred A. Knopf, 2004.
I have added the citations missing template to the article. Other then citations for 3 aliases he uses in one of the hundreds of books, it is currently unreferenced. Proper, inline citations need to be added for the article to carry proper encyclopedic value. Also, citations from secondary sources need to be added as well, as citing the books is not quite enough (see WP:FICT). For an article on such a notable book series this desperatly needs to be fixed. I know for a fact there are many Don Pendleton interviews transcribed on the internet, along with many other secondary and tertiary sources that can be used. I will try to help cleanup the article as well, but this is something that is going to take more then just my involvement, as I have not read any of the books in years. Any help by fellow editors would be greatly appreciated. It also may be a good idea to merge in the Mack Bolan article. I believe there is little a seperate article can add as the character is tied so specifically to the series of books and vice versa. That article is also in desperate need of repair, and does not appear salvageable in it's current state.
Iarann 08:46, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
In the series listing, alongside the 39th title we find this: "taken over by an anonymous team of writers as 'Don Pendleton's Mack Bolan'". There are several problems with this. First and most significant, there was from #39 until some time after I quit buying on a regular basis (if it did in fact ever stop appearing) a note on the reverse of the title page, above the copyright info, reading, "Thanks to [name] for his special contributions to this work" or extremely similar words, and there was never any doubt in my mind that this was whoever actually wrote the thing. The early Gold Eagle titles were packaged as "Mack Bolan The Executioner," a stylized logo, and the novel's title bylined "by Don Pendleton." The first three titles in the ABLE Team and Phoenix Force side series had Pendleton's name above the real writer in the byline, too. This can in fact be seen in the repros of the covers of those series' respective first entries here. Beginning with #48 of the regular series, Pendleton's name was reduced to a blurb, "Based on the character created by...." Only as of #54 is it rendered in the possessive described in the article (all this via cover scans at mackbolan.com—truly linked at the bottom of the article—which also identifies the supposedly "anonymous" writers of each and every book). I feel the article needs to be revised relevant to these particulars.
All this aside, I feel there should be some acknowledgement of Pinnacle's The Executioner's War Book, beyond being cited as a source three times. And the listings should also make clear that #63, The New War Book, is not a novel but does for the Gold Eagle entries what the above did for the Pinnacle series. Just because the earlier volume does not carry a number within the regular series sequence does not mean it is less a part of the series than the later one. Ted Watson ( talk) 20:15, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
After making minor edits to the above, I glanced at the article and saw that most had been implemented, but now the three references to the original War Book volume have been changed to the 'New' one, retaining Pinnacle as publisher. Not right, as these are indeed two separate but similarly formatted books. For that, I don't need to wait for somebody else. -- Ted Watson ( talk) 22:53, 1 November 2008 (UTC) (actually about 22:00)
Anybody think adding a complete list of characters from the Mob Wars, as a separate page, is worthwhile? (I've got my copy of the Warbook in front of me...) And, any suggestions for how much detail on it to add? I'm planning a substantial expansion of the section on that basis. (When I get my collection out of storage, I'll do the pages on the individual books.) TREKphiler hit me ♠ 05:22, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
Having introduced Petersen, I now think putting it in was a mistake, & so deleted this:
It was, at best, wrongly placed in the Wars section. It seems to me better included on Pendleton's own page. If not, a "legal issues" section here. In either case, with (if possible) more details of the dispute. Thoughts? TREKphiler hit me ♠ 17:22, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
'"originally intended'": Check The Executioner's War Book, frequently cited in the article, and you'll find a section reproducing letters Pendleton received from fans over the years with the responses he wrote back. In one of them, he talks of the situation here, saying he was considering titling the "upcoming" book Sicilian Slaughter or Sicilian Safari. He definitely intended Mack to go to Italy after Philly; (but dropped that when Pinnacle's ghost used it; "skip Sicily entirely and miss nothing" was precisely Don's idea. I think the reason the next dozen or so entries are essentially self-contained is so that sort of thing couldn't happen again—all synthesis, I admit).
By "flatly and no elaboration" I meant that Don said absolutely nothing beyond noting Petersen was a pseudonym; he gave no hint that he had any idea he knew who was behind it. I always felt it was chosen because it was vaguely similar to "Don Pendleton" (but then wouldn't the first name have been "Dan" or "Dave"?) and would guess that it was probably never used again.
"inserted": No idea what you're talking about here. Sorry.
"contract issues around the time of Command Strike": Actually, the situation looks exactly the opposite to me. Strike was the last of a trilogy, and it was immediately preceded by War Book (that volume strongly suggests—at least to my way of thinking—that Pinnacle and Don were on reasonably good terms at that point). Furthermore, as you say, Pendleton could have wrapped up the Mafia Wars right then if he had wanted to. Instead, he has Bolan fighting a weakened mob for two books, then sets up his "second 'last mile'" with Tennessee Smash. My only regret here is that when somebody reminded Pendleton that "Hondo" Harrelson (IIRC) and his mercenaries (from Colorado Kill-Zone) were still out there somewhere, it was a second trip to my native Texas (judging from dialogue) that got dropped to make room for that rematch. -- Ted Watson ( talk) 23:31, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
As the above discussion is now one and a half years old, I reopen it—to one point only—this way. In the original post, TREKphiler suggested that the passage he had removed might justify a "Legal issues" section here. As the suit was about the Executioner series and nothing else, I feel discussion of the situation is quite germaine to this article, even more than to the one on Pendleton. However, as I implied in the above (yes, the other guy is me; I was led by the sign up mechanism to put a different name for my talk page signature from my edit history log entries) I no longer have a copy of the magazine with Kraft's interview of Pendleton. It never got mentioned here, but Pendleton told Kraft he totally lost at trial despite having all the necessary evidence. Why Pinnacle subsequently agreed to a settlement so diametrically opposed to the court judgement is beyond me, and Don merely said that it happened. To add such a section here would definitely require getting things precisely right from that interview (a copy of the original War Book would probably help as well). Can someone do that? -- Tbrittreid ( talk) 22:06, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
References
Looking at Klingman & Marinello, I was wondering if there's evidence they, & others, were based (even loosely) on real people. It strikes me Klingman could be Boone Pickens or Ross Perot, Marinello seems to've been inspired by the same person as Vito Corleone, & there are others I suspect might be, too. Thoughts? Did Pendleton ever say anything about it? TREKphiler hit me ♠ 18:28, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Please note that this article's infobox is retrieving an ISBN from Wikidata currently. This is the result of a change made to {{ Infobox book}} as a result of this RfC. It would be appreciated if an editor took some time to review this ISBN to ensure it is appropriate for the infobox. If it is not, you could consider either correcting the ISBN on Wikidata (preferred) or introducing a blank ISBN parameter in the infobox to block the retrieval from Wikidata. If you do review the ISBN, please respond here so other editors don't duplicate your work. This is an automated message to address concerns that this change did not show up on watchlists. ~ Rob Talk 01:22, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
I'm sort of joking, but not really. I read Don Pendelton's original 36 or 37 installments, whatever the number was, one by one as they were released. 2600:8801:BE31:D300:4CBA:538B:D24B:9F03 ( talk) 19:12, 23 December 2021 (UTC) JJE
The infobox says "Publication date: 1969–present", but the article text says "464 novels (as of December 2020 when the series ended)". Rob Kelk 15:17, 16 April 2024 (UTC)