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Removed statements referring to a different area of Anatolia
I removed the following sentences from the article, because they refer to a
Pontic state, far north of the Luwian Tabal, and the development of ironwork was also far earlier than the Luwian Tabal.
Categorystuff (
talk)
03:24, 29 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Some scholars associate them with the
Meshechs (Meshekhs/Mosokhs, Moschoi in Greek).
The account that blanked this info, has been showing the very familiar patterns of a certain banned user, whose well-known M.O. in the past has been simply to pluck out any information, no matter how abundantly referenced, that his own original research does not accord with. Because there are, aside from this banned editor, innumerable other voices that certainly do make a most explicit connection between Tabal and Thobeles and Tibareni (which seems to the been the true purpose of the blanking, and not the misleading purpose stated above) I am going to have to, per policy, revert to the last version before any of these sockpuppets worked on the article; since the last several editors are all clearly manifestations of the same, my reversing action should not upset any wikipedian's legitimate work.
Til Eulenspiegel (
talk)
12:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)reply
I propose merging
Tabal (region) into
Tabal. The two pages are almost word-for-word identical. Tabal was both a kingdom and a region, but both topics can be covered within the main Tabal article - in fact, both articles currently cover both topics. @
Antiquistik and
StarTrekker:Furius (
talk)
16:39, 9 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose@
Furius: Despite some overlap, the region of Tabal and the kingdom of Tabal were not fully identical.
And, while they understandably overlap because the kingdom of Tabal was the most influential state in the region of Tabal, the broader region included several other states (such as Atuna, Ištuanda, Šinuḫtu, and Tuwana) which were not part of the kingdom of Tabal and whose relevance to the history of the region do not fit with that of the kingdom proper.
The same situation pertains with
Arzawa, where we cope with both Arzawa region and Arzawa kingdom within a single article. Given that the text of
Tabal (region) is nearly identical to the text of this article, it seems like any account of the region ends up revolving around an account of its main kingdom.
Furius (
talk)
11:21, 10 March 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Furius: In general, I would oppose the merger of region and state pages if they are/were not identical with each other, and I would extend this to Arzawa too, although I don't presently plan to split that page.
I am reworking the pages to make their content more relevant to their specific subjects without creating excessive overlap. It will take some days, but I would ask you to have a look at the end result and then let me know if this would be acceptable to you.
Antiquistik (
talk)
14:53, 23 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Everything that you write is excellent, so this is a fantastic outcome. I withdraw the merge proposal; I've added a hatnote to this article; could you add a reciprocal one to
Tabal (region).
Furius (
talk)
16:37, 23 March 2024 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please
join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Georgia (country), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Georgia and
Georgians on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Georgia (country)Wikipedia:WikiProject Georgia (country)Template:WikiProject Georgia (country)Georgia (country) articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ancient Near East, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Ancient Near East related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ancient Near EastWikipedia:WikiProject Ancient Near EastTemplate:WikiProject Ancient Near EastAncient Near East articles
Removed statements referring to a different area of Anatolia
I removed the following sentences from the article, because they refer to a
Pontic state, far north of the Luwian Tabal, and the development of ironwork was also far earlier than the Luwian Tabal.
Categorystuff (
talk)
03:24, 29 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Some scholars associate them with the
Meshechs (Meshekhs/Mosokhs, Moschoi in Greek).
The account that blanked this info, has been showing the very familiar patterns of a certain banned user, whose well-known M.O. in the past has been simply to pluck out any information, no matter how abundantly referenced, that his own original research does not accord with. Because there are, aside from this banned editor, innumerable other voices that certainly do make a most explicit connection between Tabal and Thobeles and Tibareni (which seems to the been the true purpose of the blanking, and not the misleading purpose stated above) I am going to have to, per policy, revert to the last version before any of these sockpuppets worked on the article; since the last several editors are all clearly manifestations of the same, my reversing action should not upset any wikipedian's legitimate work.
Til Eulenspiegel (
talk)
12:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)reply
I propose merging
Tabal (region) into
Tabal. The two pages are almost word-for-word identical. Tabal was both a kingdom and a region, but both topics can be covered within the main Tabal article - in fact, both articles currently cover both topics. @
Antiquistik and
StarTrekker:Furius (
talk)
16:39, 9 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose@
Furius: Despite some overlap, the region of Tabal and the kingdom of Tabal were not fully identical.
And, while they understandably overlap because the kingdom of Tabal was the most influential state in the region of Tabal, the broader region included several other states (such as Atuna, Ištuanda, Šinuḫtu, and Tuwana) which were not part of the kingdom of Tabal and whose relevance to the history of the region do not fit with that of the kingdom proper.
The same situation pertains with
Arzawa, where we cope with both Arzawa region and Arzawa kingdom within a single article. Given that the text of
Tabal (region) is nearly identical to the text of this article, it seems like any account of the region ends up revolving around an account of its main kingdom.
Furius (
talk)
11:21, 10 March 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Furius: In general, I would oppose the merger of region and state pages if they are/were not identical with each other, and I would extend this to Arzawa too, although I don't presently plan to split that page.
I am reworking the pages to make their content more relevant to their specific subjects without creating excessive overlap. It will take some days, but I would ask you to have a look at the end result and then let me know if this would be acceptable to you.
Antiquistik (
talk)
14:53, 23 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Everything that you write is excellent, so this is a fantastic outcome. I withdraw the merge proposal; I've added a hatnote to this article; could you add a reciprocal one to
Tabal (region).
Furius (
talk)
16:37, 23 March 2024 (UTC)reply