![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
This article might want to include the smaller but still existing counter-movement, entitled "The other 95 percent" ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/15/tea-parties-protest-tax-d_n_538747.html). It's not something you would devote a section to but I think it at least deserves a mention. And because I realize the Huffington Post might not be the most reliable source for Tea Party matters I found another link: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/obama-fans-storm-tax-day-tea-party-in-dc-video.php. Here's its website: http://theother95.com/. Guitarist Levin ( talk) 19:19, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
"Commentators promoted Tax Day events on blogs, Twitter, and Facebook, while the Fox News Channel regularly featured televised programming leading into and promoting various protest activities.[13][14][neutrality is disputed] Reaction to the tea parties included counter-protests expressing support for the Obama administration, and dismissive or mocking media coverage of both the events and its promoters.[14][15][16]"
That doesen't seem neutral to me. Media coverage has been mixed (and anyone who watches fox news would understand that they promote them constantly). And while there is a significant amount of dismissive or mocking coverage by those on the left and in some media stories, I wouldn't characterize the media coverage of it as "dismissive" or "mocking" at all.
Is there any way that this could be rewritten without generalizing about the media's reaction and making the Tea Partiers (is that a word?) sound like victims? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.221.252.93 ( talk) 20:16, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
there are Associated Press sources indicating perfectly the attempts at sabotage and misinformation. Furthermore, try wathcing MSNBC, the same way in which Fox unabashedly promotes the Tea Party, so does MSNBC and CNN mock it. Watch Keith Olberman and Sean Hannity, then flip back and forth hearing the two give their opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Napkin65 ( talk • contribs) 20:56, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Just watched cnn for a few hours including a few stories on the tea parties. Didn't see any of this mocking, how much longer do I need to watch? I know msnbc mocked tea parties and especially fox news last year, but now they seem just mostly critical. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Patriot130 ( talk • contribs) 23:05, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
If a group of people would dress up as Muslims then hijack a container ship coming from China, then dump all it's contents into the ocean, then that would be in the spirit of the Boston Tea Party. Because like the East India Company, China dumps, and that cost Americans jobs. I don't see any of that. 98.165.15.98 ( talk) 02:03, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Adding in that Fox News Channel was "promoting" the Tea Party protests is irrelevant. The way that this sentence is written, it makes it seem like the Fox News Channel company--as a whole--is one of the main channels Tea Party protesters use to "spread the word". The sentence shouldn't have Fox in there, unless they add all the other news companies that have political commentators that support the tea parties. Or, they could replace Fox News Channel entirely with something like "popular political commentators". You can even mention their names--but you can't blame an entire company for the views of a few shows! I'm sure MSNBC, CNN, ABC, etc., have political commentators on their news channels or blogs that express their opinions. Does that mean the entire company should be blamed for that one person's opinion? What if they have political commentators from both sides? That creates a paradox, doesn't it? Adding in the source from "PolitiCo" doesn't help either...like in the Wikipedia guide ( WP:NPOV), it listed an example of how one might say "the Beatles are the best band ever". That is an opinion. It would be better to say "In the latest Rolling Stone, it says that the Beatles are the best band ever." So in this case, you could say "News outlets such as MSNBC and PolitiCo say that Fox News Channel is promoting the tea-parties". Think about it! Donatrip ( talk) 03:44, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Here are some examples of FOX News promoting tea parties: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpZ0vaAwTtU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynTLYkvy-Kw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiUO25B1UJU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSPeMK6T0SQ&feature=related At 0:35, FOX admits it themselves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-ZzMW5CqlU&feature=related —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.56.231.193 ( talk) 00:19, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
I am not certain, but this appears to be coatracking [WP:COAT] the irrelevance of the statement that Fox News is "promoting" the tea party movement, making it instead about the lack of mentioning other news agencies. Also, these comments provide no proof of other agencies promoting the tea party. Someone help? Sir Scarfalot ( talk) 02:05, 17 April 2010 (UTC) Sir Scarfalot
So, is it time to remove the POV tag? Or are you indicating that you wish to relocate it? Xenophrenic ( talk) 05:04, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Regardless of what this section is to be named, it violates WP:BLP, WP:NPOV, WP:UNDUE, WP:COAT and would make a nice WP:ATTACK page for the Tea Party protests. I believe we can create a small, summary style section covering that particular protest in D.C. on March, 20, 2010. Lawmakers claimed this, GOP quickly denounce, others question authenticity of claims, more people came out to support the lawmakers, etc. Four maybe five sentences ought to do it. We can add all the cited sources in the appropriate places for the reader. The current version is ridiculously POV. WE CAN DO BETTER by keeping the weight down to mesh with the rest of this [NPOV] article. The vagueness of our wording will take care of the coatracking, and will dissuade other editors from attempting to use this article as an attack page, by example. The ultimate goal should be to improve this article, not to play politics. This article could also benefit from assigning an impartial administrator to watch over the editing and work as a mediator for other editors. MookieG ( talk) 17:18, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
I'd just like to point out that this section accounts for approximately 30% of the text in the article, yet is only describing the actions of 10 or less people of a movement that is tens of thousands strong. Saying this violates WP:UNDUE would be an understatement. I think a good start for cleaning up this section is to remove the commentary from the congressmen--we all know what they allege; we don't need to include every quote they made to the press afterwards.
Ultimately, I would hope this section could resemble its "sister section" in the tea party movement article. There's no need to include every single accusation made of one person allegedly saying or doing something stupid. And incidentally, I don't see anyone adding any information to the SEIU page regarding their members being caught on tape assaulting conservatives at the town halls last summer. CH52584 ( talk) 19:44, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
I removed 1/6th of the section without having to delete any meaningful content. Let's try to keep the commentary to a minimum. CH52584 ( talk) 19:56, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Xeno, are you going to discuss this or continue to simply delete information? Arzel ( talk) 05:56, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
( ←) Xeno, removal of Breitbart and calling it rewording to the sources in your edit summary is highly inappropriate behavior. If your edit summaries are deliberately misleading then this would fall under vandalism. Bring your problems here for discussion. Continued edit warring is NOT the solution. Arzel ( talk) 04:32, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
I reverted an edit by Arzel [1] because it seemed to represent a breakdown in the editor's patience more than a serious attempt to improve Wikipedia. Please revert back and explain if you disagree. -- TS 19:36, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Why is the 9/12 rally listed as a Tea Party protest? The 912 Project is independent of the Tea Party Movement. The Tea Party organizers sponsored and promoted the event, but it seems to be a 912 Project rally (or at least was intended to be such). 24.199.34.245 ( talk) 15:48, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Per WP:SEEALSO, I am not sure why Tea Party Movement is being readded. It is linked in the lead and has its own section. Anyways, -- Tom (talk) 15:05, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
I made 3 changes to this Article and I want to know why they were reverted.
The first was changing Congressman Cleaver's quote in which he uses the word "continuing", which is grammatically wrong,instead of "continued". The source of the quote has no [sic] so it must be assumed that the error is that of the source and not the congressman.
The second was to change Congressman Barney Frank, who is gay, was called a "homo", a "fag" and a "faggot" several times.[133][134][135] to Congressman Barney Frank, who is gay, was allegedly called a homo, fag, faggot.
The reason is that every source cited for the former provides only his allegation and no proof beyond that.
The 3rd change is to replace:
Breitbart had posted two columns on his website alleging the claims were fabricated, and both led with a 48-second YouTube video showing Lewis, Carson, other Congressional Black Caucus members and staffers leaving the Capitol. Breitbart noted as proof that racial slurs were not audible on the video clip. Later interviews have revealed the 48-second video was not of the Congressmen walking to the Capitol, when they say the slurs were used, but instead showed the group leaving the Capitol — at least one hour after the reported incident. When asked about using a video from the wrong moment, Breitbart stood by his claim that the lawmakers were lying. "I'm not saying the video was conclusive proof," he said.[144]
With this:
Breitbart posted a 48-second video on his website showing Lewis, Carson, other Congressional Black Caucus members and staffers leaving the Capitol and walking through a crowd of protestors in which no racial-slurs can be heard. Breitbart noted as proof that racial slurs were not audible on the video clip. The members of the Congressional Black Caucus making the allegations claimed that the 48-second video that Breitbart was referring to was taken when they were leaving the Capitol Building and that the racial slurs were shouted at them when they were entering the Capitol.
Another 2:29 video captured Lewis, Carson and the other Congressional Black Caucus members as they were ascending the stairs to enter the Capitol Building, at the time they claim the racial slurs were directed at them. On that video no racial-slurs can be heard either, only the words “kill the bill”. The video does clearly show Congressman Cleaver get agitated after walking within a couple of inches of a protestor who is yelling through cupped hands and then wiping his face off as if he had been spit on. Whether the congressman was spat on intentionally by the protestor, whether he just got hit with some spit by accident as he walked by the yelling protestor, or whether he was actually spit on at all cannot be conclusively proven by the video.
Because
Providing actual video of the incident being discussed proves exactly what did happen with the TEA PARTY which is what the article is about, instead of just providing whoever wrote that some opportunity to take a cheap shot at Andrew Breitbart. Is this not an encyclopedia? Caesar81 ( talk)Caesar81
You cannot prove the negative, you can only prove the positive. The Team Party groups have denounced these actions, and they also say that they do not represent the movement. Arzel ( talk) 15:07, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Nearly this entire section is based on nothing but unproven and unprosecuted allegation and rumor. [2] The fact that there are allegations should be mentioned, as that is certainly noteworthy, but until we have WP:RS of the actual events, a listing like we have is, in my opinion, WP:UNDUE —Preceding unsigned comment added by SeanNovack ( talk • contribs) 19:52, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
Today I went on a rampage of editing on this page. A good chunk of it involved removing either unreliable citations (no, "WingNutDaily.com" is not considered a reliable source) or citations that did not include information on what they were supposed to be citing. I made a conscious decision not to fix the citation issues, but to remove them. I figured that false or misleading information is worse than no information, and gathering that there is no lack of interest in this page I don't see how others can't fix the problems.
I found that there was also a great deal of words and implications not meeting NPOV standards. I fixed as many as I can such as correcting "nationalizing of health care", a statement that the "March on Washington" was the biggest conservative march ever which used only inflated attendance numbers from right-wing sources, and a sentence implying that the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 has AIG bonus provisions in it which is bogus.
I don't want to get into a political debate about the childish tiffs Republicans and Democrats are having with each other, like others on the surrounding Tea Party pages seem to be engaging in. I am only interested in making Wikipedia the most accurate and neutral encyclopedia ever. Because I was following as many Wikipedia standards as possible, such as WP:MOS, WP:NPOV, WP:CITE and WP:REF, with a dictionary open, I am confident that my edits are accurate. Therefore, please bring your thoughts of reversions to the talk page before you execute. GnarlyLikeWhoa ( talk) 06:55, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
I've made radical changes to this section. It has taken on different headings so I'm just calling it controversy. I've kept instances during Tea Party protests. I've removed what was flimsy, unnecessary and not-notable, in my opinion. I moved the parts that better belong in the Tea Party movement. I have read this talk page and that of the movement. The conversations were more about personal and partisan debating than what actually helps these articles. Grievances?.. Please post below. †TE† Talk 19:24, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Tea Party Protests: 'Ni**er,' 'Fa**ot' Shouted At Members Of Congress http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/20/tea-party-protests-nier-f_n_507116.html
Congressman Spit On By Tea Party Protester (VIDEO) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/28/congressman-spit-on-by-te_n_516300.html
Rand Paul Supporter Stomps On MoveOn Member's Head (VIDEO) (UPDATED) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/25/rand-paul-supporter-stomps-head_n_773857.html
Black GOP Official Resigns Citing Arizona Tea Party Threats http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/12/anthony-miller-resigns-giffords-threats_n_808116.html
New Mexican Tea Partiers Bring Guns To Anti-Obama Rally http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/new_mexican_tea_partiers_bring_guns_to_anti-obama.php — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.169.66.28 ( talk) 00:45, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
This section is slanted towards one point of view. I see no logical reason for the Breitbart response to be removed from the section, with the primary logic against being a strange negative fallacy argument. The current removal of balance to the section continues to be removed under the guise "routine per talk". I would like to see that presented here for clarrification. Arzel ( talk) 15:13, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
With regards your persistent stupefaction, I think you'd manage a firmer grasp of the sequence of events if you didn't take certain words of Carson's at the expense of others. Carson heard slurs after he left Cannon. He also described thusly on March 20th, minutes after the voyage:
When is your quote from?.. April 13th. I respect Carson's right to change his story, but it usually comes at the expense of credibility. Him being a cop, knows that the first version is the police report. The second would be on the witness stand (minus the oath), where a defense lawyer would pounce raise suspicion of the validity of his ever changing recollection. I'm glad to see that you finally concede that Cleaver did not walk with Carson, Lewis and his aide to the Capitol Building. I am also glad to see you also concede that Cleaver was indeed only with Lewis as the many of the CBC returned to the Cannon building, when Cleaver was spat upon (on the steps of Cannon). I am well aware that Cleaver said he distinctly heard "nigger," it's too bad he wasn't there when then slurs were reported by shoddy journalists. As for the level of detail in the reports, AP ran a correction from Cleaver's bogus statement that Capitol police arrested the sprayer. In it, they clarified that "Cleaver, who is black, was also one of several lawmakers who faced racial epithets as they walked to the Capitol to vote. Sgt. Kimberly Schneider of the U.S. Capitol Police said in an e-mail later: "We did not make any arrests today." Well, at least we know that they (falsely) put Cleaver with Lewis during a trek to the Capitol building. If only they knew that the faux arrest was just one of many inaccuracies in Cleaver's official statement:
I mean, wow! That is one whopper for the record books. I actually feel bad for the media in taking Cleaver's word at face value. I also understand that they have a job to scrutinize his words, and failed miserably. So, I was just thinking about how bored I am of this complete waste of time. I consider this closed. I suppose you might want to deny your concessions or the fact that your story has evolved greatly in the past day, week, and month. That is just fine by me. Cheers. †TE† Talk 21:38, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Previous discussion on this page being tl;dr for me, is anyone opposed to removing the {{ coat rack}} and {{ POV-check}} templates from the article? ...comments? ~ B F izz 22:41, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
The section labeled "Reports of abusive behavior by Tea Party protesters" has been given the POV sign. Not because the abusive behavior is 100% false, but because the section has mediocre prose that brings up several trivial or emotional examples rather than saying anything actually notable or of value. Being called "the N-word", “Schlomo Weiner", or "faggot" is not a shocking event. Most of today's movies depict much worse. Can someone familiar with the situation and press around this please cut the fluff? ...comments? ~ B F izz 23:20, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
He's mentioned prominently in the article, but it's not clear when he became chairman of the NY chapter. The best I could do in a 15-minute web search: http://www.yaliberty.org/posts/trevor-leach-appointed-yal-new-york-state-chairman -- not WP:RS. Anybody have a reference? Can we add a start date and "as of July 2011"? -- Jo3sampl ( talk) 20:07, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm confused, is this article page supposed to explain Tea Party Protests or the 2009 Tea Party Protests? It seems rather lopsided if it's supposed to explain Tea Party Protests as a whole. I read a comment on this talk page that said, "This article, on the other hand, is about the protests that started in 2009," by Xenophrenic under the heading "Presidential campaign in 2007, not the protests of 2009." I would argue that this page should be combined with the "List of Tea Party protests, 2009" page that already exists if that's the case, or at the very least the title should be changed.
On the other hand if this is about Tea Party Protests as a whole why aren't there any references to the 2007 Tea Party protests? There are plenty of sources out there, including in The Tea Party Movement wiki. I can also provide sources if needed.-- 76.20.32.102 ( talk) 05:20, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
See for yourself [3]-- 24.171.6.27 ( talk) 16:08, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
Remember, it was Ron Paul supporters who kick-started the tea party into life on Dec. 16, 2007, when they dumped a $6 million "money bomb" into his presidential campaign on the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party. Not that all or even most tea partiers are Paulians when the rubber meets the road.
Maybe you remember about 16 months ago the 11-term Texas Republican representative, who's now organized a new Campaign for Liberty, was raking in more political contributions each month than most other GOP presidential candidates, relying on his hundreds of thousands of fervent supporters staging their money bomb days of online donations and -- oh, yes – tea parties.
Paul's liberty campaign today sought to remind folks of its role in the re-genesis of tea parties in 2007.
Paul, a native of Pittsburgh, is both a spiritual father and actual father in the tea party movement.
The Tea Party, which drove the GOP to claim a majority of the House in the mid-term elections, grew largely out of the ashes of his 2008 presidential campaign, which emphasized limited government and a return to constitutional principles.
Four years ago, Ron Paul’s libertarian views became divining rods for the brand of strident antigovernment activism that grew into the Tea Party movement. “Now that there’s a shift in attitude, a country that’s getting in worse shape by the day, all of a sudden the message becomes very appropriate,’’ the 75-year-old obstetrician and 12-term representative said in an interview.
Excerpt from current wiki:
"The theme of the Boston Tea Party, an iconic event of American history, has long been used by anti-tax protesters with libertarian and conservative viewpoints. It was part of Tax Day protests held throughout the 1990s and earlier. The libertarian theme of the "tea party" protest has also been used by Republican Congressman Ron Paul and his supporters during fundraising events in the primaries of the 2008 presidential campaign to emphasize Paul's fiscal conservatism, which they later claimed laid the groundwork for the modern-day Tea Party movement, although many of them also claim their movement has been hijacked by neoconservatives."
Sorry I'm no expert on this topic but I did look at some of the old sources. I think it's clear that Ron Paul is "more recently" (as our articles say now) a godfather of the movement, and also clear that others preceded him ( for example in 1991). Hope that helps. - SusanLesch ( talk) 20:19, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
I clicked the "edit" button and was immediately confused. It is filled with so many random codes and brackets, that's it's impossible to understand what I'm looking at. Worse than looking at C code. Isn't there some way we can clean-up the article so it looks like a readable document in the Wiki-editor, instead of confusing gibberish? Thanks. ---- Theaveng ( talk) 04:13, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Since 13 Nov., the Tea Party Protests article has included:
I think that "excessive" has to be modified or attributed. -- Jo3sampl ( talk) 01:58, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
This article might want to include the smaller but still existing counter-movement, entitled "The other 95 percent" ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/15/tea-parties-protest-tax-d_n_538747.html). It's not something you would devote a section to but I think it at least deserves a mention. And because I realize the Huffington Post might not be the most reliable source for Tea Party matters I found another link: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/obama-fans-storm-tax-day-tea-party-in-dc-video.php. Here's its website: http://theother95.com/. Guitarist Levin ( talk) 19:19, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
"Commentators promoted Tax Day events on blogs, Twitter, and Facebook, while the Fox News Channel regularly featured televised programming leading into and promoting various protest activities.[13][14][neutrality is disputed] Reaction to the tea parties included counter-protests expressing support for the Obama administration, and dismissive or mocking media coverage of both the events and its promoters.[14][15][16]"
That doesen't seem neutral to me. Media coverage has been mixed (and anyone who watches fox news would understand that they promote them constantly). And while there is a significant amount of dismissive or mocking coverage by those on the left and in some media stories, I wouldn't characterize the media coverage of it as "dismissive" or "mocking" at all.
Is there any way that this could be rewritten without generalizing about the media's reaction and making the Tea Partiers (is that a word?) sound like victims? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.221.252.93 ( talk) 20:16, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
there are Associated Press sources indicating perfectly the attempts at sabotage and misinformation. Furthermore, try wathcing MSNBC, the same way in which Fox unabashedly promotes the Tea Party, so does MSNBC and CNN mock it. Watch Keith Olberman and Sean Hannity, then flip back and forth hearing the two give their opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Napkin65 ( talk • contribs) 20:56, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Just watched cnn for a few hours including a few stories on the tea parties. Didn't see any of this mocking, how much longer do I need to watch? I know msnbc mocked tea parties and especially fox news last year, but now they seem just mostly critical. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Patriot130 ( talk • contribs) 23:05, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
If a group of people would dress up as Muslims then hijack a container ship coming from China, then dump all it's contents into the ocean, then that would be in the spirit of the Boston Tea Party. Because like the East India Company, China dumps, and that cost Americans jobs. I don't see any of that. 98.165.15.98 ( talk) 02:03, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Adding in that Fox News Channel was "promoting" the Tea Party protests is irrelevant. The way that this sentence is written, it makes it seem like the Fox News Channel company--as a whole--is one of the main channels Tea Party protesters use to "spread the word". The sentence shouldn't have Fox in there, unless they add all the other news companies that have political commentators that support the tea parties. Or, they could replace Fox News Channel entirely with something like "popular political commentators". You can even mention their names--but you can't blame an entire company for the views of a few shows! I'm sure MSNBC, CNN, ABC, etc., have political commentators on their news channels or blogs that express their opinions. Does that mean the entire company should be blamed for that one person's opinion? What if they have political commentators from both sides? That creates a paradox, doesn't it? Adding in the source from "PolitiCo" doesn't help either...like in the Wikipedia guide ( WP:NPOV), it listed an example of how one might say "the Beatles are the best band ever". That is an opinion. It would be better to say "In the latest Rolling Stone, it says that the Beatles are the best band ever." So in this case, you could say "News outlets such as MSNBC and PolitiCo say that Fox News Channel is promoting the tea-parties". Think about it! Donatrip ( talk) 03:44, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Here are some examples of FOX News promoting tea parties: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpZ0vaAwTtU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynTLYkvy-Kw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiUO25B1UJU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSPeMK6T0SQ&feature=related At 0:35, FOX admits it themselves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-ZzMW5CqlU&feature=related —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.56.231.193 ( talk) 00:19, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
I am not certain, but this appears to be coatracking [WP:COAT] the irrelevance of the statement that Fox News is "promoting" the tea party movement, making it instead about the lack of mentioning other news agencies. Also, these comments provide no proof of other agencies promoting the tea party. Someone help? Sir Scarfalot ( talk) 02:05, 17 April 2010 (UTC) Sir Scarfalot
So, is it time to remove the POV tag? Or are you indicating that you wish to relocate it? Xenophrenic ( talk) 05:04, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Regardless of what this section is to be named, it violates WP:BLP, WP:NPOV, WP:UNDUE, WP:COAT and would make a nice WP:ATTACK page for the Tea Party protests. I believe we can create a small, summary style section covering that particular protest in D.C. on March, 20, 2010. Lawmakers claimed this, GOP quickly denounce, others question authenticity of claims, more people came out to support the lawmakers, etc. Four maybe five sentences ought to do it. We can add all the cited sources in the appropriate places for the reader. The current version is ridiculously POV. WE CAN DO BETTER by keeping the weight down to mesh with the rest of this [NPOV] article. The vagueness of our wording will take care of the coatracking, and will dissuade other editors from attempting to use this article as an attack page, by example. The ultimate goal should be to improve this article, not to play politics. This article could also benefit from assigning an impartial administrator to watch over the editing and work as a mediator for other editors. MookieG ( talk) 17:18, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
I'd just like to point out that this section accounts for approximately 30% of the text in the article, yet is only describing the actions of 10 or less people of a movement that is tens of thousands strong. Saying this violates WP:UNDUE would be an understatement. I think a good start for cleaning up this section is to remove the commentary from the congressmen--we all know what they allege; we don't need to include every quote they made to the press afterwards.
Ultimately, I would hope this section could resemble its "sister section" in the tea party movement article. There's no need to include every single accusation made of one person allegedly saying or doing something stupid. And incidentally, I don't see anyone adding any information to the SEIU page regarding their members being caught on tape assaulting conservatives at the town halls last summer. CH52584 ( talk) 19:44, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
I removed 1/6th of the section without having to delete any meaningful content. Let's try to keep the commentary to a minimum. CH52584 ( talk) 19:56, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Xeno, are you going to discuss this or continue to simply delete information? Arzel ( talk) 05:56, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
( ←) Xeno, removal of Breitbart and calling it rewording to the sources in your edit summary is highly inappropriate behavior. If your edit summaries are deliberately misleading then this would fall under vandalism. Bring your problems here for discussion. Continued edit warring is NOT the solution. Arzel ( talk) 04:32, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
I reverted an edit by Arzel [1] because it seemed to represent a breakdown in the editor's patience more than a serious attempt to improve Wikipedia. Please revert back and explain if you disagree. -- TS 19:36, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Why is the 9/12 rally listed as a Tea Party protest? The 912 Project is independent of the Tea Party Movement. The Tea Party organizers sponsored and promoted the event, but it seems to be a 912 Project rally (or at least was intended to be such). 24.199.34.245 ( talk) 15:48, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Per WP:SEEALSO, I am not sure why Tea Party Movement is being readded. It is linked in the lead and has its own section. Anyways, -- Tom (talk) 15:05, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
I made 3 changes to this Article and I want to know why they were reverted.
The first was changing Congressman Cleaver's quote in which he uses the word "continuing", which is grammatically wrong,instead of "continued". The source of the quote has no [sic] so it must be assumed that the error is that of the source and not the congressman.
The second was to change Congressman Barney Frank, who is gay, was called a "homo", a "fag" and a "faggot" several times.[133][134][135] to Congressman Barney Frank, who is gay, was allegedly called a homo, fag, faggot.
The reason is that every source cited for the former provides only his allegation and no proof beyond that.
The 3rd change is to replace:
Breitbart had posted two columns on his website alleging the claims were fabricated, and both led with a 48-second YouTube video showing Lewis, Carson, other Congressional Black Caucus members and staffers leaving the Capitol. Breitbart noted as proof that racial slurs were not audible on the video clip. Later interviews have revealed the 48-second video was not of the Congressmen walking to the Capitol, when they say the slurs were used, but instead showed the group leaving the Capitol — at least one hour after the reported incident. When asked about using a video from the wrong moment, Breitbart stood by his claim that the lawmakers were lying. "I'm not saying the video was conclusive proof," he said.[144]
With this:
Breitbart posted a 48-second video on his website showing Lewis, Carson, other Congressional Black Caucus members and staffers leaving the Capitol and walking through a crowd of protestors in which no racial-slurs can be heard. Breitbart noted as proof that racial slurs were not audible on the video clip. The members of the Congressional Black Caucus making the allegations claimed that the 48-second video that Breitbart was referring to was taken when they were leaving the Capitol Building and that the racial slurs were shouted at them when they were entering the Capitol.
Another 2:29 video captured Lewis, Carson and the other Congressional Black Caucus members as they were ascending the stairs to enter the Capitol Building, at the time they claim the racial slurs were directed at them. On that video no racial-slurs can be heard either, only the words “kill the bill”. The video does clearly show Congressman Cleaver get agitated after walking within a couple of inches of a protestor who is yelling through cupped hands and then wiping his face off as if he had been spit on. Whether the congressman was spat on intentionally by the protestor, whether he just got hit with some spit by accident as he walked by the yelling protestor, or whether he was actually spit on at all cannot be conclusively proven by the video.
Because
Providing actual video of the incident being discussed proves exactly what did happen with the TEA PARTY which is what the article is about, instead of just providing whoever wrote that some opportunity to take a cheap shot at Andrew Breitbart. Is this not an encyclopedia? Caesar81 ( talk)Caesar81
You cannot prove the negative, you can only prove the positive. The Team Party groups have denounced these actions, and they also say that they do not represent the movement. Arzel ( talk) 15:07, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Nearly this entire section is based on nothing but unproven and unprosecuted allegation and rumor. [2] The fact that there are allegations should be mentioned, as that is certainly noteworthy, but until we have WP:RS of the actual events, a listing like we have is, in my opinion, WP:UNDUE —Preceding unsigned comment added by SeanNovack ( talk • contribs) 19:52, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
Today I went on a rampage of editing on this page. A good chunk of it involved removing either unreliable citations (no, "WingNutDaily.com" is not considered a reliable source) or citations that did not include information on what they were supposed to be citing. I made a conscious decision not to fix the citation issues, but to remove them. I figured that false or misleading information is worse than no information, and gathering that there is no lack of interest in this page I don't see how others can't fix the problems.
I found that there was also a great deal of words and implications not meeting NPOV standards. I fixed as many as I can such as correcting "nationalizing of health care", a statement that the "March on Washington" was the biggest conservative march ever which used only inflated attendance numbers from right-wing sources, and a sentence implying that the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 has AIG bonus provisions in it which is bogus.
I don't want to get into a political debate about the childish tiffs Republicans and Democrats are having with each other, like others on the surrounding Tea Party pages seem to be engaging in. I am only interested in making Wikipedia the most accurate and neutral encyclopedia ever. Because I was following as many Wikipedia standards as possible, such as WP:MOS, WP:NPOV, WP:CITE and WP:REF, with a dictionary open, I am confident that my edits are accurate. Therefore, please bring your thoughts of reversions to the talk page before you execute. GnarlyLikeWhoa ( talk) 06:55, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
I've made radical changes to this section. It has taken on different headings so I'm just calling it controversy. I've kept instances during Tea Party protests. I've removed what was flimsy, unnecessary and not-notable, in my opinion. I moved the parts that better belong in the Tea Party movement. I have read this talk page and that of the movement. The conversations were more about personal and partisan debating than what actually helps these articles. Grievances?.. Please post below. †TE† Talk 19:24, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Tea Party Protests: 'Ni**er,' 'Fa**ot' Shouted At Members Of Congress http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/20/tea-party-protests-nier-f_n_507116.html
Congressman Spit On By Tea Party Protester (VIDEO) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/28/congressman-spit-on-by-te_n_516300.html
Rand Paul Supporter Stomps On MoveOn Member's Head (VIDEO) (UPDATED) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/25/rand-paul-supporter-stomps-head_n_773857.html
Black GOP Official Resigns Citing Arizona Tea Party Threats http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/12/anthony-miller-resigns-giffords-threats_n_808116.html
New Mexican Tea Partiers Bring Guns To Anti-Obama Rally http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/new_mexican_tea_partiers_bring_guns_to_anti-obama.php — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.169.66.28 ( talk) 00:45, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
This section is slanted towards one point of view. I see no logical reason for the Breitbart response to be removed from the section, with the primary logic against being a strange negative fallacy argument. The current removal of balance to the section continues to be removed under the guise "routine per talk". I would like to see that presented here for clarrification. Arzel ( talk) 15:13, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
With regards your persistent stupefaction, I think you'd manage a firmer grasp of the sequence of events if you didn't take certain words of Carson's at the expense of others. Carson heard slurs after he left Cannon. He also described thusly on March 20th, minutes after the voyage:
When is your quote from?.. April 13th. I respect Carson's right to change his story, but it usually comes at the expense of credibility. Him being a cop, knows that the first version is the police report. The second would be on the witness stand (minus the oath), where a defense lawyer would pounce raise suspicion of the validity of his ever changing recollection. I'm glad to see that you finally concede that Cleaver did not walk with Carson, Lewis and his aide to the Capitol Building. I am also glad to see you also concede that Cleaver was indeed only with Lewis as the many of the CBC returned to the Cannon building, when Cleaver was spat upon (on the steps of Cannon). I am well aware that Cleaver said he distinctly heard "nigger," it's too bad he wasn't there when then slurs were reported by shoddy journalists. As for the level of detail in the reports, AP ran a correction from Cleaver's bogus statement that Capitol police arrested the sprayer. In it, they clarified that "Cleaver, who is black, was also one of several lawmakers who faced racial epithets as they walked to the Capitol to vote. Sgt. Kimberly Schneider of the U.S. Capitol Police said in an e-mail later: "We did not make any arrests today." Well, at least we know that they (falsely) put Cleaver with Lewis during a trek to the Capitol building. If only they knew that the faux arrest was just one of many inaccuracies in Cleaver's official statement:
I mean, wow! That is one whopper for the record books. I actually feel bad for the media in taking Cleaver's word at face value. I also understand that they have a job to scrutinize his words, and failed miserably. So, I was just thinking about how bored I am of this complete waste of time. I consider this closed. I suppose you might want to deny your concessions or the fact that your story has evolved greatly in the past day, week, and month. That is just fine by me. Cheers. †TE† Talk 21:38, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Previous discussion on this page being tl;dr for me, is anyone opposed to removing the {{ coat rack}} and {{ POV-check}} templates from the article? ...comments? ~ B F izz 22:41, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
The section labeled "Reports of abusive behavior by Tea Party protesters" has been given the POV sign. Not because the abusive behavior is 100% false, but because the section has mediocre prose that brings up several trivial or emotional examples rather than saying anything actually notable or of value. Being called "the N-word", “Schlomo Weiner", or "faggot" is not a shocking event. Most of today's movies depict much worse. Can someone familiar with the situation and press around this please cut the fluff? ...comments? ~ B F izz 23:20, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
He's mentioned prominently in the article, but it's not clear when he became chairman of the NY chapter. The best I could do in a 15-minute web search: http://www.yaliberty.org/posts/trevor-leach-appointed-yal-new-york-state-chairman -- not WP:RS. Anybody have a reference? Can we add a start date and "as of July 2011"? -- Jo3sampl ( talk) 20:07, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm confused, is this article page supposed to explain Tea Party Protests or the 2009 Tea Party Protests? It seems rather lopsided if it's supposed to explain Tea Party Protests as a whole. I read a comment on this talk page that said, "This article, on the other hand, is about the protests that started in 2009," by Xenophrenic under the heading "Presidential campaign in 2007, not the protests of 2009." I would argue that this page should be combined with the "List of Tea Party protests, 2009" page that already exists if that's the case, or at the very least the title should be changed.
On the other hand if this is about Tea Party Protests as a whole why aren't there any references to the 2007 Tea Party protests? There are plenty of sources out there, including in The Tea Party Movement wiki. I can also provide sources if needed.-- 76.20.32.102 ( talk) 05:20, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
See for yourself [3]-- 24.171.6.27 ( talk) 16:08, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
Remember, it was Ron Paul supporters who kick-started the tea party into life on Dec. 16, 2007, when they dumped a $6 million "money bomb" into his presidential campaign on the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party. Not that all or even most tea partiers are Paulians when the rubber meets the road.
Maybe you remember about 16 months ago the 11-term Texas Republican representative, who's now organized a new Campaign for Liberty, was raking in more political contributions each month than most other GOP presidential candidates, relying on his hundreds of thousands of fervent supporters staging their money bomb days of online donations and -- oh, yes – tea parties.
Paul's liberty campaign today sought to remind folks of its role in the re-genesis of tea parties in 2007.
Paul, a native of Pittsburgh, is both a spiritual father and actual father in the tea party movement.
The Tea Party, which drove the GOP to claim a majority of the House in the mid-term elections, grew largely out of the ashes of his 2008 presidential campaign, which emphasized limited government and a return to constitutional principles.
Four years ago, Ron Paul’s libertarian views became divining rods for the brand of strident antigovernment activism that grew into the Tea Party movement. “Now that there’s a shift in attitude, a country that’s getting in worse shape by the day, all of a sudden the message becomes very appropriate,’’ the 75-year-old obstetrician and 12-term representative said in an interview.
Excerpt from current wiki:
"The theme of the Boston Tea Party, an iconic event of American history, has long been used by anti-tax protesters with libertarian and conservative viewpoints. It was part of Tax Day protests held throughout the 1990s and earlier. The libertarian theme of the "tea party" protest has also been used by Republican Congressman Ron Paul and his supporters during fundraising events in the primaries of the 2008 presidential campaign to emphasize Paul's fiscal conservatism, which they later claimed laid the groundwork for the modern-day Tea Party movement, although many of them also claim their movement has been hijacked by neoconservatives."
Sorry I'm no expert on this topic but I did look at some of the old sources. I think it's clear that Ron Paul is "more recently" (as our articles say now) a godfather of the movement, and also clear that others preceded him ( for example in 1991). Hope that helps. - SusanLesch ( talk) 20:19, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
I clicked the "edit" button and was immediately confused. It is filled with so many random codes and brackets, that's it's impossible to understand what I'm looking at. Worse than looking at C code. Isn't there some way we can clean-up the article so it looks like a readable document in the Wiki-editor, instead of confusing gibberish? Thanks. ---- Theaveng ( talk) 04:13, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Since 13 Nov., the Tea Party Protests article has included:
I think that "excessive" has to be modified or attributed. -- Jo3sampl ( talk) 01:58, 24 January 2012 (UTC)