This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Someone did an interesting edit to the Ku Klux Klan article today regarding its temperance activities. Although I reverted the edit because there were a lot of problems with it, I assume there is at least some truth to the claim that the Klan was heavily involved in temperance.-- Bcrowell 03:41, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
I've marked the page as needing attention, both because it's way too short for such an important topic, and because people's comments on this talk page seem to indicate a problem with its US focus.-- Bcrowell 03:56, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
I've just removed the following text:
"Please note: This preliminary editing uses much material from my website (www.alcoholinformation.org), to which I hold the copyright. ```` David Justin"
Perhaps if I could address David directly; by submitting your text to Wikipedia you have agreed for the text to be released under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, a fact that is clearly stated at the bottom of every edit page. It's true that you do still hold the copyright, but there's no need for this to be stated on the page itself. "In the first case, you retain copyright to your materials. You can later republish and relicense them in any way you like. However, you can never retract the GFDL license for the versions you placed here: that material will remain under GFDL forever." -- Dom 11:26, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
This article is pretty slanted towards the teetotalers. It reads almost like a fable, and completely neglects to point out the problems that prohibition caused (increase in organized crime, highlighting the impotence of law enforcement, etc) A few points of note:
"The movement's major success" "prohibition remained a dream in England." "the movement achieved a number of successes" "The referendum was won" "The future looked bright for the young movement" "some stalwart leaders persevered in pressing their cause"
Liu Bei 19:14, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
The word prohibition has become a loaded expression used by those who campaigm for the decriminilisation of illicit drugs.A reading of original US congress records, tend to highlig the spin put on prohibition by those who had a vested interest in ending prohibition. It can be argued that the alleged increasein crime duing US prohibition is largely a product of Hollywood script writing. Golions 05:06, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Article says:
I'd like to know what the grounds for that are. As far as I know, the temperance organisations have rather been intertwined with the workers' movement - at least here in Sweden. To me, that looks like an odd attempt to discredit temperance. -- Jobjörn 02:35, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Well, the main reason for me proposing this merge is this AfD. It's been lying around for a long time now, and the list is quite useless - it's a category, and most of it is probably redundant to this article. It's very US-centric, too. Any thoughts? Jobjörn ( Talk ° contribs) 00:17, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
I see the following equation at the beginning of the 2nd paragraph in this entry:
3.14 * 89 + 85(4962.36 + 6972)
The equation does not appear in the "edit this page" tab. I haven't really delved into editing the Wiki, so I hope you'll pardon me if I'm showing my noobness. (I also haven't posted in the "discussion" tab before, so I hope I'm doing this correctly.)
Wjc3 03:02, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
EDIT: Nevermind, the equation has now disappeared.
Should the page be "Temperance Movement" or "Temperance movement".
In other words is the title of the organisation, even a generic title the "Temperance Movement" or is it "just a movement" which is about temperance?
I know I can just be bold and create a redirect page form "Temperance Movement" to "Temperance movement", but it seems to e to be better to make sure the right page has the article and the other page is the redirect.
Fiddle Faddle 21:23, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Should Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's comments over the last few days be noted in the article? Seeing as he's trying to bring back prohibition... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.138.104.191 ( talk) 08:05, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
What happened to the section on the Australian temperance movement ?-- Biatch ( talk) 06:07, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
"Social control over alcohol abuse declined, anti-drunkenness ordinances were relaxed and alcohol problems increased dramatically."
The case study on the US needs less repititions of dramatically, and more statistics. in this particular quote, isn't it true drinking more than halved from 7+ gallons of hard liquor per capita in 1830, to less than 2 gallons/capita by the mid-1840s, about the level of today? i have no time right now, someone please double check this. -- Karch 12:26, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
agreed. there are virtually no stats or references in the US portion of the article. it seems that the npov requirement is being compromised. Aceholiday ( talk) 21:10, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
The article says "about 2000 farmers in a Connecticut community formed a temperance association in 1789." but the article on prohibition - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States says - "about 200 farmers in a Connecticut community formed a temperance association in 1789." . I am not sure which number (200 vs 2000) is correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.120.196.106 ( talk) 17:12, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Recently the file File:Dame Agnes Elizabeth Weston from NPG.jpg (right) was uploaded and it appears to be relevant to this article and not currently used by it. If you're interested and think it would be a useful addition, please feel free to include it. Dcoetzee 00:19, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
While browsing, I ran across this page and found a sentence fragment at the top of the United States section reading "rather than prohibition)". The next sentence then goes on to discuss Rush. I assume that fragment had originally been part of a sentence that introduced this Rush person, but it's been broken for more edits than I care to look through in the history. Someone with time should go back through the history and pull that sentence back out so that everyone can know who Rush is. 76.195.21.254 ( talk) 21:10, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Here's some text for consideration to include in the Temperance Movement article:
The ideological and political notion of limiting access to alcohol products has been noted by many researchers as outdated, unscientific and overly-manipulative of human populaces. (Add many easy to find, empirically researched references here.) Furthermore, contemporary studies highly correlate moderate alcohol beverage consumption with many health benefits, including (but not limited to) decreased risk of atherosclerosis, [1]
Someone should really add the OUTCOME of the movement. Anyone who does not know much about history or the United States may even believe that the 18th amendment is still active. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.246.242 ( talk) 23:45, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
References
7th grader's website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.149.70.90 ( talk) 20:19, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Can someone please explain this term? Nineteenth century temperance issue debaters used it often as an understood phrase or principle. I have found Local Option by William_Sproston_Caine on Google Books but am not clear on how this idea is/was to be implemented in a community. By poll? Bluedawe 01:58, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
I find Turner referred to as "Dickey Turner" and "Richard Turner" on English web sites, he is called "John" here. He was apparently a stutterer, and that is one story where the TeeTotaler comes from. -- WiseWoman ( talk) 09:47, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for this clarification. -- Uncle Ed ( talk) 01:15, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
The temperance movement is an excellent example of how a small, vocal, organized minority was able to leverage moral or political correctness to inflict their social change agenda on a complacent, shamed majority. The ideals of the agenda countered human nature, were not integrated by the majority, and laws were reversed after high social costs. Similar agendas and methods to inflict social change exist today.
A temperance movement of sorts demands another hydrocarbon be renounced, gasoline! This minority of activists are political, ideological, and religious in fervor. They base their fight on many fronts: gasoline is bad for the health - walking and bicycling are healthier transport modes; burning hydrocarbons increases global warming and hastens The Rapture; bicycles are chariots of the gods; shared vehicle lanes shall be made bike-only lanes. Instead of organizing in churches, the new temperance army congregates on the Internet. The self righteousness of New Urbanists and bicycle activists equals that of teetotalers a century ago. Dismantling of prohibition laws when the minority movement faded may be echoed in returning roadways to motorists if the current cycling fad wanes. The previous bicycling boom was in the 1970's. Mark Kaepplein ( talk) 07:07, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
I have added two citations to this section in response to the copyedit message, but I'm unsure if this is enough to remove the message.--Soulparadox 14:52, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Whilst repairing the bare URLs on this page, I encountered an inappropriate Facebook Groups citation. However, whilst attempting to find an alternative citation for this supposed movement, I failed to find a single web-based reference. I have therefore deleted the spurious information on this basis; if anyone can provide substantiation, then it can be restored.--Soulparadox 11:38, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Discuss here to readd. Flowanda | Talk 07:55, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
The article seems to be a collection of regionally based articles and really needs refocussing into a coherently based whole. Instead of going country by country this really needs to have a coherant timeline, showing when and why the phenemona started, its rise, decline and continued presence. We seem to be doing this but six or seven times (by country). JASpencer ( talk) 16:59, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
This edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Temperance_movement&diff=693334011&oldid=693129885
Inserts the complete paragraph: "It prohibited the buying, selling or producing alcohol, however it was not illegal to posses if if one already did."
This sounds like it's talking about a specific law that was proposed/introduced under the influence of this movement. But the surrounding paragraphs make no mention of such, and in fact their balance is for social discouragement rather than legislating. Even if it's potentially relevant to something else in the article, here it makes no sense. (Also "posses" is misspelt.) 2A00:81C0:0:20:6631:50FF:FE3B:8A49 ( talk) 18:54, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
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Per Wikipedia policy, I am supposed to ask other editors about this first, so here goes: anyone knows why this article is set for British English and dmy dates? Considering that the temperance movement was most strong in the United States, i would argue for American English and mdy dates.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 11:03, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
If anyone is going to this conference, please post a link to the papers distributed there, so we can use them in the article.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 12:47, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Skyes, if you want to switch citation system from shortened footnotes ({{sfn}}) to the {{rp}} system, that is fine with me. But you will have to apply the system everywhere. It is not recommended per MOS to use more than one system in one article.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 11:13, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
Should we have a separate section on principles and practices? It seems to me that many of the principles and practices stayed unchanged during the history of temperance, or did not fundamentally change at least. Mentioning principles and practices now and then, alongside a timeline of historical sections looks quite incoherent.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 22:13, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
I know that there is an article about the Women's Christian Temperance Union, but I think women's work on the temperance movement should at least be summarized in this article. Skyes(BYU) ( talk) 19:06, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
I was interested in adding some information about the temperance movement in relation to Latter-day Saints. Anyone is welcome to join! Skyes(BYU) ( talk) 16:47, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
According to some scholars ...onward, and briefly summarize the rest in a sentence. And terms like revelation are devotional and legitimizing in nature. You should attribute such terms to a group or person, rather than use the 'voice of Wikipedia' for that.
Note that Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Latter Day Saints and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Latter Day Saints) is not being followed in this article in reguards to pre- succession crisis (Latter Day Saints) naming conventions. However the article is semi-protected, so I cannot make the needed changes. -- 155.95.90.240 ( talk) 16:19, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
I do not think it was only in the US - I believe that there was a similar movement in Australia around the same time. -- Robert Merkel 01:42 Jan 23, 2003 (UTC)
The movement is not quite limited to english-speaking countries, as the article says. I don't know about the rest of the world, but all scandinavian countries had "avholdsbevegelser" or temperance movements. They were very popular here in norway, since alcoholism was a HUGE problem in the past. (Advocates against racism will often quote a text denouncing these perpetually drunk, backward people that will never amount to anything, before revealing that the people in question is nineteenth-century norwegians, as seen by british) The norwegian total abstention movement (DNT) was founded by the quaker Asbjørn Kloster, I don't have the year, but not long after the international order of good templars (IOGT) also appeared. In the beginning they mainly resisted the traditions that said to drink alcohol at every conceivable excuse, but they quickly became a reform movemente of note. On prohibition, a significant faction led by Sven Arrestad wanted a gradual strategy of forcing alcohol sale into local monopolies, and then vote (in local referendums) to get rid of them entirely. Arrestad was particularly sensitive to economic considerations, and worked hard (he was a MP) to make sure that the profits from possible monopoly alcohol sale didn't end in local politicians' coffers. However, the majority wanted a national prohibition of liquor, and they won the resulting national referendum by a large majority - not suprising, since women could vote for one of the first times. (aside, the movement was very early in supporting equal rights for women)
Largely due to protest from wine-importing trade partners, a new referendum was held 5-10 years later(?), in which prohibition was removed.
Farang Rak Tham, thank you for your recent edits and additions. I appreciate your hard work on this article. It's looking better everyday. Skyes(BYU) ( talk) 16:29, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
In writing this article, we must not forget that there already are several article about the temperance movement in several areas of the world. I think it is important to guard that we are not losing ourselves too much in the specifics of each and every region, but rather focus on the trends of temperance as a worldwide phenomenon. Although a majority of sources on the subject tend to focus on temperance in the US, temperance was essentially a worldwide phenomenon at the time, not and American "export product", nor a local form of radicalism. There are four major geographical areas that I have discovered in the sources, that is, the US, the UK, the Nordic countries and Oceania. There was major influence and exchange between these areas, and many parallel developments as I have been reading in Edman (just added to the article in the last weeks).
We have to try to focus on the commonalities. Once the article is above 50 kB, we might have to move too specific content to the appropriate pages on each specific area of the movement. Please note that much of the content may actually be relevant, when we can find evidence that there were parallel developments in other parts of the world.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 13:01, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
Farang Rak Tham Please provide citations for the claim, "There's scholarly consensus that the temperance movement has much affected the civil rights movement". I've never encountered that claim. Mitchumch ( talk) 06:41, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
The League campaigned for suffrage and temperance simultaneously, with leader Susan B. Anthony stating that "The only hope of the Anti-Saloon League's success lies in putting the ballot into the hands of women", i.e. it was expected that the first act that women were to take upon themselves after having obtained the right to vote, was to vote for an alcohol ban.[45]
Historical analysis of conference documents helps create an image of what the temperance movement stood for. The movement believed that alcohol abuse was a threat to scientific progress, as it was believed citizens had to be strong and sober to be ready for the modern age. Progressive themes and causes such as abolition, natural self-determination, worker's rights, and the importance of women in rearing children to be good citizens were key themes of this citizenship ideology.
Temperance advocates saw alcohol as a product that "... enables a few to become rich while it impoverishes the very many". Temperance advocates worked closely with the labor movement, as well as the women suffrage movement, partly because there was mutual support and benefit, and the causes were seen as connected.
Indeed, scholar Ruth Bordin stated that the temperance movement was "the foremost example of American feminism."[93] Prominent women such as Amelia Bloomer, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and Susan B. Anthony were active in temperance and abolitionist movements in the 1840s.[2]:47
In a Chicago meeting of the National American Woman Suffrage Association, Susan B. Anthony stated that women suffer the most from drunkenness. The inability for women to control wages, vote, or own property added to a woman's vulnerability.[94]:7
At the end of the nineteenth century, temperance movement opponents started to criticize the slave trade in Africa. This came during the last period of rapid colonial expansion. Slavery and alcohol trade in colonies were seen as two closely related problems, described as "the twin oppressors of the people". Again, this subject tied in with the ideas of civilization and effectiveness: temperance advocates raised the issue that the "natives" could not be properly "civilized" and put to work, if they were provided with the vice of alcohol.[38]:35–36
There is a tendency among some editors, as I have also mentioned above on the talk page, to think that the temperance movement was only an American phenomenon. It was not. It was a worldwide phenomenon. There were already in the 19th century international temperance meetings in different places in the world, as extensively described by Erdman as cited in the article.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 18:33, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Someone did an interesting edit to the Ku Klux Klan article today regarding its temperance activities. Although I reverted the edit because there were a lot of problems with it, I assume there is at least some truth to the claim that the Klan was heavily involved in temperance.-- Bcrowell 03:41, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
I've marked the page as needing attention, both because it's way too short for such an important topic, and because people's comments on this talk page seem to indicate a problem with its US focus.-- Bcrowell 03:56, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
I've just removed the following text:
"Please note: This preliminary editing uses much material from my website (www.alcoholinformation.org), to which I hold the copyright. ```` David Justin"
Perhaps if I could address David directly; by submitting your text to Wikipedia you have agreed for the text to be released under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, a fact that is clearly stated at the bottom of every edit page. It's true that you do still hold the copyright, but there's no need for this to be stated on the page itself. "In the first case, you retain copyright to your materials. You can later republish and relicense them in any way you like. However, you can never retract the GFDL license for the versions you placed here: that material will remain under GFDL forever." -- Dom 11:26, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
This article is pretty slanted towards the teetotalers. It reads almost like a fable, and completely neglects to point out the problems that prohibition caused (increase in organized crime, highlighting the impotence of law enforcement, etc) A few points of note:
"The movement's major success" "prohibition remained a dream in England." "the movement achieved a number of successes" "The referendum was won" "The future looked bright for the young movement" "some stalwart leaders persevered in pressing their cause"
Liu Bei 19:14, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
The word prohibition has become a loaded expression used by those who campaigm for the decriminilisation of illicit drugs.A reading of original US congress records, tend to highlig the spin put on prohibition by those who had a vested interest in ending prohibition. It can be argued that the alleged increasein crime duing US prohibition is largely a product of Hollywood script writing. Golions 05:06, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Article says:
I'd like to know what the grounds for that are. As far as I know, the temperance organisations have rather been intertwined with the workers' movement - at least here in Sweden. To me, that looks like an odd attempt to discredit temperance. -- Jobjörn 02:35, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Well, the main reason for me proposing this merge is this AfD. It's been lying around for a long time now, and the list is quite useless - it's a category, and most of it is probably redundant to this article. It's very US-centric, too. Any thoughts? Jobjörn ( Talk ° contribs) 00:17, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
I see the following equation at the beginning of the 2nd paragraph in this entry:
3.14 * 89 + 85(4962.36 + 6972)
The equation does not appear in the "edit this page" tab. I haven't really delved into editing the Wiki, so I hope you'll pardon me if I'm showing my noobness. (I also haven't posted in the "discussion" tab before, so I hope I'm doing this correctly.)
Wjc3 03:02, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
EDIT: Nevermind, the equation has now disappeared.
Should the page be "Temperance Movement" or "Temperance movement".
In other words is the title of the organisation, even a generic title the "Temperance Movement" or is it "just a movement" which is about temperance?
I know I can just be bold and create a redirect page form "Temperance Movement" to "Temperance movement", but it seems to e to be better to make sure the right page has the article and the other page is the redirect.
Fiddle Faddle 21:23, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Should Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's comments over the last few days be noted in the article? Seeing as he's trying to bring back prohibition... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.138.104.191 ( talk) 08:05, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
What happened to the section on the Australian temperance movement ?-- Biatch ( talk) 06:07, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
"Social control over alcohol abuse declined, anti-drunkenness ordinances were relaxed and alcohol problems increased dramatically."
The case study on the US needs less repititions of dramatically, and more statistics. in this particular quote, isn't it true drinking more than halved from 7+ gallons of hard liquor per capita in 1830, to less than 2 gallons/capita by the mid-1840s, about the level of today? i have no time right now, someone please double check this. -- Karch 12:26, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
agreed. there are virtually no stats or references in the US portion of the article. it seems that the npov requirement is being compromised. Aceholiday ( talk) 21:10, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
The article says "about 2000 farmers in a Connecticut community formed a temperance association in 1789." but the article on prohibition - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States says - "about 200 farmers in a Connecticut community formed a temperance association in 1789." . I am not sure which number (200 vs 2000) is correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.120.196.106 ( talk) 17:12, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Recently the file File:Dame Agnes Elizabeth Weston from NPG.jpg (right) was uploaded and it appears to be relevant to this article and not currently used by it. If you're interested and think it would be a useful addition, please feel free to include it. Dcoetzee 00:19, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
While browsing, I ran across this page and found a sentence fragment at the top of the United States section reading "rather than prohibition)". The next sentence then goes on to discuss Rush. I assume that fragment had originally been part of a sentence that introduced this Rush person, but it's been broken for more edits than I care to look through in the history. Someone with time should go back through the history and pull that sentence back out so that everyone can know who Rush is. 76.195.21.254 ( talk) 21:10, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Here's some text for consideration to include in the Temperance Movement article:
The ideological and political notion of limiting access to alcohol products has been noted by many researchers as outdated, unscientific and overly-manipulative of human populaces. (Add many easy to find, empirically researched references here.) Furthermore, contemporary studies highly correlate moderate alcohol beverage consumption with many health benefits, including (but not limited to) decreased risk of atherosclerosis, [1]
Someone should really add the OUTCOME of the movement. Anyone who does not know much about history or the United States may even believe that the 18th amendment is still active. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.246.242 ( talk) 23:45, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
References
7th grader's website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.149.70.90 ( talk) 20:19, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Can someone please explain this term? Nineteenth century temperance issue debaters used it often as an understood phrase or principle. I have found Local Option by William_Sproston_Caine on Google Books but am not clear on how this idea is/was to be implemented in a community. By poll? Bluedawe 01:58, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
I find Turner referred to as "Dickey Turner" and "Richard Turner" on English web sites, he is called "John" here. He was apparently a stutterer, and that is one story where the TeeTotaler comes from. -- WiseWoman ( talk) 09:47, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for this clarification. -- Uncle Ed ( talk) 01:15, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
The temperance movement is an excellent example of how a small, vocal, organized minority was able to leverage moral or political correctness to inflict their social change agenda on a complacent, shamed majority. The ideals of the agenda countered human nature, were not integrated by the majority, and laws were reversed after high social costs. Similar agendas and methods to inflict social change exist today.
A temperance movement of sorts demands another hydrocarbon be renounced, gasoline! This minority of activists are political, ideological, and religious in fervor. They base their fight on many fronts: gasoline is bad for the health - walking and bicycling are healthier transport modes; burning hydrocarbons increases global warming and hastens The Rapture; bicycles are chariots of the gods; shared vehicle lanes shall be made bike-only lanes. Instead of organizing in churches, the new temperance army congregates on the Internet. The self righteousness of New Urbanists and bicycle activists equals that of teetotalers a century ago. Dismantling of prohibition laws when the minority movement faded may be echoed in returning roadways to motorists if the current cycling fad wanes. The previous bicycling boom was in the 1970's. Mark Kaepplein ( talk) 07:07, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
I have added two citations to this section in response to the copyedit message, but I'm unsure if this is enough to remove the message.--Soulparadox 14:52, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Whilst repairing the bare URLs on this page, I encountered an inappropriate Facebook Groups citation. However, whilst attempting to find an alternative citation for this supposed movement, I failed to find a single web-based reference. I have therefore deleted the spurious information on this basis; if anyone can provide substantiation, then it can be restored.--Soulparadox 11:38, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Discuss here to readd. Flowanda | Talk 07:55, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
The article seems to be a collection of regionally based articles and really needs refocussing into a coherently based whole. Instead of going country by country this really needs to have a coherant timeline, showing when and why the phenemona started, its rise, decline and continued presence. We seem to be doing this but six or seven times (by country). JASpencer ( talk) 16:59, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
This edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Temperance_movement&diff=693334011&oldid=693129885
Inserts the complete paragraph: "It prohibited the buying, selling or producing alcohol, however it was not illegal to posses if if one already did."
This sounds like it's talking about a specific law that was proposed/introduced under the influence of this movement. But the surrounding paragraphs make no mention of such, and in fact their balance is for social discouragement rather than legislating. Even if it's potentially relevant to something else in the article, here it makes no sense. (Also "posses" is misspelt.) 2A00:81C0:0:20:6631:50FF:FE3B:8A49 ( talk) 18:54, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
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Per Wikipedia policy, I am supposed to ask other editors about this first, so here goes: anyone knows why this article is set for British English and dmy dates? Considering that the temperance movement was most strong in the United States, i would argue for American English and mdy dates.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 11:03, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
If anyone is going to this conference, please post a link to the papers distributed there, so we can use them in the article.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 12:47, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Skyes, if you want to switch citation system from shortened footnotes ({{sfn}}) to the {{rp}} system, that is fine with me. But you will have to apply the system everywhere. It is not recommended per MOS to use more than one system in one article.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 11:13, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
Should we have a separate section on principles and practices? It seems to me that many of the principles and practices stayed unchanged during the history of temperance, or did not fundamentally change at least. Mentioning principles and practices now and then, alongside a timeline of historical sections looks quite incoherent.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 22:13, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
I know that there is an article about the Women's Christian Temperance Union, but I think women's work on the temperance movement should at least be summarized in this article. Skyes(BYU) ( talk) 19:06, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
I was interested in adding some information about the temperance movement in relation to Latter-day Saints. Anyone is welcome to join! Skyes(BYU) ( talk) 16:47, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
According to some scholars ...onward, and briefly summarize the rest in a sentence. And terms like revelation are devotional and legitimizing in nature. You should attribute such terms to a group or person, rather than use the 'voice of Wikipedia' for that.
Note that Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Latter Day Saints and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Latter Day Saints) is not being followed in this article in reguards to pre- succession crisis (Latter Day Saints) naming conventions. However the article is semi-protected, so I cannot make the needed changes. -- 155.95.90.240 ( talk) 16:19, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
I do not think it was only in the US - I believe that there was a similar movement in Australia around the same time. -- Robert Merkel 01:42 Jan 23, 2003 (UTC)
The movement is not quite limited to english-speaking countries, as the article says. I don't know about the rest of the world, but all scandinavian countries had "avholdsbevegelser" or temperance movements. They were very popular here in norway, since alcoholism was a HUGE problem in the past. (Advocates against racism will often quote a text denouncing these perpetually drunk, backward people that will never amount to anything, before revealing that the people in question is nineteenth-century norwegians, as seen by british) The norwegian total abstention movement (DNT) was founded by the quaker Asbjørn Kloster, I don't have the year, but not long after the international order of good templars (IOGT) also appeared. In the beginning they mainly resisted the traditions that said to drink alcohol at every conceivable excuse, but they quickly became a reform movemente of note. On prohibition, a significant faction led by Sven Arrestad wanted a gradual strategy of forcing alcohol sale into local monopolies, and then vote (in local referendums) to get rid of them entirely. Arrestad was particularly sensitive to economic considerations, and worked hard (he was a MP) to make sure that the profits from possible monopoly alcohol sale didn't end in local politicians' coffers. However, the majority wanted a national prohibition of liquor, and they won the resulting national referendum by a large majority - not suprising, since women could vote for one of the first times. (aside, the movement was very early in supporting equal rights for women)
Largely due to protest from wine-importing trade partners, a new referendum was held 5-10 years later(?), in which prohibition was removed.
Farang Rak Tham, thank you for your recent edits and additions. I appreciate your hard work on this article. It's looking better everyday. Skyes(BYU) ( talk) 16:29, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
In writing this article, we must not forget that there already are several article about the temperance movement in several areas of the world. I think it is important to guard that we are not losing ourselves too much in the specifics of each and every region, but rather focus on the trends of temperance as a worldwide phenomenon. Although a majority of sources on the subject tend to focus on temperance in the US, temperance was essentially a worldwide phenomenon at the time, not and American "export product", nor a local form of radicalism. There are four major geographical areas that I have discovered in the sources, that is, the US, the UK, the Nordic countries and Oceania. There was major influence and exchange between these areas, and many parallel developments as I have been reading in Edman (just added to the article in the last weeks).
We have to try to focus on the commonalities. Once the article is above 50 kB, we might have to move too specific content to the appropriate pages on each specific area of the movement. Please note that much of the content may actually be relevant, when we can find evidence that there were parallel developments in other parts of the world.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 13:01, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
Farang Rak Tham Please provide citations for the claim, "There's scholarly consensus that the temperance movement has much affected the civil rights movement". I've never encountered that claim. Mitchumch ( talk) 06:41, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
The League campaigned for suffrage and temperance simultaneously, with leader Susan B. Anthony stating that "The only hope of the Anti-Saloon League's success lies in putting the ballot into the hands of women", i.e. it was expected that the first act that women were to take upon themselves after having obtained the right to vote, was to vote for an alcohol ban.[45]
Historical analysis of conference documents helps create an image of what the temperance movement stood for. The movement believed that alcohol abuse was a threat to scientific progress, as it was believed citizens had to be strong and sober to be ready for the modern age. Progressive themes and causes such as abolition, natural self-determination, worker's rights, and the importance of women in rearing children to be good citizens were key themes of this citizenship ideology.
Temperance advocates saw alcohol as a product that "... enables a few to become rich while it impoverishes the very many". Temperance advocates worked closely with the labor movement, as well as the women suffrage movement, partly because there was mutual support and benefit, and the causes were seen as connected.
Indeed, scholar Ruth Bordin stated that the temperance movement was "the foremost example of American feminism."[93] Prominent women such as Amelia Bloomer, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and Susan B. Anthony were active in temperance and abolitionist movements in the 1840s.[2]:47
In a Chicago meeting of the National American Woman Suffrage Association, Susan B. Anthony stated that women suffer the most from drunkenness. The inability for women to control wages, vote, or own property added to a woman's vulnerability.[94]:7
At the end of the nineteenth century, temperance movement opponents started to criticize the slave trade in Africa. This came during the last period of rapid colonial expansion. Slavery and alcohol trade in colonies were seen as two closely related problems, described as "the twin oppressors of the people". Again, this subject tied in with the ideas of civilization and effectiveness: temperance advocates raised the issue that the "natives" could not be properly "civilized" and put to work, if they were provided with the vice of alcohol.[38]:35–36
There is a tendency among some editors, as I have also mentioned above on the talk page, to think that the temperance movement was only an American phenomenon. It was not. It was a worldwide phenomenon. There were already in the 19th century international temperance meetings in different places in the world, as extensively described by Erdman as cited in the article.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 18:33, 7 April 2019 (UTC)