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Obviously both. He was an Ottoman citizen but he was also Turkish and wrote in Turkish. The exact definitions of these categories do not exist, at least I could not find it. There does not seem to be a requirement of "citizenship" anywhere. Though logic dictates that Tevfik Fikret is obviously a Turkish poet in addition to being an Ottoman, I can understand how logic and common sense can be in short supply on these pages sometimes. Numerous Ottoman "citizens" are listed in the Turkish category for example and vice versa. Note that Ottoman citizens of Armenian, Greek or Kurdish origin are routinely categorized under their "national" categoties while opposite is rarely true. Since these two categories, Ottoman and Turkish Poets exist, then it is correct that Tevfik Fikret belongs to both until there is a different official and more definitive Wiki description of the categories. Regards. Murat ( talk) 17:51, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
Category:Turkish poets is one of the sub-category of Category:Turkish people by occupation.
Category:Turkish people by occupation is one of the sub-category of Category:Turkish people.
And Category:Turkish people = This category page lists notable citizens of the Republic of Turkey.
Even in tr:Tevfik Fikret (Turkish Wikipedia), Ottomans' category is used. Takabeg ( talk) 17:54, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
If we want, we can find terms such as "Ottoman Armenian language", "Ottoman Greek language" etc.... but they are uncommon. Normally the Ottoman language ( لسان عثمانى Lisan-i Osmani) means Ottoman "Turkish" language. I suspect the contemporary usage of the term لسان ترکی عثمانى (Lisan-i Turki Osmani) and عثمانلیجه (Osmanlıca).
Historically, he was an Ottoman poet [1] who is considered the founder of the modern school of Turkish poetry. [2]
I have performed a web search with the contents of Murat's this edits, and it appears to include material copied directly from http://www.turkeyodyssey.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1914:tevfik-fikret&catid=18:articles&Itemid=9 (Turkey Odyssey), which says "Copyright © 2011 Turkey Travel Guide Copyright © 2009 Turkey Travel Guide", and http://www.turkishculture.org/literature/literature/turkish-authors/tevfik-fikret-424.htm (Turkish Cultural Foundation), which says "(c) Copyright 2011 Turkish Cultural Foundation". Takabeg ( talk) 22:05, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
This edit is completely wrong. Bacause of:
1. Charles Kurzman (Democracy Denied, 1905-1915: Intellectuals and the Fate of Democracy, Harvard University Press) used "Ottoman poet" (
Tevfik Fikret, an Ottoman poet). We must edit according to sources, not by POV's.
2. His nationality was Ottoman = citizen of the Ottoman Empire (Turkish: Osmanlı tebaası ) by categorizaton of Wikipedia.
Possibly his ethnicity may be Turkish, but I don't know. If this would be proved with reliable sources, we can put Category:Ottoman Turks. Takabeg ( talk) 07:10, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
I saw this case being posted at the 3RR noticeboard. We have an article on Ottoman poetry, and it might be reasonable to consult scholarly works which can help assign Fikret to Ottoman poetry or to Poetry of the Republic of Turkey. The latter article talks about "..'Turkish Poetry' beginning with 1911 with the national literature movement", but it does not include Tevfik Fikret as one of the named poets of the modern period. Our article on Ottoman poetry does not include him as a named poet either. If he is a borderline case, perhaps a section could be added to the article which explains the issues. Since he appears to be a famous man, something must have been written about him which could settle this issue. EdJohnston ( talk) 17:22, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Servet-i Funun has an image of him before his death (not a morbid photo) https://archives.saltresearch.org/bitstream/123456789/129372/643/PFSIF9180822A033%20(1918-08-22).jpg
It may be PD and may be uploadable to the Commons WhisperToMe ( talk) 05:30, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Tevfik Fikret article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Obviously both. He was an Ottoman citizen but he was also Turkish and wrote in Turkish. The exact definitions of these categories do not exist, at least I could not find it. There does not seem to be a requirement of "citizenship" anywhere. Though logic dictates that Tevfik Fikret is obviously a Turkish poet in addition to being an Ottoman, I can understand how logic and common sense can be in short supply on these pages sometimes. Numerous Ottoman "citizens" are listed in the Turkish category for example and vice versa. Note that Ottoman citizens of Armenian, Greek or Kurdish origin are routinely categorized under their "national" categoties while opposite is rarely true. Since these two categories, Ottoman and Turkish Poets exist, then it is correct that Tevfik Fikret belongs to both until there is a different official and more definitive Wiki description of the categories. Regards. Murat ( talk) 17:51, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
Category:Turkish poets is one of the sub-category of Category:Turkish people by occupation.
Category:Turkish people by occupation is one of the sub-category of Category:Turkish people.
And Category:Turkish people = This category page lists notable citizens of the Republic of Turkey.
Even in tr:Tevfik Fikret (Turkish Wikipedia), Ottomans' category is used. Takabeg ( talk) 17:54, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
If we want, we can find terms such as "Ottoman Armenian language", "Ottoman Greek language" etc.... but they are uncommon. Normally the Ottoman language ( لسان عثمانى Lisan-i Osmani) means Ottoman "Turkish" language. I suspect the contemporary usage of the term لسان ترکی عثمانى (Lisan-i Turki Osmani) and عثمانلیجه (Osmanlıca).
Historically, he was an Ottoman poet [1] who is considered the founder of the modern school of Turkish poetry. [2]
I have performed a web search with the contents of Murat's this edits, and it appears to include material copied directly from http://www.turkeyodyssey.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1914:tevfik-fikret&catid=18:articles&Itemid=9 (Turkey Odyssey), which says "Copyright © 2011 Turkey Travel Guide Copyright © 2009 Turkey Travel Guide", and http://www.turkishculture.org/literature/literature/turkish-authors/tevfik-fikret-424.htm (Turkish Cultural Foundation), which says "(c) Copyright 2011 Turkish Cultural Foundation". Takabeg ( talk) 22:05, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
This edit is completely wrong. Bacause of:
1. Charles Kurzman (Democracy Denied, 1905-1915: Intellectuals and the Fate of Democracy, Harvard University Press) used "Ottoman poet" (
Tevfik Fikret, an Ottoman poet). We must edit according to sources, not by POV's.
2. His nationality was Ottoman = citizen of the Ottoman Empire (Turkish: Osmanlı tebaası ) by categorizaton of Wikipedia.
Possibly his ethnicity may be Turkish, but I don't know. If this would be proved with reliable sources, we can put Category:Ottoman Turks. Takabeg ( talk) 07:10, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
I saw this case being posted at the 3RR noticeboard. We have an article on Ottoman poetry, and it might be reasonable to consult scholarly works which can help assign Fikret to Ottoman poetry or to Poetry of the Republic of Turkey. The latter article talks about "..'Turkish Poetry' beginning with 1911 with the national literature movement", but it does not include Tevfik Fikret as one of the named poets of the modern period. Our article on Ottoman poetry does not include him as a named poet either. If he is a borderline case, perhaps a section could be added to the article which explains the issues. Since he appears to be a famous man, something must have been written about him which could settle this issue. EdJohnston ( talk) 17:22, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Servet-i Funun has an image of him before his death (not a morbid photo) https://archives.saltresearch.org/bitstream/123456789/129372/643/PFSIF9180822A033%20(1918-08-22).jpg
It may be PD and may be uploadable to the Commons WhisperToMe ( talk) 05:30, 16 March 2021 (UTC)