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pcurses had compile/dump programs, which in ncurses evolved to tic/infocmp
Other than ncurses, infocmp was developed at AT&T
untic appears to have been developed independently, and later incorporated by HP and others:
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help)Ross's mytinfo used tconv, as noted here (originally 1994):
Tedickey ( talk) 18:50, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Tedickey ( talk) 23:13, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
And even more importantly, attributes that may have a valid negative value!. Of which arguably the most common might be "xmc" ("magic cookie"), which on some older terminals can have a valid value of -1. Old_Wombat ( talk) 05:31, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
We must be talking about different Unixes. When I worked for the corporation and we first started with Unix, we had Adds Viewpoint terminals. The magic cookie value for this terminal was -1. So the terminfo value was xmc#-1.
Looks like that is no longer true, though. I note the latest man page for terminfo specifically says a positive number. Old_Wombat ( talk) 09:26, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Inspired by all this nostalgia, I took a look at some of my old emails. Looks like the -1 value was a hack that was put in specifically for some problems relating to RM-COBOL. Gosh, that was a long time ago. The CPU in question was the old 16-bit Motorola 68000. Clearly none of this stuff is relevant now. Old_Wombat ( talk) 08:57, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Mr Tedickey, you should know that you removed correct information. Why do you do that? -- Schily ( talk) 16:55, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
An important improvement that is not mentioned is that a termcap definition was conceptually a single line. So when you wrote it out over multiple lines, you had to have backslashes in all but the last line, and the total number of characters (including all whitespaces) you were limited to whatever "linelength" was for your Unix de jour. So if, for example, your terminal had 16 function and other keys, and your linelength was say 1024 (a common value in pre-terminfo days), you may have had difficulty putting all of those attributes in. With terminfo, your source file size could be much greater and this problem did not occur.
Another important difference between termcap and terminfo was that in the former you could arbitrarily create attribute names and give them values; with terminfo, you could only include what tic (or whatever corresponding utility you had) supported. Old_Wombat ( talk) 09:19, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
OK, since it seems we all agree on these points, shall we move on and figure out how to include them? Tedickey, since you seem to be claiming some sort of quasi-owndership here, I defer to you, unless you want me to draft something. Old_Wombat ( talk) 07:51, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
The article contains a lot of claims that have never been verified and are just known by many people because they have been repeated many times.
Repeating unproven claims is however not what WP articles should rely on.
Let me give some examples: Termcap stores all information in a single flat file as human readable ASCII while Terminfo stores binary files in a directory hierarchy. The latter was faster in 1980 with the UNIX V7 filesystem used by AT&T but today it is definitely slower than reading a single large file. Given the fact that all entries of local importance have been moved to the top of the local termcap file and the fact that shells cache pre-parsed termcap files in their environment since more than 30 years, the claims about terminfo seem to be really outdated. Even the fact that the stack based cursor movement routine (the only real improvement in terminfo) may be better than termcap is no argument to prefer terminfo over termcap since the terminals that did need this feature have long gone into the junk yards and today people use emulated terminal windows that usually implement the ANSI control set. Schily ( talk) 10:11, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
Finally, what is really important for speed is not the initial parsing speed at program startup but the quality of the implementation of the screen update function. This is really slow in emacs(1) (now based on terminfo), better in vi(1) (available in both flavors terminfo/termcap) and significantly faster in ved(1) that is termcap based. But even this is invisible to users with the computers from today as nobody uses a real ASCII terminal connected over a 9600 baud serial line anymore. Schily ( talk) 10:31, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
Mary Ann Horton was very important to the development of this software, but most of this work was published under her deadname. MOS:DEADNAME suggests crediting the author like "Mary Horton (credited as Mark Horton)". But Horton is mentioned several times throughout the article, each time using the Deadname. If every instance of "Mark Horton" is changed to "Mary Horton (credited as Mark Horton)", it seems like that would draw excessive attention to Horton's gender identity, which seems contrary to the spirit of MOS:DEADNAME. Is there a better way to do this? Would it be acceptable to use "(credited as Mark Horton)" only the first time it's mentioned in this article, perhaps? I'm not aware of any guidance more specific than MOS:DEADNAME. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gnebulon ( talk • contribs) 13:43, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
So in absence of a stated preference from Horton for the contrary, their current name is their primary name in this article. I don't see a reason to repeat the name outside the first mention. For the name in the reference itself, what Ijackson did seems to be the best solution per the MOS.Outside the main biographical article, generally do not discuss in detail changes of a person's name or gender presentation unless pertinent. Where a person's gender may come as a surprise, explain it on first occurrence, without overemphasis. Avoid confusing constructions (Jane Doe fathered a child) by rewriting (e.g., Jane Doe became a parent). In articles on works or other activity by a living trans or non-binary person before transition, use their current name as the primary name (in prose, tables, lists, infoboxes, etc.), unless they prefer their former name be used for past events. If they were notable under the name by which they were credited for the work or other activity, provide it in a parenthetical or footnote on first reference; add more parentheticals or footnotes only if needed to avoid confusion.
Nil Einne ( talk) 12:35, 31 October 2021 (UTC)In source citations, do not remove names of authors, or references to former names in titles of works. If the author is notable, the current name may be given, for example as "X (writing as Y)". Do not replace or supplement a person's former name with a current name if the two names have not been publicly connected and connecting them would out the person.
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
pcurses had compile/dump programs, which in ncurses evolved to tic/infocmp
Other than ncurses, infocmp was developed at AT&T
untic appears to have been developed independently, and later incorporated by HP and others:
{{
cite web}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help){{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help){{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)Ross's mytinfo used tconv, as noted here (originally 1994):
Tedickey ( talk) 18:50, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Tedickey ( talk) 23:13, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
And even more importantly, attributes that may have a valid negative value!. Of which arguably the most common might be "xmc" ("magic cookie"), which on some older terminals can have a valid value of -1. Old_Wombat ( talk) 05:31, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
We must be talking about different Unixes. When I worked for the corporation and we first started with Unix, we had Adds Viewpoint terminals. The magic cookie value for this terminal was -1. So the terminfo value was xmc#-1.
Looks like that is no longer true, though. I note the latest man page for terminfo specifically says a positive number. Old_Wombat ( talk) 09:26, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Inspired by all this nostalgia, I took a look at some of my old emails. Looks like the -1 value was a hack that was put in specifically for some problems relating to RM-COBOL. Gosh, that was a long time ago. The CPU in question was the old 16-bit Motorola 68000. Clearly none of this stuff is relevant now. Old_Wombat ( talk) 08:57, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Mr Tedickey, you should know that you removed correct information. Why do you do that? -- Schily ( talk) 16:55, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
An important improvement that is not mentioned is that a termcap definition was conceptually a single line. So when you wrote it out over multiple lines, you had to have backslashes in all but the last line, and the total number of characters (including all whitespaces) you were limited to whatever "linelength" was for your Unix de jour. So if, for example, your terminal had 16 function and other keys, and your linelength was say 1024 (a common value in pre-terminfo days), you may have had difficulty putting all of those attributes in. With terminfo, your source file size could be much greater and this problem did not occur.
Another important difference between termcap and terminfo was that in the former you could arbitrarily create attribute names and give them values; with terminfo, you could only include what tic (or whatever corresponding utility you had) supported. Old_Wombat ( talk) 09:19, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
OK, since it seems we all agree on these points, shall we move on and figure out how to include them? Tedickey, since you seem to be claiming some sort of quasi-owndership here, I defer to you, unless you want me to draft something. Old_Wombat ( talk) 07:51, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
The article contains a lot of claims that have never been verified and are just known by many people because they have been repeated many times.
Repeating unproven claims is however not what WP articles should rely on.
Let me give some examples: Termcap stores all information in a single flat file as human readable ASCII while Terminfo stores binary files in a directory hierarchy. The latter was faster in 1980 with the UNIX V7 filesystem used by AT&T but today it is definitely slower than reading a single large file. Given the fact that all entries of local importance have been moved to the top of the local termcap file and the fact that shells cache pre-parsed termcap files in their environment since more than 30 years, the claims about terminfo seem to be really outdated. Even the fact that the stack based cursor movement routine (the only real improvement in terminfo) may be better than termcap is no argument to prefer terminfo over termcap since the terminals that did need this feature have long gone into the junk yards and today people use emulated terminal windows that usually implement the ANSI control set. Schily ( talk) 10:11, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
Finally, what is really important for speed is not the initial parsing speed at program startup but the quality of the implementation of the screen update function. This is really slow in emacs(1) (now based on terminfo), better in vi(1) (available in both flavors terminfo/termcap) and significantly faster in ved(1) that is termcap based. But even this is invisible to users with the computers from today as nobody uses a real ASCII terminal connected over a 9600 baud serial line anymore. Schily ( talk) 10:31, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
Mary Ann Horton was very important to the development of this software, but most of this work was published under her deadname. MOS:DEADNAME suggests crediting the author like "Mary Horton (credited as Mark Horton)". But Horton is mentioned several times throughout the article, each time using the Deadname. If every instance of "Mark Horton" is changed to "Mary Horton (credited as Mark Horton)", it seems like that would draw excessive attention to Horton's gender identity, which seems contrary to the spirit of MOS:DEADNAME. Is there a better way to do this? Would it be acceptable to use "(credited as Mark Horton)" only the first time it's mentioned in this article, perhaps? I'm not aware of any guidance more specific than MOS:DEADNAME. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gnebulon ( talk • contribs) 13:43, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
So in absence of a stated preference from Horton for the contrary, their current name is their primary name in this article. I don't see a reason to repeat the name outside the first mention. For the name in the reference itself, what Ijackson did seems to be the best solution per the MOS.Outside the main biographical article, generally do not discuss in detail changes of a person's name or gender presentation unless pertinent. Where a person's gender may come as a surprise, explain it on first occurrence, without overemphasis. Avoid confusing constructions (Jane Doe fathered a child) by rewriting (e.g., Jane Doe became a parent). In articles on works or other activity by a living trans or non-binary person before transition, use their current name as the primary name (in prose, tables, lists, infoboxes, etc.), unless they prefer their former name be used for past events. If they were notable under the name by which they were credited for the work or other activity, provide it in a parenthetical or footnote on first reference; add more parentheticals or footnotes only if needed to avoid confusion.
Nil Einne ( talk) 12:35, 31 October 2021 (UTC)In source citations, do not remove names of authors, or references to former names in titles of works. If the author is notable, the current name may be given, for example as "X (writing as Y)". Do not replace or supplement a person's former name with a current name if the two names have not been publicly connected and connecting them would out the person.