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Rather than scatter merge discussion over the place, let's centralize it at Talk:Estates of the realm#Proposed merge -- Jmabel | Talk 08:45, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
That particular merge discussion resulted in a decision not to merge this article to that page. However:
I think States-General should redirect here, and I'm open to ideas for fleshing this out. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:35, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
There is a difference between The States and States-General, the first is a sub-national assembly, the later is a general assembly of representatives of (or to) the local States.
I have a personal interest in exploring the difference. In 1809 the tsar of Imperial Russia, Alexander I called the Finnish estates to assembly in Porvoo. Later Finnish historians see this event as the birth of the Finnish state and nation. Russians historians (as well as tsarist bureaucrats during the russification period) may see it differently.
The crucial question is whether Alexander called the assembly of the States or the States-General. This is the difference between a nation and a subnational entity.
Modern Finnish texts are of little guide on this issue. The Diet of Porvoo is in Finnish called "Porvoon valtiopäivät". The word valtio refers to a true " Westphalian state". However the word valtio was unknown in 1809. Contemporarily the assembly was called maapäivät.
Was maapäivät a States or a States-General?
Wow! This page is really developing nicely! Good job everyone! Ewlyahoocom 09:10, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
The phrase "The States" is common enough to perhaps warrant mentior or redirect - its a casual/slang term frequently in use by Americans abroad or English speakers, to refer to the USA. Note hugely central, but I admit I came accross this article out of curiousity of what would appear after reading the entry for "Blighty" on wikipedia. Dxco 05:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was Move Duja ► 08:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
The States → The Estates — less ambiguous? — Ewlyahoocom 04:14, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.The move was a very bad idea. Now we have:
Besides, most of the incoming backlinks are to " The States". -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 02:05, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
In fact this has proven to be a very bad idea! -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 11:13, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
"the States" is now redirecting to " Estates of the Realm". Nothing in that article has any reference to "the States" either in bold as a title word or within the text. I will redirect "the States" to the United States now, unless there's a valid reason for redirecting here, and please let me know if there is. Mistakefinder ( talk) 01:36, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
There is a new merger proposal. I thought the old one was killed in 2006, and again in 2010. Nothing new has occurred since then. There is still a difference between a parliament and the social classes therein represented. Creuzbourg ( talk) 23:17, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
Rather than scatter merge discussion over the place, let's centralize it at Talk:Estates of the realm#Proposed merge -- Jmabel | Talk 08:45, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
That particular merge discussion resulted in a decision not to merge this article to that page. However:
I think States-General should redirect here, and I'm open to ideas for fleshing this out. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:35, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
There is a difference between The States and States-General, the first is a sub-national assembly, the later is a general assembly of representatives of (or to) the local States.
I have a personal interest in exploring the difference. In 1809 the tsar of Imperial Russia, Alexander I called the Finnish estates to assembly in Porvoo. Later Finnish historians see this event as the birth of the Finnish state and nation. Russians historians (as well as tsarist bureaucrats during the russification period) may see it differently.
The crucial question is whether Alexander called the assembly of the States or the States-General. This is the difference between a nation and a subnational entity.
Modern Finnish texts are of little guide on this issue. The Diet of Porvoo is in Finnish called "Porvoon valtiopäivät". The word valtio refers to a true " Westphalian state". However the word valtio was unknown in 1809. Contemporarily the assembly was called maapäivät.
Was maapäivät a States or a States-General?
Wow! This page is really developing nicely! Good job everyone! Ewlyahoocom 09:10, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
The phrase "The States" is common enough to perhaps warrant mentior or redirect - its a casual/slang term frequently in use by Americans abroad or English speakers, to refer to the USA. Note hugely central, but I admit I came accross this article out of curiousity of what would appear after reading the entry for "Blighty" on wikipedia. Dxco 05:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was Move Duja ► 08:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
The States → The Estates — less ambiguous? — Ewlyahoocom 04:14, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.The move was a very bad idea. Now we have:
Besides, most of the incoming backlinks are to " The States". -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 02:05, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
In fact this has proven to be a very bad idea! -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 11:13, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
"the States" is now redirecting to " Estates of the Realm". Nothing in that article has any reference to "the States" either in bold as a title word or within the text. I will redirect "the States" to the United States now, unless there's a valid reason for redirecting here, and please let me know if there is. Mistakefinder ( talk) 01:36, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
There is a new merger proposal. I thought the old one was killed in 2006, and again in 2010. Nothing new has occurred since then. There is still a difference between a parliament and the social classes therein represented. Creuzbourg ( talk) 23:17, 29 December 2017 (UTC)