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Some useful sources...
Should somebody add it? 92.78.150.87 ( talk) 13:00, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
my comment when I added the bit about alt pop here...
"if you google alt-pop online it still takes you to the indie pop page, but indie fans have deleted all mention of alt-pop as it includes lots of acts that have more in common with teen pop - therefore the information (last updated by Aoksjd on the 24 May 2021) all the indie fans didn't want has been has been moved here".
User:Aoksjd brought it back to the Indie pop page on that date but it was deleted because it contained some orginal research. however something needs to be said about alt-pop somewhere on here because someone else might do the following:
1) Have a look at the Official Charts website
2) look at the latest news at https://www.officialcharts.com/news/latest-news/ because I like to keep up with what's going on in the charts (as there's more to music than just 80s acts at https://www.classicpopmag.com or old rockers at https://www.uncut.co.uk
3) decide to have a look at the 29 June 2021 One To Watch feature( https://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/one-to-watch-beren-olivia-is-an-alt-pop-superstar-in-the-making__33478/2) which is entitled "Beren Olivia is an alt-pop superstar in the making" with the sub-heading "Fans of Tate McRae and Halsey will love this songwriter on the precipice of stardom".
4) think what is this alt-pop thing that all these websites are going on about
5) think oh yes I'll google it
6) and do you know what happens when you google alt-pop, alt pop or alternative pop? yes that's right the indie pop page at wiki comes highlighted at the top (please see notes below)
7) Think oh yes Wikipedia! The largest and most-read reference work in history, one which is consistently one of the 15 most popular websites as ranked by Alexa.
8) Going to wiki to find the information required and reading the indie pop page
9) realising the information is not there so Wikipedia must be a bit shit and useless and totally overrated...i.e. its not as good as all the reference books you used to get in Waterstones, The County Book Store, Dillions, The Works or Fopp....(mostly books by Colin Larkin published by Guinness or Virgin Books)
10) looking at the Talk:Indie pop page and noticing that a discussion about alt-pop has taken place, but it looks like the indie fans were not happy with all the pop acts appearing. same with alt-pop in regards to Alternative rock, as there is no mention of pop stars like Billie Eilish, Halsey and Tate McRae over there even though this is where searches are taking people.
11) look at the Revision history for Alternative rock: and indie pop, and find something (by User:Aoksjd) that refers to alt-pop
12) As the indie fans are not happy and seeing as all these alt-pop girls seem to be teen pop stars (as in pop stars in the chart who are teenagers/young woman not pop music aimed at teenyboppers, as that kind of traditional teen music is probably more a gay pop/queer pop thing now or stuff like Westlife that you get for your mum at Christmas) cut and paste the info from indie pop revision history and stick it under the teen pop section where it might be extended on, added to and more appreciated by pop fans.
13) add Halsey
examples of alt-pop stars...
A) Billie Eilish born 18 December 2001 (therefore aged 19 years) with 1 UK Number 1s / 7 UK Top 10s / 11 UK Top 40s / 15 UK Top 75s [1] (on wiki they get around the alt pop thing by listing her as a singer/songwriter but songs like "Everything I Wanted" (stylized in all lowercase) is listed as alternative pop, which redirects to Indie pop)
B) Halsey born 29 September 1994 (now aged 26, but had her first USA chart entry as a teenager) with 2 UK Number 1s / 3 UK Top 10s / 11 UK Top 40s / 13 UK Top 75s and listed under a few genres on wiki including alternative pop which redirects to Alternative rock in this case
C) Tate McRae, born July 1, 2003 (age 17) with 1 UK Top 10s / 1 UK Top 40s / 2 UK Top 75s [2] and listed under the alt-pop genre on wiki [3] [4] [5] which redirects to which redirects to Alternative rock in this case
all with a top ten hit - therefore must be popular with record buyers who have heard the record on the radio, saw the track on TV or people online streaming the song. However, none of them appear in the articles about Teen pop, Indie pop, Alternative rock or Lo-fi music (bedroom pop)..which is strange in the case of Billie Eilish (isn't she one of the breakout stars of the last few years?) [6] [7] [8] and Halsey...shouldn't they be mentioned somewhere in one or more of these articles?
If alt-pop is not going to get an article of its own it has to be put somewhere, as so many sites are using it, even though its quite a new term (it seems it was added to the indie pop page on 10 October 2020 by ABigBeast05) its even got an entry at https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alternative%20pop
now if you look at the 'Is Merriam-Webster a credible source?' question you get:
now Wikipedia:Dictionaries as sources states that 'Dictionaries that are secondary for Wikipedia but primary among linguists' but if every other website is using the term and if the dictionary has picked up on its popularity, it must be a trend?
please read the following discussion from the Alternative rock talk page...
and now from the indie pop page...
Notes:
1) even though indie pop on Wikipedia (i.e. Indie pop a Musical genre: Indie pop is a music genre and subculture that combines guitar pop with DIY ethic in opposition to the style and tone of mainstream pop music. It originated from British post-punk in the late 1970s and subsequently generated a thriving fanzine, label, and club and gig circuit) come up highlighted on three searches, two have the top like to a spotify playlist with girl in red (Indie pop/lo-fi/bedroom pop/indie rock/dream pop/alternative on wiki with alt-pop referred to at https://hitsdailydouble.com/the_bside&id=325984&title=girl-in-red-(AWAL), https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/culture/girl-in-red-bedroom-pops-bonafide-breakout-artist-is-back/ and https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop/9560223/girl-in-red-debut-album-interview/) and Chloe Moriondo (Indie pop/indie rock/kbedroom pop on wiki, alt pop at the NME see https://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-radar/chloe-moriondo-pop-punk-hero-interview-2914816 or https://www.nme.com/reviews/album/chloe-moriondo-blood-bunny-review-radar-2934902)
2) however by putting alternative pop into google as well as the indie pop section at wiki, you get the definition from Allmusic: "Alternative Pop/Rock is essentially a catch-all term for post-punk bands from the mid-'80s to the mid-'90s. Though there is a variety of musical styles within Alternative Rock, they are all tied together since they existed outside of the mainstream" with the questions
"Alternative music (or alternative rock) distinguished itself from pop by having distorted melodies, lyrical content that was more edgy or subversive, and generally appealed to a smaller audience of people who thought of themselves as outcasts". [31]
"Alternative pop is aimed towards alternative music listeners who want a different kind of sound than the mainstream". [32]
Billie Eilish is an indie pop phenomenal singer. She has Tourettes Syndrome yet she manages to write and perform her music. She is very original and even tape records sounds to use on her recordings. [33]
References
Why in the world doesn't Madonna have a solid mention in this article? She is referenced at the very bottom only. In her Wikipedia she is a Queen of Pop.
I have noticed there is a lack of detail regarding the features of the genre. Do you think we should add a Characteristics and Background subheading where we could develop it further? Other pages discussing pop genres have a similar section, such as /info/en/?search=Art_pop.
Also, there are some sentences that could be tweaked in the “21st century” section.
There is a photo of Robin Packalen included, but he is not mentioned at all in the article. Could I switch the photo to an artist who is more relevant? On that thought, could we add more modern artists such as Olivia Rodrigo, Taylor Swift, or One Direction?
Lastly, I would like to add a few additional academic references, would that be okay? https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/10304310120086830, https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/music-videos-emc, https://www.oxfordmusiconline.com/grovemusic/display/10.1093/gmo/9781561592630.001.0001/omo-9781561592630-e-1002258376?rskey=XjIsXe&result=1, https://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/100/202/300/ejofsociology/2005/01/vannini_myers.html MillieRoberts03 ( talk) 13:54, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
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Some useful sources...
Should somebody add it? 92.78.150.87 ( talk) 13:00, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
my comment when I added the bit about alt pop here...
"if you google alt-pop online it still takes you to the indie pop page, but indie fans have deleted all mention of alt-pop as it includes lots of acts that have more in common with teen pop - therefore the information (last updated by Aoksjd on the 24 May 2021) all the indie fans didn't want has been has been moved here".
User:Aoksjd brought it back to the Indie pop page on that date but it was deleted because it contained some orginal research. however something needs to be said about alt-pop somewhere on here because someone else might do the following:
1) Have a look at the Official Charts website
2) look at the latest news at https://www.officialcharts.com/news/latest-news/ because I like to keep up with what's going on in the charts (as there's more to music than just 80s acts at https://www.classicpopmag.com or old rockers at https://www.uncut.co.uk
3) decide to have a look at the 29 June 2021 One To Watch feature( https://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/one-to-watch-beren-olivia-is-an-alt-pop-superstar-in-the-making__33478/2) which is entitled "Beren Olivia is an alt-pop superstar in the making" with the sub-heading "Fans of Tate McRae and Halsey will love this songwriter on the precipice of stardom".
4) think what is this alt-pop thing that all these websites are going on about
5) think oh yes I'll google it
6) and do you know what happens when you google alt-pop, alt pop or alternative pop? yes that's right the indie pop page at wiki comes highlighted at the top (please see notes below)
7) Think oh yes Wikipedia! The largest and most-read reference work in history, one which is consistently one of the 15 most popular websites as ranked by Alexa.
8) Going to wiki to find the information required and reading the indie pop page
9) realising the information is not there so Wikipedia must be a bit shit and useless and totally overrated...i.e. its not as good as all the reference books you used to get in Waterstones, The County Book Store, Dillions, The Works or Fopp....(mostly books by Colin Larkin published by Guinness or Virgin Books)
10) looking at the Talk:Indie pop page and noticing that a discussion about alt-pop has taken place, but it looks like the indie fans were not happy with all the pop acts appearing. same with alt-pop in regards to Alternative rock, as there is no mention of pop stars like Billie Eilish, Halsey and Tate McRae over there even though this is where searches are taking people.
11) look at the Revision history for Alternative rock: and indie pop, and find something (by User:Aoksjd) that refers to alt-pop
12) As the indie fans are not happy and seeing as all these alt-pop girls seem to be teen pop stars (as in pop stars in the chart who are teenagers/young woman not pop music aimed at teenyboppers, as that kind of traditional teen music is probably more a gay pop/queer pop thing now or stuff like Westlife that you get for your mum at Christmas) cut and paste the info from indie pop revision history and stick it under the teen pop section where it might be extended on, added to and more appreciated by pop fans.
13) add Halsey
examples of alt-pop stars...
A) Billie Eilish born 18 December 2001 (therefore aged 19 years) with 1 UK Number 1s / 7 UK Top 10s / 11 UK Top 40s / 15 UK Top 75s [1] (on wiki they get around the alt pop thing by listing her as a singer/songwriter but songs like "Everything I Wanted" (stylized in all lowercase) is listed as alternative pop, which redirects to Indie pop)
B) Halsey born 29 September 1994 (now aged 26, but had her first USA chart entry as a teenager) with 2 UK Number 1s / 3 UK Top 10s / 11 UK Top 40s / 13 UK Top 75s and listed under a few genres on wiki including alternative pop which redirects to Alternative rock in this case
C) Tate McRae, born July 1, 2003 (age 17) with 1 UK Top 10s / 1 UK Top 40s / 2 UK Top 75s [2] and listed under the alt-pop genre on wiki [3] [4] [5] which redirects to which redirects to Alternative rock in this case
all with a top ten hit - therefore must be popular with record buyers who have heard the record on the radio, saw the track on TV or people online streaming the song. However, none of them appear in the articles about Teen pop, Indie pop, Alternative rock or Lo-fi music (bedroom pop)..which is strange in the case of Billie Eilish (isn't she one of the breakout stars of the last few years?) [6] [7] [8] and Halsey...shouldn't they be mentioned somewhere in one or more of these articles?
If alt-pop is not going to get an article of its own it has to be put somewhere, as so many sites are using it, even though its quite a new term (it seems it was added to the indie pop page on 10 October 2020 by ABigBeast05) its even got an entry at https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alternative%20pop
now if you look at the 'Is Merriam-Webster a credible source?' question you get:
now Wikipedia:Dictionaries as sources states that 'Dictionaries that are secondary for Wikipedia but primary among linguists' but if every other website is using the term and if the dictionary has picked up on its popularity, it must be a trend?
please read the following discussion from the Alternative rock talk page...
and now from the indie pop page...
Notes:
1) even though indie pop on Wikipedia (i.e. Indie pop a Musical genre: Indie pop is a music genre and subculture that combines guitar pop with DIY ethic in opposition to the style and tone of mainstream pop music. It originated from British post-punk in the late 1970s and subsequently generated a thriving fanzine, label, and club and gig circuit) come up highlighted on three searches, two have the top like to a spotify playlist with girl in red (Indie pop/lo-fi/bedroom pop/indie rock/dream pop/alternative on wiki with alt-pop referred to at https://hitsdailydouble.com/the_bside&id=325984&title=girl-in-red-(AWAL), https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/culture/girl-in-red-bedroom-pops-bonafide-breakout-artist-is-back/ and https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop/9560223/girl-in-red-debut-album-interview/) and Chloe Moriondo (Indie pop/indie rock/kbedroom pop on wiki, alt pop at the NME see https://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-radar/chloe-moriondo-pop-punk-hero-interview-2914816 or https://www.nme.com/reviews/album/chloe-moriondo-blood-bunny-review-radar-2934902)
2) however by putting alternative pop into google as well as the indie pop section at wiki, you get the definition from Allmusic: "Alternative Pop/Rock is essentially a catch-all term for post-punk bands from the mid-'80s to the mid-'90s. Though there is a variety of musical styles within Alternative Rock, they are all tied together since they existed outside of the mainstream" with the questions
"Alternative music (or alternative rock) distinguished itself from pop by having distorted melodies, lyrical content that was more edgy or subversive, and generally appealed to a smaller audience of people who thought of themselves as outcasts". [31]
"Alternative pop is aimed towards alternative music listeners who want a different kind of sound than the mainstream". [32]
Billie Eilish is an indie pop phenomenal singer. She has Tourettes Syndrome yet she manages to write and perform her music. She is very original and even tape records sounds to use on her recordings. [33]
References
Why in the world doesn't Madonna have a solid mention in this article? She is referenced at the very bottom only. In her Wikipedia she is a Queen of Pop.
I have noticed there is a lack of detail regarding the features of the genre. Do you think we should add a Characteristics and Background subheading where we could develop it further? Other pages discussing pop genres have a similar section, such as /info/en/?search=Art_pop.
Also, there are some sentences that could be tweaked in the “21st century” section.
There is a photo of Robin Packalen included, but he is not mentioned at all in the article. Could I switch the photo to an artist who is more relevant? On that thought, could we add more modern artists such as Olivia Rodrigo, Taylor Swift, or One Direction?
Lastly, I would like to add a few additional academic references, would that be okay? https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/10304310120086830, https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/music-videos-emc, https://www.oxfordmusiconline.com/grovemusic/display/10.1093/gmo/9781561592630.001.0001/omo-9781561592630-e-1002258376?rskey=XjIsXe&result=1, https://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/100/202/300/ejofsociology/2005/01/vannini_myers.html MillieRoberts03 ( talk) 13:54, 14 March 2024 (UTC)