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I agree that some more referances and case studies would be appropriate. Maybe do some more research into famous people and characters in history who have used telepathy or claim to have used telepathy. ( Neostinker 17:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC))
This article could do with some headings earlier on (to make a much shorter intro). Also the current intro section could do with a rewrite or with shifting around into other sections, as it contains lots of material which isn't central to telepathy IMHO. Ben Finn 20:30, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Since I cannot put this on Talk:Telepathy cause it says my user id is blocked, and I dont want to put it in Telepathy cause I dont think it is of much revelance to the article, Ill put it here hoping someone else can put it on Talk:Telepathy:
In 1985, after Deborah Carthy-Deu won the Miss Universe contest, her mother told a Puerto Rican magazine that she used telepathy to help motivate her daughter.
Hope someone else can add that to the talk page or maybe they decide its good enough for the article.
Thanks and God bless you!
Sincerely yours,
I've moved your comment here, Antonio. I don't really get your explanation, though: if you can post on Talk:Main Page, then you can't be blocked! And sorry, but I don't know anything about the story you mention above, so I can't really comment on it. -- Oliver P. 00:45 May 7, 2003 (UTC)
I can only comment that I don't see how it is relevant in any way. I'm sure we could come up with a million examples of lots of people believing silly things, but that doesn't help describe the thing in an encyclopedic way. An example or two may not be out of place, but certainly it would be better to come up with a supporting example from someone more relevant than "Miss Universe's Mom", like a semi-serious researcher or something. LDC
In the context of the article:
"While the dream telepathy experiments results were interesting, to run such experiments required many resources (time, effort, personnel). Other researchers looked for more streamlined alternatives. These led to the so-called ganzfeld experiments, which have been most closely followed in recent times and have provided perhaps the strongest experimental evidence of telepathy to date; above chance by .05 percent."
an anonymous user inserted the following question:
"The probability of a coin toss turning up heads is .5; that is, if a coin is tossed 100 times it seems it should show heads one half of time (50) because there are only two possibilities. But in reality this rarely occurs. It is just as probable that the coin could show heads 100 times, 40 times, 60 times etc. because the .5 probability is for "each seperate" toss. What is .05 percent above chance?"
Given a run of 100 tosses of a fair coin, it is most emphatically not the case that all possible numbers of heads are equally likely. The probability of getting exactly 50 heads and 50 tails is the binomial coefficient "100 choose 50" divided by 2 to the 100th power, i.e. 100!/(((50!)^2)(2^100)), which is about 0.0796, i.e. a little more than 1 in 13 times on average. Even if that is small enough to say that it is a "rare" occurence, it is still true that this outcome is more probable than any other outcome. For example, the probability of getting 40 heads and 60 tails (or vice versa) is about 0.0108, or about 1 in 100 times on average. The probability of getting all heads (or similarly all tails) is extremely small, about 7.89E-31.
One should read/follow the chain of articles (the source material referred to in external links, not the Wikipedia articles) to find the analysis and strict meaning of the phrase ".05 percent above chance". Not being a statistician, I am hesitant to answer that. (But I do know enough about probability to calculate the probabilities of coin tosses.) I would understand the phrase to refer to the fact that data in the experiments had a higher "hit" rate than the expected value assuming random guesses (the equivalent of coin tosses). How significant the figure ".05 percent" is, again, I cannot say, not being a statistician. Grizzly 08:17, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Could someone include a short note about Sigmund Freud's essays about telepathy to this article? ("Psychoanalysis and Telepathy", "Dreams and Telepathy", are there others?) Personally I do not have any of this material available. Talamus 11:01, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
The humorous thing is: to learn telepathy, you first think of chance, and later realise, that it actually isn't. But it helps a lot developing!
Want to learn telepathy? Go, get some knowledge on the 3rd eye chakra. Books are awailable at Llewelyn on these topics. You might want to check out.
Anyway, the US and the Russian did great efforts on getting telepathy, remote viewing and other stuff like this to work for them during the Cold War
ProClub 20:44, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Nothing to do with Dyanetics- don't worry. The guy(?girl) who wrote the last paragraph of intro to Telepathy re: Einstein and Quantum/string stuff was dead on. I'm not willing to raise my head in the real quantum physics pages, but does anyone else out there beleve in the possibility of Heisenberg scale probability waves? The behavior of charged particles as a medium of transmission for subtle neurosynaptic disturbances? I'm hoping I can pass these ideas off to someone who can run with them. I haven't actually tested the game myself, but it's the best idea I've got, right now. Please don't hesitate to take my ideas and run. If they pan out that just means I'm not insane. I don't care who gets the credit. Wikipedia kicks ass.
The section now labelled "Truth and Fiction" appears to be a long essay which doesn't really advance a reader's knowledge of telepathy. Perhaps there is another article where it would be appropriate. Is there any reason we should keep it here? (PS, thanks to Psyche for all the editing!) Cheers, - Willmcw 20:35, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
This article is insanely sympathetic to a phenomenon that does not exist. There have been no generally accepted scientific, controlled experiments that have demonstrated that telepathy exists. Tempshill 18:12, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
To my knowledge, EEG has 4 different patterns:
beta: this is the waken state.
alpha: half-awaken, or daydreaming state
theta: sleeping state
delta: unconcious/deep sleeping state-
To my knowledge, there is no wave pattern named gamma. Whoever wrote the "Telepathy and harmonics" section, please confirm, that gamma was ment.
Also, the most "powerful" brainwave state is alpha, not delta. That's, why that state was discovered first. I do not know, what was ment by delta state being powerful, but it seems to be a bit confusing.
ProClub 09:19, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
I've taken the liberty of deleting almost all of the nutty 'Telepathy and technology' section (about supposed telepathy experiments conducted at a disco by someone taking medication for schizophrenia who'd also drunk beer). I wonder if the supposed experimenter was the author himself; note that 'thought broadcast' delusions are typical of schizophrenia. I thought of moving the passage here for posterity, but it's too long. Ben Finn 23:37, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
article-history 19:17 December 16, 2005
Developments in scientific research relating to the brain, and mind may have scientists saying have faith to the general public, just like religion speaks of faith. Religion is such an important part in lives of people,that any new ideas in the Philosophy of Science, and the brain may have science asking for "New Thinkers" in this kind of research. The paradox is the invisible line(space) across the discotheque dance floor. It was created by taking a tiny amount of a psychiatric drug. Look for the words "invisible line" in the movie "X-Men III". Watch the the TV show "The 4400", maybe they are all disco dancers under the influence of psychic energy. It really has been possible to create a opening through a crowd of people dancing in a discotheque. Read the new books "Challenging Nature", by Lee Silver, and "Breaking the Spell" by Daniel Dennett. John Doe, 6/5/06.
Does anyone agree with me that this section looks pretty nutty and should just be deleted? Ben Finn 23:39, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
I think the whole 'truth and reality' section is not particularly relevant and should be deleted. For a start, telepathy is not AFAIK particularly associated with religion; no major religion that I know of talks about telepathy much if at all. Also, this section goes on extensively about believers and skeptics, making out that believers in telepathy have a different view of reality and don't accept that telepathy can be objectively proved etc.; but while this may be true of New Agey beliefs in general (e.g. astrology), I don't think this is specifically relevant to telepathy. Like (say) dowsing, telepathy can be easily tested, and (despite the comments of other Wikipedians above) I doubt very many who believe in it dispute that telepathy is a factual claim that can be objectively tested. Ben Finn 23:44, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
I think this notice should now be removed. Not having read this article before, and having taken out the nuttiest bits (and added some balancing points), I think it's at least now fairly NPOV (though it's not yet a terrific article). Anyone else agree? Ben Finn 00:37, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
My Science Fair project this year is based in large part on Rupert Sheldrake's staring experiments, and I would like to find the papers that his papers (and some others I've found) refer to, to round out my understanding, and help get some idea whether he's just crazy, stupid, or lying. A google search yields nothing, and I don't know any other way to look for things online. Any suggestions? It seems like there must be some way to track these things down, or research papers wouldn't be put on the web in the first place. Also, if you know of any good research papers he doesn't cite, those would be appreciated.
BTW, partway through Telepathy In History it says "By the 1960s, many parapsychologists had become dissatisfied with the forced-choice experiments of J. B. Rhine, partly because of boredom on the part of test participants after many repetitions of monotonous card-guessing and refusing the suggestion by magicians of adding cards that were totally blank, partly because of the observed "decline effect" where the accuracy of card guessing would decrease over time for a given participant, which some parapsychologists attributed to this boredom." I can't sort this out. What is the author trying to say? I can understand that for some reason 'magicians' suggested including blank cards. Why would they do this, and why would their suggestion not be followed? Black Carrot 06:05, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
The real issue with telepathy, is the concept that a bioelectric field from a human being can pass freely through the human tissue, the skull, and central nervous system of another human being. This bioelectric field generated by the brain then has an influence on the private free-will or human energy field of another person. This bioelectric field can then influence a pattern of mental thoughts, by generating archetypes that can be preceived by the brain. The archetypes are mind pictures that can become a genetic and temporary language for the brain. The issue of transparent human energy fields is so basic to the discussion of extrasensory perception, that most people are unable to make the connection to understanding telepathy, because of privacy issues related to one's personal thoughts, or body's aura. Microwaves probably cannot communicate with the brain, but if they pass through human tissue(regardless of the so called "EMF Heating Effect"), these radiowaves may affect the mental health of human consciousness and the body. ESP may exist, if people do not become to concerned about religion, and pseudo-science affecting their physical privacy and mental free-will. Commnon sense says there is a mind-body connection associated with a person's overall health, and well being.
"controversially scientific concepts such as psychology and quantum mechanics"
Who exactly is pointing to psychology and quantum mechanics as controversial? Granted they both have their opposition, but all in all, both are quite heartily established in the scientific community, and what scientific field doesn't face opposition? I'd like to see this removed, but it's kind of the main point of the paragraph. B. Mearns *, KSC 03:32, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
If a person would say to all "I know telepathy exists from experience". "The proof you require can be given". "You must follow these simple excersises, religiously for 3 months". "There is no doubt, more will know than not". This is the age of increasing knowledge. If you are not willing to take that step, you should not write any opinions on this subject. These excersises only require half an hour per day. You can increase the time if you want. You can do daily multiples also. These excersises are so beneficial, you may do them as life long routines. This is up to the person that accepts this. Universal law dictates these will never change. You put this in, you get this out. If this seems too simple. I'm sorry. I will tell anyone who asks. Alexargen 18:14, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
I consolidated my comments here, and signed it. I don't mean to be a skeptic. And I don't intend to edit the article. Just trying to give some constructive insigts.
I did not read any plausible mechanism for telepathy, although there is plenty of evidence that telpathy is possible. See the Microwave auditory effect or Frey effect (currently feuding each other). See Electroreception. We measure brain waves with electrodes, albeit in contact with the scalp. I could go on... My point is that telepathy, if it exists, uses Electromagnetism. Q.M. may be used to explain how a Photoreceptor works, but it's absurd (too strong???) to say that the Uncertainty principle explains how the photon got to the eye. Tests for telepathy done in electrically shielded rooms atempts to destroy the only possible telephathic transport, E&M. Telepathy needs QM or String Theory no more than an old fashion Radio does.
Sometimes people make references to science in analogy. After reading the abstract by Gao Shen on entangled minds, I'm confindent in saying that it's not a Q.M. paper. But it mixes in meaningful statements about the math of Q.M. (superpostion of estates, etc.) with meaningless statements such as entangled minds...
Lastly, telepathy is defined rather abstractly. Seems to me in an attempt to avoid saying "hearing voices", as this is mostly seen as a mental illness. I don't have any evidence of people reading eachother's minds in history, but there's plenty of historical individuals hearing voices, including biblical ones.
-- Pereza 19:28, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
"some" studies. "many" studies. Cites needed, people. Otherwise, it just sounds like vague assertions meant to weasle POV away. Coren 06:25, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
You have got to be kidding. You don't have to go far to find:
The POV being, obviously, an implication that telepathy has any sort of scientific support. Weasely "many" (cites?), "including" (vague), "respected universities" (which?) and "some" (which ones, and how many exactly?). Four glaring examples in one statement. Frankly, I'd put weasel, neutrality and disputed facts warnings back on this article, but simply eliminating the multitude of vague assertions meant to imply credibility would fix a lot. Weasel tag goes back in; please don't remove it "just because". Coren 16:53, 18 April 2006 (UTC) ... and no, I don't want to rewrite the article myself to fix the flaws. I have personal views about superstitious woo-woo and pseudoscience that would make it hard to maintain NPOV myself, and unlike many I actually care enough to avoid that. Coren 16:53, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Bah! But this one was so egregious I couldn't help myself. I've been carful, though. Still needs cleanup. Coren 23:26, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
In regards to, well, most of your comments here: Who are you to judge what is truly hocus pocus and what is not? Get off your high horse.
Since telepathy plays a major role in science fiction and fantasy, a section in this article should mention the most significant uses of telepathy in fiction. Kaijan 02:10, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
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Note that there are presently no citations to previously published scientific journals for the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs for "delusions" and "psychosis" under "Origins of the concept". Thus it is likely this is someone's opinion rather than based on sound sources. These 2 paragraphs should be removed if not questioned until their verifiability is confirmed.
Please add http://www.ics.uci.edu/~jutts/UttsStatPsi.pdf as a reference and external link on the telepathy article page, since it is currently not listed. This will provide readers with a more informed view of the topic and past scientific research into telepathy. Nick5990 ( talk) 09:44, 6 July 2014 (UTC)nick5990
You're wrong, Goblin Face, as usual. Eameece ( talk) 03:55, 12 August 2014 (UTC)eameece
Wikipedia loses a lot of credibility because bonifide research into paranormal subjects is not allowed on its pages, or even on its talk pages. To say that refusal to cover this research, or even allow links to it, is NOT about "improving the article," contributes to this lack of credibility. Most people know that telepathy exists, because they have experienced it. People want information on the subject. Now, people wanting more information on this subject are blocked from getting it, just because wikipedia editors want to limit coverage to one point of view, and call any alternative views that are posted to this page "vandalism." Allowing links to research that shows telepathy exists, as well as research that doesn't, would vastly "improve" the article. Right now, coverage is limited to research saying it doesn't. This research is mostly carried out by skeptics, and most of the links on this page are not to researchers, but to skeptical writers. This is a very poor article that hurts wikipedia's reputation, and articles like this and others on related topics cause many people to look upon wikipedia as an unreliable resource on many other topics. Why can't there be a place on wikipedia for knowledge on these topics, and not just one point of view? Eameece ( talk) 19:38, 23 August 2014 (UTC)eameece
I removed this section because it is unsourced original research and taking far too much of the article. If anyone objects please discuss it here and we can talk about if. Goblin Face ( talk) 14:17, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
This edit in my opinion does not reflect the cited sources [1], because none of those sources in the lead mention telepathy being pseudoscience, they say there is no evidence for telepathy and it is non-existent. We already cover parapsychology being a pseudoscience on the article in another section, so there is no need to cover it twice. I have no problem with telepathy being described as pseudoscience but we cannot attribute statements that are not in the cited sources.
The statement "There is no scientific evidence that telepathy is a real phenomenon. Many studies seeking to detect, understand, and utilize telepathy have been carried out, but no replicable results from well-controlled experiments exist." Is more accurate to what the sources say that are in the lead. TreeTrailer ( talk) 18:01, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Because the lead will usually repeat information that is in the body, editors should balance the desire to avoid redundant citations in the lead with the desire to aid readers in locating sources for challengeable material. Leads are usually written at a greater level of generality than the body, and information in the lead section of non-controversial subjects is less likely to be challenged and less likely to require a source; there is not, however, an exception to citation requirements specific to leads. The necessity for citations in a lead should be determined on a case-by-case basis by editorial consensus. Complex, current, or controversial subjects may require many citations; others, few or none. The presence of citations in the introduction is neither required in every article nor prohibited in any article.
Although Jacobo Grinberg is mentioned in wikipedia: there is no mention of this experiment. The experiment is simple - cut and dried. Put 2 people in a room, then separate them into individual chambers where their respective brains are connected to an EEG. Bombard one patient with light pulses and find that the other also senses it according to his EEG readout. The outcome - so I have heard was about 25% positive for patients - way above statistical noise. The experiment has been replicated elsewhere (e.g. "Electroencephalographic evidence of correlated event-related signals between the brains of spatially and sensory isolated human subjects" by Standish et al.). The mechanisms suggested are quantum nonlocality and consciousness. This in itself does not prove TP exists - only that its potential is there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.85.61.113 ( talk) 11:31, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
Sheldrake has published some of the more convincing evidence for telepathy. Is there a reason for it to be left out of this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lindsay658 ( talk • contribs) 08:03, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
Schizophrenia is not always the appropriate explanation for telepathic thoughts and is dismissive of any real communications with the spiritual. Blove2012 ( talk) 22:39, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
The beginning of the article states that there exists "No convincing evidence". Convincing to whom? Clearly some people are convinced of telepathy based on their observations, while others are not convinced. Therefore, the word "Convinced" is far too subjective since it does not specify those convinced. Therefore the word should be changed to something more objective. 2401:7000:DB65:8A00:FD9B:DF21:1E43:10B3 ( talk) 23:16, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
I agree that some more referances and case studies would be appropriate. Maybe do some more research into famous people and characters in history who have used telepathy or claim to have used telepathy. ( Neostinker 17:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC))
This article could do with some headings earlier on (to make a much shorter intro). Also the current intro section could do with a rewrite or with shifting around into other sections, as it contains lots of material which isn't central to telepathy IMHO. Ben Finn 20:30, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Since I cannot put this on Talk:Telepathy cause it says my user id is blocked, and I dont want to put it in Telepathy cause I dont think it is of much revelance to the article, Ill put it here hoping someone else can put it on Talk:Telepathy:
In 1985, after Deborah Carthy-Deu won the Miss Universe contest, her mother told a Puerto Rican magazine that she used telepathy to help motivate her daughter.
Hope someone else can add that to the talk page or maybe they decide its good enough for the article.
Thanks and God bless you!
Sincerely yours,
I've moved your comment here, Antonio. I don't really get your explanation, though: if you can post on Talk:Main Page, then you can't be blocked! And sorry, but I don't know anything about the story you mention above, so I can't really comment on it. -- Oliver P. 00:45 May 7, 2003 (UTC)
I can only comment that I don't see how it is relevant in any way. I'm sure we could come up with a million examples of lots of people believing silly things, but that doesn't help describe the thing in an encyclopedic way. An example or two may not be out of place, but certainly it would be better to come up with a supporting example from someone more relevant than "Miss Universe's Mom", like a semi-serious researcher or something. LDC
In the context of the article:
"While the dream telepathy experiments results were interesting, to run such experiments required many resources (time, effort, personnel). Other researchers looked for more streamlined alternatives. These led to the so-called ganzfeld experiments, which have been most closely followed in recent times and have provided perhaps the strongest experimental evidence of telepathy to date; above chance by .05 percent."
an anonymous user inserted the following question:
"The probability of a coin toss turning up heads is .5; that is, if a coin is tossed 100 times it seems it should show heads one half of time (50) because there are only two possibilities. But in reality this rarely occurs. It is just as probable that the coin could show heads 100 times, 40 times, 60 times etc. because the .5 probability is for "each seperate" toss. What is .05 percent above chance?"
Given a run of 100 tosses of a fair coin, it is most emphatically not the case that all possible numbers of heads are equally likely. The probability of getting exactly 50 heads and 50 tails is the binomial coefficient "100 choose 50" divided by 2 to the 100th power, i.e. 100!/(((50!)^2)(2^100)), which is about 0.0796, i.e. a little more than 1 in 13 times on average. Even if that is small enough to say that it is a "rare" occurence, it is still true that this outcome is more probable than any other outcome. For example, the probability of getting 40 heads and 60 tails (or vice versa) is about 0.0108, or about 1 in 100 times on average. The probability of getting all heads (or similarly all tails) is extremely small, about 7.89E-31.
One should read/follow the chain of articles (the source material referred to in external links, not the Wikipedia articles) to find the analysis and strict meaning of the phrase ".05 percent above chance". Not being a statistician, I am hesitant to answer that. (But I do know enough about probability to calculate the probabilities of coin tosses.) I would understand the phrase to refer to the fact that data in the experiments had a higher "hit" rate than the expected value assuming random guesses (the equivalent of coin tosses). How significant the figure ".05 percent" is, again, I cannot say, not being a statistician. Grizzly 08:17, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Could someone include a short note about Sigmund Freud's essays about telepathy to this article? ("Psychoanalysis and Telepathy", "Dreams and Telepathy", are there others?) Personally I do not have any of this material available. Talamus 11:01, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
The humorous thing is: to learn telepathy, you first think of chance, and later realise, that it actually isn't. But it helps a lot developing!
Want to learn telepathy? Go, get some knowledge on the 3rd eye chakra. Books are awailable at Llewelyn on these topics. You might want to check out.
Anyway, the US and the Russian did great efforts on getting telepathy, remote viewing and other stuff like this to work for them during the Cold War
ProClub 20:44, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Nothing to do with Dyanetics- don't worry. The guy(?girl) who wrote the last paragraph of intro to Telepathy re: Einstein and Quantum/string stuff was dead on. I'm not willing to raise my head in the real quantum physics pages, but does anyone else out there beleve in the possibility of Heisenberg scale probability waves? The behavior of charged particles as a medium of transmission for subtle neurosynaptic disturbances? I'm hoping I can pass these ideas off to someone who can run with them. I haven't actually tested the game myself, but it's the best idea I've got, right now. Please don't hesitate to take my ideas and run. If they pan out that just means I'm not insane. I don't care who gets the credit. Wikipedia kicks ass.
The section now labelled "Truth and Fiction" appears to be a long essay which doesn't really advance a reader's knowledge of telepathy. Perhaps there is another article where it would be appropriate. Is there any reason we should keep it here? (PS, thanks to Psyche for all the editing!) Cheers, - Willmcw 20:35, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
This article is insanely sympathetic to a phenomenon that does not exist. There have been no generally accepted scientific, controlled experiments that have demonstrated that telepathy exists. Tempshill 18:12, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
To my knowledge, EEG has 4 different patterns:
beta: this is the waken state.
alpha: half-awaken, or daydreaming state
theta: sleeping state
delta: unconcious/deep sleeping state-
To my knowledge, there is no wave pattern named gamma. Whoever wrote the "Telepathy and harmonics" section, please confirm, that gamma was ment.
Also, the most "powerful" brainwave state is alpha, not delta. That's, why that state was discovered first. I do not know, what was ment by delta state being powerful, but it seems to be a bit confusing.
ProClub 09:19, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
I've taken the liberty of deleting almost all of the nutty 'Telepathy and technology' section (about supposed telepathy experiments conducted at a disco by someone taking medication for schizophrenia who'd also drunk beer). I wonder if the supposed experimenter was the author himself; note that 'thought broadcast' delusions are typical of schizophrenia. I thought of moving the passage here for posterity, but it's too long. Ben Finn 23:37, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
article-history 19:17 December 16, 2005
Developments in scientific research relating to the brain, and mind may have scientists saying have faith to the general public, just like religion speaks of faith. Religion is such an important part in lives of people,that any new ideas in the Philosophy of Science, and the brain may have science asking for "New Thinkers" in this kind of research. The paradox is the invisible line(space) across the discotheque dance floor. It was created by taking a tiny amount of a psychiatric drug. Look for the words "invisible line" in the movie "X-Men III". Watch the the TV show "The 4400", maybe they are all disco dancers under the influence of psychic energy. It really has been possible to create a opening through a crowd of people dancing in a discotheque. Read the new books "Challenging Nature", by Lee Silver, and "Breaking the Spell" by Daniel Dennett. John Doe, 6/5/06.
Does anyone agree with me that this section looks pretty nutty and should just be deleted? Ben Finn 23:39, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
I think the whole 'truth and reality' section is not particularly relevant and should be deleted. For a start, telepathy is not AFAIK particularly associated with religion; no major religion that I know of talks about telepathy much if at all. Also, this section goes on extensively about believers and skeptics, making out that believers in telepathy have a different view of reality and don't accept that telepathy can be objectively proved etc.; but while this may be true of New Agey beliefs in general (e.g. astrology), I don't think this is specifically relevant to telepathy. Like (say) dowsing, telepathy can be easily tested, and (despite the comments of other Wikipedians above) I doubt very many who believe in it dispute that telepathy is a factual claim that can be objectively tested. Ben Finn 23:44, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
I think this notice should now be removed. Not having read this article before, and having taken out the nuttiest bits (and added some balancing points), I think it's at least now fairly NPOV (though it's not yet a terrific article). Anyone else agree? Ben Finn 00:37, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
My Science Fair project this year is based in large part on Rupert Sheldrake's staring experiments, and I would like to find the papers that his papers (and some others I've found) refer to, to round out my understanding, and help get some idea whether he's just crazy, stupid, or lying. A google search yields nothing, and I don't know any other way to look for things online. Any suggestions? It seems like there must be some way to track these things down, or research papers wouldn't be put on the web in the first place. Also, if you know of any good research papers he doesn't cite, those would be appreciated.
BTW, partway through Telepathy In History it says "By the 1960s, many parapsychologists had become dissatisfied with the forced-choice experiments of J. B. Rhine, partly because of boredom on the part of test participants after many repetitions of monotonous card-guessing and refusing the suggestion by magicians of adding cards that were totally blank, partly because of the observed "decline effect" where the accuracy of card guessing would decrease over time for a given participant, which some parapsychologists attributed to this boredom." I can't sort this out. What is the author trying to say? I can understand that for some reason 'magicians' suggested including blank cards. Why would they do this, and why would their suggestion not be followed? Black Carrot 06:05, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
The real issue with telepathy, is the concept that a bioelectric field from a human being can pass freely through the human tissue, the skull, and central nervous system of another human being. This bioelectric field generated by the brain then has an influence on the private free-will or human energy field of another person. This bioelectric field can then influence a pattern of mental thoughts, by generating archetypes that can be preceived by the brain. The archetypes are mind pictures that can become a genetic and temporary language for the brain. The issue of transparent human energy fields is so basic to the discussion of extrasensory perception, that most people are unable to make the connection to understanding telepathy, because of privacy issues related to one's personal thoughts, or body's aura. Microwaves probably cannot communicate with the brain, but if they pass through human tissue(regardless of the so called "EMF Heating Effect"), these radiowaves may affect the mental health of human consciousness and the body. ESP may exist, if people do not become to concerned about religion, and pseudo-science affecting their physical privacy and mental free-will. Commnon sense says there is a mind-body connection associated with a person's overall health, and well being.
"controversially scientific concepts such as psychology and quantum mechanics"
Who exactly is pointing to psychology and quantum mechanics as controversial? Granted they both have their opposition, but all in all, both are quite heartily established in the scientific community, and what scientific field doesn't face opposition? I'd like to see this removed, but it's kind of the main point of the paragraph. B. Mearns *, KSC 03:32, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
If a person would say to all "I know telepathy exists from experience". "The proof you require can be given". "You must follow these simple excersises, religiously for 3 months". "There is no doubt, more will know than not". This is the age of increasing knowledge. If you are not willing to take that step, you should not write any opinions on this subject. These excersises only require half an hour per day. You can increase the time if you want. You can do daily multiples also. These excersises are so beneficial, you may do them as life long routines. This is up to the person that accepts this. Universal law dictates these will never change. You put this in, you get this out. If this seems too simple. I'm sorry. I will tell anyone who asks. Alexargen 18:14, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
I consolidated my comments here, and signed it. I don't mean to be a skeptic. And I don't intend to edit the article. Just trying to give some constructive insigts.
I did not read any plausible mechanism for telepathy, although there is plenty of evidence that telpathy is possible. See the Microwave auditory effect or Frey effect (currently feuding each other). See Electroreception. We measure brain waves with electrodes, albeit in contact with the scalp. I could go on... My point is that telepathy, if it exists, uses Electromagnetism. Q.M. may be used to explain how a Photoreceptor works, but it's absurd (too strong???) to say that the Uncertainty principle explains how the photon got to the eye. Tests for telepathy done in electrically shielded rooms atempts to destroy the only possible telephathic transport, E&M. Telepathy needs QM or String Theory no more than an old fashion Radio does.
Sometimes people make references to science in analogy. After reading the abstract by Gao Shen on entangled minds, I'm confindent in saying that it's not a Q.M. paper. But it mixes in meaningful statements about the math of Q.M. (superpostion of estates, etc.) with meaningless statements such as entangled minds...
Lastly, telepathy is defined rather abstractly. Seems to me in an attempt to avoid saying "hearing voices", as this is mostly seen as a mental illness. I don't have any evidence of people reading eachother's minds in history, but there's plenty of historical individuals hearing voices, including biblical ones.
-- Pereza 19:28, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
"some" studies. "many" studies. Cites needed, people. Otherwise, it just sounds like vague assertions meant to weasle POV away. Coren 06:25, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
You have got to be kidding. You don't have to go far to find:
The POV being, obviously, an implication that telepathy has any sort of scientific support. Weasely "many" (cites?), "including" (vague), "respected universities" (which?) and "some" (which ones, and how many exactly?). Four glaring examples in one statement. Frankly, I'd put weasel, neutrality and disputed facts warnings back on this article, but simply eliminating the multitude of vague assertions meant to imply credibility would fix a lot. Weasel tag goes back in; please don't remove it "just because". Coren 16:53, 18 April 2006 (UTC) ... and no, I don't want to rewrite the article myself to fix the flaws. I have personal views about superstitious woo-woo and pseudoscience that would make it hard to maintain NPOV myself, and unlike many I actually care enough to avoid that. Coren 16:53, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Bah! But this one was so egregious I couldn't help myself. I've been carful, though. Still needs cleanup. Coren 23:26, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
In regards to, well, most of your comments here: Who are you to judge what is truly hocus pocus and what is not? Get off your high horse.
Since telepathy plays a major role in science fiction and fantasy, a section in this article should mention the most significant uses of telepathy in fiction. Kaijan 02:10, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
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Note that there are presently no citations to previously published scientific journals for the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs for "delusions" and "psychosis" under "Origins of the concept". Thus it is likely this is someone's opinion rather than based on sound sources. These 2 paragraphs should be removed if not questioned until their verifiability is confirmed.
Please add http://www.ics.uci.edu/~jutts/UttsStatPsi.pdf as a reference and external link on the telepathy article page, since it is currently not listed. This will provide readers with a more informed view of the topic and past scientific research into telepathy. Nick5990 ( talk) 09:44, 6 July 2014 (UTC)nick5990
You're wrong, Goblin Face, as usual. Eameece ( talk) 03:55, 12 August 2014 (UTC)eameece
Wikipedia loses a lot of credibility because bonifide research into paranormal subjects is not allowed on its pages, or even on its talk pages. To say that refusal to cover this research, or even allow links to it, is NOT about "improving the article," contributes to this lack of credibility. Most people know that telepathy exists, because they have experienced it. People want information on the subject. Now, people wanting more information on this subject are blocked from getting it, just because wikipedia editors want to limit coverage to one point of view, and call any alternative views that are posted to this page "vandalism." Allowing links to research that shows telepathy exists, as well as research that doesn't, would vastly "improve" the article. Right now, coverage is limited to research saying it doesn't. This research is mostly carried out by skeptics, and most of the links on this page are not to researchers, but to skeptical writers. This is a very poor article that hurts wikipedia's reputation, and articles like this and others on related topics cause many people to look upon wikipedia as an unreliable resource on many other topics. Why can't there be a place on wikipedia for knowledge on these topics, and not just one point of view? Eameece ( talk) 19:38, 23 August 2014 (UTC)eameece
I removed this section because it is unsourced original research and taking far too much of the article. If anyone objects please discuss it here and we can talk about if. Goblin Face ( talk) 14:17, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
This edit in my opinion does not reflect the cited sources [1], because none of those sources in the lead mention telepathy being pseudoscience, they say there is no evidence for telepathy and it is non-existent. We already cover parapsychology being a pseudoscience on the article in another section, so there is no need to cover it twice. I have no problem with telepathy being described as pseudoscience but we cannot attribute statements that are not in the cited sources.
The statement "There is no scientific evidence that telepathy is a real phenomenon. Many studies seeking to detect, understand, and utilize telepathy have been carried out, but no replicable results from well-controlled experiments exist." Is more accurate to what the sources say that are in the lead. TreeTrailer ( talk) 18:01, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Because the lead will usually repeat information that is in the body, editors should balance the desire to avoid redundant citations in the lead with the desire to aid readers in locating sources for challengeable material. Leads are usually written at a greater level of generality than the body, and information in the lead section of non-controversial subjects is less likely to be challenged and less likely to require a source; there is not, however, an exception to citation requirements specific to leads. The necessity for citations in a lead should be determined on a case-by-case basis by editorial consensus. Complex, current, or controversial subjects may require many citations; others, few or none. The presence of citations in the introduction is neither required in every article nor prohibited in any article.
Although Jacobo Grinberg is mentioned in wikipedia: there is no mention of this experiment. The experiment is simple - cut and dried. Put 2 people in a room, then separate them into individual chambers where their respective brains are connected to an EEG. Bombard one patient with light pulses and find that the other also senses it according to his EEG readout. The outcome - so I have heard was about 25% positive for patients - way above statistical noise. The experiment has been replicated elsewhere (e.g. "Electroencephalographic evidence of correlated event-related signals between the brains of spatially and sensory isolated human subjects" by Standish et al.). The mechanisms suggested are quantum nonlocality and consciousness. This in itself does not prove TP exists - only that its potential is there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.85.61.113 ( talk) 11:31, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
Sheldrake has published some of the more convincing evidence for telepathy. Is there a reason for it to be left out of this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lindsay658 ( talk • contribs) 08:03, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
Schizophrenia is not always the appropriate explanation for telepathic thoughts and is dismissive of any real communications with the spiritual. Blove2012 ( talk) 22:39, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
The beginning of the article states that there exists "No convincing evidence". Convincing to whom? Clearly some people are convinced of telepathy based on their observations, while others are not convinced. Therefore, the word "Convinced" is far too subjective since it does not specify those convinced. Therefore the word should be changed to something more objective. 2401:7000:DB65:8A00:FD9B:DF21:1E43:10B3 ( talk) 23:16, 18 July 2021 (UTC)