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Bozcaada is the official name of the island and internationally recognized as such. For instance if someone wants to send a letter and writes "Tenedos" as the address, then the letter will be returned. (If there is a return address) This is also the case even when someone writes the official name Bozcaada along the obsolete name "Tenedos".
The same applies to Gökçeada the official name of the island and also internationally recognized as such. And not the obsolete name of "Imros". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.104.76.42 ( talk) 09:19, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
I do not get this, how can the name of this island NOT be the name of the island. Its name is Bozcaada. It is not a historic name, not the "other" name, but its only official name. The name you would use if you want your mail to get there. What part is not clear? How does Wikipedia and editors allow this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.241.153.82 ( talk) 03:27, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
I moved the page back to Tenedos, as that name is by far the more commonly used in English source, as can clearly be seen by comparing the results of this [1] search to these [2] [3]. Athenean ( talk) 21:50, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
So what about these: [4], [5]? (Note: English pages only) I hate to repeat myself, but this is not a competition on which name that gets the most hits in various google-searches. The question here is wether or not the official name - Bozcaada - is well established in the English language or not. And it clearly is, so why are we at all discussing this issue? WK-en ( talk) 06:47, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
Tenedos is a historical name just like New Amsterdam for New York or Lutetia for Paris. If the article were for the medieval history of the island the name of the article may be History of Tenedos. But this article is about a modern settlement and district. The official and popular name is Bozca Ada (or Bozcaada). So I moved the name to Bozca Ada. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 11:08, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
Reply to above remarks:
Summing up so far:
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 01:45, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
Tenedos → Bozcaada — Procedural listing. Not personally convinced myself, but let's have a regular discussion here and see where it goes. For initial arguments, see above. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:49, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
It is comparatively easy to find maps and tour guides that say Bozcaada, as it is comparatively easy to find maps and guides that use Firenze. In both cases, the reason is that the local signs (in Turkish or Italian) use the local forms; but we are neither, and our purposes are not the same. We should use Florence, none the less; other works of general reference do.
Works of general reference do use Izmir for the post-1922 city; that's the chief reason we should do so. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:23, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
The island and the town ara separate entities deserving their own articles. I am awaiting for any objections. If there is no serious objection, I will start the article 'Bozcaada' for the town. Filanca ( talk) 21:03, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Tenedos → Bozcaada – per WP:COMMONNAME & User modern names. Relisting. - GTBacchus( talk) 22:00, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
When there are many "derived words", Books Ngram Viewer is problematic.
Tenedos is well-known name since Herodotus' era. Results of researchs on various search engines include "derived words" such as HMS Tenedos (HMS Tenedos (1812), HMS Tenedos (1870), former HMS Tenedos, HMS Tenedos (H04), Tenedos frigate), Russian Tenedos class frigate, Greek minelayer Tenedos, USS Tenedos, Fort Tenedos, spider " Tenedos", Tenedos Bay, etc.......... in addition to historical contexts such as Tenedos in Ilyad (i.e. Lord Supreme of Tenedos), Battle of Tenedos.
as seat of a second-order administrative division:
Bozcaada (Approved), Boğçaada (Variant), Tenedos (Variant)
as island:
Bozcaada (Approved) ada (Generic), Bokcha Adasi (Variant), Bozdzhaada Island (Variant), Tenédos,Nísos (Variant) Tenedos Island (Variant)
I think GeoNames Search is very helpful but it is not almighty.
But I think this result includes a number of books and articles written in other language such as Turkish language. So we re-researched with adding word island:
In this situation, we can consider both Tenedos and Bozcaada is common name. And according to Use modern names, we'd better chose Bozcaada.
Takabeg ( talk) 03:55, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
User:Athenean made mistakes:
About accuracy and inaccuracy of google books, see: Eretnids#Requested move
And you claims that the name "Bozcaada" is a post-1970 invention. But this is wrong information = invention of User:Athenean.
See:
Gökçeada is a post-1970 invention but "Bozcaada" (Bozja Ada, Bozdja Ada) is not invented name.
As long as I know, formerly Tenedos is more common name of this island (not only historical usage but also contemporary usage), but now Bozcaada is more common for contemporary usage.
-- Takabeg ( talk) 02:57, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
HMS Tenedos (HMS Tenedos (1812), HMS Tenedos (1870), former HMS Tenedos, HMS Tenedos (H04), Tenedos frigate), Russian Tenedos class frigate, Greek minelayer Tenedos, USS Tenedos, Fort Tenedos, spider " Tenedos", Tenedos Bay, Battle of Tenedos.
from 436 Tenedos / 407 Bozcaada.
And we must exclude historical usage such as
Now I think you understand that Bozcaada is more common name of this island for modern usage ( Use modern names).
-- Takabeg ( talk) 03:49, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Of course, in mythological and historical (ie, history before the 15th century) books using the name "Tenedos" makes more sense since that would be the name used then. That would explain many search results for "Tenedos". Filanca ( talk) 15:20, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
To illustrate my point above (ie, "in mythological and historical books using the name "Tenedos" makes more sense") more clearly, it is like Istanbul being called Constantinople or Byzantium in a book about Byzantine history. Or, Mexico City called Tenochtitlan -- in books about the Aztec period, Tenochtitlan will always outnumber Mexico City. Therefore, when looking at which name is used more frequently, we must not count the historical uses and meanings. Fortunately, Google Scholar has classified its articles according to the subject matter, so it is possible to exclude the category "Social Sciences, Arts, and Humanities". Thus searching scientific articles published in the 21st century yields 274 results for Bozcaada versus 142 for Tenedos. Clearly, the preferred name in English for natural and social sciences (except history) is Bozcaada in our day. The name Tenedos will always be used in history books referring to the island or when referring to HMS Tenedos, but just so. I agree with Takabeg on that we must adapt the modern usage in the encyclopedia article. Filanca ( talk) 17:59, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
There are two problems with a book search:
If we limit our search to books published from year 2000 onwards 'Tenedos+island' drops to 2,160 from 20,200 overall, almost one in ten. The same limit decreases results for 'Bozcaada+island' to 423 from 873, only about a half. This is a clear indication of Bozcaada becoming more popular in books of 21st century. Sampling the individual books, most of 'Tenedos' books publshed from year 2000 onwards are either history books or reprints of older ones. Bozcaada is used for a more diverse range of subjects and there are fewer reprtints (not surprizing, since this usage is relatively recent). To find out exactly which name is more popular when reprints and history books are stripped is a hard task requiring examination of all search results.
A Google Scholar search easily handles the issues: Dates in Scholar indicate mostly first publication and it is possible to filter according to the subject matter. As I indicated above, Bozcaada is more popular than Tenedos in the 21st century publications. Filanca ( talk) 09:49, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
Something also important is that wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and this means that scientific articles of 'all' fields should be taken into account. Alexikoua ( talk) 14:31, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
You may find the search result for Tenedos here and for Bozcaada here. As is seen, Bozcaada (163 results) is twice as popular as Tenedos (80 results). If you propose to include history as a subject matter in a search for current name popularity, you should consider that Mumbai is still referred to as Bombay for the colonial period and Mexico City as Tenochtitlan when speaking about the Aztec era. I don't think anyone would propose to use the name Istanbul when referring to the Byzantian city for the same matter. Filanca ( talk) 15:01, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
Once more: In order to decide on current usage we must not consider documents on history, since, due to the nature of their discipline of history, historians will use names that may have dropped out of usage in other fields. I hope this time it is clear enough. My examples (Tenochtitlan, Constantinople, Bombay) are intended for this point exactly. Nothing to do with their overall Google Scholar hit counts, which may be affected by a myriad of factors. And interesting enough, you do not speak about Mumbai above, which returns less hits than Bombay in Google Scholar like in the case of Bozcaada vs. Tenedos. Which increases my suspicion if you are really trying to understand me or putting up a trollish resistance. Filanca ( talk) 17:00, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
Columbia Encyclopedia, Webster and American Heritage are using Bozcaada and directing Tenedos queries to Bozcaada. Collins uses Tenedos. And according to WP:PLACE Use Modern Names, "For articles discussing the present, use the modern English name (or local name, if there is no established English name)" Filanca ( talk) 07:56, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Filanca ( talk) 19:17, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Arguments for the name change are dispersed among long comments so I feel a summary might be useful:
Bozcaada
[51] is twice more popular with 163 results than Tenedos
[52] with 77 results in 21st century scientific publications.
This trend is becoming more pronounced as time passes, same search for articles published in 2011 yields 15 results for Bozcaada [53] and no results for Tenedos [54] (the one result visible is about historical past of the island, not current use).
Columbia Encyclopedia
[55], Webster
[56], American Heritage
[57] and National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
[58] uses Bozcaada. Collins uses Tenedos.
These results are consistent with changing the name of the article according to Wikipedia policy WP:COMMONNAME and guideline about using modern names. Filanca ( talk) 16:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
I do not think any of us would deny that even if a placename changes, its historical name would remain in use. Therefore, looking at publications about history can not be an indication about current name use although history is certainly a very respectable academic discipline. I have gone a further step and examined all articles published in 2011 and containing the word "Tenedos" in "Social Sciences, Arts, and Humanities" category. That is, to make sure we are not missing any non-history article, like an article on sociology or art. There were none, all of them were history or mythology articles. Clearly, the name is no longer used out of historical context. Filanca ( talk) 18:39, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
@Athanean:
The shortcomings of your search are:
1)We should not count books of history and mythology into account. Such books can never be indicative of current use since historical names will always be used.
2)We must differentiate new books while your search didn't. However, even if you introduced a date, Google Books might give a faulty result since there is no way to take first edition dates into account. It considers reprints as if new. Google Scholar is more reliable in that respect. They are new and never written as a travel guide.
3)We must exclude things like "hms tenedos", "fort tenedos", "nea tenedos", "llc", etc.
Major modern (21st century) encyclopedias and dictionaries are also accepting Bozcaada. Google Scholar searches indicate an ever increasing use of Bozcaada year by year, culminating to no use of Tenedos in articles published in 2011 except in historical context. Even, contrary to those evidence, we assumed that Bozcaada was not yet the established name, acccording to WP:PLACE Use Modern Names, "For articles discussing the present, use the modern English name (or local name, if there is no established English name)"
Filanca ( talk) 18:30, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
We have to take history into account only in a historical context. When speaking of the modern time, modern names count. This is why Wikipedia guideline says WP:PLACE Use Modern Names, "For articles discussing the present, use the modern English name (or local name, if there is no established English name)". Otherwise, it would not be possible to switch from Bombay [63] (268,000 results) to Mumbai (181,000 results) - [64] both searches 21st century. Filanca ( talk) 20:29, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
So Tenedos is an English name? Seriously? TheDarkLordSeth ( talk) 23:52, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi, everyone. The expression "a campaign of state-sponsored discrimination" was added this edits by User:Athenean. Alexis Alexandris had never used such terms. Is the expression "a campaign of state-sponsored discrimination" is appropriate and encyclopedic for neutral encyclopedia ? Thank you. -- Takabeg ( talk) 07:34, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Athanean's edit is misleading. His expression "from ancient times" is vague. Archeology indicates first settlement on the island predates Greek Dark Ages at least 1500 years. He assumes a continuous Greek settlement and majority on the island throughout the history until mid 20th Century, which is very difficult to prove. At least we know that there was a considerable time at the end of 14th-beginning of 15th century when the island was uninhabited. His expression "primarily inhabited by Greeks" is also vague, 19th century censuses indicate a 2/3 Greek and 1/3 Turkish population. His source Alexandris is not very reliable: He claims first mosque on the islands was built in 1965 while Şemseddin Sami writes there are three mosques at the mid 19-th century. The oldest, Yali Mosque dates about 1500. On the other hand, I agree with what Athanean wrote about discrimination. However, the ethnic history of the island should not be the first paragraph in a developed article, especially when there is a dedicated section. Although I corrected Athanean's edit on where it stays, I think this should be moved down. Filanca ( talk) 17:34, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Correction: As per TheDarkLordSeth, I suggest rephrasing the sentence in congruence with the source, Alexandris. Filanca ( talk) 18:03, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Maybe I should've made myself more clear: Alexandris is not reliable since some of what he says contradicts historical information. The date he gives for the "first mosque on the islands", 1965 is not correct for either island and is late about 450 years. He makes generalizations for the two islands like saying "they had overwhelming Greek majorities" while this was only true for Imbros. Of course some information Alexandris gives may be true, but we would rather confirm those from another source given those errors and his political language. In any case, the article contains information attributed to Alexandris but not present in his book. For example, he does not say "schools were required to teach exclusively in Turkish" but this is attributed to him. Even if we will use Alexandris as a source, we must make this properly. Sevinç and Takaoğlu are archeologists and their article was published in here, a joint publication of the Univeristies of Tübingen and the University of Cincinnatti. Prof. Takaoğlu is from Çanakkale University, you may find information about him here. Clavijo is certainly a very valuable source about the island along with Pero Tafur, both confirm the island was abandoned after the War of Chioggia. Secondary sources also indicate evacuation of the island, check here (p.204) and here. Filanca ( talk) 07:57, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Alexis Alexandris, "The Identity Issue of The Minorities In Greece An Turkey", in Hirschon, Renée (ed.), Crossing the Aegean: An Appraisal of the 1923 Compulsory Population Exchange Between Greece and Turkey, Berghahn Books, 2003, p. 120.
Takabeg ( talk) 08:47, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
No, Athanean, he was not speaking about Imbros only when he said "the first Turkish mosque on the islands was built in 1965". This may not be correct for Imbros alone, either, see [67]. "An overwhelming majority" does not seem like the correct way to put it when speaking about a 2/3 majority. Alexandris is also vague and speaking of two very different islands in his generalized statements. Filanca ( talk) 19:25, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I think we have proved Alexandris gave wrong (or misleadingly vague) information two times in one page. If we still use his work as a source, I suggest to be careful and confirm what he says from other sources. More importantly, we should not cite him for information not present in his work. Filanca ( talk) 19:25, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I have added Greek Pathriarchate's 1912 census results with reference to Alexandris since nobody else seems to mention that. However I hope to confirm that information from another source given Alexandris' reliability. Filanca ( talk) 21:45, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
In Bozcaada (Tenedos), There are dangerous rocks off this little town and mole of Tenedos, where the Turkish fort flies its red flag, and the little mosque... (Inside Sebastopol, and experiences in camp, Chapman & Hall, 1856, p. 87.) Takabeg ( talk) 11:54, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
About Imbros (Imroz, Gökçeada), Alexandris wrote Interestingly, the first Turkish mosque in the islands was built in 1965 on an expropriated Greek Orthodox vakıf (communal property) in Panagia (now renamed Çınarlı), the capital of Imbros, and was given the name Fatih Camisi (the Conqueror's mosque). But..... according to this website,
Takabeg ( talk) 12:41, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
In addition to Takabeg: The article already documents the Köprülü Mosque in Bozcaada/Tenedos was built in 1657. It was built on the ruins of an older mosque demolished by Venetians. That is probably the oldest standing temple building in use on the island, considering the church was built in the 19th Century. However, there is also the discarded mosque in the castle, in fact two of them, one ruined, other standing but not in use since the Ottoman garrison left. At least one of those two may be predating Köprülü mosque. Besides, the mosque that was destroyed by Venetians should be even older. I have seen at least one reference for that and hope to add it in the article later on. However those facts have little significance for Alexandris, whose aim seems to be making a point about the suffering of the Greek community. I am not criticizing his aim but the way he works. He is biased and should be taken with care even if he may be a good source at times. Filanca ( talk) 15:42, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
And why do we care about Alexandris' opinion if a 59% majority is "great" or "overwhelming"? Alexikoua reverted my edit saying it was a referenced information therefore should not be deleted, but should we add well-documented yet insignificant information to the encyclopedia? I will not touch Takabeg's neutralized expression (thanks to him) although I still feel Alesandris' comment looks out of place. Unless, we are after documenting his bias (is 59% majority great? Overwhelming? Come on!) Filanca ( talk) 15:51, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
Alexandris is also proven wrong about assuming a continuous Greek majority on the island throughout its human settlement until the 20th century. Not only the island remained empty for 75 years between 1381-1455, but the figures indicate a clear Turkish majority after the island is repopulated until the 19th century. Besides, the first known settlement on the island predates the Greek Dark Ages about 1500 years. Since he overlooks so many facts, his motives are confirmed to be political and biased. Filanca ( talk) 10:22, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
I find this news on a Turkish newspaper. http://www.evrensel.net/news.php?id=5423 It basically states that during 1960s horrible things happened against greeks. The crulties, seizing of their properties, assimilation etc.. and eventually in the news the Çanakkale human rights association minister Kenan Döner states that, the pressure put on greeks now become to an unbelivable point. People even can not tolerate the greek cemetaries. In one night they broke all the gravestones of the greeks. Athenean you don't need to look at greek sources if you just look at Turkish resources you can find more then enough information. I will put the information on the page when I have time to translate and summerize the article in an efficient way. Ali55te ( talk) 19:29, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
There is a recent edit in the article adding the following:
There is no indication of an ecological disaster on the island in any other resource. Today 40% of the island is cultivated and 80% of the cultivated lands are vineyards (see Brebbia&Beriatos p.338-339 [
http://books.google.com/books?id=uojOg7iXZZAC&
pg=PA339&lpg=PA329&ots=GAvVRx3Cuc&dq=bozcaada+agriculture&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html] Therefore it is impossible for the island to have had 90% of its cultivated lands destroyed -- and replaced by various constructions(?). There is some sign of decline in the vineyards in the last three decades (see same source, p. 339) but it is not related with an ownership regulation but development of tourism and tax laws. It is also on a much smaller scale and started about 20 years after claimed by this edit. In fact, during the period where the above edit claims the "ecological disaster", wine production in the island increased, especiall after 1956 (same source, p.339). Between 1960-80, 13 wine production plants operated. Better use of machinery increased productivity. Since wine producers used grapes on the island, this increase would have been impossible with 90% of the cultivated lands destroyed.
The source given for this edit is not about agriculture or economy. It is a political book about Turkish-Greek relations written by a Greek author (see full text here, p.139). It speaks of Imbros and Bozcaada together in this matter. This is not a correct nor a clear way to indicate a fact about one of the islands but not something new to users participated in discussions here, see above for false claims about both islands having an overwhelming Greek majority until 20th century (which is only true for Imbros), both islands' Turkish names changed after 1970 (again only true for Imbros), both islands not having a mosque until 1965 (not true for either island but the first mosque on Bozcaada probably predates the 19th century mosque in Imbros about 300 years). Imbros and Bozcaada are two islands, althogh not very far from each other and both in Turkey, with different histories, ethnographies and economies. Speaking in generalizations proved to be misleading in the past.
I propose this edit to be deleted in view of the contradictory evidence. Filanca ( talk) 12:53, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
But if you have a closer look at the figures above, you will see that it is impossible that 90% of the cultivated lands in Bozcaada/Tenedos to be covered with concrete. Currently 40% of the island is being cultivated, most of the rest being used for herding, there is also a forest, beaches, dunes, the town and farm buildings. If this 40% is the remaining 10% after 90% of the cultivated lands were replaced with concrete, the irrational conclusion would be that prior to 1960, 400% of the island's whole surface was being cultivated! That means most of the farmers were working under sea. Although a type of seaweed is being served in the restaurants of the island as a meze, that would hardly count as agriculture. Joking aside, there is no large scale concrete structures on the island, and I hope you have also read how wine production soared after 1956 until 1980, which would be impossible by destroying vineyards. Check this book also. Although it is written in Turkish, you will be able to understand the land use map on p.103. Green: agriculture, blue: tourism, pink: conservation and yellow: settlement. Filanca ( talk) 21:07, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
And I do not contest that. However, jumping from the fact that there was expropriations to an 'ecological disaster' where 90% of arable land falling out of agricultural use and being covered with other structures is far fetched. Such an event is contradicting to other sources and what we know about the island's past and present. Filanca ( talk) 18:52, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
Instead of deleting, I took the liberty to re-write this part, contrasting it with the growth in wine production. 90% decrease in arable lands and expropriation of Greek farms kept, but I deleted the phrase "ecological disaster" since such a catastrophe, if true, would certainly have been reported by other sources. I don't think that it is contained in the original source, either. I hope this is acceptable for all. Filanca ( talk) 09:06, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
As I see the construction of a military base and an airport on previous cultivated lands in a small island are very likely to cause ecological disaster, so I reworded the specific part in order to become somewhat more balanced (ecological disaster vs wine production increase). I have the feeling that this paragraph should be moved back to 'economy'. Alexikoua ( talk) 20:45, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
If you check the Google Earth you can see that there is only one airstrip that's between 600 and 700 meters. This airstrip takes up a very small amount of space and is surrounded by farmlands. Assuming that this is the airstrip the British built, where is this other airstrip that Turks build over a vast amount of land? TheDarkLordSeth ( talk) 22:47, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
It would be much more constructive to not misuse sources though. Your link does not provide the information you claim it does. Moreover, you fail to address the points I've raised. TheDarkLordSeth ( talk) 12:24, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Everything is cited inside the text (ecological disaster, construction of airfield military base and appropriation of land owned by locals based on ethnicity). Another relevant fact that can be added is the prohibition to sell their wine production. Alexikoua ( talk) 13:23, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Alexikoua:
1) Your source says "a military base and an airport were constructed on these lands". One military base and one airport. Lands in plural. Which lands? Looking at the title, Imbros and Tenedos. This is one of the sources which speak of both islands in generalized statements. Generalizations about those islands proved to be wrong more than once in this page (remember post-1970 invented name, the first mosque of the "islands", etc.) Imbros and Bozcaada, although both in Turkey, are two islands with very different history and geography. Going back to your source, it is speaking of a single airport on one of the two islands.
2) The long paragraph mentioning the airport contains the word Imbros three times and Gökçeada one time. It contains "the island" 12 times. It never speaks of Tenedos or Bozcaada. There is no reason to doubt that it starts to speak about an airfield on Bozcaada, without naming it, while it speaks only of Imbros before and after.
3)
This document proves that the airport is scheduled to be built within Eight Five Yearly Development Plan which spans from 2001-2005 (page 190, "Çanakkale-Bozcaada Havaalanı"). That is long after the migration of Greeks of the island which mainly took place between 1960-1980.
4) If you look at the map on page 103 of
this book again, you will see that the "airfield" you found on the Google Maps lies in grids 7, 26 and 27, none of which are agricultural lands. If you read the Geography section of this article and a bit of a geography of the islanda, you will see that section (extreme west) of the island is covered with sand dunes. Google Maps also indicates there are no fields around the airfield you speak about. Agricultural lands lie due east and there is a pine forest in between.
5)
This book indicates how Greeks helped British to build the first airstrip by uprooting a vineyard on the island during the
Gallipoli Campaign. It is 800 yards long, looking at the map, almost as long as the airstrip you mention. Now, should we consider this as an evidence of Greeks disturbing the ecology of the island?
Filanca (
talk)
21:26, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
You are correct, I considered the map in the link you provided and it was centered on the western cape so I mistakenly considered the dirt road there. Sorry. This is plainly in grid 10, agricultural area. This explains one inconsistency in my mind: I thought it was highly probable that the current airstrip was built on the same area as the British one built during the WWI. Had it been near the western cape, there could hardly have been a vineyard uprooted during its construction, since that area is not suitable for farming. Being in the agricultural part of the island, current airstrip may still coincide with the old one. Now making some allowance for the premises, the dimensions of the airstrip are 700m x 100m =70,000 sq.m. = 7 hectares. Total area of the island is 36.7 sq.km. = 3760 hectares. Total arable land is 40% of that, 1500 hectares. Area of the airstrip is 0.47%, less than a half per cent of the agricultural lands. I suppose that is hardly a significant percentage that would lead to an 'ecological disaster'. Besides, it was done by the British forces first with help from Greek residents of the island. If there are any confiscations for this 21st century construction, that was long after most Greeks already left the island. Filanca ( talk) 18:21, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
Bozcaada is the official name of the island and internationally recognized as such. For instance if someone wants to send a letter and writes "Tenedos" as the address, then the letter will be returned. (If there is a return address) This is also the case even when someone writes the official name Bozcaada along the obsolete name "Tenedos".
The same applies to Gökçeada the official name of the island and also internationally recognized as such. And not the obsolete name of "Imros". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.104.76.42 ( talk) 09:19, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
I do not get this, how can the name of this island NOT be the name of the island. Its name is Bozcaada. It is not a historic name, not the "other" name, but its only official name. The name you would use if you want your mail to get there. What part is not clear? How does Wikipedia and editors allow this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.241.153.82 ( talk) 03:27, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
I moved the page back to Tenedos, as that name is by far the more commonly used in English source, as can clearly be seen by comparing the results of this [1] search to these [2] [3]. Athenean ( talk) 21:50, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
So what about these: [4], [5]? (Note: English pages only) I hate to repeat myself, but this is not a competition on which name that gets the most hits in various google-searches. The question here is wether or not the official name - Bozcaada - is well established in the English language or not. And it clearly is, so why are we at all discussing this issue? WK-en ( talk) 06:47, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
Tenedos is a historical name just like New Amsterdam for New York or Lutetia for Paris. If the article were for the medieval history of the island the name of the article may be History of Tenedos. But this article is about a modern settlement and district. The official and popular name is Bozca Ada (or Bozcaada). So I moved the name to Bozca Ada. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 11:08, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
Reply to above remarks:
Summing up so far:
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 01:45, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
Tenedos → Bozcaada — Procedural listing. Not personally convinced myself, but let's have a regular discussion here and see where it goes. For initial arguments, see above. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:49, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
It is comparatively easy to find maps and tour guides that say Bozcaada, as it is comparatively easy to find maps and guides that use Firenze. In both cases, the reason is that the local signs (in Turkish or Italian) use the local forms; but we are neither, and our purposes are not the same. We should use Florence, none the less; other works of general reference do.
Works of general reference do use Izmir for the post-1922 city; that's the chief reason we should do so. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:23, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
The island and the town ara separate entities deserving their own articles. I am awaiting for any objections. If there is no serious objection, I will start the article 'Bozcaada' for the town. Filanca ( talk) 21:03, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Tenedos → Bozcaada – per WP:COMMONNAME & User modern names. Relisting. - GTBacchus( talk) 22:00, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
When there are many "derived words", Books Ngram Viewer is problematic.
Tenedos is well-known name since Herodotus' era. Results of researchs on various search engines include "derived words" such as HMS Tenedos (HMS Tenedos (1812), HMS Tenedos (1870), former HMS Tenedos, HMS Tenedos (H04), Tenedos frigate), Russian Tenedos class frigate, Greek minelayer Tenedos, USS Tenedos, Fort Tenedos, spider " Tenedos", Tenedos Bay, etc.......... in addition to historical contexts such as Tenedos in Ilyad (i.e. Lord Supreme of Tenedos), Battle of Tenedos.
as seat of a second-order administrative division:
Bozcaada (Approved), Boğçaada (Variant), Tenedos (Variant)
as island:
Bozcaada (Approved) ada (Generic), Bokcha Adasi (Variant), Bozdzhaada Island (Variant), Tenédos,Nísos (Variant) Tenedos Island (Variant)
I think GeoNames Search is very helpful but it is not almighty.
But I think this result includes a number of books and articles written in other language such as Turkish language. So we re-researched with adding word island:
In this situation, we can consider both Tenedos and Bozcaada is common name. And according to Use modern names, we'd better chose Bozcaada.
Takabeg ( talk) 03:55, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
User:Athenean made mistakes:
About accuracy and inaccuracy of google books, see: Eretnids#Requested move
And you claims that the name "Bozcaada" is a post-1970 invention. But this is wrong information = invention of User:Athenean.
See:
Gökçeada is a post-1970 invention but "Bozcaada" (Bozja Ada, Bozdja Ada) is not invented name.
As long as I know, formerly Tenedos is more common name of this island (not only historical usage but also contemporary usage), but now Bozcaada is more common for contemporary usage.
-- Takabeg ( talk) 02:57, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
HMS Tenedos (HMS Tenedos (1812), HMS Tenedos (1870), former HMS Tenedos, HMS Tenedos (H04), Tenedos frigate), Russian Tenedos class frigate, Greek minelayer Tenedos, USS Tenedos, Fort Tenedos, spider " Tenedos", Tenedos Bay, Battle of Tenedos.
from 436 Tenedos / 407 Bozcaada.
And we must exclude historical usage such as
Now I think you understand that Bozcaada is more common name of this island for modern usage ( Use modern names).
-- Takabeg ( talk) 03:49, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Of course, in mythological and historical (ie, history before the 15th century) books using the name "Tenedos" makes more sense since that would be the name used then. That would explain many search results for "Tenedos". Filanca ( talk) 15:20, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
To illustrate my point above (ie, "in mythological and historical books using the name "Tenedos" makes more sense") more clearly, it is like Istanbul being called Constantinople or Byzantium in a book about Byzantine history. Or, Mexico City called Tenochtitlan -- in books about the Aztec period, Tenochtitlan will always outnumber Mexico City. Therefore, when looking at which name is used more frequently, we must not count the historical uses and meanings. Fortunately, Google Scholar has classified its articles according to the subject matter, so it is possible to exclude the category "Social Sciences, Arts, and Humanities". Thus searching scientific articles published in the 21st century yields 274 results for Bozcaada versus 142 for Tenedos. Clearly, the preferred name in English for natural and social sciences (except history) is Bozcaada in our day. The name Tenedos will always be used in history books referring to the island or when referring to HMS Tenedos, but just so. I agree with Takabeg on that we must adapt the modern usage in the encyclopedia article. Filanca ( talk) 17:59, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
There are two problems with a book search:
If we limit our search to books published from year 2000 onwards 'Tenedos+island' drops to 2,160 from 20,200 overall, almost one in ten. The same limit decreases results for 'Bozcaada+island' to 423 from 873, only about a half. This is a clear indication of Bozcaada becoming more popular in books of 21st century. Sampling the individual books, most of 'Tenedos' books publshed from year 2000 onwards are either history books or reprints of older ones. Bozcaada is used for a more diverse range of subjects and there are fewer reprtints (not surprizing, since this usage is relatively recent). To find out exactly which name is more popular when reprints and history books are stripped is a hard task requiring examination of all search results.
A Google Scholar search easily handles the issues: Dates in Scholar indicate mostly first publication and it is possible to filter according to the subject matter. As I indicated above, Bozcaada is more popular than Tenedos in the 21st century publications. Filanca ( talk) 09:49, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
Something also important is that wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and this means that scientific articles of 'all' fields should be taken into account. Alexikoua ( talk) 14:31, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
You may find the search result for Tenedos here and for Bozcaada here. As is seen, Bozcaada (163 results) is twice as popular as Tenedos (80 results). If you propose to include history as a subject matter in a search for current name popularity, you should consider that Mumbai is still referred to as Bombay for the colonial period and Mexico City as Tenochtitlan when speaking about the Aztec era. I don't think anyone would propose to use the name Istanbul when referring to the Byzantian city for the same matter. Filanca ( talk) 15:01, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
Once more: In order to decide on current usage we must not consider documents on history, since, due to the nature of their discipline of history, historians will use names that may have dropped out of usage in other fields. I hope this time it is clear enough. My examples (Tenochtitlan, Constantinople, Bombay) are intended for this point exactly. Nothing to do with their overall Google Scholar hit counts, which may be affected by a myriad of factors. And interesting enough, you do not speak about Mumbai above, which returns less hits than Bombay in Google Scholar like in the case of Bozcaada vs. Tenedos. Which increases my suspicion if you are really trying to understand me or putting up a trollish resistance. Filanca ( talk) 17:00, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
Columbia Encyclopedia, Webster and American Heritage are using Bozcaada and directing Tenedos queries to Bozcaada. Collins uses Tenedos. And according to WP:PLACE Use Modern Names, "For articles discussing the present, use the modern English name (or local name, if there is no established English name)" Filanca ( talk) 07:56, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Filanca ( talk) 19:17, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Arguments for the name change are dispersed among long comments so I feel a summary might be useful:
Bozcaada
[51] is twice more popular with 163 results than Tenedos
[52] with 77 results in 21st century scientific publications.
This trend is becoming more pronounced as time passes, same search for articles published in 2011 yields 15 results for Bozcaada [53] and no results for Tenedos [54] (the one result visible is about historical past of the island, not current use).
Columbia Encyclopedia
[55], Webster
[56], American Heritage
[57] and National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
[58] uses Bozcaada. Collins uses Tenedos.
These results are consistent with changing the name of the article according to Wikipedia policy WP:COMMONNAME and guideline about using modern names. Filanca ( talk) 16:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
I do not think any of us would deny that even if a placename changes, its historical name would remain in use. Therefore, looking at publications about history can not be an indication about current name use although history is certainly a very respectable academic discipline. I have gone a further step and examined all articles published in 2011 and containing the word "Tenedos" in "Social Sciences, Arts, and Humanities" category. That is, to make sure we are not missing any non-history article, like an article on sociology or art. There were none, all of them were history or mythology articles. Clearly, the name is no longer used out of historical context. Filanca ( talk) 18:39, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
@Athanean:
The shortcomings of your search are:
1)We should not count books of history and mythology into account. Such books can never be indicative of current use since historical names will always be used.
2)We must differentiate new books while your search didn't. However, even if you introduced a date, Google Books might give a faulty result since there is no way to take first edition dates into account. It considers reprints as if new. Google Scholar is more reliable in that respect. They are new and never written as a travel guide.
3)We must exclude things like "hms tenedos", "fort tenedos", "nea tenedos", "llc", etc.
Major modern (21st century) encyclopedias and dictionaries are also accepting Bozcaada. Google Scholar searches indicate an ever increasing use of Bozcaada year by year, culminating to no use of Tenedos in articles published in 2011 except in historical context. Even, contrary to those evidence, we assumed that Bozcaada was not yet the established name, acccording to WP:PLACE Use Modern Names, "For articles discussing the present, use the modern English name (or local name, if there is no established English name)"
Filanca ( talk) 18:30, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
We have to take history into account only in a historical context. When speaking of the modern time, modern names count. This is why Wikipedia guideline says WP:PLACE Use Modern Names, "For articles discussing the present, use the modern English name (or local name, if there is no established English name)". Otherwise, it would not be possible to switch from Bombay [63] (268,000 results) to Mumbai (181,000 results) - [64] both searches 21st century. Filanca ( talk) 20:29, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
So Tenedos is an English name? Seriously? TheDarkLordSeth ( talk) 23:52, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi, everyone. The expression "a campaign of state-sponsored discrimination" was added this edits by User:Athenean. Alexis Alexandris had never used such terms. Is the expression "a campaign of state-sponsored discrimination" is appropriate and encyclopedic for neutral encyclopedia ? Thank you. -- Takabeg ( talk) 07:34, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Athanean's edit is misleading. His expression "from ancient times" is vague. Archeology indicates first settlement on the island predates Greek Dark Ages at least 1500 years. He assumes a continuous Greek settlement and majority on the island throughout the history until mid 20th Century, which is very difficult to prove. At least we know that there was a considerable time at the end of 14th-beginning of 15th century when the island was uninhabited. His expression "primarily inhabited by Greeks" is also vague, 19th century censuses indicate a 2/3 Greek and 1/3 Turkish population. His source Alexandris is not very reliable: He claims first mosque on the islands was built in 1965 while Şemseddin Sami writes there are three mosques at the mid 19-th century. The oldest, Yali Mosque dates about 1500. On the other hand, I agree with what Athanean wrote about discrimination. However, the ethnic history of the island should not be the first paragraph in a developed article, especially when there is a dedicated section. Although I corrected Athanean's edit on where it stays, I think this should be moved down. Filanca ( talk) 17:34, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Correction: As per TheDarkLordSeth, I suggest rephrasing the sentence in congruence with the source, Alexandris. Filanca ( talk) 18:03, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Maybe I should've made myself more clear: Alexandris is not reliable since some of what he says contradicts historical information. The date he gives for the "first mosque on the islands", 1965 is not correct for either island and is late about 450 years. He makes generalizations for the two islands like saying "they had overwhelming Greek majorities" while this was only true for Imbros. Of course some information Alexandris gives may be true, but we would rather confirm those from another source given those errors and his political language. In any case, the article contains information attributed to Alexandris but not present in his book. For example, he does not say "schools were required to teach exclusively in Turkish" but this is attributed to him. Even if we will use Alexandris as a source, we must make this properly. Sevinç and Takaoğlu are archeologists and their article was published in here, a joint publication of the Univeristies of Tübingen and the University of Cincinnatti. Prof. Takaoğlu is from Çanakkale University, you may find information about him here. Clavijo is certainly a very valuable source about the island along with Pero Tafur, both confirm the island was abandoned after the War of Chioggia. Secondary sources also indicate evacuation of the island, check here (p.204) and here. Filanca ( talk) 07:57, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Alexis Alexandris, "The Identity Issue of The Minorities In Greece An Turkey", in Hirschon, Renée (ed.), Crossing the Aegean: An Appraisal of the 1923 Compulsory Population Exchange Between Greece and Turkey, Berghahn Books, 2003, p. 120.
Takabeg ( talk) 08:47, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
No, Athanean, he was not speaking about Imbros only when he said "the first Turkish mosque on the islands was built in 1965". This may not be correct for Imbros alone, either, see [67]. "An overwhelming majority" does not seem like the correct way to put it when speaking about a 2/3 majority. Alexandris is also vague and speaking of two very different islands in his generalized statements. Filanca ( talk) 19:25, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I think we have proved Alexandris gave wrong (or misleadingly vague) information two times in one page. If we still use his work as a source, I suggest to be careful and confirm what he says from other sources. More importantly, we should not cite him for information not present in his work. Filanca ( talk) 19:25, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I have added Greek Pathriarchate's 1912 census results with reference to Alexandris since nobody else seems to mention that. However I hope to confirm that information from another source given Alexandris' reliability. Filanca ( talk) 21:45, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
In Bozcaada (Tenedos), There are dangerous rocks off this little town and mole of Tenedos, where the Turkish fort flies its red flag, and the little mosque... (Inside Sebastopol, and experiences in camp, Chapman & Hall, 1856, p. 87.) Takabeg ( talk) 11:54, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
About Imbros (Imroz, Gökçeada), Alexandris wrote Interestingly, the first Turkish mosque in the islands was built in 1965 on an expropriated Greek Orthodox vakıf (communal property) in Panagia (now renamed Çınarlı), the capital of Imbros, and was given the name Fatih Camisi (the Conqueror's mosque). But..... according to this website,
Takabeg ( talk) 12:41, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
In addition to Takabeg: The article already documents the Köprülü Mosque in Bozcaada/Tenedos was built in 1657. It was built on the ruins of an older mosque demolished by Venetians. That is probably the oldest standing temple building in use on the island, considering the church was built in the 19th Century. However, there is also the discarded mosque in the castle, in fact two of them, one ruined, other standing but not in use since the Ottoman garrison left. At least one of those two may be predating Köprülü mosque. Besides, the mosque that was destroyed by Venetians should be even older. I have seen at least one reference for that and hope to add it in the article later on. However those facts have little significance for Alexandris, whose aim seems to be making a point about the suffering of the Greek community. I am not criticizing his aim but the way he works. He is biased and should be taken with care even if he may be a good source at times. Filanca ( talk) 15:42, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
And why do we care about Alexandris' opinion if a 59% majority is "great" or "overwhelming"? Alexikoua reverted my edit saying it was a referenced information therefore should not be deleted, but should we add well-documented yet insignificant information to the encyclopedia? I will not touch Takabeg's neutralized expression (thanks to him) although I still feel Alesandris' comment looks out of place. Unless, we are after documenting his bias (is 59% majority great? Overwhelming? Come on!) Filanca ( talk) 15:51, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
Alexandris is also proven wrong about assuming a continuous Greek majority on the island throughout its human settlement until the 20th century. Not only the island remained empty for 75 years between 1381-1455, but the figures indicate a clear Turkish majority after the island is repopulated until the 19th century. Besides, the first known settlement on the island predates the Greek Dark Ages about 1500 years. Since he overlooks so many facts, his motives are confirmed to be political and biased. Filanca ( talk) 10:22, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
I find this news on a Turkish newspaper. http://www.evrensel.net/news.php?id=5423 It basically states that during 1960s horrible things happened against greeks. The crulties, seizing of their properties, assimilation etc.. and eventually in the news the Çanakkale human rights association minister Kenan Döner states that, the pressure put on greeks now become to an unbelivable point. People even can not tolerate the greek cemetaries. In one night they broke all the gravestones of the greeks. Athenean you don't need to look at greek sources if you just look at Turkish resources you can find more then enough information. I will put the information on the page when I have time to translate and summerize the article in an efficient way. Ali55te ( talk) 19:29, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
There is a recent edit in the article adding the following:
There is no indication of an ecological disaster on the island in any other resource. Today 40% of the island is cultivated and 80% of the cultivated lands are vineyards (see Brebbia&Beriatos p.338-339 [
http://books.google.com/books?id=uojOg7iXZZAC&
pg=PA339&lpg=PA329&ots=GAvVRx3Cuc&dq=bozcaada+agriculture&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html] Therefore it is impossible for the island to have had 90% of its cultivated lands destroyed -- and replaced by various constructions(?). There is some sign of decline in the vineyards in the last three decades (see same source, p. 339) but it is not related with an ownership regulation but development of tourism and tax laws. It is also on a much smaller scale and started about 20 years after claimed by this edit. In fact, during the period where the above edit claims the "ecological disaster", wine production in the island increased, especiall after 1956 (same source, p.339). Between 1960-80, 13 wine production plants operated. Better use of machinery increased productivity. Since wine producers used grapes on the island, this increase would have been impossible with 90% of the cultivated lands destroyed.
The source given for this edit is not about agriculture or economy. It is a political book about Turkish-Greek relations written by a Greek author (see full text here, p.139). It speaks of Imbros and Bozcaada together in this matter. This is not a correct nor a clear way to indicate a fact about one of the islands but not something new to users participated in discussions here, see above for false claims about both islands having an overwhelming Greek majority until 20th century (which is only true for Imbros), both islands' Turkish names changed after 1970 (again only true for Imbros), both islands not having a mosque until 1965 (not true for either island but the first mosque on Bozcaada probably predates the 19th century mosque in Imbros about 300 years). Imbros and Bozcaada are two islands, althogh not very far from each other and both in Turkey, with different histories, ethnographies and economies. Speaking in generalizations proved to be misleading in the past.
I propose this edit to be deleted in view of the contradictory evidence. Filanca ( talk) 12:53, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
But if you have a closer look at the figures above, you will see that it is impossible that 90% of the cultivated lands in Bozcaada/Tenedos to be covered with concrete. Currently 40% of the island is being cultivated, most of the rest being used for herding, there is also a forest, beaches, dunes, the town and farm buildings. If this 40% is the remaining 10% after 90% of the cultivated lands were replaced with concrete, the irrational conclusion would be that prior to 1960, 400% of the island's whole surface was being cultivated! That means most of the farmers were working under sea. Although a type of seaweed is being served in the restaurants of the island as a meze, that would hardly count as agriculture. Joking aside, there is no large scale concrete structures on the island, and I hope you have also read how wine production soared after 1956 until 1980, which would be impossible by destroying vineyards. Check this book also. Although it is written in Turkish, you will be able to understand the land use map on p.103. Green: agriculture, blue: tourism, pink: conservation and yellow: settlement. Filanca ( talk) 21:07, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
And I do not contest that. However, jumping from the fact that there was expropriations to an 'ecological disaster' where 90% of arable land falling out of agricultural use and being covered with other structures is far fetched. Such an event is contradicting to other sources and what we know about the island's past and present. Filanca ( talk) 18:52, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
Instead of deleting, I took the liberty to re-write this part, contrasting it with the growth in wine production. 90% decrease in arable lands and expropriation of Greek farms kept, but I deleted the phrase "ecological disaster" since such a catastrophe, if true, would certainly have been reported by other sources. I don't think that it is contained in the original source, either. I hope this is acceptable for all. Filanca ( talk) 09:06, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
As I see the construction of a military base and an airport on previous cultivated lands in a small island are very likely to cause ecological disaster, so I reworded the specific part in order to become somewhat more balanced (ecological disaster vs wine production increase). I have the feeling that this paragraph should be moved back to 'economy'. Alexikoua ( talk) 20:45, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
If you check the Google Earth you can see that there is only one airstrip that's between 600 and 700 meters. This airstrip takes up a very small amount of space and is surrounded by farmlands. Assuming that this is the airstrip the British built, where is this other airstrip that Turks build over a vast amount of land? TheDarkLordSeth ( talk) 22:47, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
It would be much more constructive to not misuse sources though. Your link does not provide the information you claim it does. Moreover, you fail to address the points I've raised. TheDarkLordSeth ( talk) 12:24, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Everything is cited inside the text (ecological disaster, construction of airfield military base and appropriation of land owned by locals based on ethnicity). Another relevant fact that can be added is the prohibition to sell their wine production. Alexikoua ( talk) 13:23, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Alexikoua:
1) Your source says "a military base and an airport were constructed on these lands". One military base and one airport. Lands in plural. Which lands? Looking at the title, Imbros and Tenedos. This is one of the sources which speak of both islands in generalized statements. Generalizations about those islands proved to be wrong more than once in this page (remember post-1970 invented name, the first mosque of the "islands", etc.) Imbros and Bozcaada, although both in Turkey, are two islands with very different history and geography. Going back to your source, it is speaking of a single airport on one of the two islands.
2) The long paragraph mentioning the airport contains the word Imbros three times and Gökçeada one time. It contains "the island" 12 times. It never speaks of Tenedos or Bozcaada. There is no reason to doubt that it starts to speak about an airfield on Bozcaada, without naming it, while it speaks only of Imbros before and after.
3)
This document proves that the airport is scheduled to be built within Eight Five Yearly Development Plan which spans from 2001-2005 (page 190, "Çanakkale-Bozcaada Havaalanı"). That is long after the migration of Greeks of the island which mainly took place between 1960-1980.
4) If you look at the map on page 103 of
this book again, you will see that the "airfield" you found on the Google Maps lies in grids 7, 26 and 27, none of which are agricultural lands. If you read the Geography section of this article and a bit of a geography of the islanda, you will see that section (extreme west) of the island is covered with sand dunes. Google Maps also indicates there are no fields around the airfield you speak about. Agricultural lands lie due east and there is a pine forest in between.
5)
This book indicates how Greeks helped British to build the first airstrip by uprooting a vineyard on the island during the
Gallipoli Campaign. It is 800 yards long, looking at the map, almost as long as the airstrip you mention. Now, should we consider this as an evidence of Greeks disturbing the ecology of the island?
Filanca (
talk)
21:26, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
You are correct, I considered the map in the link you provided and it was centered on the western cape so I mistakenly considered the dirt road there. Sorry. This is plainly in grid 10, agricultural area. This explains one inconsistency in my mind: I thought it was highly probable that the current airstrip was built on the same area as the British one built during the WWI. Had it been near the western cape, there could hardly have been a vineyard uprooted during its construction, since that area is not suitable for farming. Being in the agricultural part of the island, current airstrip may still coincide with the old one. Now making some allowance for the premises, the dimensions of the airstrip are 700m x 100m =70,000 sq.m. = 7 hectares. Total area of the island is 36.7 sq.km. = 3760 hectares. Total arable land is 40% of that, 1500 hectares. Area of the airstrip is 0.47%, less than a half per cent of the agricultural lands. I suppose that is hardly a significant percentage that would lead to an 'ecological disaster'. Besides, it was done by the British forces first with help from Greek residents of the island. If there are any confiscations for this 21st century construction, that was long after most Greeks already left the island. Filanca ( talk) 18:21, 20 September 2011 (UTC)