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Please donot add irrelevant external links. External links section is not an opportunity to promote your blogs or drive traffic to your websites. I observed that few links are present in every page remotely connected to Telugu or Andhra people. -- Vyzasatya 08:03, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Sandeep you are misinformed. According to page 40 of the Dravidian languages by S. Steever the Telugu script is derived from the Ashokan Braahmi script used in India from about 250 BCE as the medium for Mauryan Empire inscriptions. He goes onto state that the Braahmi script is the ancestor of scripts used in North India to the present time such as Deva Naagari and Bengali. You can also look at page 78 the Dravidian languages by Sri Bhadriraju Krishnamurti.
How come these links are in any page remotely related to telugu. They are in Tirupati, Telugu Language, Andhra Pradesh, Annamacharya, TTD?? these would be appropriate in only one article Annamayya thats about it.
-- Vyzasatya 05:07, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
yes, pranathi... sumathi sathakam is our asset.
Sandeep you are misinformed. According to page 40 of the Dravidian languages by S. Steever the Telugu script is derived from the Ashokan Braahmi script used in India from about 250 BCE as the medium for Mauryan Empire inscriptions. He goes onto state that the Braahmi script is the ancestor of scripts used in North India to the present time such as Deva Naagari and Bengali. You can also look at page 78 the Dravidian languages by Sri Bhadriraju Krishnamurti.
Ok, it was pretty clear when I saw a paragraph containing both "bigot" and "zealot" that a WP:POV revert was in our future. I think it's a pretty clearly accepted contention that Telugu is a Dravidian tongue and certainly not an Indo-European one. -- Deville ( Talk) 06:27, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Sandeep you are misinformed. According to page 40 of the Dravidian languages by S. Steever the Telugu script is derived from the Ashokan Braahmi script used in India from about 250 BCE as the medium for Mauryan Empire inscriptions. He goes onto state that the Braahmi script is the ancestor of scripts used in North India to the present time such as Deva Naagari and Bengali. You can also look at page 78 the Dravidian languages by Sri Bhadriraju Krishnamurti.
I just wanted to note that nearly all the examples of Telugu are completely useless unless they are accompanied by romanizations. If someone already knows the Telugu script, then they probably also already know enough Telugu that the examples are not edifying, and if someone doesn't know the Telugu script the examples are completely indecipherable. Someone who knows whatever the standard romanization of Telugu is should add romanizations of all the Telugu examples. Nohat 08:36, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Help add input for Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Indic) -- Dangerous-Boy 04:43, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Sandeep you are misinformed. According to page 40 of the Dravidian languages by S. Steever the Telugu script is derived from the Ashokan Braahmi script used in India from about 250 BCE as the medium for Mauryan Empire inscriptions. He goes onto state that the Braahmi script is the ancestor of scripts used in North India to the present time such as Deva Naagari and Bengali. You can also look at page 78 the Dravidian languages by Sri Bhadriraju Krishnamurti.
This sections seems to just list down the major regions and all known caste names. Can someone please check this data? Sumanth 12:31, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Hey Tajikhan. There are 17 crore Telugu speakers in states other than Andhra Pradesh. This is stated in an article of 3/11/06 in the 'HINDU' in an article titled "Telugus mark 50 years of Andhra Pradesh". Tamil Nadu was ruled by Telugu kings in medieval time. During that period many Telugus settled in Tamil Nadu. This is well known in Tamil Nadu. You cannot include Bangladeshi Bengali speakers and then say Bengali is the second most widely spoken language in India since Bangladesh is not part of India and never will be. Bangladesh is a separate Country and does not belong to India.
The present Population of Andhra pradesh is more than 10 Crores. Including second language speakers, Telugu speakers will be more than 9 crores ( or 90 Millions ) atleast in only Andhra Pradesh. Majority of North Tamil Nadu People speak Telugu. The Complete western long border of Karnataka have more than 30% Telugu Speakers. Telugu people are found in good share in Maharastra ( West) and Orrisa also.
The statement : "the second most spoken language in India after Hindi/Urdu",
should be removed as it is Bengali with 230 million speakers which qualifies for this position as it surpasses Telugu by leaps and bounds. --
68.197.142.117 09:20, 12 February 2007 (UTC) Srini Rao
The majority of 230 million Bengalis live in Bangladesh. We are taking about india and indian Telugus and indian bengalis.
The Bengali population in india is around 80 millions it is not 230 millions.
according to 1991 census The telugu population in tamilnadu 7.12% = 4 million The telugu population in karnataka 7.39% = 3.1 million The telugu population in Maharastra 1.5% = 1 million The telugu population in orissa 2.2% = 1 million [1]
no.. no.. no.... telugu is in second place. all those proofs, which have shown abow are false...
We should not get too passionate about this. I have checked 3 different sources, one is Wikipedia's own Official languages of India, the other is Ethnologue [2] and India's eCENSUS [3]. The activity of a language's film industry is not measure of how many people claim it as mother tongue. If we also consider the number of secondary speakers of Telugu, than the same must be done for Bengali. Whether or not we consider secondary speakers, the purely Indian Bengali population comes in second after Hindi, with Telugu clocking in as a close third. The data is from Indian census, and ethnologue, neither organisations has any motive to falsify this data. Let's represent reality accurately in this article. This isn't a matter of pride or emotion, it's just the facts. Taajikhan 09:55, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Also, the person who converted it back to 'second most spoken language' cited a paper that: a) wasn't concerned with the linguistic demographics of India to begin with, and b) made an uncited and usupported claim that Telugu is the second most spoken language. The second citation this person used is a back reference to redundant Telugu stub on Wikipedia that also makes an uncited and unsupported claim. Please don't change this again. Taajikhan 10:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
This is ridiculous. Whoever changed Telugu back to second place cited 2 "sources" without actually making sure what they are referencing. The first one points to a site that is not accessible, so can't possibly support the claim. The second citation points to a site that bases its information on Ethnologue. If you had actually read what it said you would see that Bengali stands at 70.56 million speakers whereas Telugu stands at 69.7 million. Looks at those numbers carefully, which one is larger? I am going to change it back to third place. DO NOT change it again unless you can produce something that YOU HAVE READ and is reputable and verifiable. Otherwise complaints to higher authorities will ensue. Taajikhan 23:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Sandeep you are misinformed. According to page 40 of the Dravidian languages by S. Steever the Telugu script is derived from the Ashokan Braahmi script used in India from about 250 BCE as the medium for Mauryan Empire inscriptions. He goes onto state that the Braahmi script is the ancestor of scripts used in North India to the present time such as Deva Naagari and Bengali. You can also look at page 78 the Dravidian languages by Sri Bhadriraju Krishnamurti.
I would like to know why my input towards history of Telugu language has been deleted. Who has done this without permission. I have provided a reliable reference from where i got this input. Please dont do this again!! If anyone wants to have a discussion on this matter, I am open to it. Don't delete the content without proof!!
Dinesh Kannambadi
Any comments on the dialect used by Telugu speaking people of Tanjavur and other parts of Tamil Nadu (e.g., "lessaa ujnu" = "baagunnindi")
I'll appreciate if you can put some material on the counting system of Telugu. Specifically, I read that there is at least one similarity, the number "seven" between Turkish and Telugu. ("Yedi" is Turkish) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sinanozel ( talk • contribs) 07:56, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I've put tags to show that I'm unsatisfied with the way the grammar section is written. Witjout paying attention to the contents, the defects of the presentation are as follows:
The special terms (like Karta etc.) should be linked correctly to relevant common linguistic notions and terms (probably, subject in this case, and not nominative case).
Agreed; the whole sentence describing the syntax is unclear. I *think* what it is saying is something like "Word order in Telegu is SOV; prepositions can be used for some arguments and adjuncts." But I'm not sure, so I don't feel qualified to edit the text. Mcswell 01:15, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't feel qualified to edit this article, because while I am a linguist, I know nothing about Telegu grammar. So I'll just make some observatiosn on this Talk page.
The terms "(single) agglutination" and "polyagglutination" are not standard. In standard linguistics, the term "agglutination" refers to the use of multiple inflectional affixes on a single word. A word that had only one inflectional affix would just be considered to be inflected.
Also, the term "syllables" in this section ("certain syllables are added to the end of a noun in order to denote its case") may be incorrect; I would have used the term "suffixes" (or better re-worded "a suffix is added to a noun in order to denote its case"). It is possible that all suffixes are at least one syllable long, but the use of the term here obscures the distinction between morphology and phonology, IMO.
Mcswell 01:11, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
The template:clarifyme tag indicates parts where examples of inflected words are given, but the basic stem of the word is missing! (Or the Nominative form, or, perhaps, some other initial form of the word should be there.) In the current situation the examples are almost useless, since one can't separate the stem and the affixes. (For example, what is the stem/initial form/Nominative of Ramuni? And BTW what does it mean? Same question for `house'.)
Thanks in advance for attention.-- Imz 00:37, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Bengali is spoken by 230 millions .But that is 160 millions of Bangladesh bengalis and 80 millions of indian bengalis. in india Telugu is second most spoken language. 80 plus millions in AP +7 milloins in Tamilnadu + 5 Millions in Karnataka + 2 millions in Orissa + 2 millions in Maharastra + 1 million in chattisghar + 2 Millions in other states.
approximately 98 millions people in india spoke Telugu. 70 + millions is indian bengali population.
so telugu is second most spoken language in india. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by VSMS ( talk • contribs) 06:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC).
The population of AP as per wikipedia is 76 millions out of these 90 % peoples mother tongue is Telugu i.e 70 millions .20 % of Tamilnadu population is Telugu 15 % of karnatak population is telugu.
The CIIL data is very old and it is based on assumption that entire population speaks the official language for the states of AP ,TN,Kerala.
please check the fallowing link for general idea.
[4]
Can someone put some pictures?
Lots of inscriptions, literature, art, etc. have been mentioned...can someone find some pictures of these things?
The Figures 1 and 2 in the articles Telugu script and Telugu language figures clearly mention the evolution of Brahmi script of Mauryan times towards modern Telugu and Kannada scripts. It is as given below:
1. Brahmi script of Mauryan period (3rd centrury BCE)
2. Brahmi script on Bhattiprolu Urn containing Buddha's dhatus (3rd century BCE)
3. Brahmi script of Satavahana period (1st centurey CE)
4. Brahmi script of Ikshvaku period (3d century CE)
5. Brahmi script of Gupta period (4th century CE)
6. Ancient Telugu-Kannada script of Salankayana period (5th century)
7. Tamil scripts of Pallava period (7th century)
8. Telugu-Kannada script of 7th century
9. Telugu-Kannada script of Eastern Chalukyas (10th century)
10. Telugu-Kannada script of Rajarajanarendra period (11th century)
11. Telugu-Kannada script of Kakatiya Ganapatideva (13th century)
12. Telugu script of Prolaya Vemareddy (14th century).
It is thus very clear that both the scripts had a common origin in Brahmi script as found on Bhattiprolu stupa urn. To call it s "Old Kannada" script is nothing but travesty of history, even though some authors might have referred it so. In fact, these figures were sourced from the same citation (Adluri, Seshu Madhava Rao Parachuri, Sreenivas. Origins of Telugu Script) which Gnanapiti refers to. But, Gnanapiti does not want to take cognizance of it. As a compromise, I agreed that it can be written as:
"The Telugu script is derived from Telugu- Kannada script which is also known as old Kannada script and developed independently at the same time as modern Kannada script which is why it has strong resemblance with it"
However, Gnanapiti insists that it should be "Old Kannada" rather than "Telugu-Kannada". It is plain chauvanism being imposed on articles regarding Telugu, Telugu language and Telugu script. Wiki should not encourage such fanaicas and chauvanists. Kumarrao 09:29, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Dear Mr Gnanapiti,
I was not citing Wiki article.
The webpage I have been referring to is: ( http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/script1d.html).
Read it carefully. Open the links to the Figures. I am sure you can read the script in column 1, which is in Telugu.
How can you say this Unless you provide proper citations for your claims, your edits hold no value. ? You have been referring to the same source all along to cling to 'old Kannada' theory. As far as chauvanism is concerned I have a good understanding of you and a handful of other Wiki Kannada users by now and I am pretty sure that your inner conscience knows it too. Kumarrao 19:13, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
It seems to me that sombody has vadalised this article ....see the headline text section "fools don't read this====500 CE - 1100 CE==== The first inscription that is entirely in Telugu corresponds to the second phase of Telugu history"
Can the moderator please clean it up and keep an eye so that its not repeated?
Also, it would be nice to put in some script charts depicting the evolution of telugu language..
Don't you folks think that it would be worthwhile to mention about our Telugu Talli?!!!
Thanks, Purushotham Reddy
- Yes could someone clean up this vandalism ? And please will people adhere to Wiki rules and sign their posts with the use of 4 consecutive tildes ? Which is this : ~ This will automatically sign your edit. Vijeth 02:15, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
From many indications, it appears that the present day Rayalaseema in Andhra Pradesh was the first home of Chalukyas. As early as 1st Century CE, they were mentioned as being the vassals and chieftains under the Satavahana rule. Their place of residence at that time was the Cuddapah area. They apparently migrated to the northern Karnataka area after suffering loses at the hands of Pallava kings. They eventually established one of the most brilliant and powerful empires of South Indian history. At their peak, they controlled the better part of western and southern India. They re-entered the Telugu land via the present day Telangana. This region was their strong hold for over six centuries. Although they tended to favor Kannada in the beginning, it is in Telangana that they re-learned Telugu. When the dynasty had branched off into Western and Eastern kingdoms, the eastern branch(es) had completely become Telugu speaking. Both branches continued to patronize Telugu and Kannada. The 'trinity' (ratna traya) of early Kannada literature Pampa, Ponna and Ranna all lived in Telugu lands far from the border (because of their origin or patronage). More than any single ruling clan, it is the Chalukyas who influenced the modern form of Telugu script and its affinity with modern Kannada script.See ( http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/index.html). Kumarrao 10:49, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
The features listed for Telugu consonants just about the Phonology section needs to be translated. The terms used are totally inaccessible to any reader who is not already familiar with South Asian linguistic tradition. Even as a linguist specializing in South Asian languages, I had to look up one or two of the words in its English translation. There's no need to use the Telugu words here (without translation), as all of the words used have English equivalents. These features are by no means restricted to Telugu consonants! -- SameerKhan 02:14, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Gnanapiti either does not have time to read the citations or he deliberately chooses to ignore things that are not convenient for him.
I reproduce here the paragraphs from the citations I quoted.
1. Original home of Andhra Chalukyas (Durga Prasad'd book, Page 86):
The word 'Chalukya' seems to have been derived from the word 'Chalkya' which was the original form of the dynastic name. Like the Chutus and Kadambas, the Chalukyas were an indigenous tribe. They rose to importance in the later Satavahana period and asserted their independence after the downfall of the central empire. In the Maruturu inscription of Pulakesin II, a village that was granted by him is said to be situated in the Chalukya Vishaya. It is therefore clear that the original word of 'Chalukya' was applied to a territorial division or a Vishaya of a kingdom. Like the Pugiyas, the Hiranyakas and the Dhanakas of the (Ikshvaku period, the territorial division came to be known as Chalukya after the Chalukyan clan. The provenance of the Maruturu grant and also the other factors mentioned in it clearly prove that this Chalukya Vishaya must have comprised portions of the ceded districts of Andhra Pradesh including perhaps parts of the Mahboobnagar district of Telangana, Hence the Chalukyas were the original residents of this area (Ceded districts mean Rayalaseema region of Kadapa-Kurnool and Palamuru).
2. The route of Andhra Chalukyas: ( http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/script1d.html)
From many indications, it appears that the present day Rayalaseema in Andhra Pradesh was the first home of Chalukyas. As early as 1st Century CE, they were mentioned as being the vassals and chieftains under the Satavahana rule. Their place of residence at that time was the Cuddapah area. They apparently migrated to the northern Karnataka area after suffering loses at the hands of Pallava kings. They eventually established one of the most brilliant and powerful empires of South Indian history. At their peak, they controlled the better part of western and southern India. They reentered the Telugu land via the present day Telangana.
3. Script ( http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/script1a.html):
The Andhra (Satavahana) dynasty introduced the brahmi to the present day Kannada and Telugu regions. The earliest inscriptions found in the Tamil land belong to more or less the same period. A number of early Satavahana coins and other remains were found in Tamil Nadu. It is therefore reasonable to assume that Satavahanas introduced the script to the Tamil country also. The Satavahanas were, for some time, vassals of the Mauryan Empire. Mauryan Emperor Asoka the great (reign: 269-232 BCE) and the rise of Buddhism played stellar roles in championing this spread of writing. Thus, Telugu and all the other south Indian languages had their scripts descended from the brahmi.
4. The time period is pre-Mauryan:
( http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/script1d.html)
Row 3 (Fig. T1) is the 3rd Century BCE script found on the urn containing a portion of Buddha's mortal remains. The urn was the central object at the great monastery in BhaTTiprOlu in central Andhra Pradesh. There were other such famous sacred containers housing Buddha's teeth or bones at Amaravati, Nagarjuna Konda, Danta Puram and other Stupas. Some of these Stupas were constructed by the Naga kings of Andhra even before the Mauryan and Satavahana rule.
5. Old Telugu:
See the tabular depiction of Telugu script evolution in:
( http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/telulipi1a.jpg)
Now, for goodness sake, stop your vandalism in Telugu-related articles. If you have further questions ask Durga Prasad and Adluri (the same logic which you play upon others in Wiki). Write whatever you like in Kannada articles. This applies to your fellow Kannada Users too. Kumarrao 18:22, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Gananapiti refuses to see the reason. On the other hand long-winding and irrelevant arguments are made. I shall settle for the edit of User:Altruism in this article. At the same time, all the baseless statements that Telugu script is derived from 'Old Kannada' should be edited from Telugu-related articles. Kumarrao 05:40, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
---It is OK. There must be a "give and take" policy when one wants to coexist with others on this globe. Kumarrao 13:13, 3 July 2007 (UTC
Kumar Rao looks like you are a politican and politics is your profession..has there been any systematic study done on telugu script by any scholar worthy of mentioning..if yes produce his/her findings..we dont want your theory to be imposed on wikipedia...state facts..show evidence..no assumptions..no theory here..be logical..also try to read why there are kannada and tamil inscriptions in abudance in andhra pradesh..read about all the inscriptions found in andhra pradesh..
Among the four major Dravidian languages Telugu is distinct because of its origin whereas Kannada and Malayalam evolved from Tamil. The script of Telugu and Kannada is common becuase the original Asokan Brahmi script (Bhattiprolu script), used by Satavahanas for 400 years, was taken to Karnata country by Chalukyas, the feudatories of Satavahanas. The inscriptional evidence for Kannada is no doubt earlier to that of Telugu (of Renati Cholas; 573 CE). That does not mean Telugu script evolved from Kannada script. On the contrary it is the other way round.
As a compromise, it is prudent to use "Telugu-Kannada script" in Telugu-related articles and Kannada uers are free to use "Old Kannada" in Kannada-related article. Please also refrain from making statements in Kannada articles that Telugu script evolved from Kannada script. I am sure it is fair and just to everyone concerned. Kumarrao 14:10, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
KUMARRAO------
WHAT DOES IT SAY....HE FOLLOWED KANNADA LITERATURE WORK TO WRITE FIRST LITERATURE PIECE. THAT TO AT THE MERCY OF KANNADA RULERS. NANNAYYA WAS CALLED ADIKAVI OF TELUGU. THIS SHOWS WHAT TELUGU OWES TO KANNADA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nannayya
STOP UR USELLS WORDS....THIS ALSO SHOWS HOW MUCH TELUGU OWES TO SANSKRIT...THERE IS NOTHING GREAT ABOUT TELUGU COMPARED TO KANNADA...KANNADA LITERATURE IS RICHER THAN TELUGU AND KANNADA INSCRIPTIONS ARE FOUND HIGHEST IN THE COUNTRY WHICH GOES TO PROVE THAT KANNADA LANGUAGE HAS BEEN THE RULERS LANGUAGE FOR LONG TIME...KANNADA AND TAMIL INSCRIPTIONS ARE FOUND ABUNDANTLY IN ANHDRA PRADESH. BESIDES MANY HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANT PLACES ARE FOUND KANRANATAKA AND TAMIL NADU...LEAVE ASIDE GOD TIRUPATHI,MANTRALAYA,SRISAILAM WHICH HAVE ROOTS IN KANNADA RULERS...HYDERBAD WITH MUSLIM RULERS...WHAT IS THERE IN ANDHRA....
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.255.139.2 ( talk) 04:49, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Both the users User:Sumanth and User:Lotlil have saved the day for me and the dignity of Telugu language. There cannot be more authentic references than these five (cited above) in favour of Telugu-Kannada script. They happen to be the most authentic pieces of work from a great scholar of Dravidian languages (Krishnamurty) and a great epigraphist (Sarkar). Although I was aware of them I could not get these references and had to face the most unreasonable attacks on me. I wasted considerable amount of my valuable time pointing towards the Tables T1a and T1b (Adluri's reference) again and again but a group of persons conveniently ignored that. I visited National Museum in New Delhi and the gallery on Indian scripts there thrice. All the displays mentioned Bhattiprolu script and evolution of Telugu-Kannada script. I noticed nowhere "old Kannada" script. Unfortunately, I could not get a book relating to this information. Nor was I allowed to photograph the display charts. I mentioned this in my discussion and speculated that "old Kannada" usage was invented by some biased scholars which crept into books and websites including that of Adluri. I hope this group will stop vandalizing Telugu articles. They can certainly use "old Kannada" on the basis of three or four websites available for them but must refrain from claiming that Telugu script evolved from that of Kannada. I have added all these new references now. If anyone vandalizes the article again I shall request for blocking such Users. Kumarrao 19:45, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
Sandeep you are misinformed. According to page 40 of the Dravidian languages by S. Steever the Telugu script is derived from the Ashokan Braahmi script used in India from about 250 BCE as the medium for Mauryan Empire inscriptions. He goes onto state that the Braahmi script is the ancestor of scripts used in North India to the present time such as Deva Naagari and Bengali. You can also look at page 78 the Dravidian languages by Sri Bhadriraju Krishnamurti.
Telugu is spoken by a large number of populations in both Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. In Karnataka all the districts bordering Andhra Pradesh have e considerable percentage of Telugu speakers.(Ex:Bangalore,Kolar,Bellary..Etc.)
In Tamil Nadu almost all Western Districts (Bodering Kerala) have a huge nukber of Telugu speaking population (Ex; Coimbatore Dist.,Karur,Dindigul,Madurai,Thirunelveli,Sivakasi).They might form around 10 - 12% of teh entire population of Tamil Nadu.Same case with union territory Pondicherry.
Some one needs to add that info into the Telugu Language page. 59.160.207.20 ( talk) 11:54, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
This statement by Kishnadevaraya should be in this article. It is also a fact that the Englishmen who called Telugu the "Italian of the East" called it that because of its mellifluous nature. That needs to be mentioned more so.
'DESABASHALANDU TELUGU LESSA'.... which is mentioned by king SRI KRISHNA DEVARAYA. i am supporting this thing.
This should be definetly included. "Desabhashalandu telugu lessa, tene kante theeyani telugu bhasha"-- Sandeep346 ( talk) 09:54, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
It is noticed that the article is presently void of any images. It is better to add images like that of ancient palm leaf manuscripts written in Telugu.
There needs to be some kind of a standard way of writing Telugu names in English. Gupta, Setty, Rao, Reddy, Sastri, Chowdhury, Naidu etc. All of these are written and spoken as a part of First name or Given Name in Telugu. Why are they separated in to a different word in English?
Most of the names with these "suffixes" (mosly derived derived from our caste system) have a different Last name or Family name. I think we should create some kind of a standard to eliminate this confusion atleast for Wikipedia.
chinni September 5 2005
I apologize for making changes without enough discussion. Also, at Wikipedia, I realize that we're trying to create article names as the they're most commonly known as - in English language. So, people like
P V Narasimha Rao may have to be written like this (Rao). In other cases like
Yellapragada Subbarao, I cannot imagine splitting it up in to Subba Rao.
We should probably go by the most common way of writing these names and put the alternatives in the introduction in the articles. But, we need to come up with a standard way of wrting Telugu people's names in English, esp. when writing about people who were seldom known before in English.
chinni September 5 2005
yes, chinni... nenu kooda agree chesthunnanu. telugulo ivi kevalam cast basega vachinavi thappite maremee ledu. so.. u rright
Usually telugu names are long. The surname is derived from the name of the village or caste. Often people have both the names, one at the beginning and the other at the end of the name. The middle part forms the given name. Sometimes father's name is also added as a suffix to the given name. So in case of the former chief minster
Nara Chandrababu Naidu, Nara is derived from "naravaripally" which is his hometown and
Naidu is the name of his caste.--
Sandeep346 (
talk) 09:59, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Sandeep you are misinformed. According to page 40 of the Dravidian languages by S. Steever the Telugu script is derived from the Ashokan Braahmi script used in India from about 250 BCE as the medium for Mauryan Empire inscriptions. He goes onto state that the Braahmi script is the ancestor of scripts used in North India to the present time such as Deva Naagari and Bengali. You can also look at page 78 the Dravidian languages by Sri Bhadriraju Krishnamurti. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.126.144.118 ( talk) 10:25, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
I have seen this article before on commercial websites. I am just concerned about the legality of copy -pasting from some other website. Is the contributor the original creator of this write-up? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ssundar ( talk • contribs) 19:56, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Sandeep you are misinformed. According to page 40 of the Dravidian languages by S. Steever the Telugu script is derived from the Ashokan Braahmi script used in India from about 250 BCE as the medium for Mauryan Empire inscriptions. He goes onto state that the Braahmi script is the ancestor of scripts used in North India to the present time such as Deva Naagari and Bengali. You can also look at page 78 the Dravidian languages by Sri Bhadriraju Krishnamurti. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.126.144.118 ( talk) 10:27, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
I see a lot of focus on the word Andhra and its antiquity. One can't focus on the antiquity of the word "Karnata" whose earliest mention goes back to Skandha purana of 1000-500 B.C and call it the anitiquity of Kannada, though these people of Karnataka most defnitely spoke some version of proto Kannada. This is misleading because there is no concrete proof that the two words (Andhra and Telugu) are related right from earliest times. Later Andhras defnitely took up Telugu. The early Andhras used Prakrit as their medium of communication. If one has to prove that the Andhras of Sathavahana times spoke Telugu, one has to produce full length inscriptions, not bits and pieces of Telugu words in Prakrit poetry (King Hala). Just like many Sathavahana inscriptions contained Telugu words, they also contained Kannada words in Kannada regions (Bagalkot, Raichur, Bellary inscriptions), indicating its influence on Sathavahana Prakrit in respective regions.
Dinesh Kannambadi 18:34, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Currently, this article says that Telugu is among the top fifteen most spooken languages in the world. Now, I think this may be true if we are talking about native speakers, however, Telugu does not have all that many second-language speakers relative to many other languages (about 5 million). If you factor in French, Italian, Korean, Persian, Turkish, Vietnamese, and Indonesian, all languages that seem to have less native speakers than Telugu, but more speakers in general, Telugu seems to rate more along the lines of the top 25. Admitted, the numbers are debatable, but everything I have just said comes from List of languages by number of native speakers. - Philolexica ( talk) 03:14, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
I agree that telugu is greatly influenced by sanskrit. I am a brahmin brought up in Vijayawada. Though I am 30 years old, with my limited knowledge of pure telugu that I inherited from my ancestors, telugu pandits around, old telugu movies from 1930s till 1980s and my telugu and sanskrit knowledge of text books from school it is not a surprize to me at all to accept that telugu is influenced by sanskrit.
If you see ANR movie "Tenali Ramakrishna", it that when Ramakrishna visits Sri Krishnadevaraya for the first time, the dialogue written was "నేను సంస్కృతాంధ్రాలలో చాలా కృషి చేశాను" .. this itself shows that telugu poets and pandits are generally masters in both sanskrit and telugu. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.167.242.121 ( talk) 17:19, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Even if we agree that Telugu is influenced from Prakrit, it is seen that Prakrit originated from Sanskrit. Pleas refer to 1st para from http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/script1d.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.167.242.121 ( talk) 17:50, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Dinesh, don't be upset by following criticism. I am a 77 year old Niyogi Brahmin and so I am coming from a loving angle. The official language of the Mughals was Persian. It does not mean they did not speak Hindustani. The official language of the Papal states was Latin. It does not mean they did not speak Italian. As in those two cases, Sanskrit was put on a pedestal above the local language. But Sanskrit was put on MUCH MORE of a pedestal than Persian and Latin because our Vedic Telugu Pandits considered it the Deva Bhaasha and therefore felt only it was worthy of inscriptions. It is sad you do not know the history of our Telugu pandits. My grandparents stressed the Sanskrit/Prakrit connection of Telugu and always told me Sanskrit was the mother of Telugu. They taught me that our script is closer to the original Sanskrit script than the Deva Naagari script. This is why when I moved to Delhi in 1968 I felt superior to the locals and made sure my kids spoke and wrote Telugu. Today even my grandkids speak and write Telugu in Delhi. As a result they know far more Sanskrit than their North Indian Brahmin classmates. I have seen many Andhra children in Delhi lose their Telugu identity. My maternal Grandfather was a Telugu pandit and until he died he believed that Telugu came from Sanskrit. I know with arrival of the British modern linguistics arrived and tossed aside all these beliefs as myths. But it is especially sad to to see fellow brahmins like you absorb this mlechha influence. It is especially sad to to see fellow brahmins like you being ignorant of how hard our ancestors fought to maintain the Sanskrit ethos of Telugu. They fought to their last breath. A 100 years ago every Brahmin was an amateur Telugu/Sanskrit pandit. Today everybody wants to be an English pandit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.126.144.118 ( talk) 09:26, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
The Shatavahanas were not Telugu speaking. Their official language was Prakrit. Just because a few telugu words appear in King Hala's poems does not make their language was telugu, just as a few Kannada words appearing in Emperor Ashokas 230BC Bhramahgiri edit (from Chitradurga) does make Kannada the official language of the Gupta dynasty. Please try to see history from real historical sense. I have seen many web sites trying to confuse people and relate the Early Andhras to Telugu. The firts record of Telugu Language is from 633 AD i believe and that too in Old Kannada script (Guntur inscription?).
Dinesh Kannambadi 15:21, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Folks there is a telugu wikipedia http://te.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B0%AE%E0%B1%8A%E0%B0%A6%E0%B0%9F%E0%B0%BF_%E0%B0%AA%E0%B1%87%E0%B0%9C%E0%B1%80 .. and a lot is there to synergize
- Preeti Pisupati —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.167.242.121 ( talk) 17:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Guys, I'm adding a cleanup tag to this article since there's so much work to be done (just compare this with the article on
Tamil). Pls don't remove this tag at least until these tasks are done:
Please feel free to add to this list, I'm sure I've left out many more action items.
Let's roll up sleeves, people: there's work to be done :) - Rohit Dasari 20:30, 22 August 2006 (UTC) i too accept with sumanthk.as a resident and native of andhra pradesh i heard only tenugu as a substitute of telugu.Even the word tenugu is also used in some songs or in written scripts,it's not a word which is used frequently.Telungu is the word i never heard from any of my grand parents or from any other old people. Maybe tamilians and other states may call like that due to communication problem as they can not spell many of our words clearly.Or it may be the nick name as the telugu people call tamil people as "arava people". Aparna Kalla —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.97.19.188 ( talk) 02:53, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
In describing the Telugu language with friends, I came to the conclusion that gender in Telugu in fact is unique because only a human (or divine) male is masculine. Everything else in the universe is referred to as feminine, both inanimate objects and living things like plants and animals. Male and Female dogs are referred to as "adi" and "vellindi"
Can someone comment on this and if so, add a bit in the gender section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.165.27.182 ( talk) 19:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
There ARE three genders in Telugu--masculine, feminine, and neutral. Please look at the plural in the example.
Singular: (M)Athanu vellaadu.(F)Aame vellindhi. (N)Adhi vellindhi.
Plural: (M)Vaallu vellaaru. (F)Vaallu vellaaru. (N)Avi vellaayi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.23.255.223 ( talk) 13:40, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
This user has a swath of edits here, many of which are identical text placed in unrelated sections of this talk page about not removing certain sentences from the introduction to this article. I'm not familiar enough to say for sure but I believe this constitutes vandalism or something else similarly eggregious. For the record, I'm removing the sentences, in their entirety, because they are not encyclopedic, are irrelevant to the introduction, are poorly presented (to be frank, the stylistic aura of the passage is nauseating), and the user has given up any level of respectability that would convince me to try to include the references. The sentences in question are as follows:
I'm putting this page on my watchlist and reading up on exactly what kind of wikicrime this is (I remember something about edit wars in one of the policies), but the point is it needs to stop. I don't have the authority to weild the discipline stick, but I can tell the zealous anonymous that continuation of this kind of activity will probably result in restricted priveleges, which may mean outright banning.
If you are that serious about having these references in the article, they belong as citations to encyclopedically-written content about Telugu. This means that you cannot simply dump quotations into the article. Write something, some sentences about the conclusions reached by Dravidian language scholars, and cite your books. There are countless sentences I am sure you could come up with about this relationship to Sanskrit. This is not enough reason to quote them in an encyclopedia article. If quotation is called for, you do not need to name the book (this belongs in the citation), let alone the page number (which does not belong at all), and introducing three of these quotations in a row with identical clauses ("As ... states in page ... of his book ...:" - which, as long as we're talking about it, is not punctuated properly) is incredibly poor form.
The bottom line is, your edits have been removed, apparently multiple times, for a simple reason: they do not belong in this article. Stop, and furthermore do not vandalise the talk page in order to bring attention to the issue. this raven is icy ( talk) 00:33, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Isn't "Telegu" a common variant? It's strange that there's absolutely no mention of this spelling. Acsenray ( talk) 20:36, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
I believe Telugu should be classified as
Indo-Aryan language. Telugu has more sanskrit words than dravidian and that is undeniable. I am presenting few facts here .
In page 14 of the book- A History of Telugu Literature By Chenchiah, Bhujanga, he states -"
Telugus (may) have been in the remote past a Dravidian people possessing a non-Aryan culture, but they seem to have lost their Dravidian identity very early in their history. In historical times they were so completely Aryanised in religion, language and literature, that for all purposes they may be treated as
Aryans.
[1]
In page 16- Telugu is Vikriti , that is a language formed my modification of sanskrit and prakrit. It would appear that Andhras adopted a form of Prakrit which, in course of development, became the immediate ancestor of Telugu
[2].
Now there are more sanskri words in telugu than Dravidian.
Sanskrit is the oldest next comes Telugu. The logical proof is.. The linguistic prakriya (Game) of Sanskrit Avadhana is existing only Telugu. From this the immediate next language of Sanskrit is Telugu. In other languages Avadhana disappeared. Obviusly son possesses more features of father than grand son , because son is more immediate
[3].
I wish to see more telugu people here than Tamils(No Offense). —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Jaggi81 (
talk •
contribs) 22:51, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
(1) B.C. 200 -- A.D. 500 : During the first phase, we only come across names of places and personal names of Telugu in Prakrit and Sanskrit inscriptions found in the Telugu country. Telugu was exposed to the influence of Prakrit as early as the 3rd century B.C.' From this we know that the language of the people was Telugu, although the language of the rulers was different. The first complete Telugu inscription belongs to the Renati Cholas, found in Erragudipadu, Kamalapuram taluk of Cuddapah district and assigned to about A.D. 575. Source: Revenue Department (Gazetteers)
[4]
Jaggi81 (
talk) 00:13, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
As Velcheru Narayana Rao states in page 3 of his book Classical Telugu Poetry: "every Sanskrit word is potentially a Telugu word as well, and literary texts in Telugu may be lexically Sanskrit or Sanskritized to an enormous extent, perhaps sixty percent or more." As C.P Brown states in page 266 of his book A Grammar of the Telugu language: "Every Telugu rule is laboriously deduced from a Sanskrit canon". As David Shulman states in page 3 of his book Classical Telugu Poetry: "The enlivening presence of Sanskrit is everywhere evident in Andhra civilization, as it is in the Telugu language". Based on all these facts Telugu should be classified into
Indo-Aryan group.
Jaggi81 (
talk) 00:37, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Nannaya Bhattarakudu’s Andhra Mahabharatamu produced around the 11th century is commonly referred to as the first Telugu literary composition (Aadi kaavyam). Although there is evidence of Telugu literature before Nannaya, he is still referred to as Aadi Kavi (the first poet) because he was the first poet to establish a formal grammar for written Telugu. 'Nannaya meticulously laid down the ground rules and semantics of writing in Telugu by borrowing from Sanskrit grammar and inventing original rules'. Telugu literature until then was Prakrit based and devoid of a grammar.
Jaggi81 (
talk) 01:09, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Inscriptions containing Telugu words dated back to 400 BC were discovered in
Bhattiprolu in
Guntur district. English translation of one inscription reads: “Gift of the slab by venerable Midikilayakha.
[5]
Primary sources are
Prakrit/Sanskrit
inscriptions found in the region, in which Telugu places and personal names are found. From this we know that the language of the people was Telugu, while the rulers, who were of the
Satavahana dynasty, spoke Prakrit.
[6]
Jaggi81 (
talk) 01:55, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Some other scholars associate Telugu as originating from a frequently used Sanskrit word Kalinga or Kling, which in Puranas and Ashok's inscriptionsdepicted people of Continental India as it is even today in the Malay language.
[7]
Onamaalu, or the Telugu alphabet consist of 60 symbols - 16 vowels, 3 vowel modifiers, and 41 consonants have almost 1-to-1 correspondence with Sanskrit alphabets, yet another proof of its influence on its evolution.
[8]
Though no inscriptions in Telugu language (as it is written/ spoken today) have been found prior to the period 200 BC 500 AD, inferences to the existence of Telugu during that time can be made from the frequent use of words of that period found in the Telegu region found on Parakrit (Sanskrit)inscriptions and also in anthology of poems in Parakrit language, collected by the Satavahna dynasty King all point to existence of Telugu and Telugupeople in that period between the Krishna and Godavri rivers basin. Thus, we can safely presume Telugu to have originated earlier than 200 BC.
[9] (Source:Ostom Ray - Telugu The Language, People And The Land Through Ages)
Jaggi81 (
talk) 03:54, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
“The country will not survive if the language and culture are not protected. Sanskrit, which is mother of Indian languages, Telugu and other languages are unique in the world in the sense that they are inter-twined with life. Whatever said in the literature like Satakams written in the olden ages determines our life. The Indian literature helps in personality development and determines the life”
Among the Indian languages, Telugu was the only language having closest relationship with Sanskrit and this was the reason for it continuing to be strong even now - Vedula Subrahmanya Sastry(Telugu and Sanskrit scholar)
[10]
Jaggi81 (
talk) 04:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Important Things:
1. Telugu and Tamil don't belong to the same group.
2. Telugu split from Proto-Dravidian between 1500-1000 BC. So, Telugu became a distinct language by the time any literary activity began to appear in the Tamil land.
This is a universal fact but (No offense) but some Tamils language fanatics always try to categorize Telugu with Tamil leaving no room for discussion.
Jaggi81 (
talk) 05:04, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Jaggi, you want to stop spamming talkpages and introducing your racial nonsense into articles, and you want to start presenting real sources. Your behaviour is disruptive. Telugu is a Dravidian language and as such derived from Proto-Dravidian. As for the presumed date of the first characterization of Telugu from common Dravidian, cite a scholarly linguistic source. Every language has prehistoric predecessors, that's a null statement. No, Telugu is not particularly close to Tami within Dravidian. It is apparently closer to Kui. At what point did Telugu split from Kui and the general South-Central group? Probably during the final centuries BC, I don't know, cite a linguist. Just stop citing random urls you googled, ok? Telugu is a South-Central Dravidian language which came into close contact with Prakrit during the period 300 BC to AD 500. For all practical purposes, this period can be considered the formative phase of Telugu, or "Proto-Telugu". The actual history of Telugu begins in the 6th century. Before 300 BC, the predecessor language will likely have been undifferentiated Proto-Telugu-Kui with none of the features that distinguish Telugu in particular, but we cannot verify this, because 500 BC is deep prehistory in South India. -- dab (𒁳) 11:14, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
I just reverted the article to revision 326173660. Reasons are as follows:
I'd suggest Jaggi81 ( talk · contribs) discuss any changes here on the talk page before making them. The user has already been blocked once for disruptive editing. - Spaceman Spiff 20:01, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
jgg ( talk) 22:25, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Telugu split from Proto-Dravidian between 1500-1000 BC. So, Telugu became a distinct language by the time any literary activity began to appear in the Tamil land.
[11]
[12]
Given two citations here (title = Andhra Samkshipta Charitra | author=Etukoori Balaraama Moorti) and Tripod.
I never made this edit before as
dab(
Talk) asked me for reference and here it is now —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Jaggi81 (
talk •
contribs)
Telugu alphabets consists of 60 symbols - 16 vowels, 3 vowel modifiers, and 41 consonants have almost 1-to-1 correspondence with Sanskrit alphabets.
[13]
Given a valid reference of a book.
What about the above it has valid reference.
In Telugu we have three distinct pronunciations for "cha" and "ja". While the soft sounds of "cha" and "ja" and the harsh sounds of "chha" and "jha" are not uncommon, found in many if not all Indian languages, the "tcha" and "tja" of Telugu are rather unique and have interesting history both in terms of their pronunciation and the way they are written. As we know, "tcha" and "tja" are written as "cha" and "ja" but with the Telugu numeral 2 written on top of the letter.
[14]
[15]
"Tcha" and "tja" are found in Marathi also. But Marathi was derived from Sanskrit and Prakrit, neither of which have "tcha" or "tja." Hindi, which also derived from Sanskrit and Prakrit, does not have these sounds. So, how did Marathi get them? It is believed that the sounds were adapted from Telugu. Some scholars believe that Telugu and Bengali in turn acquired them from Pali. [16] [17]
Given two citations here (title = Andhra Samkshipta Charitra | author=Etukoori Balaraama Moorti) and Tripod. I think will fit in Vocabulary section —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaggi81 ( talk • contribs)
Assumption of good faith ends here Jaggi81, I took you on your word and have been trying to work with you. Now I see that this entire section is copy pasted from here and that usenet posting cites a completely different source. Quite honestly, this is back to where we started, nothing more than disruption. - Spaceman Spiff 00:14, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
(Go to Table of Contents)
By Etukoori Balaraama Moorti in Andhra Samkshipta Charitra
English translation : PALANA (nparinand@cas.org)
If it was not in good faiths, I would not have taken so much time to contribute to the article.
jgg (
talk) 00:32, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Telugu grammarians have stated that without reference to a Sanskrit Dictionary, it would be impossible to write a sentence with accuracy and finish
[18].
Every Telugu Gramatical rule is laboriously deduced from a Sanskrit canon.
[19]
The above has a Valid reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaggi81 ( talk • contribs)
Spaceman Spiff, If you think my citations are wrong, can you help me use right templates and correct the templates?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaggi81 ( talk • contribs)
Thanks, I am relatively new to Wikipedia before. Sure... lets discuss. jgg ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:55, 18 November 2009 (UTC).
according to SIL Ethnologue, Andhra, Gentoo, Tailangi, Telangire, Telegu, Telgi, Tengu, Terangi, Tolangan [5] -- this is in alphabetical order, check out google books to get an idea which of these names occur at all frequently. -- dab (𒁳) 15:36, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
The name 'Telugu' must have been authentic rather than 'Tenugu' because all Persian chronicles dating back to 11th century talk of 'Tilang", "Tilangan" etc., Malik Maqbul, the Wazir of Feroz Shah Tughlak and whose name was Gannama Nayaka before his capture at Warangal had a title known as "Khan-i-Jahan Tilangani". Kumarrao ( talk) 10:32, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
I don't follow your argument at all, but yes, "Telugu" is both the most common term used in English and the close transliteration of the native name. -- dab (𒁳) 11:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
I see, you were referring to recently-added random and unsourced musings. I have removed this bit. -- dab (𒁳) 11:49, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
This article doesn't have enough info about the origin of Telugu.
Jonny555 ( talk) 07:42, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
This article is very nice except "lessa" in Krishnadevaraya's statement has been transiterated into an english "less" with a telugu suffix "a" meaning "is it?". Actually "lessa" means "shreshtamu" or "top quality" or "best".
It is clear that Satavahanas were Brahmin (Aryan) kings known as Andhras and who spoke Sanskrit. They ruled over other Aryan subjects who spoke Prakrit (evolved into present day Marathi) and Dravidian subjects who spoke Proto-Telugu in present day Andhra Pradesh and Proto-Kannada in present day Karnataka region. Graually, Telugu came to be known and identified as Andhra Bhasha (Al-Biruni referred to 'Andhri' spoken and written in the area south of Vindhyas). Satavahanas, Ikshvakus (Arya Kshatriyas), Pallavas (Indo-Iranian) and Chalukyas (Arya Kshatriyas) ruled over South India for a long time till the native Dravidians (Sudra communities) such as Hoyasalas, Cholas, Kakatiyas, Vijayanagar kings and Nayak kings gradually took over. Kannambadi must keep in mind that Aryan Chalukyas first ruled from Rayalaseema (A.P.,) districts, moved to Karnataka region and spread to Telangana region and lastly to coastal Andhra areas. As they moved over these regions they patronized the Dravidian languages prevalent in the respective regions. They intermarried with locally powerful Dravidian communities. The message is that the rulers most often were Aryan Sanskrit speakers but who patronized local languages. Interestingly, the earliest Kannada poets were of Telugu descent. Pampa brothers were Brahmins who took to Jainism and belonged to Kammanadu region of present day Guntur district. They migrated to Karimnagar region for royal patronage of Chalukyas who came from Karnataka areas. Another point: Bhattiprolu scipt was not so called 'Old Kannada'. It was Brahmi script brought by Buddhists to South India from Gangetic plains. It evolved into Tamil/Telugu/Kannada scripts in due course of time. Kannambadi should refrain from branding it as 'Old Kannada'. Geographically, it would be proper to describe it as "Old Telugu-Kannada" script. In fact, that is the way archaeologists write it in their books and monographs. Kumarrao 08:07, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
The article says that the word "Telugu" is pronounced [ˈt̪elʊgʊ]. In English? This is unlikely: speakers of standard English of either the British or American varieties don't pronounce the first consonant [t̪], and we don't have the vowel from the word "foot" in either completely unstressed syllables or word-final position. Is that the way it's pronounced in Telugu? If so, that should be made explicit, and then we still need the pronunciation of the word in English, which I believe would be [ˈtɛləˌgu:]. — Largo Plazo ( talk) 16:10, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't know about everyone else, but I pronounce it as [tʰɛluˈgu] in English. Don't know why, but that's what feels right to me. 70.33.86.70 ( talk) 14:42, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Some words that describe objects/actions associated with common or everyday life: like తల tala (head), పులి puli (tiger), ఊరు ūru (town/city), have cognates in other Dravidian languages and are indigenous to the Dravidian language family
The above para which was added in article is wrong...
" Word తల tala (head) is of Sanskrit(Indo-Aryan) origin and not indigenous to the Dravidian language family ".</ br>
Sanskrit :तल . Transliteration: Tala . Meaning: Surface.
Sanskrit:काय - तल . Transliteration:kaaya - tala(n) . Meaning: Body Surface.
Sanskrit:काय . Transliteration:kaaya . Meaning: Body.
http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?script=HK&tinput=tala&country_ID=&trans=Translate&direction=AU.
Hi, editors of Telugu language. I'm currently working on cleaning up the Lingua franca page, on which Telugu is currently listed. I'd like your input on this issue. First, the definition of a lingua franca, per that page, is "a language systematically used to communicate between persons not sharing a mother tongue, in particular when it is a third language, distinct from both persons' mother tongues." Based on my initial reading of this page, I'm inclined to say that Telugu does not actually meet this criteria--that is, that Telugu is actually the native language of people who regularly use it. However, I'm not entirely clear. Is it mainly spoken as a native language? Or are there a large group of people who learn Telugu as a second (or third, etc.) language as a means of communicating with others who don't share their own language? For instance, English clearly meets the definition of lingua franca for India, and Hindi probably does as well, as they are learned as second languages for the purpose of communicating with people of different native languages. But I can't tell if Telugu fits this category. I appreciate any input you can give me on this issue. Qwyrxian ( talk) 06:24, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
Guys, can we get some serious IPA charts for the Telugu phonology section? What we have now is sort of sad, since the consonants section doesn't use IPA and the vowels section isn't actually a chart... Also, why is there a consonant chart with what I assume to be Telugu words for Retroflex, etc, rather than the English counterparts?? 97.81.65.138 ( talk) 07:06, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
It's been a month and no one knows a consonant or vowel phoneme inventory? There has to be at least one source published that we can cite. 70.33.86.70 ( talk) 14:40, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
I made some changes to the article's introduction page by fixing the sentence structures. Sadly, my edit got reverted by an unknown user using an IP address. The user also blamed me for vandalism and threatened me to stop being a stock puppet.
Telugu (natively తెలుగు telugu) is a language native to the Indian subcontinent. It is classified as a Dravidian language with heavy Indo-Aryan influence. Telugu has the third largest number of native speakers in India (74 million according to the 2001 census) and is 15th in the Ethnologue list of most-spoken languages worldwide.
Can anyone tell me whether there is something wrong with this sentence? Is this vandalism? I'm very sad right now. kotak kasut 15:56, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
I have no clue what the point of contention is with regard to this language, but, perhaps you should discuss your preferred versions on the talk page rather than fight it out on the article. I've protected the article for the time being. -- RegentsPark ( talk) 12:27, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Article here clearly says "Telugu is classified as Dravidian language with heavy Indo-Aryan influence". I dont understand why people are changing it to "Telugu is classified as Dravidian language". People are just trying to put their personal agenda
The earliest mention of the Andhras is said to be in Aitereya Brahmana (2000 B.C.). It indicates that the Andhras, originally an Aryan race living in north India migrated to south of the Vindhyas and later mixed with non-Aryans. Regular history of Andhra Desa, according to historians, begins with 236 B.C., the year of Ashoka's death. During the following centuries, Satavahanas, Sakas, Ikshvakus, Eastern Chalukyas, Kakatiyas ruled the Telugu country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.169.165.255 ( talk) 16:31, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Hence it is very important to mention Indo_aryan Influence. In telugu you cant find alternative native word for sanskrit word. </ br> Ex: </ br> In telugu
Head - Tala or Tala Kaya or Sirassu etc.. All are sanskrit origins. Tell me what is native word?
" Word తల tala (head) is of Sanskrit(Indo-Aryan) origin </ br>
Sanskrit :तल . Transliteration: Tala . Meaning: Surface.
Sanskrit:काय - तल . Transliteration:kaaya - tala(n) . Meaning: Body Surface.
Sanskrit:काय . Transliteration:kaaya . Meaning: Body. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.169.176.185 ( talk) 20:09, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Article clearly says "According to famous linguist Chenchiah, Telugu is Vikriti, that is a language formed by modification of Sanskrit and Prakrit. It would appear that Andhras adopted a form of Prakrit, which, in course of development, became the immediate ancestor of Telugu" He is a great linguist and his thoughts are worth mentioning. Article clearly says "Telugu is classified as Dravidian language" in spite of all this. I dont think it should be changed because of someone's ego problem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.169.176.185 ( talk) 20:20, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Telugu is influenced sanskrit, prakrit and many other Indo-Aryan Languages. When Andhra tribes migrated from North India to South India, they used to speak Desi baasha which is prakrit based. Telugu also got influenced by Marathi from west, Hindi and Oriya from North. So it is well known that telugu has Huge Indo-Aryan language influence —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.169.227.15 ( talk) 19:15, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
The word "Indo-Aryan" typically doesnt refer to race.
It is true that Telugu has heavy Indo-Aryan influence
He is a big-time Vandal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.45.29.251 ( talk) 23:13, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Telugu accepts foreign words with comfort and ease. Sanskrit and its vocabulary heavily influenced Telugu literature; no other language has as much of an influence on Telugu as Sanskrit has. Indeed a large fraction of the characters of the Telugu alphabet – such as many of the aspirated consonants - were created especially to facilitate the writing and pronunciation of Sanskrit words. It is, therefore no exaggeration to boast that some of the best Sanskrit pronunciation can be heard from scholars residing in the coastal districts of Andhra Pradesh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.45.29.251 ( talk) 07:48, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
APOnline
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Please donot add irrelevant external links. External links section is not an opportunity to promote your blogs or drive traffic to your websites. I observed that few links are present in every page remotely connected to Telugu or Andhra people. -- Vyzasatya 08:03, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Sandeep you are misinformed. According to page 40 of the Dravidian languages by S. Steever the Telugu script is derived from the Ashokan Braahmi script used in India from about 250 BCE as the medium for Mauryan Empire inscriptions. He goes onto state that the Braahmi script is the ancestor of scripts used in North India to the present time such as Deva Naagari and Bengali. You can also look at page 78 the Dravidian languages by Sri Bhadriraju Krishnamurti.
How come these links are in any page remotely related to telugu. They are in Tirupati, Telugu Language, Andhra Pradesh, Annamacharya, TTD?? these would be appropriate in only one article Annamayya thats about it.
-- Vyzasatya 05:07, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
yes, pranathi... sumathi sathakam is our asset.
Sandeep you are misinformed. According to page 40 of the Dravidian languages by S. Steever the Telugu script is derived from the Ashokan Braahmi script used in India from about 250 BCE as the medium for Mauryan Empire inscriptions. He goes onto state that the Braahmi script is the ancestor of scripts used in North India to the present time such as Deva Naagari and Bengali. You can also look at page 78 the Dravidian languages by Sri Bhadriraju Krishnamurti.
Ok, it was pretty clear when I saw a paragraph containing both "bigot" and "zealot" that a WP:POV revert was in our future. I think it's a pretty clearly accepted contention that Telugu is a Dravidian tongue and certainly not an Indo-European one. -- Deville ( Talk) 06:27, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Sandeep you are misinformed. According to page 40 of the Dravidian languages by S. Steever the Telugu script is derived from the Ashokan Braahmi script used in India from about 250 BCE as the medium for Mauryan Empire inscriptions. He goes onto state that the Braahmi script is the ancestor of scripts used in North India to the present time such as Deva Naagari and Bengali. You can also look at page 78 the Dravidian languages by Sri Bhadriraju Krishnamurti.
I just wanted to note that nearly all the examples of Telugu are completely useless unless they are accompanied by romanizations. If someone already knows the Telugu script, then they probably also already know enough Telugu that the examples are not edifying, and if someone doesn't know the Telugu script the examples are completely indecipherable. Someone who knows whatever the standard romanization of Telugu is should add romanizations of all the Telugu examples. Nohat 08:36, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Help add input for Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Indic) -- Dangerous-Boy 04:43, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Sandeep you are misinformed. According to page 40 of the Dravidian languages by S. Steever the Telugu script is derived from the Ashokan Braahmi script used in India from about 250 BCE as the medium for Mauryan Empire inscriptions. He goes onto state that the Braahmi script is the ancestor of scripts used in North India to the present time such as Deva Naagari and Bengali. You can also look at page 78 the Dravidian languages by Sri Bhadriraju Krishnamurti.
This sections seems to just list down the major regions and all known caste names. Can someone please check this data? Sumanth 12:31, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Hey Tajikhan. There are 17 crore Telugu speakers in states other than Andhra Pradesh. This is stated in an article of 3/11/06 in the 'HINDU' in an article titled "Telugus mark 50 years of Andhra Pradesh". Tamil Nadu was ruled by Telugu kings in medieval time. During that period many Telugus settled in Tamil Nadu. This is well known in Tamil Nadu. You cannot include Bangladeshi Bengali speakers and then say Bengali is the second most widely spoken language in India since Bangladesh is not part of India and never will be. Bangladesh is a separate Country and does not belong to India.
The present Population of Andhra pradesh is more than 10 Crores. Including second language speakers, Telugu speakers will be more than 9 crores ( or 90 Millions ) atleast in only Andhra Pradesh. Majority of North Tamil Nadu People speak Telugu. The Complete western long border of Karnataka have more than 30% Telugu Speakers. Telugu people are found in good share in Maharastra ( West) and Orrisa also.
The statement : "the second most spoken language in India after Hindi/Urdu",
should be removed as it is Bengali with 230 million speakers which qualifies for this position as it surpasses Telugu by leaps and bounds. --
68.197.142.117 09:20, 12 February 2007 (UTC) Srini Rao
The majority of 230 million Bengalis live in Bangladesh. We are taking about india and indian Telugus and indian bengalis.
The Bengali population in india is around 80 millions it is not 230 millions.
according to 1991 census The telugu population in tamilnadu 7.12% = 4 million The telugu population in karnataka 7.39% = 3.1 million The telugu population in Maharastra 1.5% = 1 million The telugu population in orissa 2.2% = 1 million [1]
no.. no.. no.... telugu is in second place. all those proofs, which have shown abow are false...
We should not get too passionate about this. I have checked 3 different sources, one is Wikipedia's own Official languages of India, the other is Ethnologue [2] and India's eCENSUS [3]. The activity of a language's film industry is not measure of how many people claim it as mother tongue. If we also consider the number of secondary speakers of Telugu, than the same must be done for Bengali. Whether or not we consider secondary speakers, the purely Indian Bengali population comes in second after Hindi, with Telugu clocking in as a close third. The data is from Indian census, and ethnologue, neither organisations has any motive to falsify this data. Let's represent reality accurately in this article. This isn't a matter of pride or emotion, it's just the facts. Taajikhan 09:55, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Also, the person who converted it back to 'second most spoken language' cited a paper that: a) wasn't concerned with the linguistic demographics of India to begin with, and b) made an uncited and usupported claim that Telugu is the second most spoken language. The second citation this person used is a back reference to redundant Telugu stub on Wikipedia that also makes an uncited and unsupported claim. Please don't change this again. Taajikhan 10:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
This is ridiculous. Whoever changed Telugu back to second place cited 2 "sources" without actually making sure what they are referencing. The first one points to a site that is not accessible, so can't possibly support the claim. The second citation points to a site that bases its information on Ethnologue. If you had actually read what it said you would see that Bengali stands at 70.56 million speakers whereas Telugu stands at 69.7 million. Looks at those numbers carefully, which one is larger? I am going to change it back to third place. DO NOT change it again unless you can produce something that YOU HAVE READ and is reputable and verifiable. Otherwise complaints to higher authorities will ensue. Taajikhan 23:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Sandeep you are misinformed. According to page 40 of the Dravidian languages by S. Steever the Telugu script is derived from the Ashokan Braahmi script used in India from about 250 BCE as the medium for Mauryan Empire inscriptions. He goes onto state that the Braahmi script is the ancestor of scripts used in North India to the present time such as Deva Naagari and Bengali. You can also look at page 78 the Dravidian languages by Sri Bhadriraju Krishnamurti.
I would like to know why my input towards history of Telugu language has been deleted. Who has done this without permission. I have provided a reliable reference from where i got this input. Please dont do this again!! If anyone wants to have a discussion on this matter, I am open to it. Don't delete the content without proof!!
Dinesh Kannambadi
Any comments on the dialect used by Telugu speaking people of Tanjavur and other parts of Tamil Nadu (e.g., "lessaa ujnu" = "baagunnindi")
I'll appreciate if you can put some material on the counting system of Telugu. Specifically, I read that there is at least one similarity, the number "seven" between Turkish and Telugu. ("Yedi" is Turkish) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sinanozel ( talk • contribs) 07:56, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I've put tags to show that I'm unsatisfied with the way the grammar section is written. Witjout paying attention to the contents, the defects of the presentation are as follows:
The special terms (like Karta etc.) should be linked correctly to relevant common linguistic notions and terms (probably, subject in this case, and not nominative case).
Agreed; the whole sentence describing the syntax is unclear. I *think* what it is saying is something like "Word order in Telegu is SOV; prepositions can be used for some arguments and adjuncts." But I'm not sure, so I don't feel qualified to edit the text. Mcswell 01:15, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't feel qualified to edit this article, because while I am a linguist, I know nothing about Telegu grammar. So I'll just make some observatiosn on this Talk page.
The terms "(single) agglutination" and "polyagglutination" are not standard. In standard linguistics, the term "agglutination" refers to the use of multiple inflectional affixes on a single word. A word that had only one inflectional affix would just be considered to be inflected.
Also, the term "syllables" in this section ("certain syllables are added to the end of a noun in order to denote its case") may be incorrect; I would have used the term "suffixes" (or better re-worded "a suffix is added to a noun in order to denote its case"). It is possible that all suffixes are at least one syllable long, but the use of the term here obscures the distinction between morphology and phonology, IMO.
Mcswell 01:11, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
The template:clarifyme tag indicates parts where examples of inflected words are given, but the basic stem of the word is missing! (Or the Nominative form, or, perhaps, some other initial form of the word should be there.) In the current situation the examples are almost useless, since one can't separate the stem and the affixes. (For example, what is the stem/initial form/Nominative of Ramuni? And BTW what does it mean? Same question for `house'.)
Thanks in advance for attention.-- Imz 00:37, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Bengali is spoken by 230 millions .But that is 160 millions of Bangladesh bengalis and 80 millions of indian bengalis. in india Telugu is second most spoken language. 80 plus millions in AP +7 milloins in Tamilnadu + 5 Millions in Karnataka + 2 millions in Orissa + 2 millions in Maharastra + 1 million in chattisghar + 2 Millions in other states.
approximately 98 millions people in india spoke Telugu. 70 + millions is indian bengali population.
so telugu is second most spoken language in india. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by VSMS ( talk • contribs) 06:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC).
The population of AP as per wikipedia is 76 millions out of these 90 % peoples mother tongue is Telugu i.e 70 millions .20 % of Tamilnadu population is Telugu 15 % of karnatak population is telugu.
The CIIL data is very old and it is based on assumption that entire population speaks the official language for the states of AP ,TN,Kerala.
please check the fallowing link for general idea.
[4]
Can someone put some pictures?
Lots of inscriptions, literature, art, etc. have been mentioned...can someone find some pictures of these things?
The Figures 1 and 2 in the articles Telugu script and Telugu language figures clearly mention the evolution of Brahmi script of Mauryan times towards modern Telugu and Kannada scripts. It is as given below:
1. Brahmi script of Mauryan period (3rd centrury BCE)
2. Brahmi script on Bhattiprolu Urn containing Buddha's dhatus (3rd century BCE)
3. Brahmi script of Satavahana period (1st centurey CE)
4. Brahmi script of Ikshvaku period (3d century CE)
5. Brahmi script of Gupta period (4th century CE)
6. Ancient Telugu-Kannada script of Salankayana period (5th century)
7. Tamil scripts of Pallava period (7th century)
8. Telugu-Kannada script of 7th century
9. Telugu-Kannada script of Eastern Chalukyas (10th century)
10. Telugu-Kannada script of Rajarajanarendra period (11th century)
11. Telugu-Kannada script of Kakatiya Ganapatideva (13th century)
12. Telugu script of Prolaya Vemareddy (14th century).
It is thus very clear that both the scripts had a common origin in Brahmi script as found on Bhattiprolu stupa urn. To call it s "Old Kannada" script is nothing but travesty of history, even though some authors might have referred it so. In fact, these figures were sourced from the same citation (Adluri, Seshu Madhava Rao Parachuri, Sreenivas. Origins of Telugu Script) which Gnanapiti refers to. But, Gnanapiti does not want to take cognizance of it. As a compromise, I agreed that it can be written as:
"The Telugu script is derived from Telugu- Kannada script which is also known as old Kannada script and developed independently at the same time as modern Kannada script which is why it has strong resemblance with it"
However, Gnanapiti insists that it should be "Old Kannada" rather than "Telugu-Kannada". It is plain chauvanism being imposed on articles regarding Telugu, Telugu language and Telugu script. Wiki should not encourage such fanaicas and chauvanists. Kumarrao 09:29, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Dear Mr Gnanapiti,
I was not citing Wiki article.
The webpage I have been referring to is: ( http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/script1d.html).
Read it carefully. Open the links to the Figures. I am sure you can read the script in column 1, which is in Telugu.
How can you say this Unless you provide proper citations for your claims, your edits hold no value. ? You have been referring to the same source all along to cling to 'old Kannada' theory. As far as chauvanism is concerned I have a good understanding of you and a handful of other Wiki Kannada users by now and I am pretty sure that your inner conscience knows it too. Kumarrao 19:13, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
It seems to me that sombody has vadalised this article ....see the headline text section "fools don't read this====500 CE - 1100 CE==== The first inscription that is entirely in Telugu corresponds to the second phase of Telugu history"
Can the moderator please clean it up and keep an eye so that its not repeated?
Also, it would be nice to put in some script charts depicting the evolution of telugu language..
Don't you folks think that it would be worthwhile to mention about our Telugu Talli?!!!
Thanks, Purushotham Reddy
- Yes could someone clean up this vandalism ? And please will people adhere to Wiki rules and sign their posts with the use of 4 consecutive tildes ? Which is this : ~ This will automatically sign your edit. Vijeth 02:15, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
From many indications, it appears that the present day Rayalaseema in Andhra Pradesh was the first home of Chalukyas. As early as 1st Century CE, they were mentioned as being the vassals and chieftains under the Satavahana rule. Their place of residence at that time was the Cuddapah area. They apparently migrated to the northern Karnataka area after suffering loses at the hands of Pallava kings. They eventually established one of the most brilliant and powerful empires of South Indian history. At their peak, they controlled the better part of western and southern India. They re-entered the Telugu land via the present day Telangana. This region was their strong hold for over six centuries. Although they tended to favor Kannada in the beginning, it is in Telangana that they re-learned Telugu. When the dynasty had branched off into Western and Eastern kingdoms, the eastern branch(es) had completely become Telugu speaking. Both branches continued to patronize Telugu and Kannada. The 'trinity' (ratna traya) of early Kannada literature Pampa, Ponna and Ranna all lived in Telugu lands far from the border (because of their origin or patronage). More than any single ruling clan, it is the Chalukyas who influenced the modern form of Telugu script and its affinity with modern Kannada script.See ( http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/index.html). Kumarrao 10:49, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
The features listed for Telugu consonants just about the Phonology section needs to be translated. The terms used are totally inaccessible to any reader who is not already familiar with South Asian linguistic tradition. Even as a linguist specializing in South Asian languages, I had to look up one or two of the words in its English translation. There's no need to use the Telugu words here (without translation), as all of the words used have English equivalents. These features are by no means restricted to Telugu consonants! -- SameerKhan 02:14, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Gnanapiti either does not have time to read the citations or he deliberately chooses to ignore things that are not convenient for him.
I reproduce here the paragraphs from the citations I quoted.
1. Original home of Andhra Chalukyas (Durga Prasad'd book, Page 86):
The word 'Chalukya' seems to have been derived from the word 'Chalkya' which was the original form of the dynastic name. Like the Chutus and Kadambas, the Chalukyas were an indigenous tribe. They rose to importance in the later Satavahana period and asserted their independence after the downfall of the central empire. In the Maruturu inscription of Pulakesin II, a village that was granted by him is said to be situated in the Chalukya Vishaya. It is therefore clear that the original word of 'Chalukya' was applied to a territorial division or a Vishaya of a kingdom. Like the Pugiyas, the Hiranyakas and the Dhanakas of the (Ikshvaku period, the territorial division came to be known as Chalukya after the Chalukyan clan. The provenance of the Maruturu grant and also the other factors mentioned in it clearly prove that this Chalukya Vishaya must have comprised portions of the ceded districts of Andhra Pradesh including perhaps parts of the Mahboobnagar district of Telangana, Hence the Chalukyas were the original residents of this area (Ceded districts mean Rayalaseema region of Kadapa-Kurnool and Palamuru).
2. The route of Andhra Chalukyas: ( http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/script1d.html)
From many indications, it appears that the present day Rayalaseema in Andhra Pradesh was the first home of Chalukyas. As early as 1st Century CE, they were mentioned as being the vassals and chieftains under the Satavahana rule. Their place of residence at that time was the Cuddapah area. They apparently migrated to the northern Karnataka area after suffering loses at the hands of Pallava kings. They eventually established one of the most brilliant and powerful empires of South Indian history. At their peak, they controlled the better part of western and southern India. They reentered the Telugu land via the present day Telangana.
3. Script ( http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/script1a.html):
The Andhra (Satavahana) dynasty introduced the brahmi to the present day Kannada and Telugu regions. The earliest inscriptions found in the Tamil land belong to more or less the same period. A number of early Satavahana coins and other remains were found in Tamil Nadu. It is therefore reasonable to assume that Satavahanas introduced the script to the Tamil country also. The Satavahanas were, for some time, vassals of the Mauryan Empire. Mauryan Emperor Asoka the great (reign: 269-232 BCE) and the rise of Buddhism played stellar roles in championing this spread of writing. Thus, Telugu and all the other south Indian languages had their scripts descended from the brahmi.
4. The time period is pre-Mauryan:
( http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/script1d.html)
Row 3 (Fig. T1) is the 3rd Century BCE script found on the urn containing a portion of Buddha's mortal remains. The urn was the central object at the great monastery in BhaTTiprOlu in central Andhra Pradesh. There were other such famous sacred containers housing Buddha's teeth or bones at Amaravati, Nagarjuna Konda, Danta Puram and other Stupas. Some of these Stupas were constructed by the Naga kings of Andhra even before the Mauryan and Satavahana rule.
5. Old Telugu:
See the tabular depiction of Telugu script evolution in:
( http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/telulipi1a.jpg)
Now, for goodness sake, stop your vandalism in Telugu-related articles. If you have further questions ask Durga Prasad and Adluri (the same logic which you play upon others in Wiki). Write whatever you like in Kannada articles. This applies to your fellow Kannada Users too. Kumarrao 18:22, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Gananapiti refuses to see the reason. On the other hand long-winding and irrelevant arguments are made. I shall settle for the edit of User:Altruism in this article. At the same time, all the baseless statements that Telugu script is derived from 'Old Kannada' should be edited from Telugu-related articles. Kumarrao 05:40, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
---It is OK. There must be a "give and take" policy when one wants to coexist with others on this globe. Kumarrao 13:13, 3 July 2007 (UTC
Kumar Rao looks like you are a politican and politics is your profession..has there been any systematic study done on telugu script by any scholar worthy of mentioning..if yes produce his/her findings..we dont want your theory to be imposed on wikipedia...state facts..show evidence..no assumptions..no theory here..be logical..also try to read why there are kannada and tamil inscriptions in abudance in andhra pradesh..read about all the inscriptions found in andhra pradesh..
Among the four major Dravidian languages Telugu is distinct because of its origin whereas Kannada and Malayalam evolved from Tamil. The script of Telugu and Kannada is common becuase the original Asokan Brahmi script (Bhattiprolu script), used by Satavahanas for 400 years, was taken to Karnata country by Chalukyas, the feudatories of Satavahanas. The inscriptional evidence for Kannada is no doubt earlier to that of Telugu (of Renati Cholas; 573 CE). That does not mean Telugu script evolved from Kannada script. On the contrary it is the other way round.
As a compromise, it is prudent to use "Telugu-Kannada script" in Telugu-related articles and Kannada uers are free to use "Old Kannada" in Kannada-related article. Please also refrain from making statements in Kannada articles that Telugu script evolved from Kannada script. I am sure it is fair and just to everyone concerned. Kumarrao 14:10, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
KUMARRAO------
WHAT DOES IT SAY....HE FOLLOWED KANNADA LITERATURE WORK TO WRITE FIRST LITERATURE PIECE. THAT TO AT THE MERCY OF KANNADA RULERS. NANNAYYA WAS CALLED ADIKAVI OF TELUGU. THIS SHOWS WHAT TELUGU OWES TO KANNADA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nannayya
STOP UR USELLS WORDS....THIS ALSO SHOWS HOW MUCH TELUGU OWES TO SANSKRIT...THERE IS NOTHING GREAT ABOUT TELUGU COMPARED TO KANNADA...KANNADA LITERATURE IS RICHER THAN TELUGU AND KANNADA INSCRIPTIONS ARE FOUND HIGHEST IN THE COUNTRY WHICH GOES TO PROVE THAT KANNADA LANGUAGE HAS BEEN THE RULERS LANGUAGE FOR LONG TIME...KANNADA AND TAMIL INSCRIPTIONS ARE FOUND ABUNDANTLY IN ANHDRA PRADESH. BESIDES MANY HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANT PLACES ARE FOUND KANRANATAKA AND TAMIL NADU...LEAVE ASIDE GOD TIRUPATHI,MANTRALAYA,SRISAILAM WHICH HAVE ROOTS IN KANNADA RULERS...HYDERBAD WITH MUSLIM RULERS...WHAT IS THERE IN ANDHRA....
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.255.139.2 ( talk) 04:49, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Both the users User:Sumanth and User:Lotlil have saved the day for me and the dignity of Telugu language. There cannot be more authentic references than these five (cited above) in favour of Telugu-Kannada script. They happen to be the most authentic pieces of work from a great scholar of Dravidian languages (Krishnamurty) and a great epigraphist (Sarkar). Although I was aware of them I could not get these references and had to face the most unreasonable attacks on me. I wasted considerable amount of my valuable time pointing towards the Tables T1a and T1b (Adluri's reference) again and again but a group of persons conveniently ignored that. I visited National Museum in New Delhi and the gallery on Indian scripts there thrice. All the displays mentioned Bhattiprolu script and evolution of Telugu-Kannada script. I noticed nowhere "old Kannada" script. Unfortunately, I could not get a book relating to this information. Nor was I allowed to photograph the display charts. I mentioned this in my discussion and speculated that "old Kannada" usage was invented by some biased scholars which crept into books and websites including that of Adluri. I hope this group will stop vandalizing Telugu articles. They can certainly use "old Kannada" on the basis of three or four websites available for them but must refrain from claiming that Telugu script evolved from that of Kannada. I have added all these new references now. If anyone vandalizes the article again I shall request for blocking such Users. Kumarrao 19:45, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
Sandeep you are misinformed. According to page 40 of the Dravidian languages by S. Steever the Telugu script is derived from the Ashokan Braahmi script used in India from about 250 BCE as the medium for Mauryan Empire inscriptions. He goes onto state that the Braahmi script is the ancestor of scripts used in North India to the present time such as Deva Naagari and Bengali. You can also look at page 78 the Dravidian languages by Sri Bhadriraju Krishnamurti.
Telugu is spoken by a large number of populations in both Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. In Karnataka all the districts bordering Andhra Pradesh have e considerable percentage of Telugu speakers.(Ex:Bangalore,Kolar,Bellary..Etc.)
In Tamil Nadu almost all Western Districts (Bodering Kerala) have a huge nukber of Telugu speaking population (Ex; Coimbatore Dist.,Karur,Dindigul,Madurai,Thirunelveli,Sivakasi).They might form around 10 - 12% of teh entire population of Tamil Nadu.Same case with union territory Pondicherry.
Some one needs to add that info into the Telugu Language page. 59.160.207.20 ( talk) 11:54, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
This statement by Kishnadevaraya should be in this article. It is also a fact that the Englishmen who called Telugu the "Italian of the East" called it that because of its mellifluous nature. That needs to be mentioned more so.
'DESABASHALANDU TELUGU LESSA'.... which is mentioned by king SRI KRISHNA DEVARAYA. i am supporting this thing.
This should be definetly included. "Desabhashalandu telugu lessa, tene kante theeyani telugu bhasha"-- Sandeep346 ( talk) 09:54, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
It is noticed that the article is presently void of any images. It is better to add images like that of ancient palm leaf manuscripts written in Telugu.
There needs to be some kind of a standard way of writing Telugu names in English. Gupta, Setty, Rao, Reddy, Sastri, Chowdhury, Naidu etc. All of these are written and spoken as a part of First name or Given Name in Telugu. Why are they separated in to a different word in English?
Most of the names with these "suffixes" (mosly derived derived from our caste system) have a different Last name or Family name. I think we should create some kind of a standard to eliminate this confusion atleast for Wikipedia.
chinni September 5 2005
I apologize for making changes without enough discussion. Also, at Wikipedia, I realize that we're trying to create article names as the they're most commonly known as - in English language. So, people like
P V Narasimha Rao may have to be written like this (Rao). In other cases like
Yellapragada Subbarao, I cannot imagine splitting it up in to Subba Rao.
We should probably go by the most common way of writing these names and put the alternatives in the introduction in the articles. But, we need to come up with a standard way of wrting Telugu people's names in English, esp. when writing about people who were seldom known before in English.
chinni September 5 2005
yes, chinni... nenu kooda agree chesthunnanu. telugulo ivi kevalam cast basega vachinavi thappite maremee ledu. so.. u rright
Usually telugu names are long. The surname is derived from the name of the village or caste. Often people have both the names, one at the beginning and the other at the end of the name. The middle part forms the given name. Sometimes father's name is also added as a suffix to the given name. So in case of the former chief minster
Nara Chandrababu Naidu, Nara is derived from "naravaripally" which is his hometown and
Naidu is the name of his caste.--
Sandeep346 (
talk) 09:59, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Sandeep you are misinformed. According to page 40 of the Dravidian languages by S. Steever the Telugu script is derived from the Ashokan Braahmi script used in India from about 250 BCE as the medium for Mauryan Empire inscriptions. He goes onto state that the Braahmi script is the ancestor of scripts used in North India to the present time such as Deva Naagari and Bengali. You can also look at page 78 the Dravidian languages by Sri Bhadriraju Krishnamurti. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.126.144.118 ( talk) 10:25, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
I have seen this article before on commercial websites. I am just concerned about the legality of copy -pasting from some other website. Is the contributor the original creator of this write-up? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ssundar ( talk • contribs) 19:56, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Sandeep you are misinformed. According to page 40 of the Dravidian languages by S. Steever the Telugu script is derived from the Ashokan Braahmi script used in India from about 250 BCE as the medium for Mauryan Empire inscriptions. He goes onto state that the Braahmi script is the ancestor of scripts used in North India to the present time such as Deva Naagari and Bengali. You can also look at page 78 the Dravidian languages by Sri Bhadriraju Krishnamurti. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.126.144.118 ( talk) 10:27, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
I see a lot of focus on the word Andhra and its antiquity. One can't focus on the antiquity of the word "Karnata" whose earliest mention goes back to Skandha purana of 1000-500 B.C and call it the anitiquity of Kannada, though these people of Karnataka most defnitely spoke some version of proto Kannada. This is misleading because there is no concrete proof that the two words (Andhra and Telugu) are related right from earliest times. Later Andhras defnitely took up Telugu. The early Andhras used Prakrit as their medium of communication. If one has to prove that the Andhras of Sathavahana times spoke Telugu, one has to produce full length inscriptions, not bits and pieces of Telugu words in Prakrit poetry (King Hala). Just like many Sathavahana inscriptions contained Telugu words, they also contained Kannada words in Kannada regions (Bagalkot, Raichur, Bellary inscriptions), indicating its influence on Sathavahana Prakrit in respective regions.
Dinesh Kannambadi 18:34, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Currently, this article says that Telugu is among the top fifteen most spooken languages in the world. Now, I think this may be true if we are talking about native speakers, however, Telugu does not have all that many second-language speakers relative to many other languages (about 5 million). If you factor in French, Italian, Korean, Persian, Turkish, Vietnamese, and Indonesian, all languages that seem to have less native speakers than Telugu, but more speakers in general, Telugu seems to rate more along the lines of the top 25. Admitted, the numbers are debatable, but everything I have just said comes from List of languages by number of native speakers. - Philolexica ( talk) 03:14, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
I agree that telugu is greatly influenced by sanskrit. I am a brahmin brought up in Vijayawada. Though I am 30 years old, with my limited knowledge of pure telugu that I inherited from my ancestors, telugu pandits around, old telugu movies from 1930s till 1980s and my telugu and sanskrit knowledge of text books from school it is not a surprize to me at all to accept that telugu is influenced by sanskrit.
If you see ANR movie "Tenali Ramakrishna", it that when Ramakrishna visits Sri Krishnadevaraya for the first time, the dialogue written was "నేను సంస్కృతాంధ్రాలలో చాలా కృషి చేశాను" .. this itself shows that telugu poets and pandits are generally masters in both sanskrit and telugu. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.167.242.121 ( talk) 17:19, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Even if we agree that Telugu is influenced from Prakrit, it is seen that Prakrit originated from Sanskrit. Pleas refer to 1st para from http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/script1d.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.167.242.121 ( talk) 17:50, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Dinesh, don't be upset by following criticism. I am a 77 year old Niyogi Brahmin and so I am coming from a loving angle. The official language of the Mughals was Persian. It does not mean they did not speak Hindustani. The official language of the Papal states was Latin. It does not mean they did not speak Italian. As in those two cases, Sanskrit was put on a pedestal above the local language. But Sanskrit was put on MUCH MORE of a pedestal than Persian and Latin because our Vedic Telugu Pandits considered it the Deva Bhaasha and therefore felt only it was worthy of inscriptions. It is sad you do not know the history of our Telugu pandits. My grandparents stressed the Sanskrit/Prakrit connection of Telugu and always told me Sanskrit was the mother of Telugu. They taught me that our script is closer to the original Sanskrit script than the Deva Naagari script. This is why when I moved to Delhi in 1968 I felt superior to the locals and made sure my kids spoke and wrote Telugu. Today even my grandkids speak and write Telugu in Delhi. As a result they know far more Sanskrit than their North Indian Brahmin classmates. I have seen many Andhra children in Delhi lose their Telugu identity. My maternal Grandfather was a Telugu pandit and until he died he believed that Telugu came from Sanskrit. I know with arrival of the British modern linguistics arrived and tossed aside all these beliefs as myths. But it is especially sad to to see fellow brahmins like you absorb this mlechha influence. It is especially sad to to see fellow brahmins like you being ignorant of how hard our ancestors fought to maintain the Sanskrit ethos of Telugu. They fought to their last breath. A 100 years ago every Brahmin was an amateur Telugu/Sanskrit pandit. Today everybody wants to be an English pandit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.126.144.118 ( talk) 09:26, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
The Shatavahanas were not Telugu speaking. Their official language was Prakrit. Just because a few telugu words appear in King Hala's poems does not make their language was telugu, just as a few Kannada words appearing in Emperor Ashokas 230BC Bhramahgiri edit (from Chitradurga) does make Kannada the official language of the Gupta dynasty. Please try to see history from real historical sense. I have seen many web sites trying to confuse people and relate the Early Andhras to Telugu. The firts record of Telugu Language is from 633 AD i believe and that too in Old Kannada script (Guntur inscription?).
Dinesh Kannambadi 15:21, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Folks there is a telugu wikipedia http://te.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B0%AE%E0%B1%8A%E0%B0%A6%E0%B0%9F%E0%B0%BF_%E0%B0%AA%E0%B1%87%E0%B0%9C%E0%B1%80 .. and a lot is there to synergize
- Preeti Pisupati —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.167.242.121 ( talk) 17:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Guys, I'm adding a cleanup tag to this article since there's so much work to be done (just compare this with the article on
Tamil). Pls don't remove this tag at least until these tasks are done:
Please feel free to add to this list, I'm sure I've left out many more action items.
Let's roll up sleeves, people: there's work to be done :) - Rohit Dasari 20:30, 22 August 2006 (UTC) i too accept with sumanthk.as a resident and native of andhra pradesh i heard only tenugu as a substitute of telugu.Even the word tenugu is also used in some songs or in written scripts,it's not a word which is used frequently.Telungu is the word i never heard from any of my grand parents or from any other old people. Maybe tamilians and other states may call like that due to communication problem as they can not spell many of our words clearly.Or it may be the nick name as the telugu people call tamil people as "arava people". Aparna Kalla —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.97.19.188 ( talk) 02:53, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
In describing the Telugu language with friends, I came to the conclusion that gender in Telugu in fact is unique because only a human (or divine) male is masculine. Everything else in the universe is referred to as feminine, both inanimate objects and living things like plants and animals. Male and Female dogs are referred to as "adi" and "vellindi"
Can someone comment on this and if so, add a bit in the gender section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.165.27.182 ( talk) 19:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
There ARE three genders in Telugu--masculine, feminine, and neutral. Please look at the plural in the example.
Singular: (M)Athanu vellaadu.(F)Aame vellindhi. (N)Adhi vellindhi.
Plural: (M)Vaallu vellaaru. (F)Vaallu vellaaru. (N)Avi vellaayi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.23.255.223 ( talk) 13:40, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
This user has a swath of edits here, many of which are identical text placed in unrelated sections of this talk page about not removing certain sentences from the introduction to this article. I'm not familiar enough to say for sure but I believe this constitutes vandalism or something else similarly eggregious. For the record, I'm removing the sentences, in their entirety, because they are not encyclopedic, are irrelevant to the introduction, are poorly presented (to be frank, the stylistic aura of the passage is nauseating), and the user has given up any level of respectability that would convince me to try to include the references. The sentences in question are as follows:
I'm putting this page on my watchlist and reading up on exactly what kind of wikicrime this is (I remember something about edit wars in one of the policies), but the point is it needs to stop. I don't have the authority to weild the discipline stick, but I can tell the zealous anonymous that continuation of this kind of activity will probably result in restricted priveleges, which may mean outright banning.
If you are that serious about having these references in the article, they belong as citations to encyclopedically-written content about Telugu. This means that you cannot simply dump quotations into the article. Write something, some sentences about the conclusions reached by Dravidian language scholars, and cite your books. There are countless sentences I am sure you could come up with about this relationship to Sanskrit. This is not enough reason to quote them in an encyclopedia article. If quotation is called for, you do not need to name the book (this belongs in the citation), let alone the page number (which does not belong at all), and introducing three of these quotations in a row with identical clauses ("As ... states in page ... of his book ...:" - which, as long as we're talking about it, is not punctuated properly) is incredibly poor form.
The bottom line is, your edits have been removed, apparently multiple times, for a simple reason: they do not belong in this article. Stop, and furthermore do not vandalise the talk page in order to bring attention to the issue. this raven is icy ( talk) 00:33, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Isn't "Telegu" a common variant? It's strange that there's absolutely no mention of this spelling. Acsenray ( talk) 20:36, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
I believe Telugu should be classified as
Indo-Aryan language. Telugu has more sanskrit words than dravidian and that is undeniable. I am presenting few facts here .
In page 14 of the book- A History of Telugu Literature By Chenchiah, Bhujanga, he states -"
Telugus (may) have been in the remote past a Dravidian people possessing a non-Aryan culture, but they seem to have lost their Dravidian identity very early in their history. In historical times they were so completely Aryanised in religion, language and literature, that for all purposes they may be treated as
Aryans.
[1]
In page 16- Telugu is Vikriti , that is a language formed my modification of sanskrit and prakrit. It would appear that Andhras adopted a form of Prakrit which, in course of development, became the immediate ancestor of Telugu
[2].
Now there are more sanskri words in telugu than Dravidian.
Sanskrit is the oldest next comes Telugu. The logical proof is.. The linguistic prakriya (Game) of Sanskrit Avadhana is existing only Telugu. From this the immediate next language of Sanskrit is Telugu. In other languages Avadhana disappeared. Obviusly son possesses more features of father than grand son , because son is more immediate
[3].
I wish to see more telugu people here than Tamils(No Offense). —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Jaggi81 (
talk •
contribs) 22:51, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
(1) B.C. 200 -- A.D. 500 : During the first phase, we only come across names of places and personal names of Telugu in Prakrit and Sanskrit inscriptions found in the Telugu country. Telugu was exposed to the influence of Prakrit as early as the 3rd century B.C.' From this we know that the language of the people was Telugu, although the language of the rulers was different. The first complete Telugu inscription belongs to the Renati Cholas, found in Erragudipadu, Kamalapuram taluk of Cuddapah district and assigned to about A.D. 575. Source: Revenue Department (Gazetteers)
[4]
Jaggi81 (
talk) 00:13, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
As Velcheru Narayana Rao states in page 3 of his book Classical Telugu Poetry: "every Sanskrit word is potentially a Telugu word as well, and literary texts in Telugu may be lexically Sanskrit or Sanskritized to an enormous extent, perhaps sixty percent or more." As C.P Brown states in page 266 of his book A Grammar of the Telugu language: "Every Telugu rule is laboriously deduced from a Sanskrit canon". As David Shulman states in page 3 of his book Classical Telugu Poetry: "The enlivening presence of Sanskrit is everywhere evident in Andhra civilization, as it is in the Telugu language". Based on all these facts Telugu should be classified into
Indo-Aryan group.
Jaggi81 (
talk) 00:37, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Nannaya Bhattarakudu’s Andhra Mahabharatamu produced around the 11th century is commonly referred to as the first Telugu literary composition (Aadi kaavyam). Although there is evidence of Telugu literature before Nannaya, he is still referred to as Aadi Kavi (the first poet) because he was the first poet to establish a formal grammar for written Telugu. 'Nannaya meticulously laid down the ground rules and semantics of writing in Telugu by borrowing from Sanskrit grammar and inventing original rules'. Telugu literature until then was Prakrit based and devoid of a grammar.
Jaggi81 (
talk) 01:09, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Inscriptions containing Telugu words dated back to 400 BC were discovered in
Bhattiprolu in
Guntur district. English translation of one inscription reads: “Gift of the slab by venerable Midikilayakha.
[5]
Primary sources are
Prakrit/Sanskrit
inscriptions found in the region, in which Telugu places and personal names are found. From this we know that the language of the people was Telugu, while the rulers, who were of the
Satavahana dynasty, spoke Prakrit.
[6]
Jaggi81 (
talk) 01:55, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Some other scholars associate Telugu as originating from a frequently used Sanskrit word Kalinga or Kling, which in Puranas and Ashok's inscriptionsdepicted people of Continental India as it is even today in the Malay language.
[7]
Onamaalu, or the Telugu alphabet consist of 60 symbols - 16 vowels, 3 vowel modifiers, and 41 consonants have almost 1-to-1 correspondence with Sanskrit alphabets, yet another proof of its influence on its evolution.
[8]
Though no inscriptions in Telugu language (as it is written/ spoken today) have been found prior to the period 200 BC 500 AD, inferences to the existence of Telugu during that time can be made from the frequent use of words of that period found in the Telegu region found on Parakrit (Sanskrit)inscriptions and also in anthology of poems in Parakrit language, collected by the Satavahna dynasty King all point to existence of Telugu and Telugupeople in that period between the Krishna and Godavri rivers basin. Thus, we can safely presume Telugu to have originated earlier than 200 BC.
[9] (Source:Ostom Ray - Telugu The Language, People And The Land Through Ages)
Jaggi81 (
talk) 03:54, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
“The country will not survive if the language and culture are not protected. Sanskrit, which is mother of Indian languages, Telugu and other languages are unique in the world in the sense that they are inter-twined with life. Whatever said in the literature like Satakams written in the olden ages determines our life. The Indian literature helps in personality development and determines the life”
Among the Indian languages, Telugu was the only language having closest relationship with Sanskrit and this was the reason for it continuing to be strong even now - Vedula Subrahmanya Sastry(Telugu and Sanskrit scholar)
[10]
Jaggi81 (
talk) 04:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Important Things:
1. Telugu and Tamil don't belong to the same group.
2. Telugu split from Proto-Dravidian between 1500-1000 BC. So, Telugu became a distinct language by the time any literary activity began to appear in the Tamil land.
This is a universal fact but (No offense) but some Tamils language fanatics always try to categorize Telugu with Tamil leaving no room for discussion.
Jaggi81 (
talk) 05:04, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Jaggi, you want to stop spamming talkpages and introducing your racial nonsense into articles, and you want to start presenting real sources. Your behaviour is disruptive. Telugu is a Dravidian language and as such derived from Proto-Dravidian. As for the presumed date of the first characterization of Telugu from common Dravidian, cite a scholarly linguistic source. Every language has prehistoric predecessors, that's a null statement. No, Telugu is not particularly close to Tami within Dravidian. It is apparently closer to Kui. At what point did Telugu split from Kui and the general South-Central group? Probably during the final centuries BC, I don't know, cite a linguist. Just stop citing random urls you googled, ok? Telugu is a South-Central Dravidian language which came into close contact with Prakrit during the period 300 BC to AD 500. For all practical purposes, this period can be considered the formative phase of Telugu, or "Proto-Telugu". The actual history of Telugu begins in the 6th century. Before 300 BC, the predecessor language will likely have been undifferentiated Proto-Telugu-Kui with none of the features that distinguish Telugu in particular, but we cannot verify this, because 500 BC is deep prehistory in South India. -- dab (𒁳) 11:14, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
I just reverted the article to revision 326173660. Reasons are as follows:
I'd suggest Jaggi81 ( talk · contribs) discuss any changes here on the talk page before making them. The user has already been blocked once for disruptive editing. - Spaceman Spiff 20:01, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
jgg ( talk) 22:25, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Telugu split from Proto-Dravidian between 1500-1000 BC. So, Telugu became a distinct language by the time any literary activity began to appear in the Tamil land.
[11]
[12]
Given two citations here (title = Andhra Samkshipta Charitra | author=Etukoori Balaraama Moorti) and Tripod.
I never made this edit before as
dab(
Talk) asked me for reference and here it is now —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Jaggi81 (
talk •
contribs)
Telugu alphabets consists of 60 symbols - 16 vowels, 3 vowel modifiers, and 41 consonants have almost 1-to-1 correspondence with Sanskrit alphabets.
[13]
Given a valid reference of a book.
What about the above it has valid reference.
In Telugu we have three distinct pronunciations for "cha" and "ja". While the soft sounds of "cha" and "ja" and the harsh sounds of "chha" and "jha" are not uncommon, found in many if not all Indian languages, the "tcha" and "tja" of Telugu are rather unique and have interesting history both in terms of their pronunciation and the way they are written. As we know, "tcha" and "tja" are written as "cha" and "ja" but with the Telugu numeral 2 written on top of the letter.
[14]
[15]
"Tcha" and "tja" are found in Marathi also. But Marathi was derived from Sanskrit and Prakrit, neither of which have "tcha" or "tja." Hindi, which also derived from Sanskrit and Prakrit, does not have these sounds. So, how did Marathi get them? It is believed that the sounds were adapted from Telugu. Some scholars believe that Telugu and Bengali in turn acquired them from Pali. [16] [17]
Given two citations here (title = Andhra Samkshipta Charitra | author=Etukoori Balaraama Moorti) and Tripod. I think will fit in Vocabulary section —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaggi81 ( talk • contribs)
Assumption of good faith ends here Jaggi81, I took you on your word and have been trying to work with you. Now I see that this entire section is copy pasted from here and that usenet posting cites a completely different source. Quite honestly, this is back to where we started, nothing more than disruption. - Spaceman Spiff 00:14, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
(Go to Table of Contents)
By Etukoori Balaraama Moorti in Andhra Samkshipta Charitra
English translation : PALANA (nparinand@cas.org)
If it was not in good faiths, I would not have taken so much time to contribute to the article.
jgg (
talk) 00:32, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Telugu grammarians have stated that without reference to a Sanskrit Dictionary, it would be impossible to write a sentence with accuracy and finish
[18].
Every Telugu Gramatical rule is laboriously deduced from a Sanskrit canon.
[19]
The above has a Valid reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaggi81 ( talk • contribs)
Spaceman Spiff, If you think my citations are wrong, can you help me use right templates and correct the templates?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaggi81 ( talk • contribs)
Thanks, I am relatively new to Wikipedia before. Sure... lets discuss. jgg ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:55, 18 November 2009 (UTC).
according to SIL Ethnologue, Andhra, Gentoo, Tailangi, Telangire, Telegu, Telgi, Tengu, Terangi, Tolangan [5] -- this is in alphabetical order, check out google books to get an idea which of these names occur at all frequently. -- dab (𒁳) 15:36, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
The name 'Telugu' must have been authentic rather than 'Tenugu' because all Persian chronicles dating back to 11th century talk of 'Tilang", "Tilangan" etc., Malik Maqbul, the Wazir of Feroz Shah Tughlak and whose name was Gannama Nayaka before his capture at Warangal had a title known as "Khan-i-Jahan Tilangani". Kumarrao ( talk) 10:32, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
I don't follow your argument at all, but yes, "Telugu" is both the most common term used in English and the close transliteration of the native name. -- dab (𒁳) 11:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
I see, you were referring to recently-added random and unsourced musings. I have removed this bit. -- dab (𒁳) 11:49, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
This article doesn't have enough info about the origin of Telugu.
Jonny555 ( talk) 07:42, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
This article is very nice except "lessa" in Krishnadevaraya's statement has been transiterated into an english "less" with a telugu suffix "a" meaning "is it?". Actually "lessa" means "shreshtamu" or "top quality" or "best".
It is clear that Satavahanas were Brahmin (Aryan) kings known as Andhras and who spoke Sanskrit. They ruled over other Aryan subjects who spoke Prakrit (evolved into present day Marathi) and Dravidian subjects who spoke Proto-Telugu in present day Andhra Pradesh and Proto-Kannada in present day Karnataka region. Graually, Telugu came to be known and identified as Andhra Bhasha (Al-Biruni referred to 'Andhri' spoken and written in the area south of Vindhyas). Satavahanas, Ikshvakus (Arya Kshatriyas), Pallavas (Indo-Iranian) and Chalukyas (Arya Kshatriyas) ruled over South India for a long time till the native Dravidians (Sudra communities) such as Hoyasalas, Cholas, Kakatiyas, Vijayanagar kings and Nayak kings gradually took over. Kannambadi must keep in mind that Aryan Chalukyas first ruled from Rayalaseema (A.P.,) districts, moved to Karnataka region and spread to Telangana region and lastly to coastal Andhra areas. As they moved over these regions they patronized the Dravidian languages prevalent in the respective regions. They intermarried with locally powerful Dravidian communities. The message is that the rulers most often were Aryan Sanskrit speakers but who patronized local languages. Interestingly, the earliest Kannada poets were of Telugu descent. Pampa brothers were Brahmins who took to Jainism and belonged to Kammanadu region of present day Guntur district. They migrated to Karimnagar region for royal patronage of Chalukyas who came from Karnataka areas. Another point: Bhattiprolu scipt was not so called 'Old Kannada'. It was Brahmi script brought by Buddhists to South India from Gangetic plains. It evolved into Tamil/Telugu/Kannada scripts in due course of time. Kannambadi should refrain from branding it as 'Old Kannada'. Geographically, it would be proper to describe it as "Old Telugu-Kannada" script. In fact, that is the way archaeologists write it in their books and monographs. Kumarrao 08:07, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
The article says that the word "Telugu" is pronounced [ˈt̪elʊgʊ]. In English? This is unlikely: speakers of standard English of either the British or American varieties don't pronounce the first consonant [t̪], and we don't have the vowel from the word "foot" in either completely unstressed syllables or word-final position. Is that the way it's pronounced in Telugu? If so, that should be made explicit, and then we still need the pronunciation of the word in English, which I believe would be [ˈtɛləˌgu:]. — Largo Plazo ( talk) 16:10, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't know about everyone else, but I pronounce it as [tʰɛluˈgu] in English. Don't know why, but that's what feels right to me. 70.33.86.70 ( talk) 14:42, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Some words that describe objects/actions associated with common or everyday life: like తల tala (head), పులి puli (tiger), ఊరు ūru (town/city), have cognates in other Dravidian languages and are indigenous to the Dravidian language family
The above para which was added in article is wrong...
" Word తల tala (head) is of Sanskrit(Indo-Aryan) origin and not indigenous to the Dravidian language family ".</ br>
Sanskrit :तल . Transliteration: Tala . Meaning: Surface.
Sanskrit:काय - तल . Transliteration:kaaya - tala(n) . Meaning: Body Surface.
Sanskrit:काय . Transliteration:kaaya . Meaning: Body.
http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?script=HK&tinput=tala&country_ID=&trans=Translate&direction=AU.
Hi, editors of Telugu language. I'm currently working on cleaning up the Lingua franca page, on which Telugu is currently listed. I'd like your input on this issue. First, the definition of a lingua franca, per that page, is "a language systematically used to communicate between persons not sharing a mother tongue, in particular when it is a third language, distinct from both persons' mother tongues." Based on my initial reading of this page, I'm inclined to say that Telugu does not actually meet this criteria--that is, that Telugu is actually the native language of people who regularly use it. However, I'm not entirely clear. Is it mainly spoken as a native language? Or are there a large group of people who learn Telugu as a second (or third, etc.) language as a means of communicating with others who don't share their own language? For instance, English clearly meets the definition of lingua franca for India, and Hindi probably does as well, as they are learned as second languages for the purpose of communicating with people of different native languages. But I can't tell if Telugu fits this category. I appreciate any input you can give me on this issue. Qwyrxian ( talk) 06:24, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
Guys, can we get some serious IPA charts for the Telugu phonology section? What we have now is sort of sad, since the consonants section doesn't use IPA and the vowels section isn't actually a chart... Also, why is there a consonant chart with what I assume to be Telugu words for Retroflex, etc, rather than the English counterparts?? 97.81.65.138 ( talk) 07:06, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
It's been a month and no one knows a consonant or vowel phoneme inventory? There has to be at least one source published that we can cite. 70.33.86.70 ( talk) 14:40, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
I made some changes to the article's introduction page by fixing the sentence structures. Sadly, my edit got reverted by an unknown user using an IP address. The user also blamed me for vandalism and threatened me to stop being a stock puppet.
Telugu (natively తెలుగు telugu) is a language native to the Indian subcontinent. It is classified as a Dravidian language with heavy Indo-Aryan influence. Telugu has the third largest number of native speakers in India (74 million according to the 2001 census) and is 15th in the Ethnologue list of most-spoken languages worldwide.
Can anyone tell me whether there is something wrong with this sentence? Is this vandalism? I'm very sad right now. kotak kasut 15:56, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
I have no clue what the point of contention is with regard to this language, but, perhaps you should discuss your preferred versions on the talk page rather than fight it out on the article. I've protected the article for the time being. -- RegentsPark ( talk) 12:27, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Article here clearly says "Telugu is classified as Dravidian language with heavy Indo-Aryan influence". I dont understand why people are changing it to "Telugu is classified as Dravidian language". People are just trying to put their personal agenda
The earliest mention of the Andhras is said to be in Aitereya Brahmana (2000 B.C.). It indicates that the Andhras, originally an Aryan race living in north India migrated to south of the Vindhyas and later mixed with non-Aryans. Regular history of Andhra Desa, according to historians, begins with 236 B.C., the year of Ashoka's death. During the following centuries, Satavahanas, Sakas, Ikshvakus, Eastern Chalukyas, Kakatiyas ruled the Telugu country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.169.165.255 ( talk) 16:31, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Hence it is very important to mention Indo_aryan Influence. In telugu you cant find alternative native word for sanskrit word. </ br> Ex: </ br> In telugu
Head - Tala or Tala Kaya or Sirassu etc.. All are sanskrit origins. Tell me what is native word?
" Word తల tala (head) is of Sanskrit(Indo-Aryan) origin </ br>
Sanskrit :तल . Transliteration: Tala . Meaning: Surface.
Sanskrit:काय - तल . Transliteration:kaaya - tala(n) . Meaning: Body Surface.
Sanskrit:काय . Transliteration:kaaya . Meaning: Body. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.169.176.185 ( talk) 20:09, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Article clearly says "According to famous linguist Chenchiah, Telugu is Vikriti, that is a language formed by modification of Sanskrit and Prakrit. It would appear that Andhras adopted a form of Prakrit, which, in course of development, became the immediate ancestor of Telugu" He is a great linguist and his thoughts are worth mentioning. Article clearly says "Telugu is classified as Dravidian language" in spite of all this. I dont think it should be changed because of someone's ego problem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.169.176.185 ( talk) 20:20, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Telugu is influenced sanskrit, prakrit and many other Indo-Aryan Languages. When Andhra tribes migrated from North India to South India, they used to speak Desi baasha which is prakrit based. Telugu also got influenced by Marathi from west, Hindi and Oriya from North. So it is well known that telugu has Huge Indo-Aryan language influence —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.169.227.15 ( talk) 19:15, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
The word "Indo-Aryan" typically doesnt refer to race.
It is true that Telugu has heavy Indo-Aryan influence
He is a big-time Vandal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.45.29.251 ( talk) 23:13, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Telugu accepts foreign words with comfort and ease. Sanskrit and its vocabulary heavily influenced Telugu literature; no other language has as much of an influence on Telugu as Sanskrit has. Indeed a large fraction of the characters of the Telugu alphabet – such as many of the aspirated consonants - were created especially to facilitate the writing and pronunciation of Sanskrit words. It is, therefore no exaggeration to boast that some of the best Sanskrit pronunciation can be heard from scholars residing in the coastal districts of Andhra Pradesh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.45.29.251 ( talk) 07:48, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
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