The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that
Werner Herzog, who plays The Client in The Mandalorian, has called the show's producers "cowards" for considering the use of computer-generated imagery for "
Baby Yoda"?
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Think it might be worth stating that he first appears in The Mandalorian in the lead
Do you mean the fact that his first appearance is the episode "The Mandalorian"? If you feel strongly I'll add it, but my preference would be not to do so. The first appearance is already covered in the infobox so I think it would be a bit redundant. Also, since he is only in a handful of episodes as it is, I don't know if we need to call the one out by name. (And if we do so, do we then have to mention his last one as well?) Also, leaving it out would be more consistent with how the other Mandalorian character articles are already written. But let me know what you think... —
HunterKahn05:10, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Appearances
"informs the bounty hunter than the target" -> "informs the bounty hunter that the target"
"They devise a new plan in which Greef and his ally Cara Dune bring the Mandalorian to the Client as if he is a prisoner, after which they would assassinate him" Think it could be made clearer here that Greef and Mando intend to assassinate the client (it could be read as though Greef and Cara Dune plan to assassinate Mando)
"bringing along a transport" think it could be made clearer that this a cot-like transport rather than a ship
Changed to "compartment", though let me know if you have thoughts on a better word (or feel free to just replace it yourself if you have one). —
HunterKahn05:10, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Characterization
"nor had he ever before seen any Star Wars films" -> "nor had he seen any Star Wars films"
"Favreau and executive producer Dave Filoni shot scenes for the character both with and without the puppet, so they could replace the character with a CGI effect in post-production if the puppet did not look satisfactory." Replace one instance of "the character" with "the Child"
There's a brief mention of Herzog's performance on the BBC website which you may, or may not, wish to include. It states that "It's a hoot to see [The Mandalorian] leaning into a chilly, German-accented character who wears the insignia of the Empire. The Mandalorian doesn't care; he's a mercenary." :
http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20191112-star-wars-show-the-mandalorian-is-difficult-to-care-about
Thanks for finding this. I'm not sure it quite fits anywhere; the closest might be adding the "hoot" line to the Reception section, though it's less a statement about the character and more about Mando's interaction with him, and I'm not sure it adds much in any event, so I've left it out for now. —
HunterKahn05:10, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks
Hunter Kahn My point regarding the lead was simply to say "who first appears in the Disney+ television series The Mandalorian", but I take your point. Thanks for writing such an interesting article, happy to promote
Requested move 7 March 2022
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The Client (Star Wars) →
Client (Star Wars) – Per
WP:NCTHE, the leading "The" is discouraged. Specifically, If the definite or indefinite article would be capitalized in running text, then include it at the beginning of the Wikipedia article name. Otherwise, do not. In official sources, including
StarWars.com, the definite article in the character's name is not capitalized except at the beginning of a sentence, e.g. "A mysterious Imperial who keeps a low profile in a safehouse on Nevarro, the Client is the face behind an otherwise faceless bounty, an off-the-record assignment with a high value.".
Axem Titanium (
talk)
14:49, 7 March 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose: Per
WP:COMMONNAME, and
Talk:The Mandalorian (character). The credits do not say "Client", they say "The Client". The sentence is "A mysterious Imperial who keeps a low profile in a safehouse on Nevarro, the Client is the face behind an otherwise faceless bounty, an off-the-record assignment with a high value.", not "A mysterious Imperial who keeps a low profile in a safehouse on Nevarro, Client is the face behind an otherwise faceless bounty, an off-the-record assignment with a high value."
MandoWarrior (
talk)
15:29, 7 March 2022 (UTC)reply
WP:NCTHE explicitly discusses this situation. Since "the" is not capitalized in the middle of a sentence when referring to the character, the "the" should be omitted from the title.
Axem Titanium (
talk)
19:39, 7 March 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose:
Axem Titanium I remember you. You pulled this
in 2020 too. Paraphrasing the response from
JDDJS: "He is referred to as "the Client" in most media, not just Client. Also including "the" makes it clear that it's about a specific Client, and not just clients in general." Separately,
Client (Star Wars) looks ridiculous as a title.
Poindextero (
talk)
00:13, 9 March 2022 (UTC)reply
Support. It seems like the removal of the "the" is what policy dictates, and none of the oppose comments above seem to address the actual policy guidelines
Axem Titanium has brought up with regards to the definite article, specifically
WP:NCTHE. There should probably be a discussion about "The" Mandalorian too, since none of the discussions over there have specifically focused on the "The" besides a speedy revert after it was removed in December 2020, as mentioned above. --
Cerebral726 (
talk)
13:46, 9 March 2022 (UTC)reply
Yes, I'm a little frustrated by the speedy discussion at the Mandalorian page because it was closed in under 24 hours without even a {{ping}}. I referenced
WP:NCTHE in my move rationale so I don't appreciate being impugned as doing an "undiscussed move" without even a chance to respond.
Axem Titanium (
talk)
20:23, 9 March 2022 (UTC)reply
WP:NCTHE states "If a term with a definite article has a different meaning with respect to the same term without the article, the term with the article can be used as the name of a Wikipedia article about that meaning, and the term without the article can be used as the name of a separate Wikipedia article." Client on its own could just refer to anyone who was a client in Star Wars. Adding "the" to the title makes it clear that the article is about a specific character. JDDJS (
talk to me •
see what I've done)18:36, 9 March 2022 (UTC)reply
WP:NCTHE cautions There are some situations where they are warranted, but many where they are not. When used inappropriately, they violate common usage, only serving as noise words. More importantly, this can cause problems with the length of the name, the quick search function, and sorting. Due to these problems, the default rule is to exclude them, which indicates that the potential for confusion must be extraordinary to warrant including an extraneous in/definite article in the title. If a reader were looking for clients in general in Star Wars, then that confusion would be dispelled instantly by reading the first line of the article. Inventing an imagined reader who is looking for clients in general, but not this Client, is a tortured line of argument.
Axem Titanium (
talk)
20:44, 9 March 2022 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that
Werner Herzog, who plays The Client in The Mandalorian, has called the show's producers "cowards" for considering the use of computer-generated imagery for "
Baby Yoda"?
Current status: Good article
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following
WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Star Wars, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Star Wars saga on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Star WarsWikipedia:WikiProject Star WarsTemplate:WikiProject Star WarsStar Wars articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Television, a collaborative effort to develop and improve Wikipedia articles about
television programs. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page where you can
join the discussion.
To improve this article, please refer to the
style guidelines for the type of work.TelevisionWikipedia:WikiProject TelevisionTemplate:WikiProject Televisiontelevision articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Fictional characters, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
fictional characters on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Fictional charactersWikipedia:WikiProject Fictional charactersTemplate:WikiProject Fictional charactersfictional character articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Science Fiction, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
science fiction on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Science FictionWikipedia:WikiProject Science FictionTemplate:WikiProject Science Fictionscience fiction articles
Think it might be worth stating that he first appears in The Mandalorian in the lead
Do you mean the fact that his first appearance is the episode "The Mandalorian"? If you feel strongly I'll add it, but my preference would be not to do so. The first appearance is already covered in the infobox so I think it would be a bit redundant. Also, since he is only in a handful of episodes as it is, I don't know if we need to call the one out by name. (And if we do so, do we then have to mention his last one as well?) Also, leaving it out would be more consistent with how the other Mandalorian character articles are already written. But let me know what you think... —
HunterKahn05:10, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Appearances
"informs the bounty hunter than the target" -> "informs the bounty hunter that the target"
"They devise a new plan in which Greef and his ally Cara Dune bring the Mandalorian to the Client as if he is a prisoner, after which they would assassinate him" Think it could be made clearer here that Greef and Mando intend to assassinate the client (it could be read as though Greef and Cara Dune plan to assassinate Mando)
"bringing along a transport" think it could be made clearer that this a cot-like transport rather than a ship
Changed to "compartment", though let me know if you have thoughts on a better word (or feel free to just replace it yourself if you have one). —
HunterKahn05:10, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Characterization
"nor had he ever before seen any Star Wars films" -> "nor had he seen any Star Wars films"
"Favreau and executive producer Dave Filoni shot scenes for the character both with and without the puppet, so they could replace the character with a CGI effect in post-production if the puppet did not look satisfactory." Replace one instance of "the character" with "the Child"
There's a brief mention of Herzog's performance on the BBC website which you may, or may not, wish to include. It states that "It's a hoot to see [The Mandalorian] leaning into a chilly, German-accented character who wears the insignia of the Empire. The Mandalorian doesn't care; he's a mercenary." :
http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20191112-star-wars-show-the-mandalorian-is-difficult-to-care-about
Thanks for finding this. I'm not sure it quite fits anywhere; the closest might be adding the "hoot" line to the Reception section, though it's less a statement about the character and more about Mando's interaction with him, and I'm not sure it adds much in any event, so I've left it out for now. —
HunterKahn05:10, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks
Hunter Kahn My point regarding the lead was simply to say "who first appears in the Disney+ television series The Mandalorian", but I take your point. Thanks for writing such an interesting article, happy to promote
Requested move 7 March 2022
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The Client (Star Wars) →
Client (Star Wars) – Per
WP:NCTHE, the leading "The" is discouraged. Specifically, If the definite or indefinite article would be capitalized in running text, then include it at the beginning of the Wikipedia article name. Otherwise, do not. In official sources, including
StarWars.com, the definite article in the character's name is not capitalized except at the beginning of a sentence, e.g. "A mysterious Imperial who keeps a low profile in a safehouse on Nevarro, the Client is the face behind an otherwise faceless bounty, an off-the-record assignment with a high value.".
Axem Titanium (
talk)
14:49, 7 March 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose: Per
WP:COMMONNAME, and
Talk:The Mandalorian (character). The credits do not say "Client", they say "The Client". The sentence is "A mysterious Imperial who keeps a low profile in a safehouse on Nevarro, the Client is the face behind an otherwise faceless bounty, an off-the-record assignment with a high value.", not "A mysterious Imperial who keeps a low profile in a safehouse on Nevarro, Client is the face behind an otherwise faceless bounty, an off-the-record assignment with a high value."
MandoWarrior (
talk)
15:29, 7 March 2022 (UTC)reply
WP:NCTHE explicitly discusses this situation. Since "the" is not capitalized in the middle of a sentence when referring to the character, the "the" should be omitted from the title.
Axem Titanium (
talk)
19:39, 7 March 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose:
Axem Titanium I remember you. You pulled this
in 2020 too. Paraphrasing the response from
JDDJS: "He is referred to as "the Client" in most media, not just Client. Also including "the" makes it clear that it's about a specific Client, and not just clients in general." Separately,
Client (Star Wars) looks ridiculous as a title.
Poindextero (
talk)
00:13, 9 March 2022 (UTC)reply
Support. It seems like the removal of the "the" is what policy dictates, and none of the oppose comments above seem to address the actual policy guidelines
Axem Titanium has brought up with regards to the definite article, specifically
WP:NCTHE. There should probably be a discussion about "The" Mandalorian too, since none of the discussions over there have specifically focused on the "The" besides a speedy revert after it was removed in December 2020, as mentioned above. --
Cerebral726 (
talk)
13:46, 9 March 2022 (UTC)reply
Yes, I'm a little frustrated by the speedy discussion at the Mandalorian page because it was closed in under 24 hours without even a {{ping}}. I referenced
WP:NCTHE in my move rationale so I don't appreciate being impugned as doing an "undiscussed move" without even a chance to respond.
Axem Titanium (
talk)
20:23, 9 March 2022 (UTC)reply
WP:NCTHE states "If a term with a definite article has a different meaning with respect to the same term without the article, the term with the article can be used as the name of a Wikipedia article about that meaning, and the term without the article can be used as the name of a separate Wikipedia article." Client on its own could just refer to anyone who was a client in Star Wars. Adding "the" to the title makes it clear that the article is about a specific character. JDDJS (
talk to me •
see what I've done)18:36, 9 March 2022 (UTC)reply
WP:NCTHE cautions There are some situations where they are warranted, but many where they are not. When used inappropriately, they violate common usage, only serving as noise words. More importantly, this can cause problems with the length of the name, the quick search function, and sorting. Due to these problems, the default rule is to exclude them, which indicates that the potential for confusion must be extraordinary to warrant including an extraneous in/definite article in the title. If a reader were looking for clients in general in Star Wars, then that confusion would be dispelled instantly by reading the first line of the article. Inventing an imagined reader who is looking for clients in general, but not this Client, is a tortured line of argument.
Axem Titanium (
talk)
20:44, 9 March 2022 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.