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Please mention historical claims by ROC to be the only legitimate government of all China (including the mainland). When, if ever, did they renounce such claims?
Also include UN membership. Was ROC ever in the UN? Were they dropped in favor of PRC?
Most importantly, describe current status. What other countries recognize ROC sovereignty over Taiwan? Ed Poor
I separated ROC from Taiwan since there are somewhat distinct concepts. For example an article on the Republic of China would include the Beijing warlords, which wouldn't fit in an article on Taiwan.
Roadrunner added this to the bottom from History of China:
The identical text found at History of China Taku 18:27 Jan 2, 2003 (UTC)
Please replace or add the Chinese term for "Republic of China" in Traditional Chinese.
See Talk:Taiwan (bottom of page Organizing ROC-Taiwan articles) for proposed reorganization of Taiwan/ROC articles. -- Jiang 01:44 13 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Too much politicizing of the issue regarding PRC vs RoC. Yes - RoC was the recognized "true china" until 1970s when the PRC was recognized by the UN. The page is a bit too ambigious.
The seal should have less blue space: http://www.roc-taiwan-fr.com/policy/histoire/societe/images/14.jpg -- Jiang 08:12, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Still, the navy medals don't show as much space as here. I don't think having this much space is common. Let's put up a conventional design... -- Jiang 08:50, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I removed the following. They seem too detailed for the intro paragraph:
"Since two different governments cannot claim sovereignty on the same lands, this became a thorny issue for foreign governments, who have to choose which Chinese government they recognize."
This would better belong in "foreign relations". I think it's already there. It's incorrect to say "two different governments cannot claim sovereignty on the same lands". You can't stop them! But even two countries with territorial disputes can both be recognized by most of the world (Korea?). It was the two Chinas preventing this from happening, not the world community not being able to recognize both.
"With a few exceptions, most countries now recognize the People's Republic of China, which implies that Taiwan does not have embassies in those countries (but has some "representations")."
The second clause is simply redundant. It would be better to state that only 27 nations recognize the ROC. (It's more specific and shorter.)
"Official maps from the People's Republic of China show Taiwan as part of its territory." Not necessary to know in the intro. It is implied already. -- Jiang 03:18, 3 Oct 2003 (UTC)
they can show whatever they want on their "official maps." the fact is, the communist took over the majority of china, not the whole 100%. their territory limits to mainland china, they never granted sovereignty over taiwan.
Did you know, by the way, that Mao had previously supported Taiwanese independence when it was under Japanese occupation? Not unification with China, independence. Anyways, agreed with the above about official maps. It's a Orwellian game that the Chinese play, and I would've thought that Wikipedia would stick with what is fact, but these articles need some big changes.-- 160.39.195.88 17:30, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I am just curious about the phonetic system in ROC: which one is offically recognized? The Wade-Giles or Zhuyin? I noticed that Wade-Giles is used below the Chinese characters in the page. -- ILovEJPPitoC 10:09, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
I think the zhuyin should be left out of the table. The countries template only calls for the official name. Zhuyin is used for educational, not official purposes. Government publications are never in zhuyin, while TY is used for English publications like Who's who in Taiwan. -- Jia ng 05:58, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
See Talk:Taiwan#Zhuyin (the zhuyin was taken out before). We only care about the official (as in official language official) version of the script. Transliterations only appear in practice (and are not part of the official template). Therefore, it is not logical to include zhuyin.
Is Tongyong really supposed to be written CamelCase style? (i.e. MinGuo instead of Minguo)? -- Jia ng 07:38, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Should the chinese characters be right to left or left to right. I think the new bills with little children has it left to right, while it's right to left elsewhere. -- Jia ng 07:52, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Why is Wade-Giles included in the introduction? It's not official, and it's so rarely used that I've never seen Zhonghua Minguo written in Wade-Giles at all. It's not one of those phrases whose W-G romanization became popularized in the West, so it's probably as rare as the Yale romanization. So is it OK to delete it? -- Xiaopo's Talk 20:47, Jan 1, 2004 (UTC)
the signs I've seen where either Tongyong or Hanyu. Taipei uses Hanyu Pinyin with Camel Case.
-- User:Roadrunner 2 Jan 2004
When/Where does "Tongyong" declared official? pektiong 01:36, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Aren't the three people's principles (三民主義) the National Motto, so to speak? -- Xiaopo's Talk 04:48, Dec 31, 2003 (UTC)
I am a little confused by the data of the Population in the table. "Population 1,300,000,000 Ranked 1st". How come? -- Yacht 10:55, Mar 13, 2004 (UTC)
LEGALLY, Taiwan does not have an official language. The KMT just decided it without ever making it official wenzi 21:32, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Roadrunner 16:42, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
In addition, they can be Constitutional amendments yet - at most, proposed constitutional amendments. -- Jia ng 07:44, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Here is the closest thing I've found to a statement of what was in those amendments....
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/edit/archives/2004/09/06/2003201871
The trouble with this statement is that its written by someone who is green and trying to spin the situation to his view of reality. Obviously a pan-blue supporter would interpret the amendments differently. I'm guessing that because the amendments passed the LY with the support of the KMT and PFP and that because the PRC hasn't attacked Taiwan, that the amendments aren't too bad.
Roadrunner 16:51, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
it's the opposite. usually ones speaking mandarin are the more educated ones, thus the language is commonly used in taipei, the major city. in taipei, teh majority of the students cannot speak Taiwanese. the Taiwanese dialect is usually used by less educated people in the country side. however, people in the progressive party such as the current president, tend to speak taiwanese in public to emphisize their pride as taiwanese (at the same time, deny themselves as chinese)
The intro blurn to this article is interesting and apparently accurate, but seems too long compared to other country articles. I plan to consolidate it and move the bluk elsewhere. -- Twinxor 08:40, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Ahah!! I was talking to Jiang about the KMT flag and I noticed the coat of arm picture in the article highly resembled KMT's party symbol. Please see the difference in the link if anyone is interested. [1]. I know that this might not be a general interest though. :) Mababa 07:29, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
GDP (PPP)
- Total (2002) - GDP/capita
$406 brillion (22nd) $18,000 (48th)
As Taiwan does not have diplomatic relations with most countries, what is the position for its citizens to visit the USA, UK etc Do they require visas, are Taiwanese passports accepted?
I use ROC(Taiwan) passport. Visas are required for most countries, but the passport itself is accepted and is treated as an official for travellers from Taiwan. Visas are not required for some countries, Singapore is an example. PRC (and Hong Kong, which should be considered as part of PRC now) is an exception, of course. As Jiang said, "Taiwan Compatriot Pass" issued by PRC is required, while ROC passport is completely useless in PRC. The cover of ROC passport look like this. It should be noticed that a word "Taiwan" is printed. There was no such word on the cover of passports issued before Sep. 1, 2003. -- Chi-Juin Luo, 19 Jan 2005
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Please mention historical claims by ROC to be the only legitimate government of all China (including the mainland). When, if ever, did they renounce such claims?
Also include UN membership. Was ROC ever in the UN? Were they dropped in favor of PRC?
Most importantly, describe current status. What other countries recognize ROC sovereignty over Taiwan? Ed Poor
I separated ROC from Taiwan since there are somewhat distinct concepts. For example an article on the Republic of China would include the Beijing warlords, which wouldn't fit in an article on Taiwan.
Roadrunner added this to the bottom from History of China:
The identical text found at History of China Taku 18:27 Jan 2, 2003 (UTC)
Please replace or add the Chinese term for "Republic of China" in Traditional Chinese.
See Talk:Taiwan (bottom of page Organizing ROC-Taiwan articles) for proposed reorganization of Taiwan/ROC articles. -- Jiang 01:44 13 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Too much politicizing of the issue regarding PRC vs RoC. Yes - RoC was the recognized "true china" until 1970s when the PRC was recognized by the UN. The page is a bit too ambigious.
The seal should have less blue space: http://www.roc-taiwan-fr.com/policy/histoire/societe/images/14.jpg -- Jiang 08:12, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Still, the navy medals don't show as much space as here. I don't think having this much space is common. Let's put up a conventional design... -- Jiang 08:50, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I removed the following. They seem too detailed for the intro paragraph:
"Since two different governments cannot claim sovereignty on the same lands, this became a thorny issue for foreign governments, who have to choose which Chinese government they recognize."
This would better belong in "foreign relations". I think it's already there. It's incorrect to say "two different governments cannot claim sovereignty on the same lands". You can't stop them! But even two countries with territorial disputes can both be recognized by most of the world (Korea?). It was the two Chinas preventing this from happening, not the world community not being able to recognize both.
"With a few exceptions, most countries now recognize the People's Republic of China, which implies that Taiwan does not have embassies in those countries (but has some "representations")."
The second clause is simply redundant. It would be better to state that only 27 nations recognize the ROC. (It's more specific and shorter.)
"Official maps from the People's Republic of China show Taiwan as part of its territory." Not necessary to know in the intro. It is implied already. -- Jiang 03:18, 3 Oct 2003 (UTC)
they can show whatever they want on their "official maps." the fact is, the communist took over the majority of china, not the whole 100%. their territory limits to mainland china, they never granted sovereignty over taiwan.
Did you know, by the way, that Mao had previously supported Taiwanese independence when it was under Japanese occupation? Not unification with China, independence. Anyways, agreed with the above about official maps. It's a Orwellian game that the Chinese play, and I would've thought that Wikipedia would stick with what is fact, but these articles need some big changes.-- 160.39.195.88 17:30, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I am just curious about the phonetic system in ROC: which one is offically recognized? The Wade-Giles or Zhuyin? I noticed that Wade-Giles is used below the Chinese characters in the page. -- ILovEJPPitoC 10:09, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
I think the zhuyin should be left out of the table. The countries template only calls for the official name. Zhuyin is used for educational, not official purposes. Government publications are never in zhuyin, while TY is used for English publications like Who's who in Taiwan. -- Jia ng 05:58, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
See Talk:Taiwan#Zhuyin (the zhuyin was taken out before). We only care about the official (as in official language official) version of the script. Transliterations only appear in practice (and are not part of the official template). Therefore, it is not logical to include zhuyin.
Is Tongyong really supposed to be written CamelCase style? (i.e. MinGuo instead of Minguo)? -- Jia ng 07:38, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Should the chinese characters be right to left or left to right. I think the new bills with little children has it left to right, while it's right to left elsewhere. -- Jia ng 07:52, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Why is Wade-Giles included in the introduction? It's not official, and it's so rarely used that I've never seen Zhonghua Minguo written in Wade-Giles at all. It's not one of those phrases whose W-G romanization became popularized in the West, so it's probably as rare as the Yale romanization. So is it OK to delete it? -- Xiaopo's Talk 20:47, Jan 1, 2004 (UTC)
the signs I've seen where either Tongyong or Hanyu. Taipei uses Hanyu Pinyin with Camel Case.
-- User:Roadrunner 2 Jan 2004
When/Where does "Tongyong" declared official? pektiong 01:36, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Aren't the three people's principles (三民主義) the National Motto, so to speak? -- Xiaopo's Talk 04:48, Dec 31, 2003 (UTC)
I am a little confused by the data of the Population in the table. "Population 1,300,000,000 Ranked 1st". How come? -- Yacht 10:55, Mar 13, 2004 (UTC)
LEGALLY, Taiwan does not have an official language. The KMT just decided it without ever making it official wenzi 21:32, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Roadrunner 16:42, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
In addition, they can be Constitutional amendments yet - at most, proposed constitutional amendments. -- Jia ng 07:44, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Here is the closest thing I've found to a statement of what was in those amendments....
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/edit/archives/2004/09/06/2003201871
The trouble with this statement is that its written by someone who is green and trying to spin the situation to his view of reality. Obviously a pan-blue supporter would interpret the amendments differently. I'm guessing that because the amendments passed the LY with the support of the KMT and PFP and that because the PRC hasn't attacked Taiwan, that the amendments aren't too bad.
Roadrunner 16:51, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
it's the opposite. usually ones speaking mandarin are the more educated ones, thus the language is commonly used in taipei, the major city. in taipei, teh majority of the students cannot speak Taiwanese. the Taiwanese dialect is usually used by less educated people in the country side. however, people in the progressive party such as the current president, tend to speak taiwanese in public to emphisize their pride as taiwanese (at the same time, deny themselves as chinese)
The intro blurn to this article is interesting and apparently accurate, but seems too long compared to other country articles. I plan to consolidate it and move the bluk elsewhere. -- Twinxor 08:40, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Ahah!! I was talking to Jiang about the KMT flag and I noticed the coat of arm picture in the article highly resembled KMT's party symbol. Please see the difference in the link if anyone is interested. [1]. I know that this might not be a general interest though. :) Mababa 07:29, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
GDP (PPP)
- Total (2002) - GDP/capita
$406 brillion (22nd) $18,000 (48th)
As Taiwan does not have diplomatic relations with most countries, what is the position for its citizens to visit the USA, UK etc Do they require visas, are Taiwanese passports accepted?
I use ROC(Taiwan) passport. Visas are required for most countries, but the passport itself is accepted and is treated as an official for travellers from Taiwan. Visas are not required for some countries, Singapore is an example. PRC (and Hong Kong, which should be considered as part of PRC now) is an exception, of course. As Jiang said, "Taiwan Compatriot Pass" issued by PRC is required, while ROC passport is completely useless in PRC. The cover of ROC passport look like this. It should be noticed that a word "Taiwan" is printed. There was no such word on the cover of passports issued before Sep. 1, 2003. -- Chi-Juin Luo, 19 Jan 2005