![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
A lovely photograph of someone's schlong now adorns Terri Schiavo's wikipedia entry! Now, explicitness aside... we should make sure there's no copyright infringement here. : P
The archives for the Terri Schiavo page may be found here:
In the "Palm Sunday Compromise," Florida Governor Jeb Bush is said to have "decided to obey the courts" when the linked story is that the decision was made only AFTER the FDLE met the resistance of local police. The attempt was made, it simply failed. Geminidomino 11:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
I've been bold and archived everything on the talk page, as it had just become a big 132k pile of poop, and not particularly constructive poop at that. If there were any burning issues that really should be here still, feel free to go into the latest archive and rescue them. Proto|| type 11:57, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Of the hundreds on my watchlist this article is like the never ending edit. Of this I'm sure, this article has become a cause and darn if I'll let a "so" where there should be a "but". If this article with its minutia is your cause well then have at it with all of your attention. It at least keeps you away from the rest of this project. hydnjo talk 03:56, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Should we move medical info back in? (One sentence comments please)
Support
Oppose
I have merged back per above vote.
Ah, this unfortunate article... So it's 75K but adding back just 24 of the notes added 10k alone. The body of this is apx 45k, which isn't terrible. Given that I've done the mergeback I guess I'll be the one to pick through for inconsistencies that have cropped up and the notes and refs obviously need to be re-verified. Marskell 16:04, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
I added a more objective way of describing Terri Schiavo. Certainly her being killed should be stated directly. I didn't write 'murder' because murder means the unlawful taking of life. Also the "feeding tube" portion in the second paragraph should more directly say that Terri was deprived of food.
IamOne 09:30, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
In response to this paragraph, User: 69.251.18.126 posted into the middle of the article the editorial comment that follows:
Beginning in 1998, Terri's husband and guardian Michael Schiavo petitioned the courts to remove the gastric feeding tube keeping Schiavo alive; Schiavo's parents Robert and Mary Schindler fought a series of legal battles opposing Michael. The courts consistently found that Schiavo was in a PVS and had made credible statements that she would not wish to be kept alive on a machine. By 2003, the matter, while still local to Florida, had received some national attention.
Sarah Ewart ( Talk) 05:46, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Does the wikilinking of almost every instance of a date seems excessive to anyone or is it just me? hydnjo talk 04:15, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm removing the Category:George W. Bush administration controversies someone just added. The case really never centered around the administration, despite their involvement; this is mostly clutter. Superm401 - Talk 01:03, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone have a less POV source for Bobby Schindler's quote? Also, can someone who is more familiar with the issue than me clarify that not everyone sees the autopsy result as ruling out bulimia or a heart attack? Finally, I'm not yet familiar with the new citation style being used in most of this article, but someone who is should check the autospy section -- old-style citations, mixed in with the new, seem to be throwing off the numbering scheme. -- Allen 20:04, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Mr j galt, your new sentence, "Contrary to his assertion to the court, Michael Schiavo did not bring his wife home nor did he provide her with direct nursing care." seems like original research to me, and also a bit ambiguous. According to WP:NOR, we cannot draw novel conclusions from even referenced facts. In this case, the sentence would need to attribute to someone the idea that Michael Schiavo contradicted his own assertion.
Secondly, it seems to me that the word "assertion" doesn't make clear what Michael Schiavo said. As far as I can tell, Schiavo was not asserting that he had brought Terri home, or even promising that he would, but rather was stating that he would like to bring her home.
-- Allen 20:12, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
The notion that Terri wanted a divorce is, I think, a relevant factor in the discussion.
Cited in the Shindler's book: A life That Matters
[1]; last page of ch 4, (page 38)
MartinGugino
03:32, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
MartinGugino 04:18, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
For me, the autopsy can describe the state of the brain, but how that relates to the state of the person is problematic. The Schindlers' attorney, Barbara Weller, thought that Terry understood her. I refer to the "I want to live" incident that Weller reported to the court, under oath. To my mind, Terry exhibited at least "artificial" intelligence, as defined by the Turing test, since Barbara was taken in by Terrys behavior. If Terry demonstrated artificial intelligence, then I think that it is more reasonable to say that she possessed real intelligence, and was aware. ( MartinGugino 08:06, 21 April 2006 (UTC))
The problem is there is not a simple linear relationship between brain weight and consciousness. We normally characterize consciousness based on interactions, not brain weight, so it's hard to be sure what brain weight means, especially since there are testimonies from people who felt they had exchanged information with her: Heidi Law, and Barbara Weller for two. MartinGugino 03:17, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Even a "flat EEG", using standard equipment on a non-standard brain, is open to doubt, when there is personal testimony that contradicts it.
I am reading Michael Schiavo's book on Terri, and on page 325, he mentions the Barb Weller incident, but omits the context, much as I omitted it above. What made the event so convincing to Barb Weller is reported here [ [2]] at paragraph 7, starting "The most dramatic event..." ( MartinGugino 05:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC))
Or, here is video of Barbara Weller taken the day in question. [ [3]]. ( MartinGugino 05:37, 8 January 2007 (UTC))
I think that what is hidden in this coverage is an explanation of what made this story so big. What made each side so passionate. Something like
Plus the political debate(??) (Im out of my league here)
I have read a few of the internet articles about Schiavo, and it sounds fairly convincing that the doctors who said that she had no capacity to think or perceive, knew what they were talking about. It also seems that the occurrence of the public taking so great an interest in the issue was not so much about an issue as to whether or not a person in a vegetative state should be kept alive, but rather due to people being let to believe that Schiavo was aware and attempting to communicate. I personally believe that neither the Schindlers nor Michael were in any way bad people: they just had different beliefs as to what is morally right, and different perceptions as to what Terri would have wanted, and both sides were prepared to fight for what they believed in, at high personal costs in many ways to themselves. However much Michael might have showed himself in an unfavorable light at various times, I believe that his decision was for the purpose of allowing Terri to die with dignity, for her own sake. The argument that people have given in favor of Michael's decision, that the video made by Terri's parents was in fact of carefully selected highlights which were able to give the impression that Terri was aware and communicative, is one that I find very plausible. There are also statements that attempts by other people to reproduce such incidences of responses on Terri's part were not successful, and indicated that her movements were random and not consistent with any external stimuli. Katrina
This is a pathological condition. She was seeing a doctor about fertility. What did he say about this condition? There is no way he could have not dealt with it. MartinGugino 08:54, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
I see. This was the basis of the malpractice award.
No it's not that clear. The malpractice was based on a non-diagnosis of bulemia. Not clear how much the menstruation issue was involved. So I still ask, did the fertility doctor comment on why she was not menstruating? Seems basic. MartinGugino 22:24, 23 April 2006 (UTC) Was the 'fertitlity' doctor her gynecologist, Dr Igel? or someone else? Igel was the defendant in the case. The GP settled out of court. The lawyers wouldnt let anyone escape unsued would they? I don't think so.
Amenorrhea is a symptom of anorexia, but I doubt it would be related to bulimia, as bulimics tend to maintain a pretty normal weight overall. It could also indicate other problems not related to eating disorders, however. Emily
Was there any information stating that she was underweight at any point in time prior to her cardiac arrest? 55 kg is a long way above the underweight range for her height. <<<{61.68.109.253 posted this unsigned question on 03:43, 10 January 2007; Station Identification is courtesy of GordonWatts 04:12, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}
Where is the information about the Sunday night where congress came back in session to argue about terri schiavo, congress barely does anything on the weekdays and they convened on a sunday just for this case, the height of evangelical ridiculousness under the republican congress.
Any objections to reducing the size of the reference section font? - Roy Boy 800 01:30, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
I object. The status of font sizes for references is in a Wiki-mess now with changes being made to articles, the <ref> tag definition, and the Media-Wiki CSS style sheet in a chaotic manner. Wait for the dust to settle please. patsw 05:02, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
In the text as it stands, there is no indication of the "Michael tried to strangle Terri" narrative, which became a major backdrop to the controversy, until you get to the autopsy. Then it comes as a surprise, if you aren't familiar with the case, that anyone was looking for strangulation evidence at all. Ethan Mitchell 02:35, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Was Mr. Schiavo ever investigated by law enforcement for possibly causing his wife's condition? If not then it is odd that they would look for evidence of strangulation at the autopsy.
Shouldnt the article be titled Teresa Schaivo due to that being her real name? 69.19.14.34 07:27, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I decided to offset the Schiavo I to IV sections with the emphasis that this was a period of struggle between Terri's parents and Michael, but that the struggle was at the family level and had not yet recieved any significant publicity.
Also: I think that Michael's malpractice suit belong's on Michael's page. It did not "happen" to Terri at all.
I am going to inline the refernces today. It should have been done months ago. -- 64.175.42.18 19:41, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I ran AndyZ's automatic peer review tool and add the results to the past (the third) peer review report. -- 64.175.40.143 09:15, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
150.199.193.11 15:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)ygjfiytiluhjhfgjfjh
Shouldn't the of the husband, if he didn't want to take care of her, then give her into the hands of her parents? I have my opinions about those who are brain-dead, but she should've been the responsiblilty of the parents. -- Yancyfry jr 06:55, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
I think the idea is that he was respecting her wishes, not wanting her to die. Kagechikara 06:22, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
87.9.189.45 16:20, 31 October 2006 (UTC) Michael Schiavo bottom line has always been "I am carrying out my wife's wishes. Her parents wouldn't". His belief was Terry wouldn't want to be kept alive like that, which was what the Schindler were trying to do. Thus, he did want to "take care" of her, from his point of view.
I think that Terri's own wishes to live were ignored: You have to decide that Barbara Weller's testimony was false, or was something, and that didn't happen. ( MartinGugino 07:22, 8 January 2007 (UTC))
One of these sections says that the doctors were getting a diagnosis that she was not in a vegatative state, while the other section says that she is in a vegatative state. Please correct this.
87.9.189.45 16:14, 31 October 2006 (UTC) The contradiction occurs because the paragraphs don't fit the timeline. Terry was visited by her internist, Dr. Patrick Mulroy, on July 1993. He spoke with Michael Schiavo and told him that "this is the Way Terri is going to be the rest of her life". From now on, Michael slowly starts considering the idea of letting her wife go. On July 29, 1993 Robert and Mary Schindler sue Schiavo (1993 Guardianship Challenge). Terri then contracts an urinary infection, and Michael issues the DNR. The Sabal Palms staff refuses to enforce it, replying that it violates Florida law (which is wrong, but i need a confirm about this). During the Guardianship Hearing, nobody ever talks about PVS diagnosis. Then, on November 20, 1993 Michael goes to see a neurologist, Dr. Thomas Harrison, which takes a EEG on Terri. His answer is "Nothing, no cortical, top functioning" and "Her top functioning, her knowing, her feeling, her awareness of who she is and who's aroung her - all of that is gone". The PVS diagnoses came a lot later, with the petition for the removal of the feeding tube, in 1998. Judge George Greer appointed Richard Pearse as GAL, and while waiting for him to deliver his report, Michael Schiavo asked Dr. Jeffrey Karp (neurologist) to examine the woman. His impressions were "Her examination does indicate that she is in a chronic vegetative state- She does not meet the criteria of being brain dead, but according to the Florida Statue definitions provided to me by Mr. Felos, under Section 765-101, subset 15-B Florida Statues, the patient is in a persistent vegetative state. She has permanent and irreversible condition. Despite her eyes being open, she does not appear to be aware or responsive to her environment. There is an absence of voluntary activity or cognitive behavior, and inability to communicate or interact purposefully with her environment." In his report, Dr.Karp agreed with Dr.De Sousa's notes about Terri's EEG.
This is the first time an "official" PVS diagnosis is made. Later in the "Schiavo Case" this diagnosis will be contested (obviously with the purpose of not allowing the removal of the feeding tube: had the Schindler shown her daughter was not in PVS, her legal Guardian - Schiavo - would have not been allowed to withdraw life support for lacking of law requirements as stated in Florida Statutes 765-305, subset 2-B Florida Statutes: "Before exercising the incompetent patient's right to forego treatment, the surrogate must be satisfied that: [...] (b) The patient is both mentally and physically incapacitated with no reasonable medical probability of recovery, the patient has an end-stage condition, the patient is in a persistent vegetative state, or the patient's physical condition is terminal.").
There is no contradiction: prior to the first petition there has been no PVS diagnosis. Then, doctors called by Michael Schiavo diagnosed PVS, while those on the Schindlers' side contested this diagnosis.
I didn't really care about the case. I mean if she is truly brain-dead, I don't care. But the husband could've let her parents take care of her.
Hi all,
I have promoted the article to the status of good article. I could not find any contradictions in the two tagged paragraphs. My only concern was with the sentence:
"However, there has never been any hard evidence that Schiavo had an eating disorder, and the low potassium could have been a spurious result caused by the intravascular administration of fluids during the attempt to resuscitate her."
No authoritative source for this statement was provided so I removed the "there has never been any hard evidence that Schiavo had an eating disorder" part (especially because this seemed to contradict early statements in the article). Upon reading the article in full I realised that this was the conclusion of Dr. Thogmartin who completed Schiavo's autoposy. My advice would be to note this point in that sentence otherwise readers will think it is editor speculation (until they get to the autopsy section which not all readers will necessarily read).
Cedars 02:01, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I was using this site as a reference in a paper. Now when I click on the Terry Schiavo site. It looks like it's been vandalized. How can the original information be put back? I need it for my citation paper page. Can this page be protected?
Please fix this. I am unable to.
Val
Saros136 01:21, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Saros136 01:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Maybe you should consider using a more credible source for your research paper.
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
A lovely photograph of someone's schlong now adorns Terri Schiavo's wikipedia entry! Now, explicitness aside... we should make sure there's no copyright infringement here. : P
The archives for the Terri Schiavo page may be found here:
In the "Palm Sunday Compromise," Florida Governor Jeb Bush is said to have "decided to obey the courts" when the linked story is that the decision was made only AFTER the FDLE met the resistance of local police. The attempt was made, it simply failed. Geminidomino 11:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
I've been bold and archived everything on the talk page, as it had just become a big 132k pile of poop, and not particularly constructive poop at that. If there were any burning issues that really should be here still, feel free to go into the latest archive and rescue them. Proto|| type 11:57, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Of the hundreds on my watchlist this article is like the never ending edit. Of this I'm sure, this article has become a cause and darn if I'll let a "so" where there should be a "but". If this article with its minutia is your cause well then have at it with all of your attention. It at least keeps you away from the rest of this project. hydnjo talk 03:56, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Should we move medical info back in? (One sentence comments please)
Support
Oppose
I have merged back per above vote.
Ah, this unfortunate article... So it's 75K but adding back just 24 of the notes added 10k alone. The body of this is apx 45k, which isn't terrible. Given that I've done the mergeback I guess I'll be the one to pick through for inconsistencies that have cropped up and the notes and refs obviously need to be re-verified. Marskell 16:04, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
I added a more objective way of describing Terri Schiavo. Certainly her being killed should be stated directly. I didn't write 'murder' because murder means the unlawful taking of life. Also the "feeding tube" portion in the second paragraph should more directly say that Terri was deprived of food.
IamOne 09:30, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
In response to this paragraph, User: 69.251.18.126 posted into the middle of the article the editorial comment that follows:
Beginning in 1998, Terri's husband and guardian Michael Schiavo petitioned the courts to remove the gastric feeding tube keeping Schiavo alive; Schiavo's parents Robert and Mary Schindler fought a series of legal battles opposing Michael. The courts consistently found that Schiavo was in a PVS and had made credible statements that she would not wish to be kept alive on a machine. By 2003, the matter, while still local to Florida, had received some national attention.
Sarah Ewart ( Talk) 05:46, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Does the wikilinking of almost every instance of a date seems excessive to anyone or is it just me? hydnjo talk 04:15, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm removing the Category:George W. Bush administration controversies someone just added. The case really never centered around the administration, despite their involvement; this is mostly clutter. Superm401 - Talk 01:03, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone have a less POV source for Bobby Schindler's quote? Also, can someone who is more familiar with the issue than me clarify that not everyone sees the autopsy result as ruling out bulimia or a heart attack? Finally, I'm not yet familiar with the new citation style being used in most of this article, but someone who is should check the autospy section -- old-style citations, mixed in with the new, seem to be throwing off the numbering scheme. -- Allen 20:04, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Mr j galt, your new sentence, "Contrary to his assertion to the court, Michael Schiavo did not bring his wife home nor did he provide her with direct nursing care." seems like original research to me, and also a bit ambiguous. According to WP:NOR, we cannot draw novel conclusions from even referenced facts. In this case, the sentence would need to attribute to someone the idea that Michael Schiavo contradicted his own assertion.
Secondly, it seems to me that the word "assertion" doesn't make clear what Michael Schiavo said. As far as I can tell, Schiavo was not asserting that he had brought Terri home, or even promising that he would, but rather was stating that he would like to bring her home.
-- Allen 20:12, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
The notion that Terri wanted a divorce is, I think, a relevant factor in the discussion.
Cited in the Shindler's book: A life That Matters
[1]; last page of ch 4, (page 38)
MartinGugino
03:32, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
MartinGugino 04:18, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
For me, the autopsy can describe the state of the brain, but how that relates to the state of the person is problematic. The Schindlers' attorney, Barbara Weller, thought that Terry understood her. I refer to the "I want to live" incident that Weller reported to the court, under oath. To my mind, Terry exhibited at least "artificial" intelligence, as defined by the Turing test, since Barbara was taken in by Terrys behavior. If Terry demonstrated artificial intelligence, then I think that it is more reasonable to say that she possessed real intelligence, and was aware. ( MartinGugino 08:06, 21 April 2006 (UTC))
The problem is there is not a simple linear relationship between brain weight and consciousness. We normally characterize consciousness based on interactions, not brain weight, so it's hard to be sure what brain weight means, especially since there are testimonies from people who felt they had exchanged information with her: Heidi Law, and Barbara Weller for two. MartinGugino 03:17, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Even a "flat EEG", using standard equipment on a non-standard brain, is open to doubt, when there is personal testimony that contradicts it.
I am reading Michael Schiavo's book on Terri, and on page 325, he mentions the Barb Weller incident, but omits the context, much as I omitted it above. What made the event so convincing to Barb Weller is reported here [ [2]] at paragraph 7, starting "The most dramatic event..." ( MartinGugino 05:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC))
Or, here is video of Barbara Weller taken the day in question. [ [3]]. ( MartinGugino 05:37, 8 January 2007 (UTC))
I think that what is hidden in this coverage is an explanation of what made this story so big. What made each side so passionate. Something like
Plus the political debate(??) (Im out of my league here)
I have read a few of the internet articles about Schiavo, and it sounds fairly convincing that the doctors who said that she had no capacity to think or perceive, knew what they were talking about. It also seems that the occurrence of the public taking so great an interest in the issue was not so much about an issue as to whether or not a person in a vegetative state should be kept alive, but rather due to people being let to believe that Schiavo was aware and attempting to communicate. I personally believe that neither the Schindlers nor Michael were in any way bad people: they just had different beliefs as to what is morally right, and different perceptions as to what Terri would have wanted, and both sides were prepared to fight for what they believed in, at high personal costs in many ways to themselves. However much Michael might have showed himself in an unfavorable light at various times, I believe that his decision was for the purpose of allowing Terri to die with dignity, for her own sake. The argument that people have given in favor of Michael's decision, that the video made by Terri's parents was in fact of carefully selected highlights which were able to give the impression that Terri was aware and communicative, is one that I find very plausible. There are also statements that attempts by other people to reproduce such incidences of responses on Terri's part were not successful, and indicated that her movements were random and not consistent with any external stimuli. Katrina
This is a pathological condition. She was seeing a doctor about fertility. What did he say about this condition? There is no way he could have not dealt with it. MartinGugino 08:54, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
I see. This was the basis of the malpractice award.
No it's not that clear. The malpractice was based on a non-diagnosis of bulemia. Not clear how much the menstruation issue was involved. So I still ask, did the fertility doctor comment on why she was not menstruating? Seems basic. MartinGugino 22:24, 23 April 2006 (UTC) Was the 'fertitlity' doctor her gynecologist, Dr Igel? or someone else? Igel was the defendant in the case. The GP settled out of court. The lawyers wouldnt let anyone escape unsued would they? I don't think so.
Amenorrhea is a symptom of anorexia, but I doubt it would be related to bulimia, as bulimics tend to maintain a pretty normal weight overall. It could also indicate other problems not related to eating disorders, however. Emily
Was there any information stating that she was underweight at any point in time prior to her cardiac arrest? 55 kg is a long way above the underweight range for her height. <<<{61.68.109.253 posted this unsigned question on 03:43, 10 January 2007; Station Identification is courtesy of GordonWatts 04:12, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}
Where is the information about the Sunday night where congress came back in session to argue about terri schiavo, congress barely does anything on the weekdays and they convened on a sunday just for this case, the height of evangelical ridiculousness under the republican congress.
Any objections to reducing the size of the reference section font? - Roy Boy 800 01:30, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
I object. The status of font sizes for references is in a Wiki-mess now with changes being made to articles, the <ref> tag definition, and the Media-Wiki CSS style sheet in a chaotic manner. Wait for the dust to settle please. patsw 05:02, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
In the text as it stands, there is no indication of the "Michael tried to strangle Terri" narrative, which became a major backdrop to the controversy, until you get to the autopsy. Then it comes as a surprise, if you aren't familiar with the case, that anyone was looking for strangulation evidence at all. Ethan Mitchell 02:35, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Was Mr. Schiavo ever investigated by law enforcement for possibly causing his wife's condition? If not then it is odd that they would look for evidence of strangulation at the autopsy.
Shouldnt the article be titled Teresa Schaivo due to that being her real name? 69.19.14.34 07:27, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I decided to offset the Schiavo I to IV sections with the emphasis that this was a period of struggle between Terri's parents and Michael, but that the struggle was at the family level and had not yet recieved any significant publicity.
Also: I think that Michael's malpractice suit belong's on Michael's page. It did not "happen" to Terri at all.
I am going to inline the refernces today. It should have been done months ago. -- 64.175.42.18 19:41, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I ran AndyZ's automatic peer review tool and add the results to the past (the third) peer review report. -- 64.175.40.143 09:15, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
150.199.193.11 15:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)ygjfiytiluhjhfgjfjh
Shouldn't the of the husband, if he didn't want to take care of her, then give her into the hands of her parents? I have my opinions about those who are brain-dead, but she should've been the responsiblilty of the parents. -- Yancyfry jr 06:55, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
I think the idea is that he was respecting her wishes, not wanting her to die. Kagechikara 06:22, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
87.9.189.45 16:20, 31 October 2006 (UTC) Michael Schiavo bottom line has always been "I am carrying out my wife's wishes. Her parents wouldn't". His belief was Terry wouldn't want to be kept alive like that, which was what the Schindler were trying to do. Thus, he did want to "take care" of her, from his point of view.
I think that Terri's own wishes to live were ignored: You have to decide that Barbara Weller's testimony was false, or was something, and that didn't happen. ( MartinGugino 07:22, 8 January 2007 (UTC))
One of these sections says that the doctors were getting a diagnosis that she was not in a vegatative state, while the other section says that she is in a vegatative state. Please correct this.
87.9.189.45 16:14, 31 October 2006 (UTC) The contradiction occurs because the paragraphs don't fit the timeline. Terry was visited by her internist, Dr. Patrick Mulroy, on July 1993. He spoke with Michael Schiavo and told him that "this is the Way Terri is going to be the rest of her life". From now on, Michael slowly starts considering the idea of letting her wife go. On July 29, 1993 Robert and Mary Schindler sue Schiavo (1993 Guardianship Challenge). Terri then contracts an urinary infection, and Michael issues the DNR. The Sabal Palms staff refuses to enforce it, replying that it violates Florida law (which is wrong, but i need a confirm about this). During the Guardianship Hearing, nobody ever talks about PVS diagnosis. Then, on November 20, 1993 Michael goes to see a neurologist, Dr. Thomas Harrison, which takes a EEG on Terri. His answer is "Nothing, no cortical, top functioning" and "Her top functioning, her knowing, her feeling, her awareness of who she is and who's aroung her - all of that is gone". The PVS diagnoses came a lot later, with the petition for the removal of the feeding tube, in 1998. Judge George Greer appointed Richard Pearse as GAL, and while waiting for him to deliver his report, Michael Schiavo asked Dr. Jeffrey Karp (neurologist) to examine the woman. His impressions were "Her examination does indicate that she is in a chronic vegetative state- She does not meet the criteria of being brain dead, but according to the Florida Statue definitions provided to me by Mr. Felos, under Section 765-101, subset 15-B Florida Statues, the patient is in a persistent vegetative state. She has permanent and irreversible condition. Despite her eyes being open, she does not appear to be aware or responsive to her environment. There is an absence of voluntary activity or cognitive behavior, and inability to communicate or interact purposefully with her environment." In his report, Dr.Karp agreed with Dr.De Sousa's notes about Terri's EEG.
This is the first time an "official" PVS diagnosis is made. Later in the "Schiavo Case" this diagnosis will be contested (obviously with the purpose of not allowing the removal of the feeding tube: had the Schindler shown her daughter was not in PVS, her legal Guardian - Schiavo - would have not been allowed to withdraw life support for lacking of law requirements as stated in Florida Statutes 765-305, subset 2-B Florida Statutes: "Before exercising the incompetent patient's right to forego treatment, the surrogate must be satisfied that: [...] (b) The patient is both mentally and physically incapacitated with no reasonable medical probability of recovery, the patient has an end-stage condition, the patient is in a persistent vegetative state, or the patient's physical condition is terminal.").
There is no contradiction: prior to the first petition there has been no PVS diagnosis. Then, doctors called by Michael Schiavo diagnosed PVS, while those on the Schindlers' side contested this diagnosis.
I didn't really care about the case. I mean if she is truly brain-dead, I don't care. But the husband could've let her parents take care of her.
Hi all,
I have promoted the article to the status of good article. I could not find any contradictions in the two tagged paragraphs. My only concern was with the sentence:
"However, there has never been any hard evidence that Schiavo had an eating disorder, and the low potassium could have been a spurious result caused by the intravascular administration of fluids during the attempt to resuscitate her."
No authoritative source for this statement was provided so I removed the "there has never been any hard evidence that Schiavo had an eating disorder" part (especially because this seemed to contradict early statements in the article). Upon reading the article in full I realised that this was the conclusion of Dr. Thogmartin who completed Schiavo's autoposy. My advice would be to note this point in that sentence otherwise readers will think it is editor speculation (until they get to the autopsy section which not all readers will necessarily read).
Cedars 02:01, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I was using this site as a reference in a paper. Now when I click on the Terry Schiavo site. It looks like it's been vandalized. How can the original information be put back? I need it for my citation paper page. Can this page be protected?
Please fix this. I am unable to.
Val
Saros136 01:21, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Saros136 01:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Maybe you should consider using a more credible source for your research paper.