The Chosen (TV series) is currently a Television good article nominee. Nominated by ButlerBlog ( talk) at 19:43, 3 September 2023 (UTC) An editor has placed this article on hold to allow improvements to be made to satisfy the good article criteria. Recommendations have been left on the review page, and editors have seven days to address these issues. Improvements made in this period will influence the reviewer's decision whether or not to list the article as a good article. Short description: American television series |
The Chosen (TV series) was nominated as a Media and drama good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (August 25, 2023). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
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Text and/or other creative content from this version of The Chosen (TV series) was copied or moved into List of The Chosen episodes. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
@ Butlerblog The sources that previously claimed a supposed heresy belong to the same page I cited to add positive contexts about the series, 1. In the first instance 2, I synthesized two sources improperly, for which I apologize. In the second instance 3, I refer to the source itself. Considering the 3rd reversion 4 of my edit for trying to include context, there must be a specific issue regarding this. As the sources are blogs, it would be best to leave it without that mention. Best regards. Berposen ( talk) 19:20, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
[adding] positive contexts about the series") that you're trying to offset the section of critical review. By doing that, the paragraph structure is thrown off. Additionally, there's no need for that as there is already a clear differentiation between positive and critical review of the series. In fact, that entire section consists of predominately positive review. Related to this is that your copy is very editorial in style (such as "
Among the quarantine phenomena that have made a splash on Catholic social media, one stands out from the rest"). Don't write in a persuasive style. This is not really appropriate copy for encyclopedic content. See WP:EDITORIAL. As far as sources are concerned, I didn't have as much of a problem with the first source (although I did have a problem with the content as noted already), but the second one is clearly problematic as it is definitely a blog and not appropriate as an RS (see WP:SELFPUBLISH). ButlerBlog ( talk) 21:25, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
The 12 men following Jesus in the show are not Apostles. They are not referred to as Apostles. "Apostles" as a label was not given to the 12 Disciples until after Jesus' death, resurrection, and the Holy Spirit descended on all of them, as recorded in the Book of Acts. The Chosen is a show based on the Gospels of Jesus Christ. Acts is not one of the Gospel books. The cast/character descriptions need to match what's happening in the show and the literature the show is based on, not what was written about the Disciples/Apostles in books not included in the Gospels or in the show's content. Butlerblog, for whatever reason, is set on keeping the description of the 12 students/followers of Jesus as "Apostles", but not once have the writers referred to the Disciples in the show as Apostles, nor has that been reflected in the script. In fact, there was no such thing AS an apostle in Christendom until after the events of the Book of Acts took place. I believe using "Apostles" in this article isn't just incorrect, is anachronistic and changes the narrative of the show. A4M2 Alaska4Me2 ( talk) 02:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
[N]ot once have the writers referred to the Disciples in the show as Apostles, nor has that been reflected in the script". That is incorrect, otherwise I would not have reverted your changes. In season 3, episode 2, Roumie (Jesus) says the following (emphasis added) "There will be many more followers and like those not here, all will have roles and responsibilities. Most will be disciples, students. But I have chosen you twelve as my apostles." [1].
[t]he cast/character descriptions need to match what's happening in the show and the literature the show is based on..." you're partially right. You need to leave it at "what's happening in the show". We've been through this issue before, but it bears repeating. The show is the subject of the article and is a work of historical fiction, so the info about characters or names or anything else is "in-universe" regardless of what scripture says (or doesn't say). ButlerBlog ( talk) 14:38, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
@ Radiant Fellow: - you have reverted back to your preferred, albeit incorrect, version of the article without discussing a thing at this page. Not once have you tried to talk about it. Your edit summary says, "corroborating ButlerBlog" and claims there has been consensus. [5] How can there be consensus without discussion? It would be great if you actually came here to discuss rather than acting in proxy for another editor who, it now seems from all appearances, feels he has ownership over the article. A4M2 Alaska4Me2 ( talk) 16:39, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
The premises that the term apostle should only be used for followers of Jesus after his death and that the apostles did not include Judas Iscariot are not in accord with the Gospels of Luke (6.13: "When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles:" [6], with Greek αποστολους) or Matthew (10.1-2,5: "Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness. These are the names of the twelve apostles ... and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions:"). While disciple means, roughly, pupil / apprentice / follower, apostle means one who is sent out, and Jesus is described as sending them out as apostles quite early in those gospels. NebY ( talk) 15:36, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
from a theological and exegetical perspective, I don't believe it is at all" and I would still encourage you to read them, but I acknowledge that I'm unlikely to convince someone who's started from the egregious WP:OR that "
"Apostles" as a label was not given to the 12 Disciples until after Jesus' death, resurrection, and the Holy Spirit descended on all of them, as recorded in the Book of Acts" and so will end here by saying that you do not have consensus for your assertions that the disciples should not be referred to as apostles. NebY ( talk) 18:37, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; ³Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; ⁴Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
— Matthew 10:1-5
Folks, we have to go with the sources, not our own research, not our own religious and theological beliefs, not with what we think we see in the storyline. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and encyclopedias are about facts, not feelings.
Two reliable sources that we have for using disciples rather than apostles is the script and the official cast/character list. That's what we have to go with. Everything else mentioned above is outside the realm of sourcing per Wikipedia guidelines for this particular article. It truly doesn't matter what the Bible tells us for writing and improving upon this article. Dallas Jenkins himself has said repeatedly in interviews (both video and print) that 95% of the show isn't directly from the Bible. [7] But please remember, this article is about the show, not theology. It's not a Biblical Lexicon or Vine's Concordance and Dictionary or even a theological commentary. We have to remember that when writing good articles here, there is no room or reason for WP:SYNTH or WP:POV or WP:OR.
While it does frustrate me any seasoned editor would concur with support for an argument that flies directly in the face of accepted and long standing policy on how to write a Wikipedia article and how not to do it, I do understand the desire to "correct" the record. To correct what looks wrong and what we think we know to be right. BUT, if we do that, we have strayed from the topic at hand, and that is making the article all about the article subject. In this case, the article subject is a television program in the category of historical drama. A historical drama that, from the mouth of the creator/director/co-writer, is 95% not found in the Bible. If arguments for content inclusion are based on accepted hermeneutics or a personal interpretation of Scripture, that's taking the article the wrong direction.
The Chosen is a TV program. It's not a Bible documentary. And we must stick with the sources that relate directly to the show itself. Anything outside that doesn't belong in the article. There's just no other way to approach this particular subject. A4M2 Alaska4Me2 ( talk) 15:24, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
NebY ( talk) 15:34, 5 January 2024 (UTC)One morning, after having spent the entire night on a mountain praying with God the Father, Jesus called His disciples together. He selected 12 of them, and named them apostles in His service (Luke 6:12-13). The word ‘apostle’ comes from the Greek term ἀπόστολος (apóstolos), which means “messenger” or “delegate” — a title that would take on even more special significance following the Jesus' death and resurrection, when the responsibility for sharing the Gospel would fall to the Apostles themselves.
— Angel Studios, January 3, 2023 [8]
NebY ( talk) 15:59, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Episode 2, Two by Two: Jesus is a problem for the Romans. With pilgrims from everywhere setting up a tent city at the gates of Capernaum to see Jesus, tensions rise. Jesus officially sends the twelve apostles on an exciting but dangerous mission, causing Little James to ask why he hasn’t been healed.
— Angel Studios [9]
not in accordance with the gospels. To be very frank, with regards to this article, that is irrelevant. And from what she said at in her first response to you (
But since this is a TV show article not a New Testament Bible or theology article, we have to go with with the reliable sources say), I'd say that she does understand the difference. If your concern is what is correct from an exegetical perspective, have that discussion elsewhere where it is relevant. ButlerBlog ( talk) 16:54, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
NebY ( talk) 16:06, 5 January 2024 (UTC)But I have chosen you twelve as my apostles.
— The Chosen, Season 3, Episode 2, 00:36:40 [11]
Some important corrections are needed for the benefit of accuracy.
The disciples: "Apostle", when mentioned in the cast list character descriptions, needs to be changed to "disciple". Numerous cast lists and interviews online refer to those characters as "disciples", never "apostles". In the show's roundtables, the 12 are always referred to as disciples, never apostles. For a reliable source to support "disciple", please see the link below to Angel Studios. This verifies via the official cast list that none of the original 12 are listed as "apostle", rather, as "disciple".
Little James: The character of Little James is listed in the article's cast list character description as a "member" of the Jerusalem 288. In episode 6 of season 1, an exchange between Simon and Little James has the latter telling the former that he met Jesus while he was on the road to Jerusalem, on his way to join "the 288", aka, the Jerusalem Temple Choir. He had not become a member of the choir but was a recruit or prospective member. This is also verified at the Angel Studios link provided below.
The following link is to the show's cast list at Angel Studios, the media company and film distribution studio that distributed The Chosen beginning in 2017. [12]
Thank you, A4M2 Alaska4Me2 ( talk) 21:58, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
Considering the recent editing history, as well as not so recent, the cast list has been a constant source of article instability, and that instability has twice now contributed to GA status fail. Some of the past issues were due to disagreements over formats, as the initial building of the cast was not as clearcut within the scope of our MoS when compared to other TV series. And some of it is simply due to fancruft constantly creeping in.
To address this issue head on, I have added a List of The Chosen characters list article. This isn't considered a formal split, as the main article still contains the main cast (see more below), but it has the benefit of giving some room for expansion that wouldn't be appropriate in the main article due to size. I believe the cast size and complexity also warrants this.
Keep in mind that while there is no specific "one right way" to display this type of information, there are likewise many incorrect ways to do it as well. While expansion of the content on the list article is encouraged, it also needs to remain "encyclopedic" in nature and not simply "fancruft". No trivia, and keep the minutiae to a minimum.
What really needs to happen on the list article at this point is expansion of other characters that were omitted from the original article due to size/complexity reasons (see past discussions: [13] [14] [15]). Now that there is a list article, these recurring and guest characters are more approrpriate to list - in fact, encouraged. Make sure it makes sense to list, however; no fancruft applies. Also, make sure you are famililar with MOS:TV, specifically that which is related to MOS:TVCAST ButlerBlog ( talk) 16:17, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
I just want to help grow the articles on The Chosen and make them helpful to readers- if you want to do that, then follow existing guidelines and we'll get along fine. ButlerBlog ( talk) 17:57, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
"The chosen" actually refers to those chosen by Jesus to follow Him. The description in the info box states the show is based on the life of Jesus. Unless that is the description given by Dallas Jenkins, I think we need to make a correction and for it to read that the show is based on the Biblical Gospel books or Biblical Gospel. Also, the description of the show in the opening paragraphs reads awkwardly to me. Any input here would be good. Thanks in advance. A4M2 Alaska4Me2 ( talk) 06:05, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
|based_on=
param from the infobox because as I noted, what that param is intended for doesn't really fit this instance.
Cite error: There are <ref group=lower-alpha>
tags or {{efn}}
templates on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist|group=lower-alpha}}
template or {{notelist}}
template (see the
help page).
The Chosen (TV series) is currently a Television good article nominee. Nominated by ButlerBlog ( talk) at 19:43, 3 September 2023 (UTC) An editor has placed this article on hold to allow improvements to be made to satisfy the good article criteria. Recommendations have been left on the review page, and editors have seven days to address these issues. Improvements made in this period will influence the reviewer's decision whether or not to list the article as a good article. Short description: American television series |
The Chosen (TV series) was nominated as a Media and drama good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (August 25, 2023). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
The Chosen (TV series) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 180 days |
This page is not a forum for general discussion about The Chosen (TV series). Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about The Chosen (TV series) at the Reference desk. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
Text and/or other creative content from this version of The Chosen (TV series) was copied or moved into List of The Chosen episodes. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
@ Butlerblog The sources that previously claimed a supposed heresy belong to the same page I cited to add positive contexts about the series, 1. In the first instance 2, I synthesized two sources improperly, for which I apologize. In the second instance 3, I refer to the source itself. Considering the 3rd reversion 4 of my edit for trying to include context, there must be a specific issue regarding this. As the sources are blogs, it would be best to leave it without that mention. Best regards. Berposen ( talk) 19:20, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
[adding] positive contexts about the series") that you're trying to offset the section of critical review. By doing that, the paragraph structure is thrown off. Additionally, there's no need for that as there is already a clear differentiation between positive and critical review of the series. In fact, that entire section consists of predominately positive review. Related to this is that your copy is very editorial in style (such as "
Among the quarantine phenomena that have made a splash on Catholic social media, one stands out from the rest"). Don't write in a persuasive style. This is not really appropriate copy for encyclopedic content. See WP:EDITORIAL. As far as sources are concerned, I didn't have as much of a problem with the first source (although I did have a problem with the content as noted already), but the second one is clearly problematic as it is definitely a blog and not appropriate as an RS (see WP:SELFPUBLISH). ButlerBlog ( talk) 21:25, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
The 12 men following Jesus in the show are not Apostles. They are not referred to as Apostles. "Apostles" as a label was not given to the 12 Disciples until after Jesus' death, resurrection, and the Holy Spirit descended on all of them, as recorded in the Book of Acts. The Chosen is a show based on the Gospels of Jesus Christ. Acts is not one of the Gospel books. The cast/character descriptions need to match what's happening in the show and the literature the show is based on, not what was written about the Disciples/Apostles in books not included in the Gospels or in the show's content. Butlerblog, for whatever reason, is set on keeping the description of the 12 students/followers of Jesus as "Apostles", but not once have the writers referred to the Disciples in the show as Apostles, nor has that been reflected in the script. In fact, there was no such thing AS an apostle in Christendom until after the events of the Book of Acts took place. I believe using "Apostles" in this article isn't just incorrect, is anachronistic and changes the narrative of the show. A4M2 Alaska4Me2 ( talk) 02:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
[N]ot once have the writers referred to the Disciples in the show as Apostles, nor has that been reflected in the script". That is incorrect, otherwise I would not have reverted your changes. In season 3, episode 2, Roumie (Jesus) says the following (emphasis added) "There will be many more followers and like those not here, all will have roles and responsibilities. Most will be disciples, students. But I have chosen you twelve as my apostles." [1].
[t]he cast/character descriptions need to match what's happening in the show and the literature the show is based on..." you're partially right. You need to leave it at "what's happening in the show". We've been through this issue before, but it bears repeating. The show is the subject of the article and is a work of historical fiction, so the info about characters or names or anything else is "in-universe" regardless of what scripture says (or doesn't say). ButlerBlog ( talk) 14:38, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
@ Radiant Fellow: - you have reverted back to your preferred, albeit incorrect, version of the article without discussing a thing at this page. Not once have you tried to talk about it. Your edit summary says, "corroborating ButlerBlog" and claims there has been consensus. [5] How can there be consensus without discussion? It would be great if you actually came here to discuss rather than acting in proxy for another editor who, it now seems from all appearances, feels he has ownership over the article. A4M2 Alaska4Me2 ( talk) 16:39, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
The premises that the term apostle should only be used for followers of Jesus after his death and that the apostles did not include Judas Iscariot are not in accord with the Gospels of Luke (6.13: "When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles:" [6], with Greek αποστολους) or Matthew (10.1-2,5: "Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness. These are the names of the twelve apostles ... and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions:"). While disciple means, roughly, pupil / apprentice / follower, apostle means one who is sent out, and Jesus is described as sending them out as apostles quite early in those gospels. NebY ( talk) 15:36, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
from a theological and exegetical perspective, I don't believe it is at all" and I would still encourage you to read them, but I acknowledge that I'm unlikely to convince someone who's started from the egregious WP:OR that "
"Apostles" as a label was not given to the 12 Disciples until after Jesus' death, resurrection, and the Holy Spirit descended on all of them, as recorded in the Book of Acts" and so will end here by saying that you do not have consensus for your assertions that the disciples should not be referred to as apostles. NebY ( talk) 18:37, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; ³Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; ⁴Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
— Matthew 10:1-5
Folks, we have to go with the sources, not our own research, not our own religious and theological beliefs, not with what we think we see in the storyline. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and encyclopedias are about facts, not feelings.
Two reliable sources that we have for using disciples rather than apostles is the script and the official cast/character list. That's what we have to go with. Everything else mentioned above is outside the realm of sourcing per Wikipedia guidelines for this particular article. It truly doesn't matter what the Bible tells us for writing and improving upon this article. Dallas Jenkins himself has said repeatedly in interviews (both video and print) that 95% of the show isn't directly from the Bible. [7] But please remember, this article is about the show, not theology. It's not a Biblical Lexicon or Vine's Concordance and Dictionary or even a theological commentary. We have to remember that when writing good articles here, there is no room or reason for WP:SYNTH or WP:POV or WP:OR.
While it does frustrate me any seasoned editor would concur with support for an argument that flies directly in the face of accepted and long standing policy on how to write a Wikipedia article and how not to do it, I do understand the desire to "correct" the record. To correct what looks wrong and what we think we know to be right. BUT, if we do that, we have strayed from the topic at hand, and that is making the article all about the article subject. In this case, the article subject is a television program in the category of historical drama. A historical drama that, from the mouth of the creator/director/co-writer, is 95% not found in the Bible. If arguments for content inclusion are based on accepted hermeneutics or a personal interpretation of Scripture, that's taking the article the wrong direction.
The Chosen is a TV program. It's not a Bible documentary. And we must stick with the sources that relate directly to the show itself. Anything outside that doesn't belong in the article. There's just no other way to approach this particular subject. A4M2 Alaska4Me2 ( talk) 15:24, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
NebY ( talk) 15:34, 5 January 2024 (UTC)One morning, after having spent the entire night on a mountain praying with God the Father, Jesus called His disciples together. He selected 12 of them, and named them apostles in His service (Luke 6:12-13). The word ‘apostle’ comes from the Greek term ἀπόστολος (apóstolos), which means “messenger” or “delegate” — a title that would take on even more special significance following the Jesus' death and resurrection, when the responsibility for sharing the Gospel would fall to the Apostles themselves.
— Angel Studios, January 3, 2023 [8]
NebY ( talk) 15:59, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Episode 2, Two by Two: Jesus is a problem for the Romans. With pilgrims from everywhere setting up a tent city at the gates of Capernaum to see Jesus, tensions rise. Jesus officially sends the twelve apostles on an exciting but dangerous mission, causing Little James to ask why he hasn’t been healed.
— Angel Studios [9]
not in accordance with the gospels. To be very frank, with regards to this article, that is irrelevant. And from what she said at in her first response to you (
But since this is a TV show article not a New Testament Bible or theology article, we have to go with with the reliable sources say), I'd say that she does understand the difference. If your concern is what is correct from an exegetical perspective, have that discussion elsewhere where it is relevant. ButlerBlog ( talk) 16:54, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
NebY ( talk) 16:06, 5 January 2024 (UTC)But I have chosen you twelve as my apostles.
— The Chosen, Season 3, Episode 2, 00:36:40 [11]
Some important corrections are needed for the benefit of accuracy.
The disciples: "Apostle", when mentioned in the cast list character descriptions, needs to be changed to "disciple". Numerous cast lists and interviews online refer to those characters as "disciples", never "apostles". In the show's roundtables, the 12 are always referred to as disciples, never apostles. For a reliable source to support "disciple", please see the link below to Angel Studios. This verifies via the official cast list that none of the original 12 are listed as "apostle", rather, as "disciple".
Little James: The character of Little James is listed in the article's cast list character description as a "member" of the Jerusalem 288. In episode 6 of season 1, an exchange between Simon and Little James has the latter telling the former that he met Jesus while he was on the road to Jerusalem, on his way to join "the 288", aka, the Jerusalem Temple Choir. He had not become a member of the choir but was a recruit or prospective member. This is also verified at the Angel Studios link provided below.
The following link is to the show's cast list at Angel Studios, the media company and film distribution studio that distributed The Chosen beginning in 2017. [12]
Thank you, A4M2 Alaska4Me2 ( talk) 21:58, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
Considering the recent editing history, as well as not so recent, the cast list has been a constant source of article instability, and that instability has twice now contributed to GA status fail. Some of the past issues were due to disagreements over formats, as the initial building of the cast was not as clearcut within the scope of our MoS when compared to other TV series. And some of it is simply due to fancruft constantly creeping in.
To address this issue head on, I have added a List of The Chosen characters list article. This isn't considered a formal split, as the main article still contains the main cast (see more below), but it has the benefit of giving some room for expansion that wouldn't be appropriate in the main article due to size. I believe the cast size and complexity also warrants this.
Keep in mind that while there is no specific "one right way" to display this type of information, there are likewise many incorrect ways to do it as well. While expansion of the content on the list article is encouraged, it also needs to remain "encyclopedic" in nature and not simply "fancruft". No trivia, and keep the minutiae to a minimum.
What really needs to happen on the list article at this point is expansion of other characters that were omitted from the original article due to size/complexity reasons (see past discussions: [13] [14] [15]). Now that there is a list article, these recurring and guest characters are more approrpriate to list - in fact, encouraged. Make sure it makes sense to list, however; no fancruft applies. Also, make sure you are famililar with MOS:TV, specifically that which is related to MOS:TVCAST ButlerBlog ( talk) 16:17, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
I just want to help grow the articles on The Chosen and make them helpful to readers- if you want to do that, then follow existing guidelines and we'll get along fine. ButlerBlog ( talk) 17:57, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
"The chosen" actually refers to those chosen by Jesus to follow Him. The description in the info box states the show is based on the life of Jesus. Unless that is the description given by Dallas Jenkins, I think we need to make a correction and for it to read that the show is based on the Biblical Gospel books or Biblical Gospel. Also, the description of the show in the opening paragraphs reads awkwardly to me. Any input here would be good. Thanks in advance. A4M2 Alaska4Me2 ( talk) 06:05, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
|based_on=
param from the infobox because as I noted, what that param is intended for doesn't really fit this instance.
Cite error: There are <ref group=lower-alpha>
tags or {{efn}}
templates on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist|group=lower-alpha}}
template or {{notelist}}
template (see the
help page).