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the "plot" section of the article doesn't actually say anything about the story shouldn't some one make a new section for the part thats there already, like "story development" or something and find out about the plot they are using now and add there there instead 82.22.207.236 ( talk) 17:00, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
Rationale for use on AfD subpage is:
Thanks. 81.104.165.184 18:15, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
What specualtion? Everything is based in information. You didn't even try to do a single search to see if at least something was correct? That's lazy. I assume some links are already mentioned in the article, so I might repeat something; http://mag.awn.com/index.php?ltype=pageone&article_no=2684&page=6 "So with Rapunzel Keane is trying to bring drawing into CG by applying basic design principles. He admits that it’s a big leap forward for both character performance and environment. For inspiration, Keane and his animators are referencing a painting by French Rococo artist Jean-Honore Fragonard, The Swing, applying a certain richness that they have never attained in animation before." "Kyle Strawitz really helped me start to believe that the things I wanted to see were possible… that you could move in a Disney painterly world. He took the house from Snow White and built it and painted it so that it looked like a flat painting that suddenly started to move, and it had dimension and kept all of the soft, round curves of the brushstrokes of watercolor. Kyle helped us get that Fragonard look of that girl on the swing… We are using subsurface scattering and global illumination and all of the latest techniques to pull off convincing human characters and rich environments." http://www.spoiler3.blogger.com.br/DISNEY%20UPCOMING%208.jpg
http://mag.awn.com/index.php?ltype=pageone&article_no=2684&page=5 "Paul is at the forefront of [helping bring this into the computer], because he knows what makes a painting a painting; it’s not just how a brush stroke looks because we’ve gone way beyond that since Tarzan. It has to do with how light and paint interact with each other… that luminosity, the layering, which makes a huge difference."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/10/23/financial1010EDT0052.DTL In an early version, Mr. Keane noticed that his famous mermaid didn't seem like herself. "There was a deadness in her eyes, a dull quality," he says. The shoulders seemed stiff. She also wasn't hitting what old-time Disney artists call "the golden poses," the few memorable images that sell each character to the audience. Fixing the piece required combining the experienced eye of a traditional animator with the computer chops of someone from the new school. Mr. Keane drew by hand what he wanted and superimposed it over the computer-animated image. At one point, his team worked for nearly a week trying to light up Ariel's smile by pushing her cheeks up and creating little creases around her eyes. "The Ariel project was a testing ground for forcing a CG figure into a hand-drawn look," Mr. Keane says. "We made the computer bend its knee to the artist, rather than the artist bend its knee to the computer." "He put together a presentation called "The Best of Both Worlds," which listed the strengths and weaknesses of each genre, and called a meeting to discuss it. "Immediately, you could feel the polarization of the two groups," Mr. Keane says." "To clear the air, Mr. Keane convened a retreat of about 25 artists at the Huntington Library in San Marino, Calif. The discussion focused on redesigning Disney's production process to enhance collaboration. Disney had already been tweaking standard computer-animation software to make it more intuitive for newcomers. At the retreat, the artists got a look at an even simpler tool the company has been developing, which would allow artists to control the movements of their computer characters by drawing on a screen with a pencil-like stylus, rather than using a mouse." "Mr. Keane and other artists often didn't like what they saw on screen in computer animation. While they admired the storytelling and characters in the computer-generated movies made by Pixar and others, many of them saw the art itself as crude, especially in its attempts to capture the complexity of a human form. "If you look at Fiona in `Shrek,"' Mr. Keane says, "her shoulders never seem to move." He decided that embracing computer animation would mean "I would have to go backwards from what I do by hand."
http://cinematech.blogspot.com/2005/09/disney-moves-away-from-hand-drawn.html "I loved 'Shrek,' " Mr. Keane responded. But the characters, particularly Princess Fiona, looked plastic to him. "Every frame of that film was a bad drawing to me, personally," he said.
http://www.cinemareview.com/production.asp?prodid=3178 A great example of adapting “squash and stretch” for CG animation is the big baseball game in “Chicken Little.” "CG Supervisors Kevin Geiger and Kyle Odermatt and their team came up with these tools to bring more elasticity to the facial performance, and help animators approximate the range they would normally have with traditional animation. “Chicken Wire” is a collection of wire deformers that add extra functionality. These tools specifically address the common complaint that computer animation is too puppet-like or mannequin-ish." "And finally, for those animators who come from a drawing background, new electronic tablet screens allow them to rough out their characters’ movements using digital sketches. Similar to drawn thumbnails, the computer keeps track of each successive electronic drawing and allows the animator to block out their performance in 2D in minutes. Goldberg concludes, “‘Chicken Little’ has laid a foundation for making CG features that all future Disney films will benefit from. We have the ability to create anything the story guys can come up with. We can create it and art-direct it in a way that I don’t think any other studio can realize. The Studio brings over 80 years of animation experience to the medium, and our goal is to carry that wonderful legacy forward in the new digital frontier. We are not driven by technology, but control the technology to make it do what we want it to do."
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/19/business/disney.php Keane, a 31-year veteran who created the beast from "Beauty and the Beast" and Ariel from "The Little Mermaid," was a Disney traditionalist. But after a series of experiments to see whether he could create a computer-animated ballerina, his opposition softened. So he invited the 50 animators to discuss the pros and cons of both art forms, calling his seminar "The Best of Both Worlds." For an hour, Keane listed the pluses and minuses of each technique while the other animators listened quietly.
http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=20944
http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/articles/printer_friendly.php?ID=1589 "I found my inspiration for the look of this film in a painting called 'The Swing,'" Keane continued. "It was painted by a French Rocco artist named Jean-Honore Fragonard. Just look at how rich this imagery is. It's like there's butter between the brush strokes." Glen challenged "Rapunzel" art director Lisa Keane to come up with a look that was at least as rich as the world suggested in Fragonard's painting. And wonder of wonders, Lisa was actually able to pull that off in a CG format. With these big steps forward, Glen was now able to start moving "Rapunzel Unbraided" in the direction that he wanted. Which was a Disney CG feature that -- while it still had all the strengths & virtues that a traditionally animated film had -- still looked and felt like nothing that Disney Feature Animation had ever done before."
http://www.ualberta.ca/~ntam/2005_11_01_archive.html The visual concept behind Rapunzel Unbraided - an oil painting that moves in 3D space - is one of the most exciting developments I've heard of about the future of the now rather unexciting movie business, which has with few exceptions become aesthetically stagnant now that the wonders of technology are peaking.
Another comment on a board; " And I’ve heard Disney has created such software for Keane’s Rapunzel Unbraided. Drawing forcelines and silhouettes on a tablet pc in the animation table. I believe it was shown at Siggraph last year… Who knows, maybe they’ll show it again this year? If so, I hope to hear about it, cause that seems to be the most awesome way to animate ever. Keeping the 2D feeling but having more depth as a result."
I remeber even some more links about comments on how this movie is going to be made and how those who saw the test at SIGGRAPT really thought it was like a painting coming to life, but this is probably enough for now. The last link is just referring to an opinion, but it is very well said. If you don't like how the article is written, why din't you write it with your own words instead?
-- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.216.91.183 ( talk • contribs)
Let's not excise large portions of the content until the AfD is done. Besides, it's obvious this information came from somewhere, we just need to find out where. Powers 11:16, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
OK, I have now posted a link that are relevent for the "citation needed" parts (which I have removed). The link http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi? , does not work anymore, so I have linked to a discussion board where the whole article is copied instead. In my opinion, it doesn't belong here becasue it is about Disney animation in generel, not about Rapunzel Unbraided exclusively. But since some seems to be so difficult that they thinks the whole thing should be deleted if there isn't any links where the information can be verified, it belongs there at least for the moment as all the information that is needed can be found in it and the references. 193.217.133.119 09:49, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
To reiterate the POV issues:
To suggest it's unique is a value judgement, which NPOV does not allow us to make. Of course, if there are enough (i.e. considerably more than just one) sources around which suggest it's unique, then we can say that provided it's attributed (i.e. we state that others think it is unique).
Again, what constitutes "coming to life" is a value judgement. If enough people in the real world make the suggestion, then we can include it, properly attributed.
That's an opinion, but whose is it? It's certainly not Wikipedia's opinion, since that needs to be neutral.
Again, legendary in whose opinion?
Ugh. Sales talk.
I'm also concerned about the "concept art", which has been tagged with {{ promotional}}, yet without a definitive source at Disney to suggest that they are. 81.104.165.184 11:07, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
What do you think all the fuzz in the animation industry is about? It is because what they are trying to do has never been done before.
It is not the "coming to life" part that is the main subject here, but what a single frame from the movie looks like. ("He took the house from Snow White and built it and painted it so that it looked like a flat painting that suddenly started to move, and it had dimension and kept all of the soft, round curves of the brushstrokes of watercolor. http://www.spoiler3.blogger.com.br/DISNEY%20UPCOMING%208.jpg ) "Coming to life" only means that it is going to be like a drawing that starts to move and have dimension when the film is played.
No, it is not an opinion. Everybody can see how much more fluid the movements are in hand drawned Disney movies compared to the stiffness seen in the CGI movies made so far. That's not an opinion, but a fact.
I'm sure articles found in New York Times and other famous newspapers and magazines are using words are "legendary" about people too sometimes. Like I already have mentioned a lot of time, why not replace the words with some new ones if they seems to be incorrect, instead of deleting the whole thing.
Actually, it is true. The squash and stretch and all the other rules created be the nine old men, as well as the experience from those who are trained in traditional animation at the studio, are going to be used in the future computer animated features from Disney, but it is just now that the technology has advanced enough to make it possible to do on computers that earlier was only possible in 2D animation. ("The Studio brings over 80 years of animation experience to the medium, and our goal is to carry that wonderful legacy forward in the new digital frontier." http://www.cinemareview.com/production.asp?prodid=3178 ) If we all should delete everything that didn't fit with out personal flavor, there would be a lot of deleting on wikipedia. 193.216.120.87 13:21, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
It is an active and online encyclopaedia, meaning that what is unique today may not be it tomorrow. If say, the information has to adjust. Not worse than that. Also, it is fully possible to change the words in a sentence without change its meaning.
I am fully aware of that, and my link was never intendent to be permanent. Only as long as the delete debate was going on, which I assume is not going to be forever either. And again, this is not speculation but based on quotes from different sources. And as I already have mentioned, most articles about future films on wikipedia have a note where it says that "the content may change dramatically as the film's release approaches and more information becomes available". And yet you claim that because it is still around 3 years in the future, it is too early for that kind of information.
I have admitted what you say? It is not an opinion that the characters in CGI movies like Shrek moves much stiffer than the characters in for instance Nimh or The Little Mermaid. It's a fact.
Like also suggested, it is easy to replace the word "legendary" with something more neutral if it feels so wrong.
Based in the technological improvements and spoken ambitions, it is safe to say in what direction Disney wants to go with their animated movies.
I have never had any problems in baing taken seriously. I may seem a little aggressive in a few sentences, partly because you are unnecessary picky, but most of all because of your patronizing attitude. Without even the slightest attempt to see if anything is correct, you claims the contributions has "a strong hint of unadulterated speculation" and also claims I have totally misunderstood how Wikipedia works and are using it as my personal plaything.
OK, so apparently, Barry Manilow had a contract with Don Bluth to score three animated features, the third of which was to be "Rapunzel". The links 141.150.242.235 ( talk · contribs · WHOIS) has provided amply document that, but there's no indication of any relationship between the never-released Bluth "Rapunzel" film and this Disney "Rapunzel" film. I continue to fail to see how a contract with Bluth "must be honored" by Disney! Powers T 14:54, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
11/20/06 I'm not positive, but I think the Don Bluth Rapunzel and the Disney Rapunzel are one in the same now since Bluth's studio closed. I think Disney likely took over the projects in development from Bluth upon closure (therefore they would have to honor artist contracts already made), but I do not know this for sure. I would suggest contacting Mr. Bluth directly at DonBluth.com to get the definative answer to the status of Rapunzel and Barry Manilow's involvement in composing the score and orginial songs. Good luck. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.98.154.56 ( talk • contribs) .
11/21/06 The burden of proof is not on me to prove that Barry Manilow is signed to do the music for Rapunzel. There are plenty of sources saying the same online and in various newspaper articles and television shows during the 1990s when Thumbelina and The Pebble and the Penguin were released. The burden of proof is on you to show documentation that there are coincidently and unbelieveably two studios working many years at the same time on a movie about Rapunzel. It seems the right thing to do would be to have Barry Manilow's name, as well as Bruce Sussman listed ( [1]) as signed songwriters along with the other names listed at least until it becomes clear closer to the movie release date that they are indeed involved with a completely seperate movie project with the same name, if that is the case. 67.98.154.56 ( talk • contribs) .
11/24/06 I'm just a good samariton looking forward to a movie, not someone trying to start a fight. I think you may be right about there being two movies going on on Rapunzel. I was wondering if you can start a stub for the Bluth movie in the making. Today I came across this related sample of footage from the Bluth version here Animated News 10/22/2004 Archives: "Don Bluth animates Scissor Sisters video" 67.98.154.56 ( talk • contribs) .
11/25/06 Online I was looking into the status of Don Bluth's studios (Ireland and Arizona) online and found these articles Variety.com Court puts stamp on Bluth sale There is no mention in the Variety article about Rapunzel being a part of the deal which tells me that Bluth himself must still have it (that could be why some of the footage from Rapunzel surfaced in that 2004 music video). Since Rapunzel is conspiculously out of the liquidation deal (as the movie is the third and final film in the Manilow deal) leads me to think that it is currently in limbo and not necessarily dead. I am not able, at the moment, to find anything that says that the movie is canned or for that matter still active either. As for his Arizona studio, that appears to have been shutdown by Fox in 2000 Murdoch: "A Pretty Horrible Year" For 20th Century Fox
Currently, it looks like Bluth and Gary Goldman donated to the Savannah College of Art and Design one million pieces of art including animation cels, drawings and sketches Animators Don Bluth and Gary Goldman donate original artwork It also looks like they are doing animation for games Bluth and Goldman working on I-Ninja Namco announces that animated filmmakers Don Bluth and Gary Goldman will create in-game movies for its upcoming action game In all I think Bluth and Goldman are sitting on Rapunzel and could release it at anytime. It could be anything holding them up from doing so from money, to music (it seems from his official page that they left Manilow hanging on about the project) or anything. Please create a stub for this project. If nothing pans out the stub could always be deleted. 67.98.154.56 ( talk • contribs) .
Define the phrase "not a full-length feature film". This was a description of this film at Talk:The Princess and the Frog. Georgia guy 22:52, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Is it a fairy tale comedy a la Shrek, Happily N'Ever After, and Chicken Little? Or is it more like the normal Disney princesses? 24.4.131.142 ( talk) 21:06, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
No, it's not a fairy tale comedy. It was, but they're decided theat they're sticking to the original storyline. By the way, Chicken Little is not a fairy tale. ( talk 7:27, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
The last view animated movies were really great, I just hope disney can keep this up. However if I view this screenshot of the main character and look at the so far discussed plot, I have my doubts that this movie will be any good. I hope they are not going to tell a kitschy fairy tale movie. Fairy tales are always great, if they stick to a good plot line! The danger in animating a fairy tale is always that you move away from a sincere movie to a crappy kitsch tale. This animated character remembers me very much on the barbie movies. I've seen what Barbie as Rapunzel and what they made with the movie, it was total kitschy crap, mostly like the rest of the line. However I hope Disney can make it better! The idea is great, I hope disney really makes something out of it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Konohanin ( talk • contribs) 20:37, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
If this is the 49th and The King of Elves is the 51th, then what is the 50th? That seems like a big number. are they keeping some big Mickey centered epic under their hat for THIS long?
hi rapunzel —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.87.176.7 ( talk) 03:54, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
According to a press release on the official Walt Disney Animation Studios Facebook page, this film has apparently been renamed "Tangled". Not sure if that is enough evidence, though - or how to change the page title, for that matter... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ophias ( talk • contribs) 20:30, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Note, I'm closing this since it was moved. I'll make additional comments on the following request. Vegaswikian ( talk) 20:45, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Rapunzel (film) →
Tangled (film) — It was announced on
Facebook today that the film will be called "Tangled". [Reopened for further discussion] -
81.111.114.131 (
talk)
15:45, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
I am not a vandal. What gives you that idea? Changes to pages should not be based on the user who made them, but the changes that were made and their sources. -- DisneyFriends ( talk) 21:17, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
I agree. -- DisneyFriends ( talk) 22:07, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
Not moved. Having two nominations opened at the same time seems to have confused the RM listing bot. It also appears that the reverse of this move was made the day before the nominations if I'm reading the history correctly. So that makes both of these discussions some what confusing. So this situation in my opinion results in a no consensus here. Having said that, If anyone believes that this move is still the correct choice they can relist this at WP:RM. With only one discussion open, maybe the discussion will be less confusing.
Tangled (film) → Rapunzel (film) —
Not moved. Based on the discussion it appears that Disney has announced that the name is the current name of the article. Since the nominator agrees, this can be closed. For those that don't know, this is my (vegaswikian) non privileged id. Vegaswikian1 ( talk) 04:05, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Tangled (film) → Rapunzel (film) — The official Walt Disney Animation Studios website still says "Rapunzel", and so should the title remain until such time as the name change to Tangled is official (if it ever happens; this film has changed names before). And let's not do weird things like moving the article while discussion is underway, shall we? — Powers T 13:09, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
I think I finally found the magic bullet that should put all of this to rest ... and from probably the most honest, reliable source there is (relatively speaking): The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. A quick search using the Office's website and its Trademark Electronic Search System (from homepage, select "Search Marks" from the Trademarks menu, then do New User Search) found nearly 30 items using either "Tangled" or "Disney Tangled". The trademarks are for all manner of consumer products that one would relate to marketing for a movie (shampoo for girls, gifts, etc.). The earliest date that I can find so far is February 11, 2010, so this is indeed a very recent decision. Best of all, who's the applicant? "Disney Enterprises, Inc." Disney wouldn't go to all the trouble to register this stuff if that wasn't the title. If the US Government isn't a reliable enough source to determine Disney has renamed the film Tangled, I don't know what is, frankly. -- McDoobAU93 ( talk) 15:30, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Proving Variety was right all along, the Walt Disney Pictures website has replaced Rapunzel with Tangled. -- McDoobAU93 ( talk) 20:00, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
So should this discussion be marked as resolved?-- Jashack ( talk) 22:14, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
In the plot summary it calls Flynn Rider a prince. I have never heard him refered to as a prince. Where does thins information come from? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.55.26 ( talk) 21:04, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I think there should be some mention of the harsh criticism the name change has recieved from Disney fans, however I have yet to find any official article about it that could be used as a reference. One can clearly see that fans almost universally dislike the title by reading comments on Disney's Facebook page, message boards, etc. but I need something official. Does anyone know a source that could be used as a reference for this? 96.255.55.26 ( talk) 20:27, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Honestly I don't think you could find as many fans who like the title as those who dislike it. And it seems to me that the opinions of Disney fans are rather notable when writing about a Disney film. 96.255.55.26 ( talk) 16:43, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
Years ago, when I was a child, I saw a version of Rapunzel that was an episode of a programme on PBS that related fairy tales in the following manner: the host of the program was an artist who would draw the pictures that made up the story on a huge white easel behind him. He would narrate the story and do the voices of the characters. It was always an interesting story, and I saw the show on several occasions when I had P.D. days. I don't remember the title, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.167.113 ( talk) 03:21, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
I think the article should be re-edited, now that the trailers make it apparent, that all the high and mighty words about appearing hand drawn and like oil paintings came not to be and the graphics are just todays standard CGI. -- 89.246.165.51 ( talk) 16:49, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
For some reason not made clear on edit comments, the following (or similar) has been removed repeatedly from the introduction:
The story is largely based on the classic German fairy tale Rapunzel by the Brothers Grimm; according to Edwin Catmull, the president of Walt Disney Animation Studios, Tangled is the last fairy tale-based Disney film for the foreseeable future, putting on hold for the first time a tradition of "princess movies" that dates back to 1937's Snow White.
Seems hard to question its notability, coming from the LA Times and said by the guy who authorized the film's production. I'm mentioning it here on the assumption that it will get removed again; if that happens, I think the topic ought to be discussed here. Thanks. 67.101.5.232 ( talk) 21:09, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
I thought it was common knowledge that Disney denied that LA Times article. They are planning on doing more musicals and fairy-tales. The Times was apparently, "misinformed". This was confirmed on Disney's Official Twitter and Facebook pages. 66.19.119.77 ( talk) 22:12, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
$11,600,000 is not Tangled's Gross Revenue. That's how much it made in the US. Gross Revenue means how much it made internationally. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Disney09 ( talk • contribs) 13:30, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
Why is there a gross revenue on this article, when the film hasn't been released worldwide yet? 66.19.119.71 ( talk) 05:28, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
I know this probably doesn't stand a chance, but I'd point out that the article may very well qualify for Category:Fiction narrated by a dead person. Flynn even says in the opening that he dies and the fact that he's brought back to life afterward seems incidental.
...I'm just sayin'... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.254.86.192 ( talk) 03:01, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
Please stop changing the budget unless you can find a reliable source that contradicts the Los Angeles Times article, "According to the Los Angeles Times, after factoring in six years of development costs Tangled cost more than $260 million to produce." [3]. Thank you. Mike Allen 22:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
The Title in these three countries isn't Rapunzel - A Tangled Tale. It's Rapunzel - neu verföhnt which has a similiar meaning to Rapunzel - new blow-dried. That's becaue the German word for to blow-dry (föhnen) is similar to the German word etw. verfilmen which means to make sth. into a film.
Though, the word-by-word translation of the german title Rapunzel - neu verföhnt is nearly Rapunzel - new blow-dried wrong, because the german prefix ver- carries a negative connotation, so verföhnen means something like to destroy sb.'s hairstyle with blow-drying. But as a native you barely recognize this negative connotation, so it's just a wordplay with the german words for to blow-dry and to make into a movie.
Without the wordplay the german title would be Rapunzel - neu verfilmt, which could be translated to Rapunzel - remade into a movie — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gartenzaun ( talk • contribs) 14:55, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
the "plot" section of the article doesn't actually say anything about the story shouldn't some one make a new section for the part thats there already, like "story development" or something and find out about the plot they are using now and add there there instead 82.22.207.236 ( talk) 17:00, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
Rationale for use on AfD subpage is:
Thanks. 81.104.165.184 18:15, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
What specualtion? Everything is based in information. You didn't even try to do a single search to see if at least something was correct? That's lazy. I assume some links are already mentioned in the article, so I might repeat something; http://mag.awn.com/index.php?ltype=pageone&article_no=2684&page=6 "So with Rapunzel Keane is trying to bring drawing into CG by applying basic design principles. He admits that it’s a big leap forward for both character performance and environment. For inspiration, Keane and his animators are referencing a painting by French Rococo artist Jean-Honore Fragonard, The Swing, applying a certain richness that they have never attained in animation before." "Kyle Strawitz really helped me start to believe that the things I wanted to see were possible… that you could move in a Disney painterly world. He took the house from Snow White and built it and painted it so that it looked like a flat painting that suddenly started to move, and it had dimension and kept all of the soft, round curves of the brushstrokes of watercolor. Kyle helped us get that Fragonard look of that girl on the swing… We are using subsurface scattering and global illumination and all of the latest techniques to pull off convincing human characters and rich environments." http://www.spoiler3.blogger.com.br/DISNEY%20UPCOMING%208.jpg
http://mag.awn.com/index.php?ltype=pageone&article_no=2684&page=5 "Paul is at the forefront of [helping bring this into the computer], because he knows what makes a painting a painting; it’s not just how a brush stroke looks because we’ve gone way beyond that since Tarzan. It has to do with how light and paint interact with each other… that luminosity, the layering, which makes a huge difference."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/10/23/financial1010EDT0052.DTL In an early version, Mr. Keane noticed that his famous mermaid didn't seem like herself. "There was a deadness in her eyes, a dull quality," he says. The shoulders seemed stiff. She also wasn't hitting what old-time Disney artists call "the golden poses," the few memorable images that sell each character to the audience. Fixing the piece required combining the experienced eye of a traditional animator with the computer chops of someone from the new school. Mr. Keane drew by hand what he wanted and superimposed it over the computer-animated image. At one point, his team worked for nearly a week trying to light up Ariel's smile by pushing her cheeks up and creating little creases around her eyes. "The Ariel project was a testing ground for forcing a CG figure into a hand-drawn look," Mr. Keane says. "We made the computer bend its knee to the artist, rather than the artist bend its knee to the computer." "He put together a presentation called "The Best of Both Worlds," which listed the strengths and weaknesses of each genre, and called a meeting to discuss it. "Immediately, you could feel the polarization of the two groups," Mr. Keane says." "To clear the air, Mr. Keane convened a retreat of about 25 artists at the Huntington Library in San Marino, Calif. The discussion focused on redesigning Disney's production process to enhance collaboration. Disney had already been tweaking standard computer-animation software to make it more intuitive for newcomers. At the retreat, the artists got a look at an even simpler tool the company has been developing, which would allow artists to control the movements of their computer characters by drawing on a screen with a pencil-like stylus, rather than using a mouse." "Mr. Keane and other artists often didn't like what they saw on screen in computer animation. While they admired the storytelling and characters in the computer-generated movies made by Pixar and others, many of them saw the art itself as crude, especially in its attempts to capture the complexity of a human form. "If you look at Fiona in `Shrek,"' Mr. Keane says, "her shoulders never seem to move." He decided that embracing computer animation would mean "I would have to go backwards from what I do by hand."
http://cinematech.blogspot.com/2005/09/disney-moves-away-from-hand-drawn.html "I loved 'Shrek,' " Mr. Keane responded. But the characters, particularly Princess Fiona, looked plastic to him. "Every frame of that film was a bad drawing to me, personally," he said.
http://www.cinemareview.com/production.asp?prodid=3178 A great example of adapting “squash and stretch” for CG animation is the big baseball game in “Chicken Little.” "CG Supervisors Kevin Geiger and Kyle Odermatt and their team came up with these tools to bring more elasticity to the facial performance, and help animators approximate the range they would normally have with traditional animation. “Chicken Wire” is a collection of wire deformers that add extra functionality. These tools specifically address the common complaint that computer animation is too puppet-like or mannequin-ish." "And finally, for those animators who come from a drawing background, new electronic tablet screens allow them to rough out their characters’ movements using digital sketches. Similar to drawn thumbnails, the computer keeps track of each successive electronic drawing and allows the animator to block out their performance in 2D in minutes. Goldberg concludes, “‘Chicken Little’ has laid a foundation for making CG features that all future Disney films will benefit from. We have the ability to create anything the story guys can come up with. We can create it and art-direct it in a way that I don’t think any other studio can realize. The Studio brings over 80 years of animation experience to the medium, and our goal is to carry that wonderful legacy forward in the new digital frontier. We are not driven by technology, but control the technology to make it do what we want it to do."
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/19/business/disney.php Keane, a 31-year veteran who created the beast from "Beauty and the Beast" and Ariel from "The Little Mermaid," was a Disney traditionalist. But after a series of experiments to see whether he could create a computer-animated ballerina, his opposition softened. So he invited the 50 animators to discuss the pros and cons of both art forms, calling his seminar "The Best of Both Worlds." For an hour, Keane listed the pluses and minuses of each technique while the other animators listened quietly.
http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=20944
http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/articles/printer_friendly.php?ID=1589 "I found my inspiration for the look of this film in a painting called 'The Swing,'" Keane continued. "It was painted by a French Rocco artist named Jean-Honore Fragonard. Just look at how rich this imagery is. It's like there's butter between the brush strokes." Glen challenged "Rapunzel" art director Lisa Keane to come up with a look that was at least as rich as the world suggested in Fragonard's painting. And wonder of wonders, Lisa was actually able to pull that off in a CG format. With these big steps forward, Glen was now able to start moving "Rapunzel Unbraided" in the direction that he wanted. Which was a Disney CG feature that -- while it still had all the strengths & virtues that a traditionally animated film had -- still looked and felt like nothing that Disney Feature Animation had ever done before."
http://www.ualberta.ca/~ntam/2005_11_01_archive.html The visual concept behind Rapunzel Unbraided - an oil painting that moves in 3D space - is one of the most exciting developments I've heard of about the future of the now rather unexciting movie business, which has with few exceptions become aesthetically stagnant now that the wonders of technology are peaking.
Another comment on a board; " And I’ve heard Disney has created such software for Keane’s Rapunzel Unbraided. Drawing forcelines and silhouettes on a tablet pc in the animation table. I believe it was shown at Siggraph last year… Who knows, maybe they’ll show it again this year? If so, I hope to hear about it, cause that seems to be the most awesome way to animate ever. Keeping the 2D feeling but having more depth as a result."
I remeber even some more links about comments on how this movie is going to be made and how those who saw the test at SIGGRAPT really thought it was like a painting coming to life, but this is probably enough for now. The last link is just referring to an opinion, but it is very well said. If you don't like how the article is written, why din't you write it with your own words instead?
-- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.216.91.183 ( talk • contribs)
Let's not excise large portions of the content until the AfD is done. Besides, it's obvious this information came from somewhere, we just need to find out where. Powers 11:16, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
OK, I have now posted a link that are relevent for the "citation needed" parts (which I have removed). The link http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi? , does not work anymore, so I have linked to a discussion board where the whole article is copied instead. In my opinion, it doesn't belong here becasue it is about Disney animation in generel, not about Rapunzel Unbraided exclusively. But since some seems to be so difficult that they thinks the whole thing should be deleted if there isn't any links where the information can be verified, it belongs there at least for the moment as all the information that is needed can be found in it and the references. 193.217.133.119 09:49, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
To reiterate the POV issues:
To suggest it's unique is a value judgement, which NPOV does not allow us to make. Of course, if there are enough (i.e. considerably more than just one) sources around which suggest it's unique, then we can say that provided it's attributed (i.e. we state that others think it is unique).
Again, what constitutes "coming to life" is a value judgement. If enough people in the real world make the suggestion, then we can include it, properly attributed.
That's an opinion, but whose is it? It's certainly not Wikipedia's opinion, since that needs to be neutral.
Again, legendary in whose opinion?
Ugh. Sales talk.
I'm also concerned about the "concept art", which has been tagged with {{ promotional}}, yet without a definitive source at Disney to suggest that they are. 81.104.165.184 11:07, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
What do you think all the fuzz in the animation industry is about? It is because what they are trying to do has never been done before.
It is not the "coming to life" part that is the main subject here, but what a single frame from the movie looks like. ("He took the house from Snow White and built it and painted it so that it looked like a flat painting that suddenly started to move, and it had dimension and kept all of the soft, round curves of the brushstrokes of watercolor. http://www.spoiler3.blogger.com.br/DISNEY%20UPCOMING%208.jpg ) "Coming to life" only means that it is going to be like a drawing that starts to move and have dimension when the film is played.
No, it is not an opinion. Everybody can see how much more fluid the movements are in hand drawned Disney movies compared to the stiffness seen in the CGI movies made so far. That's not an opinion, but a fact.
I'm sure articles found in New York Times and other famous newspapers and magazines are using words are "legendary" about people too sometimes. Like I already have mentioned a lot of time, why not replace the words with some new ones if they seems to be incorrect, instead of deleting the whole thing.
Actually, it is true. The squash and stretch and all the other rules created be the nine old men, as well as the experience from those who are trained in traditional animation at the studio, are going to be used in the future computer animated features from Disney, but it is just now that the technology has advanced enough to make it possible to do on computers that earlier was only possible in 2D animation. ("The Studio brings over 80 years of animation experience to the medium, and our goal is to carry that wonderful legacy forward in the new digital frontier." http://www.cinemareview.com/production.asp?prodid=3178 ) If we all should delete everything that didn't fit with out personal flavor, there would be a lot of deleting on wikipedia. 193.216.120.87 13:21, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
It is an active and online encyclopaedia, meaning that what is unique today may not be it tomorrow. If say, the information has to adjust. Not worse than that. Also, it is fully possible to change the words in a sentence without change its meaning.
I am fully aware of that, and my link was never intendent to be permanent. Only as long as the delete debate was going on, which I assume is not going to be forever either. And again, this is not speculation but based on quotes from different sources. And as I already have mentioned, most articles about future films on wikipedia have a note where it says that "the content may change dramatically as the film's release approaches and more information becomes available". And yet you claim that because it is still around 3 years in the future, it is too early for that kind of information.
I have admitted what you say? It is not an opinion that the characters in CGI movies like Shrek moves much stiffer than the characters in for instance Nimh or The Little Mermaid. It's a fact.
Like also suggested, it is easy to replace the word "legendary" with something more neutral if it feels so wrong.
Based in the technological improvements and spoken ambitions, it is safe to say in what direction Disney wants to go with their animated movies.
I have never had any problems in baing taken seriously. I may seem a little aggressive in a few sentences, partly because you are unnecessary picky, but most of all because of your patronizing attitude. Without even the slightest attempt to see if anything is correct, you claims the contributions has "a strong hint of unadulterated speculation" and also claims I have totally misunderstood how Wikipedia works and are using it as my personal plaything.
OK, so apparently, Barry Manilow had a contract with Don Bluth to score three animated features, the third of which was to be "Rapunzel". The links 141.150.242.235 ( talk · contribs · WHOIS) has provided amply document that, but there's no indication of any relationship between the never-released Bluth "Rapunzel" film and this Disney "Rapunzel" film. I continue to fail to see how a contract with Bluth "must be honored" by Disney! Powers T 14:54, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
11/20/06 I'm not positive, but I think the Don Bluth Rapunzel and the Disney Rapunzel are one in the same now since Bluth's studio closed. I think Disney likely took over the projects in development from Bluth upon closure (therefore they would have to honor artist contracts already made), but I do not know this for sure. I would suggest contacting Mr. Bluth directly at DonBluth.com to get the definative answer to the status of Rapunzel and Barry Manilow's involvement in composing the score and orginial songs. Good luck. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.98.154.56 ( talk • contribs) .
11/21/06 The burden of proof is not on me to prove that Barry Manilow is signed to do the music for Rapunzel. There are plenty of sources saying the same online and in various newspaper articles and television shows during the 1990s when Thumbelina and The Pebble and the Penguin were released. The burden of proof is on you to show documentation that there are coincidently and unbelieveably two studios working many years at the same time on a movie about Rapunzel. It seems the right thing to do would be to have Barry Manilow's name, as well as Bruce Sussman listed ( [1]) as signed songwriters along with the other names listed at least until it becomes clear closer to the movie release date that they are indeed involved with a completely seperate movie project with the same name, if that is the case. 67.98.154.56 ( talk • contribs) .
11/24/06 I'm just a good samariton looking forward to a movie, not someone trying to start a fight. I think you may be right about there being two movies going on on Rapunzel. I was wondering if you can start a stub for the Bluth movie in the making. Today I came across this related sample of footage from the Bluth version here Animated News 10/22/2004 Archives: "Don Bluth animates Scissor Sisters video" 67.98.154.56 ( talk • contribs) .
11/25/06 Online I was looking into the status of Don Bluth's studios (Ireland and Arizona) online and found these articles Variety.com Court puts stamp on Bluth sale There is no mention in the Variety article about Rapunzel being a part of the deal which tells me that Bluth himself must still have it (that could be why some of the footage from Rapunzel surfaced in that 2004 music video). Since Rapunzel is conspiculously out of the liquidation deal (as the movie is the third and final film in the Manilow deal) leads me to think that it is currently in limbo and not necessarily dead. I am not able, at the moment, to find anything that says that the movie is canned or for that matter still active either. As for his Arizona studio, that appears to have been shutdown by Fox in 2000 Murdoch: "A Pretty Horrible Year" For 20th Century Fox
Currently, it looks like Bluth and Gary Goldman donated to the Savannah College of Art and Design one million pieces of art including animation cels, drawings and sketches Animators Don Bluth and Gary Goldman donate original artwork It also looks like they are doing animation for games Bluth and Goldman working on I-Ninja Namco announces that animated filmmakers Don Bluth and Gary Goldman will create in-game movies for its upcoming action game In all I think Bluth and Goldman are sitting on Rapunzel and could release it at anytime. It could be anything holding them up from doing so from money, to music (it seems from his official page that they left Manilow hanging on about the project) or anything. Please create a stub for this project. If nothing pans out the stub could always be deleted. 67.98.154.56 ( talk • contribs) .
Define the phrase "not a full-length feature film". This was a description of this film at Talk:The Princess and the Frog. Georgia guy 22:52, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Is it a fairy tale comedy a la Shrek, Happily N'Ever After, and Chicken Little? Or is it more like the normal Disney princesses? 24.4.131.142 ( talk) 21:06, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
No, it's not a fairy tale comedy. It was, but they're decided theat they're sticking to the original storyline. By the way, Chicken Little is not a fairy tale. ( talk 7:27, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
The last view animated movies were really great, I just hope disney can keep this up. However if I view this screenshot of the main character and look at the so far discussed plot, I have my doubts that this movie will be any good. I hope they are not going to tell a kitschy fairy tale movie. Fairy tales are always great, if they stick to a good plot line! The danger in animating a fairy tale is always that you move away from a sincere movie to a crappy kitsch tale. This animated character remembers me very much on the barbie movies. I've seen what Barbie as Rapunzel and what they made with the movie, it was total kitschy crap, mostly like the rest of the line. However I hope Disney can make it better! The idea is great, I hope disney really makes something out of it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Konohanin ( talk • contribs) 20:37, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
If this is the 49th and The King of Elves is the 51th, then what is the 50th? That seems like a big number. are they keeping some big Mickey centered epic under their hat for THIS long?
hi rapunzel —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.87.176.7 ( talk) 03:54, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
According to a press release on the official Walt Disney Animation Studios Facebook page, this film has apparently been renamed "Tangled". Not sure if that is enough evidence, though - or how to change the page title, for that matter... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ophias ( talk • contribs) 20:30, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Note, I'm closing this since it was moved. I'll make additional comments on the following request. Vegaswikian ( talk) 20:45, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Rapunzel (film) →
Tangled (film) — It was announced on
Facebook today that the film will be called "Tangled". [Reopened for further discussion] -
81.111.114.131 (
talk)
15:45, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
I am not a vandal. What gives you that idea? Changes to pages should not be based on the user who made them, but the changes that were made and their sources. -- DisneyFriends ( talk) 21:17, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
I agree. -- DisneyFriends ( talk) 22:07, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
Not moved. Having two nominations opened at the same time seems to have confused the RM listing bot. It also appears that the reverse of this move was made the day before the nominations if I'm reading the history correctly. So that makes both of these discussions some what confusing. So this situation in my opinion results in a no consensus here. Having said that, If anyone believes that this move is still the correct choice they can relist this at WP:RM. With only one discussion open, maybe the discussion will be less confusing.
Tangled (film) → Rapunzel (film) —
Not moved. Based on the discussion it appears that Disney has announced that the name is the current name of the article. Since the nominator agrees, this can be closed. For those that don't know, this is my (vegaswikian) non privileged id. Vegaswikian1 ( talk) 04:05, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Tangled (film) → Rapunzel (film) — The official Walt Disney Animation Studios website still says "Rapunzel", and so should the title remain until such time as the name change to Tangled is official (if it ever happens; this film has changed names before). And let's not do weird things like moving the article while discussion is underway, shall we? — Powers T 13:09, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
I think I finally found the magic bullet that should put all of this to rest ... and from probably the most honest, reliable source there is (relatively speaking): The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. A quick search using the Office's website and its Trademark Electronic Search System (from homepage, select "Search Marks" from the Trademarks menu, then do New User Search) found nearly 30 items using either "Tangled" or "Disney Tangled". The trademarks are for all manner of consumer products that one would relate to marketing for a movie (shampoo for girls, gifts, etc.). The earliest date that I can find so far is February 11, 2010, so this is indeed a very recent decision. Best of all, who's the applicant? "Disney Enterprises, Inc." Disney wouldn't go to all the trouble to register this stuff if that wasn't the title. If the US Government isn't a reliable enough source to determine Disney has renamed the film Tangled, I don't know what is, frankly. -- McDoobAU93 ( talk) 15:30, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Proving Variety was right all along, the Walt Disney Pictures website has replaced Rapunzel with Tangled. -- McDoobAU93 ( talk) 20:00, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
So should this discussion be marked as resolved?-- Jashack ( talk) 22:14, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
In the plot summary it calls Flynn Rider a prince. I have never heard him refered to as a prince. Where does thins information come from? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.55.26 ( talk) 21:04, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I think there should be some mention of the harsh criticism the name change has recieved from Disney fans, however I have yet to find any official article about it that could be used as a reference. One can clearly see that fans almost universally dislike the title by reading comments on Disney's Facebook page, message boards, etc. but I need something official. Does anyone know a source that could be used as a reference for this? 96.255.55.26 ( talk) 20:27, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Honestly I don't think you could find as many fans who like the title as those who dislike it. And it seems to me that the opinions of Disney fans are rather notable when writing about a Disney film. 96.255.55.26 ( talk) 16:43, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
Years ago, when I was a child, I saw a version of Rapunzel that was an episode of a programme on PBS that related fairy tales in the following manner: the host of the program was an artist who would draw the pictures that made up the story on a huge white easel behind him. He would narrate the story and do the voices of the characters. It was always an interesting story, and I saw the show on several occasions when I had P.D. days. I don't remember the title, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.167.113 ( talk) 03:21, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
I think the article should be re-edited, now that the trailers make it apparent, that all the high and mighty words about appearing hand drawn and like oil paintings came not to be and the graphics are just todays standard CGI. -- 89.246.165.51 ( talk) 16:49, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
For some reason not made clear on edit comments, the following (or similar) has been removed repeatedly from the introduction:
The story is largely based on the classic German fairy tale Rapunzel by the Brothers Grimm; according to Edwin Catmull, the president of Walt Disney Animation Studios, Tangled is the last fairy tale-based Disney film for the foreseeable future, putting on hold for the first time a tradition of "princess movies" that dates back to 1937's Snow White.
Seems hard to question its notability, coming from the LA Times and said by the guy who authorized the film's production. I'm mentioning it here on the assumption that it will get removed again; if that happens, I think the topic ought to be discussed here. Thanks. 67.101.5.232 ( talk) 21:09, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
I thought it was common knowledge that Disney denied that LA Times article. They are planning on doing more musicals and fairy-tales. The Times was apparently, "misinformed". This was confirmed on Disney's Official Twitter and Facebook pages. 66.19.119.77 ( talk) 22:12, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
$11,600,000 is not Tangled's Gross Revenue. That's how much it made in the US. Gross Revenue means how much it made internationally. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Disney09 ( talk • contribs) 13:30, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
Why is there a gross revenue on this article, when the film hasn't been released worldwide yet? 66.19.119.71 ( talk) 05:28, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
I know this probably doesn't stand a chance, but I'd point out that the article may very well qualify for Category:Fiction narrated by a dead person. Flynn even says in the opening that he dies and the fact that he's brought back to life afterward seems incidental.
...I'm just sayin'... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.254.86.192 ( talk) 03:01, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
Please stop changing the budget unless you can find a reliable source that contradicts the Los Angeles Times article, "According to the Los Angeles Times, after factoring in six years of development costs Tangled cost more than $260 million to produce." [3]. Thank you. Mike Allen 22:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
The Title in these three countries isn't Rapunzel - A Tangled Tale. It's Rapunzel - neu verföhnt which has a similiar meaning to Rapunzel - new blow-dried. That's becaue the German word for to blow-dry (föhnen) is similar to the German word etw. verfilmen which means to make sth. into a film.
Though, the word-by-word translation of the german title Rapunzel - neu verföhnt is nearly Rapunzel - new blow-dried wrong, because the german prefix ver- carries a negative connotation, so verföhnen means something like to destroy sb.'s hairstyle with blow-drying. But as a native you barely recognize this negative connotation, so it's just a wordplay with the german words for to blow-dry and to make into a movie.
Without the wordplay the german title would be Rapunzel - neu verfilmt, which could be translated to Rapunzel - remade into a movie — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gartenzaun ( talk • contribs) 14:55, 7 January 2011 (UTC)