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Assuming that intra-Solar System space travel becomes a practicality - how long would it take to make Venus a habitable planet?
While a fairly hypothetical question at them moment, money invested in Martian terraforming would probably be better spent.
Jackiespeel 16:55, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
I have several ideas, likely not covered: Many things are likely necessary to terraform Venus. The high speed wind at about 50 kilometers altitude likely spirals in near the North and South poles of Venus. The pressure, and thus the temperature, increases as the air descends converting the algae to algae charcoal. A snow fence on the surface collects algae charcoal and other dust for the same reasons it works with snow. If the fence circles the polar region, the elevation will increase over the centuries just outside the fence. Repositioning the fence will be necessary at least occasionally. The ring of hills will block some of the sunlight reaching the polar region and impede hot surface winds which would otherwise occasionally blow into the polar region from the lower latitudes. The sunshades that cool the polar regions need to be transparent to wavelengths of light that the algae can use is for photosynthesis. To convert the excess carbon dioxide to oxygen in less than a million years, many millions of cubic kilometers of atmosphere need to be maintained at a temperature which allows the algae to flourish. This will require skillful management of the sunshades. The algae cloud will cool the polar region significantly, if it is sufficiently dense. Just before the polar region is cool enough for sulpheric acid rain to fall, the polar region should be covered with an impervious film to keep the acid from soaking deep into Venus, otherwise boiling acid guysers will erupt returning the acid to the atmosphere. The sub-surface temperature of the polar plateau will likely remain at almost 500 degrees c for a million years. The algae has other needs: Phosphorus, potassium, nitrates and water which can be supplied by crashing small comets and asteroids into Venus just North of the Equator. We can build a plateau at the South pole simultaneously, but the North pole already has part of a plateau. As others have posted, incredibly expensive and may take a million years to terraform just the polar regions. After most of the sulpheric acid is stored below the surface of the polar plateau (1000 years?) genetically altered humans with a carbon dioxide removing prosthesis can likely work otherwise naked on the polar plateau. Plants can likely thrive in an atmosphere 1% oxygen, 1% water vapor and 90% carbon dioxide, at about 89 atmospheres pressure. At that high a pressure more than 1% oxygen is a fire hazard, so iron asteroids are now needed to convert the excess oxygen to iron oxide. Alternately, a million tons of imported hydrogen will make nine million pounds of water from the excess oxygen. Ccpoodle 15:55, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
I suggest to move the article to Terraforming of Venus by analogy with Colonization of Venus-- Nixer 09:17, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
I just removed this from the article:
It's uncited and doesn't seem plausible to me, but just in case anyone else has heard this proposal and can come up with references for it I'm putting it here in talk. Bryan 08:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Though there was talk of snagging a comet for extraterrestrial mining off Earth. It would also cause gravitational fluxutations. This may lead to a shortening of the day/night cycle.
They really would only need to shade the equator. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
File077 (
talk •
contribs)
20:04, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
The two linked PDFs to the NASA site do not work anymore and I can't find to where they moved. Can someone find them again?
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Terraforming_of_Venus&oldid=136168050#References
82.83.247.0 23:58, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Mdbrownmsw removed the following from this article:
"In a paper by Korycansky, Loughlin, and Adams, it is suggested that close flybys of sufficiently sized asteroids could be used to speed a planet's rotation. [1]"
Stating "Rotation - source does not discuss Terraforming of Venus, topic of this article."
Granted that as it stood, it didn't directly apply to the article, but the logical inference I made, and hadn't made explicit was that this procedure, as referenced in the article can be used to speed up the rotation of a planet, and is a technology much more readily accessible to our time than creating huge solar shades and mirrors. Could it be reworked and re-incorporated into the article? Bo-Lingua 02:38, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Why consider only calcium and magnesium metals when sodium and potassium are also available? These alkali metals are very reactive with carbon dioxide and would appear in any ocean that might be created later. In the right proportions they would be vital to any marine life that might be sown, and potassium would be a welcome addition to any soils that develop. - Tony ( talk) 09:56, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Should the name of this article not be "Terraforming Venus" or "Terraformation of Venus"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.36.223 ( talk) 12:04, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
The article does not mention the most obvious solution: move the entire Venus to Earth's orbit, but exactly to the opposite side of the Sun. This would get rid of the excessive light influx problem, which Venus currently suffers from due to its closeness to the Sun.
Of course, if you are mighty enough to do this, you are probably good enough to spin up Venus's day to 24 hours, the same as Earth's and add a strong magnetic field.
Venus is a better place than Mars, it is so Earth-equivalent in size, The Supreme Reason obviously intended it to serve as hummankind's second home. It would be a show of hubris not to do our utmost to accept this gift as quickly as possible! 82.131.210.162 ( talk) 13:13, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Drop some insulated space stations down there, run a tube up out of the atmosphere into space. Simply "poking a hole" in the balloon of an atmosphere is more than enough to cause very rapid outgassing. Simultaneous ( talk) 19:45, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Stirling engines on venus would work without even needing concentrators. Just set one out in the sun, and watch as it generates enough excess energy to pay for its trip. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine) Simultaneous ( talk) 19:45, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Establish a day/night light cycle shorter than Venus's current 116.75 day solar day.
Can we do without changing Venus rotation? Make a thick cloudy atmosphere with equal temperatures all around the Venusian globe, not unlike the current situation but much thinner and colder? -- Atitarev ( talk) 06:38, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
but it seems the only valid conclusion, the 'mirror-thing' sounds costly in the long term, and the fact is every precious ray from the sun counts, deflecting solar energy with atmospheric manipulation is incorrect for maximum biomass potential... it works as another bio-world, then there is less pressure on Mars to be a bio-world, it can be used mainly as a place for mining and machine-life, which is useful to have a machine-world close to bio-worlds, taking various pressures off the bio-worlds... adapting the chemistry of a bio-world to be compatible with the chemistry of mass-mining & machine-existence is as we know not easily done in the short term, as the visa-versa, yet, it can happen... yw — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.146.43.46 ( talk) 23:46, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
or one can use Mars as the bio-world... either way there would be a significant # of self-contained bio-habitats on the other, for various purpose, but you don't necessarily need to set both on fast-track terraforming programs, one could be set fast-track for machine-life, mining, industry, & bio-support instead, with an option for medium or long term terraforming... the decision which to use as which has many calculations, with many variables not even considered, more geologic data for both would help, & feasibility of access reports for various components of interest taking to consideration modifications that would be carried out to the world, then there is the lack of reports of efficiency calculations to creating bio-worlds dissimilar in this or that respect from Earth chemistry, altho in this situation something similar that is close to the primal-settlement on Earth is more likely 'useful', efficient what have you, can't help but mention the lack of full solar-system-utilization reports as being contrary to making accurate calculations, although those are tough without more geologic data from a variety of objects, & other data, still, primitive reports are useful, or what about the lack of greater-system planning? calculations on all nearest systems? Ooma Huntress-Protectress ( talk) 01:21, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
we may further contend, altho counter-argument best prepared, at least at 1st, Mars is more suitable for a multiplicity of "contained" bio-habitats, rather than a connected planetary ecosystem, as in manner of location & gravitational resistance more suitable for launch further out system, thence allowing a variety of bio-permutations to be practiced for allowance & tolerances otherwhere Ooma Huntress-Protectress ( talk) 03:54, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
as well, in terms of launch back earthwards, of bioform developments deemed suitable & of need, Mars enacts a reasonably close & gravitation-eased companion as EarthMoon bio-habitats & laboratories Ooma Huntress-Protectress ( talk) 04:01, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
I hate to be a stick in the mud here, especially since this is actually a cool and decently written article (although, stylistically, it could still use some copy editing). It's clear to me however, that the subject matter here is nothing more then science-fiction... It's good, interesting, and cool hard sci-fi, and I enjoyed reading it, but... it's still sci-fi. Are the stake holders in this article really certain that this is a credible article as is? The one issue that spring immediately to my mind, which I dont' see any mention of at all, is the total lack of a Venusian magnetosphere (which, theoretically, is one major reason for the runaway greenhouse effect on Venus...). I'm not saying that this article shouldn't exist (I'm likely one of the most inclusionist editors on Wikipedia), but I am saying that this article definately needs to be balanced with a more realistic view.
I hate to do this, but in order to better illustrate what I'm talking about I'm going to mark up the current article with a bunch of {{
fact}} and other inline marks as needed. my normal mode of editing is to remove them whenever I can, but... I'm not adding the tags willy-nilly. I really thing that attention is neede dwhere I've added the tags. I hope that those of you who have shepherded this article to this point will be motivated to improve the article rather then become discouraged.
(actually, I stopped after the Solar Shades section. If most of those are taken care of, we can address the rest of the article later)
—
Ω (
talk)
03:28, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
Two reasons Venus may not have a magnetic dynamo and plate tectonics may be affected by the addition of an ocean. That is, tectonic lubrication (which I'm told is important) and the induction of convection due to a thermal gradient in the core (which would be affected by the changing geology). This is pure speculation on my part, but has anyone seen anything that looks into the effect of such massive changes in this way? naturalnumber ( talk) 23:39, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Crash (gently) a comet like Hale-Bopp into Venus... problem solved. http://solar-center.stanford.edu/art/comet.html. Probably could be done in our lifetime. Steer a comet with a controlled heat source ... exploiting the reserves of reactive gasses in the comet itself. Outgassing=thrust. Simultaneous ( talk) 18:08, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
But isn't terraforming a very long-term process anyway?-- 135.196.181.166 ( talk) 12:45, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
could be cheaper import method, as shipping on craft between celestial objects is pricey, so is offloading goods onto small asteroids using them as the shipment craft, not much would be shipped except a few things valuable enough, certainly not for a while, information is the main thing that would be shipped for quite some time Ooma Huntress-Protectress ( talk) 01:48, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
Given sufficiently advanced technology to construct rigid towers from the surface to above the top of the atmosphere, there's a way to get a 'double shot' from using mass drivers at their tops to export excess atmosphere and speed up the rotation.
The first energy addition would come from capturing the kinetic energy of the millions of incoming pressure tanks filled with compressed hydrogen, oxygen or ordinary water. The emptied tanks would then be filled with compressed carbon dioxide and hurled outwards to comets brought in to a Solar orbit between Earth and Venus. The CO2 would be vented out there and the tanks refilled to send back. Think of giants repeatedly catching and pitching baseballs, with each catch and pitch pushing the giant back a little. More kinetic energy transfer could come from loads of cargo staying on Venus. Of course such mass drivers would require large amounts of energy, most likely nuclear power plants on top of the towers. If 'simply' exporting most of the atmosphere using mass drivers could bring Venus up to a 30 day rotation, reversing the process to transfer energy via incoming loads caught by the mass drivers ought to get the rotation going a bit faster, perhaps 20 days. Depends on how much mass would be imported. Upon reaching the end of the project, fire all the tanks in at the top designed catch speed then send them to the surface for recycling into various stuff. Keep a few of the better condition ones for the museums. The towers could remain for use as space elevators and over time the mass drivers, still being used for interplanetary cargo, would continue speeding up the rotation. If it ever gets to 24 hours, switch to launching and catching half the loads in each direction.
The last thing Venus needs for terraforming is *more atmosphere*. Aerobraking random chunks of natural space ice could cause extra work for getting rid of undesired gasses, though any useless gas added that way would give more mass for the mass driver system to kick away and make the final day shorter. The basic composition to aim for would be approximately 70% Nitrogen, 20% Oxygen, 4% water vapor and 0.03% carbon dioxide, and little enough of the total to produce close to one Earth atmosphere pressure. Of course that still leaves the need for extreme SPF sunscreen if speeding up the rotation doesn't jumpstart a magnetic field.
A different method would use the same style of towers as the mass driver system, but would have nuclear rocket engines using the atmospheric gas as reaction mass. The gas would have to be accelerated significantly above escape velocity and only at points in the rotation where the likelyhood of Venus scooping it back up in its orbit would be minimal. Once started the process might work without requiring any moving parts, giant nuclear powered siphons. For even more kick, antimatter powered venturi siphon jets. Fire a high speed jet of fluid through a venturi and fluid can be sucked through an opening in the side of the venturi throat. (One mundane application is a water siphon jet used to empty water bed mattresses. Using antimatter to empty a water bed = insanity.) The antimatter reaction with the atmospheric gas to create the jet would need to be tightly controlled. any unused antimatter would rather dramatically 'erode' pieces of the equipment. Another problem with that method might be radiation. Wouldn't want anything getting in the path of the exhaust streams.
but the issue is you don't necessarily really ideally want to lose whats in the atmosphere, i'll take a look, but 'adding more' to Venus by crashing things into it to adjust the rotation can be the ideal for full value, if thats cost-effective & manageable to do so, then you capture the components of the atmosphere you wish somewhere else and use them so as desired... yw — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.146.43.46 ( talk) 23:57, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
Completely crazy spin-up method. Make two really long cables, one end of each attached to opposing points on the equator. Wrap around Venus several times then pull, gently. What to pull them with? Who knows, some sort of rig that can thrust away for a very long time. Handling the cables as they fully unwind and have to be detached could be quite a 'fun' problem. Re-attaching and re-winding for another pull if needed would be even more fun. If anyone wants to use this or any of the two ideas above it in a SciFi story, be my guest. This third one might have potential for a comedy.
First of all, if we used nuclear bombs to hit Venus at an appropriate angle with a couple of KBOs, would that speed up its rotation? Second, don't the tidal forces generated by the Moon at least partly help keep Earth's core spinning? If so, then if we put a rather large body, such as Eris, in orbit around Venus, would that restart its dynamo? FlamingCobra ( talk) 23:29, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
Wondering if there have been any studies on terraforming with nanotechnology. At the rate our tech is progressing, there's a good possibility of having functional nanites by the end of the century. They could take the carbon from the atmosphere and compress/store it (maybe use all the carbon to create a space elevator).
Also, what impact would dropping a large asteroid/comet onto Venus have (assuming it was frozen and made of something like hydrogen)? 216.160.181.242 ( talk) 19:19, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
In the section about adding hydrogen to Venus's atmosphere, we read "possibly from an extrasolar source" Why?? Would be far cheaper to get hydrogen fm eg. Saturn. May I delete that part? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.70.58.119 ( talk) 05:37, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
How practical would terraforming Venus be?
Whatever means are used to 'block most incoming solar energy' (at least until the cooling process had got underway) and to create 'heat sinks into space' (for want of a better term): how long would it take the surface to cool down and create a surface that even a heat-resistant robot could move around on?
To the casual observer Mars seems much more practical - setting up the machinery to create Terran-life-supporting atmospheres,' 'water recycling plants' and 'dust storm protection' would be the main requirements and within current technological capacities.
Did any earlier science fiction predict boiling Venus? Jackiespeel ( talk) 21:39, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
It would be practical with current technology to establish a computer and robot run mineral extraction base on Mars; and Hubble 2, signal repeater and enhancer, and even a spacecraft repair and replacement facility on Eris or similar. The costs, resources required, and 'the complicated calculations and organisation involved' would be a fraction of that required for cooling Venus down.
Is there a suitable place to decamp to to discuss this thread of future science and technology? Jackiespeel ( talk) 10:53, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
Sulfur Dioxide is a very convenient refrigerant. How nice of Venus to have an enormous quantity of it in its atmosphere. If we can cool the whole planet, we have a lot less to worry about.
Venus also receives TWICE the amount of sunlight. How convenient for solar powered technologies that will provide Terra-forming functions. CR5 ( http://phys.org/news178203219.html) will provide necessary fuels and more, although it would be nice if we could know if Venus contained the same amount of iron oxide as Mars. Additionally, if we can make the atmosphere of Venus full of oxygen at the right pressure and temperature - we MAY conjecture that unpaired hydrogen floating in outer space can eventually supply the planet with water. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.254.116.35 ( talk) 15:59, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
If the atmosphere was heated up much further, applying some highly efficient greenhouse gases or space mirrors, could that make the atmosphere disappear into space rather quickly (like a boiling tub of water), i.e. over a few millennia? If much of it was gone, the process would slow down anyway due to loss of "natural" greenhouse gases and a controlled cooling should occur. However: How much of all the carbon and sulfur dioxide would end up on earth? Meerwind7 ( talk) 17:05, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
User:Mevagiss apparently believes inaccurate language such as his is preferable. I disagree. In the first place, there is no "opposite" side of Venus; the planet rotates. In the second place, shade is not "cast"; it is created. Shadows are cast. In the third place, I'm not at all sure cooling is "achieved" in this context as much as "effected" (& I should have corrected that mistake, but didn't...). As for "The construction", that's being fussy; "the" isn't grammatically necessary. TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 18:50, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
You are welcome to disagree, but the article is not yours to adjudicate on - see WP:OWN. The points you make are subjective and your criticism simply opens you to the same responses from others-- Mevagiss ( talk) 10:06, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
Can they cool venus by introducing Iodine to the atmosphere to interact with the sulphuric-acid atmosphere for an endothermic reaction? The result is oxygen and hydrogen, which we could use as a fuel, to run machinery that also combines these to make water, introducing clouds to cool the surface. — Preceding unsigned comment added by File077 ( talk • contribs) 20:07, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
I think I've added sufficient citations that the tag "This article possibly contains original research. (September 2015)" can be removed, so I did so. If you disagree, feel free to mark the appropriate sections, and I'll try to put in citations. (there certainly are places where I'd like to add some original research here, or at least some editorializing, with remarks like "this idea doesn't seem practical"-- but I tried to avoid that temptation.) Michael-Zero ( talk) 05:18, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
If the effort (eg delta-MV) for the various proposals have been estimated it would be great to see them so the ideas can be ranked by some proxy for cost or practicality. - Rod57 ( talk) 00:12, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
In light of the research on Mars of a magnetic shield on L1 orbit. Can someone find a credible source for the calculation of the size/cost of a solar heat shield at the L1 orbit. Maybe achieving similar heat radiation levels as the Earth. Space sunshade Space flight forum on the subject Quantanew ( talk) 08:47, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
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Perhaps detonating hundreds if not thousands of hydrogen bombs in Venus's stratospere might speedily tame the atmospere 2600:100E:B072:8C64:D8D0:573C:707D:9AD9 ( talk) 04:48, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
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Assuming that intra-Solar System space travel becomes a practicality - how long would it take to make Venus a habitable planet?
While a fairly hypothetical question at them moment, money invested in Martian terraforming would probably be better spent.
Jackiespeel 16:55, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
I have several ideas, likely not covered: Many things are likely necessary to terraform Venus. The high speed wind at about 50 kilometers altitude likely spirals in near the North and South poles of Venus. The pressure, and thus the temperature, increases as the air descends converting the algae to algae charcoal. A snow fence on the surface collects algae charcoal and other dust for the same reasons it works with snow. If the fence circles the polar region, the elevation will increase over the centuries just outside the fence. Repositioning the fence will be necessary at least occasionally. The ring of hills will block some of the sunlight reaching the polar region and impede hot surface winds which would otherwise occasionally blow into the polar region from the lower latitudes. The sunshades that cool the polar regions need to be transparent to wavelengths of light that the algae can use is for photosynthesis. To convert the excess carbon dioxide to oxygen in less than a million years, many millions of cubic kilometers of atmosphere need to be maintained at a temperature which allows the algae to flourish. This will require skillful management of the sunshades. The algae cloud will cool the polar region significantly, if it is sufficiently dense. Just before the polar region is cool enough for sulpheric acid rain to fall, the polar region should be covered with an impervious film to keep the acid from soaking deep into Venus, otherwise boiling acid guysers will erupt returning the acid to the atmosphere. The sub-surface temperature of the polar plateau will likely remain at almost 500 degrees c for a million years. The algae has other needs: Phosphorus, potassium, nitrates and water which can be supplied by crashing small comets and asteroids into Venus just North of the Equator. We can build a plateau at the South pole simultaneously, but the North pole already has part of a plateau. As others have posted, incredibly expensive and may take a million years to terraform just the polar regions. After most of the sulpheric acid is stored below the surface of the polar plateau (1000 years?) genetically altered humans with a carbon dioxide removing prosthesis can likely work otherwise naked on the polar plateau. Plants can likely thrive in an atmosphere 1% oxygen, 1% water vapor and 90% carbon dioxide, at about 89 atmospheres pressure. At that high a pressure more than 1% oxygen is a fire hazard, so iron asteroids are now needed to convert the excess oxygen to iron oxide. Alternately, a million tons of imported hydrogen will make nine million pounds of water from the excess oxygen. Ccpoodle 15:55, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
I suggest to move the article to Terraforming of Venus by analogy with Colonization of Venus-- Nixer 09:17, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
I just removed this from the article:
It's uncited and doesn't seem plausible to me, but just in case anyone else has heard this proposal and can come up with references for it I'm putting it here in talk. Bryan 08:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Though there was talk of snagging a comet for extraterrestrial mining off Earth. It would also cause gravitational fluxutations. This may lead to a shortening of the day/night cycle.
They really would only need to shade the equator. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
File077 (
talk •
contribs)
20:04, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
The two linked PDFs to the NASA site do not work anymore and I can't find to where they moved. Can someone find them again?
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Terraforming_of_Venus&oldid=136168050#References
82.83.247.0 23:58, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Mdbrownmsw removed the following from this article:
"In a paper by Korycansky, Loughlin, and Adams, it is suggested that close flybys of sufficiently sized asteroids could be used to speed a planet's rotation. [1]"
Stating "Rotation - source does not discuss Terraforming of Venus, topic of this article."
Granted that as it stood, it didn't directly apply to the article, but the logical inference I made, and hadn't made explicit was that this procedure, as referenced in the article can be used to speed up the rotation of a planet, and is a technology much more readily accessible to our time than creating huge solar shades and mirrors. Could it be reworked and re-incorporated into the article? Bo-Lingua 02:38, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Why consider only calcium and magnesium metals when sodium and potassium are also available? These alkali metals are very reactive with carbon dioxide and would appear in any ocean that might be created later. In the right proportions they would be vital to any marine life that might be sown, and potassium would be a welcome addition to any soils that develop. - Tony ( talk) 09:56, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Should the name of this article not be "Terraforming Venus" or "Terraformation of Venus"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.36.223 ( talk) 12:04, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
The article does not mention the most obvious solution: move the entire Venus to Earth's orbit, but exactly to the opposite side of the Sun. This would get rid of the excessive light influx problem, which Venus currently suffers from due to its closeness to the Sun.
Of course, if you are mighty enough to do this, you are probably good enough to spin up Venus's day to 24 hours, the same as Earth's and add a strong magnetic field.
Venus is a better place than Mars, it is so Earth-equivalent in size, The Supreme Reason obviously intended it to serve as hummankind's second home. It would be a show of hubris not to do our utmost to accept this gift as quickly as possible! 82.131.210.162 ( talk) 13:13, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Drop some insulated space stations down there, run a tube up out of the atmosphere into space. Simply "poking a hole" in the balloon of an atmosphere is more than enough to cause very rapid outgassing. Simultaneous ( talk) 19:45, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Stirling engines on venus would work without even needing concentrators. Just set one out in the sun, and watch as it generates enough excess energy to pay for its trip. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine) Simultaneous ( talk) 19:45, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Establish a day/night light cycle shorter than Venus's current 116.75 day solar day.
Can we do without changing Venus rotation? Make a thick cloudy atmosphere with equal temperatures all around the Venusian globe, not unlike the current situation but much thinner and colder? -- Atitarev ( talk) 06:38, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
but it seems the only valid conclusion, the 'mirror-thing' sounds costly in the long term, and the fact is every precious ray from the sun counts, deflecting solar energy with atmospheric manipulation is incorrect for maximum biomass potential... it works as another bio-world, then there is less pressure on Mars to be a bio-world, it can be used mainly as a place for mining and machine-life, which is useful to have a machine-world close to bio-worlds, taking various pressures off the bio-worlds... adapting the chemistry of a bio-world to be compatible with the chemistry of mass-mining & machine-existence is as we know not easily done in the short term, as the visa-versa, yet, it can happen... yw — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.146.43.46 ( talk) 23:46, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
or one can use Mars as the bio-world... either way there would be a significant # of self-contained bio-habitats on the other, for various purpose, but you don't necessarily need to set both on fast-track terraforming programs, one could be set fast-track for machine-life, mining, industry, & bio-support instead, with an option for medium or long term terraforming... the decision which to use as which has many calculations, with many variables not even considered, more geologic data for both would help, & feasibility of access reports for various components of interest taking to consideration modifications that would be carried out to the world, then there is the lack of reports of efficiency calculations to creating bio-worlds dissimilar in this or that respect from Earth chemistry, altho in this situation something similar that is close to the primal-settlement on Earth is more likely 'useful', efficient what have you, can't help but mention the lack of full solar-system-utilization reports as being contrary to making accurate calculations, although those are tough without more geologic data from a variety of objects, & other data, still, primitive reports are useful, or what about the lack of greater-system planning? calculations on all nearest systems? Ooma Huntress-Protectress ( talk) 01:21, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
we may further contend, altho counter-argument best prepared, at least at 1st, Mars is more suitable for a multiplicity of "contained" bio-habitats, rather than a connected planetary ecosystem, as in manner of location & gravitational resistance more suitable for launch further out system, thence allowing a variety of bio-permutations to be practiced for allowance & tolerances otherwhere Ooma Huntress-Protectress ( talk) 03:54, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
as well, in terms of launch back earthwards, of bioform developments deemed suitable & of need, Mars enacts a reasonably close & gravitation-eased companion as EarthMoon bio-habitats & laboratories Ooma Huntress-Protectress ( talk) 04:01, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
I hate to be a stick in the mud here, especially since this is actually a cool and decently written article (although, stylistically, it could still use some copy editing). It's clear to me however, that the subject matter here is nothing more then science-fiction... It's good, interesting, and cool hard sci-fi, and I enjoyed reading it, but... it's still sci-fi. Are the stake holders in this article really certain that this is a credible article as is? The one issue that spring immediately to my mind, which I dont' see any mention of at all, is the total lack of a Venusian magnetosphere (which, theoretically, is one major reason for the runaway greenhouse effect on Venus...). I'm not saying that this article shouldn't exist (I'm likely one of the most inclusionist editors on Wikipedia), but I am saying that this article definately needs to be balanced with a more realistic view.
I hate to do this, but in order to better illustrate what I'm talking about I'm going to mark up the current article with a bunch of {{
fact}} and other inline marks as needed. my normal mode of editing is to remove them whenever I can, but... I'm not adding the tags willy-nilly. I really thing that attention is neede dwhere I've added the tags. I hope that those of you who have shepherded this article to this point will be motivated to improve the article rather then become discouraged.
(actually, I stopped after the Solar Shades section. If most of those are taken care of, we can address the rest of the article later)
—
Ω (
talk)
03:28, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
Two reasons Venus may not have a magnetic dynamo and plate tectonics may be affected by the addition of an ocean. That is, tectonic lubrication (which I'm told is important) and the induction of convection due to a thermal gradient in the core (which would be affected by the changing geology). This is pure speculation on my part, but has anyone seen anything that looks into the effect of such massive changes in this way? naturalnumber ( talk) 23:39, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Crash (gently) a comet like Hale-Bopp into Venus... problem solved. http://solar-center.stanford.edu/art/comet.html. Probably could be done in our lifetime. Steer a comet with a controlled heat source ... exploiting the reserves of reactive gasses in the comet itself. Outgassing=thrust. Simultaneous ( talk) 18:08, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
But isn't terraforming a very long-term process anyway?-- 135.196.181.166 ( talk) 12:45, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
could be cheaper import method, as shipping on craft between celestial objects is pricey, so is offloading goods onto small asteroids using them as the shipment craft, not much would be shipped except a few things valuable enough, certainly not for a while, information is the main thing that would be shipped for quite some time Ooma Huntress-Protectress ( talk) 01:48, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
Given sufficiently advanced technology to construct rigid towers from the surface to above the top of the atmosphere, there's a way to get a 'double shot' from using mass drivers at their tops to export excess atmosphere and speed up the rotation.
The first energy addition would come from capturing the kinetic energy of the millions of incoming pressure tanks filled with compressed hydrogen, oxygen or ordinary water. The emptied tanks would then be filled with compressed carbon dioxide and hurled outwards to comets brought in to a Solar orbit between Earth and Venus. The CO2 would be vented out there and the tanks refilled to send back. Think of giants repeatedly catching and pitching baseballs, with each catch and pitch pushing the giant back a little. More kinetic energy transfer could come from loads of cargo staying on Venus. Of course such mass drivers would require large amounts of energy, most likely nuclear power plants on top of the towers. If 'simply' exporting most of the atmosphere using mass drivers could bring Venus up to a 30 day rotation, reversing the process to transfer energy via incoming loads caught by the mass drivers ought to get the rotation going a bit faster, perhaps 20 days. Depends on how much mass would be imported. Upon reaching the end of the project, fire all the tanks in at the top designed catch speed then send them to the surface for recycling into various stuff. Keep a few of the better condition ones for the museums. The towers could remain for use as space elevators and over time the mass drivers, still being used for interplanetary cargo, would continue speeding up the rotation. If it ever gets to 24 hours, switch to launching and catching half the loads in each direction.
The last thing Venus needs for terraforming is *more atmosphere*. Aerobraking random chunks of natural space ice could cause extra work for getting rid of undesired gasses, though any useless gas added that way would give more mass for the mass driver system to kick away and make the final day shorter. The basic composition to aim for would be approximately 70% Nitrogen, 20% Oxygen, 4% water vapor and 0.03% carbon dioxide, and little enough of the total to produce close to one Earth atmosphere pressure. Of course that still leaves the need for extreme SPF sunscreen if speeding up the rotation doesn't jumpstart a magnetic field.
A different method would use the same style of towers as the mass driver system, but would have nuclear rocket engines using the atmospheric gas as reaction mass. The gas would have to be accelerated significantly above escape velocity and only at points in the rotation where the likelyhood of Venus scooping it back up in its orbit would be minimal. Once started the process might work without requiring any moving parts, giant nuclear powered siphons. For even more kick, antimatter powered venturi siphon jets. Fire a high speed jet of fluid through a venturi and fluid can be sucked through an opening in the side of the venturi throat. (One mundane application is a water siphon jet used to empty water bed mattresses. Using antimatter to empty a water bed = insanity.) The antimatter reaction with the atmospheric gas to create the jet would need to be tightly controlled. any unused antimatter would rather dramatically 'erode' pieces of the equipment. Another problem with that method might be radiation. Wouldn't want anything getting in the path of the exhaust streams.
but the issue is you don't necessarily really ideally want to lose whats in the atmosphere, i'll take a look, but 'adding more' to Venus by crashing things into it to adjust the rotation can be the ideal for full value, if thats cost-effective & manageable to do so, then you capture the components of the atmosphere you wish somewhere else and use them so as desired... yw — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.146.43.46 ( talk) 23:57, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
Completely crazy spin-up method. Make two really long cables, one end of each attached to opposing points on the equator. Wrap around Venus several times then pull, gently. What to pull them with? Who knows, some sort of rig that can thrust away for a very long time. Handling the cables as they fully unwind and have to be detached could be quite a 'fun' problem. Re-attaching and re-winding for another pull if needed would be even more fun. If anyone wants to use this or any of the two ideas above it in a SciFi story, be my guest. This third one might have potential for a comedy.
First of all, if we used nuclear bombs to hit Venus at an appropriate angle with a couple of KBOs, would that speed up its rotation? Second, don't the tidal forces generated by the Moon at least partly help keep Earth's core spinning? If so, then if we put a rather large body, such as Eris, in orbit around Venus, would that restart its dynamo? FlamingCobra ( talk) 23:29, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
Wondering if there have been any studies on terraforming with nanotechnology. At the rate our tech is progressing, there's a good possibility of having functional nanites by the end of the century. They could take the carbon from the atmosphere and compress/store it (maybe use all the carbon to create a space elevator).
Also, what impact would dropping a large asteroid/comet onto Venus have (assuming it was frozen and made of something like hydrogen)? 216.160.181.242 ( talk) 19:19, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
In the section about adding hydrogen to Venus's atmosphere, we read "possibly from an extrasolar source" Why?? Would be far cheaper to get hydrogen fm eg. Saturn. May I delete that part? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.70.58.119 ( talk) 05:37, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
How practical would terraforming Venus be?
Whatever means are used to 'block most incoming solar energy' (at least until the cooling process had got underway) and to create 'heat sinks into space' (for want of a better term): how long would it take the surface to cool down and create a surface that even a heat-resistant robot could move around on?
To the casual observer Mars seems much more practical - setting up the machinery to create Terran-life-supporting atmospheres,' 'water recycling plants' and 'dust storm protection' would be the main requirements and within current technological capacities.
Did any earlier science fiction predict boiling Venus? Jackiespeel ( talk) 21:39, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
It would be practical with current technology to establish a computer and robot run mineral extraction base on Mars; and Hubble 2, signal repeater and enhancer, and even a spacecraft repair and replacement facility on Eris or similar. The costs, resources required, and 'the complicated calculations and organisation involved' would be a fraction of that required for cooling Venus down.
Is there a suitable place to decamp to to discuss this thread of future science and technology? Jackiespeel ( talk) 10:53, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
Sulfur Dioxide is a very convenient refrigerant. How nice of Venus to have an enormous quantity of it in its atmosphere. If we can cool the whole planet, we have a lot less to worry about.
Venus also receives TWICE the amount of sunlight. How convenient for solar powered technologies that will provide Terra-forming functions. CR5 ( http://phys.org/news178203219.html) will provide necessary fuels and more, although it would be nice if we could know if Venus contained the same amount of iron oxide as Mars. Additionally, if we can make the atmosphere of Venus full of oxygen at the right pressure and temperature - we MAY conjecture that unpaired hydrogen floating in outer space can eventually supply the planet with water. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.254.116.35 ( talk) 15:59, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
If the atmosphere was heated up much further, applying some highly efficient greenhouse gases or space mirrors, could that make the atmosphere disappear into space rather quickly (like a boiling tub of water), i.e. over a few millennia? If much of it was gone, the process would slow down anyway due to loss of "natural" greenhouse gases and a controlled cooling should occur. However: How much of all the carbon and sulfur dioxide would end up on earth? Meerwind7 ( talk) 17:05, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
User:Mevagiss apparently believes inaccurate language such as his is preferable. I disagree. In the first place, there is no "opposite" side of Venus; the planet rotates. In the second place, shade is not "cast"; it is created. Shadows are cast. In the third place, I'm not at all sure cooling is "achieved" in this context as much as "effected" (& I should have corrected that mistake, but didn't...). As for "The construction", that's being fussy; "the" isn't grammatically necessary. TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 18:50, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
You are welcome to disagree, but the article is not yours to adjudicate on - see WP:OWN. The points you make are subjective and your criticism simply opens you to the same responses from others-- Mevagiss ( talk) 10:06, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
Can they cool venus by introducing Iodine to the atmosphere to interact with the sulphuric-acid atmosphere for an endothermic reaction? The result is oxygen and hydrogen, which we could use as a fuel, to run machinery that also combines these to make water, introducing clouds to cool the surface. — Preceding unsigned comment added by File077 ( talk • contribs) 20:07, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
I think I've added sufficient citations that the tag "This article possibly contains original research. (September 2015)" can be removed, so I did so. If you disagree, feel free to mark the appropriate sections, and I'll try to put in citations. (there certainly are places where I'd like to add some original research here, or at least some editorializing, with remarks like "this idea doesn't seem practical"-- but I tried to avoid that temptation.) Michael-Zero ( talk) 05:18, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
If the effort (eg delta-MV) for the various proposals have been estimated it would be great to see them so the ideas can be ranked by some proxy for cost or practicality. - Rod57 ( talk) 00:12, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
In light of the research on Mars of a magnetic shield on L1 orbit. Can someone find a credible source for the calculation of the size/cost of a solar heat shield at the L1 orbit. Maybe achieving similar heat radiation levels as the Earth. Space sunshade Space flight forum on the subject Quantanew ( talk) 08:47, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
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Perhaps detonating hundreds if not thousands of hydrogen bombs in Venus's stratospere might speedily tame the atmospere 2600:100E:B072:8C64:D8D0:573C:707D:9AD9 ( talk) 04:48, 31 March 2024 (UTC)