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The following large and apparently well-sourced passage was deleted a month or so ago with an edit summary claiming it is all "pro-Ukraine propaganda", and it has not yet been reverted. Editors might want to review the deleted material to see if some or all of it should be reinstated, as I can't see a problem:
On May 4, 2022 in Kharkiv Oblast, Ukraine, a T-90M Proryv-3 was destroyed in action, the first confirmed destroyed in the war. [12] [13] The tank, which appeared near Kharkiv on April 25, was destroyed by soldiers of the 127th Territorial Defence Brigade [14] [15] using a Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle. On September 18 in Kharkiv Oblast, Ukraine, a T-90M was captured - the first confirmed in the war. [16] [17] As of December 4, a second T-90M had been captured by the Ukrainian Army. [18] As of the May 3 2023, at least seven T-90S export variant had been lost whilst in Russian service. [19]
The captured tank was investigated by Ukrainian tank designers who described it as "not different from T-72B", with the primary difference being fire control system largely built on parts imported in bypass of Western sanctions. [20]
Social media has been littered with photos of destroyed Russian tanks with cages. The images have acquired a symbolic resonance so quickly that Internet users have coined the term "cope cage", earning a page on the Internet's primary meme directory.
They have indeed been mockingly dubbed by Western analysts as "emotional support armour" or "cope cages". Superficially, they are an example of what is known in military circles as field-expedient armour—in other words, stuff that has been added to vehicles after they have entered service.
(From Hungarian) the improvised armour on the tower, referred to as ... "cope cage" ... to protect the combat vehicles from drone missiles or armor-piercing rockets coming from above.
These are colloquially termed "cope cages" by various communities on the internet. Of course, they will do little to minimise the impact from a missile, but they do demonstrate that Russian soldiers are fearful of the threat the missiles present.
Russian soldiers' futile use of pine logs as makeshift protection on logistical trucks and attaching overhead 'cope cages' to their tanks, it's nothing short of tragic. But their commanders' failures to adapt before entering them into such a conflict is criminal.
"The advantage Russian tanks have is that they're super small and very low, making them easy to hide. When you start doubling the height, you're getting rid of some of the advantages of the vehicle", Crump said. The cages also make it harder for the crew to get in and out of the vehicles, according to Crump.
Another idea is that the cages are a response to the conflict in 2020 between Armenia and Azerbaijan, over Nagorno-Karabakh, in which large numbers of Russian-made Armenian tanks were destroyed from above by MAM-Ls ... A third possibility is that the cages are meant as protection against RPGs ... which are being fired at tanks from above. This ... is a preferred tactic in urban warfare, where buildings offer shooters the necessary elevation.
Ces structures approximatives sont ce qu'il est devenu coutumier d'appeler des cope cages en anglais ... Elles sont le résultat des observations par l'armée russe du conflit opposant Azerbaïdjan et Arménie dans le Haut-Karabakh.[It has become customary to call these makeshift structures "cope cages" in English... They are the result of observations made by the Russian army towards the conflict between Azerbaijan and Armenia in Nagorno-Karabakh.]
The lack of uniformity of the cages, and the fact that they are only seen on some tanks, shows that Russian units are largely improvising them
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
BobFromBrockley ( talk) 14:10, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
I just wrote what is contained in the sources. I just updated the page's content (which is relied on a source from 2022 while the situation has obviously changed) using only reliable Western sources. XANTHO GENOS 5.5.2024 ( talk) 12:02, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
The article doesnt really explain T-90 was the T-72BU re-labelled, to remove this latest variant from the taint of the T-72s poor survivability in combat. It was originally to be renamed the T-88 (contraction of the internal design program); the designation T-90 was eventually adotped to imply it was the first 'new' tank design of the nineties. source: Zaloga: "T-90 Standard Tank" LoatesyJnr ( talk) 13:02, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
Draft:Turtle Tank Destroyer (T-72/T-90 Variant) 2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:4122:2B26:8AD8:6B73 ( talk) 16:03, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
This should be in the article somewhere: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2024/05/24/spinning-turret-syndrome-the-disastrous-bug-in-russias-most-modern-tank/?sh=4f4b9ee21ec0 Victor Grigas ( talk) 11:44, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
T-90 article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2Auto-archiving period: 28 days
![]() |
![]() | This article has been
mentioned by a media organization:
|
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The following large and apparently well-sourced passage was deleted a month or so ago with an edit summary claiming it is all "pro-Ukraine propaganda", and it has not yet been reverted. Editors might want to review the deleted material to see if some or all of it should be reinstated, as I can't see a problem:
On May 4, 2022 in Kharkiv Oblast, Ukraine, a T-90M Proryv-3 was destroyed in action, the first confirmed destroyed in the war. [12] [13] The tank, which appeared near Kharkiv on April 25, was destroyed by soldiers of the 127th Territorial Defence Brigade [14] [15] using a Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle. On September 18 in Kharkiv Oblast, Ukraine, a T-90M was captured - the first confirmed in the war. [16] [17] As of December 4, a second T-90M had been captured by the Ukrainian Army. [18] As of the May 3 2023, at least seven T-90S export variant had been lost whilst in Russian service. [19]
The captured tank was investigated by Ukrainian tank designers who described it as "not different from T-72B", with the primary difference being fire control system largely built on parts imported in bypass of Western sanctions. [20]
Social media has been littered with photos of destroyed Russian tanks with cages. The images have acquired a symbolic resonance so quickly that Internet users have coined the term "cope cage", earning a page on the Internet's primary meme directory.
They have indeed been mockingly dubbed by Western analysts as "emotional support armour" or "cope cages". Superficially, they are an example of what is known in military circles as field-expedient armour—in other words, stuff that has been added to vehicles after they have entered service.
(From Hungarian) the improvised armour on the tower, referred to as ... "cope cage" ... to protect the combat vehicles from drone missiles or armor-piercing rockets coming from above.
These are colloquially termed "cope cages" by various communities on the internet. Of course, they will do little to minimise the impact from a missile, but they do demonstrate that Russian soldiers are fearful of the threat the missiles present.
Russian soldiers' futile use of pine logs as makeshift protection on logistical trucks and attaching overhead 'cope cages' to their tanks, it's nothing short of tragic. But their commanders' failures to adapt before entering them into such a conflict is criminal.
"The advantage Russian tanks have is that they're super small and very low, making them easy to hide. When you start doubling the height, you're getting rid of some of the advantages of the vehicle", Crump said. The cages also make it harder for the crew to get in and out of the vehicles, according to Crump.
Another idea is that the cages are a response to the conflict in 2020 between Armenia and Azerbaijan, over Nagorno-Karabakh, in which large numbers of Russian-made Armenian tanks were destroyed from above by MAM-Ls ... A third possibility is that the cages are meant as protection against RPGs ... which are being fired at tanks from above. This ... is a preferred tactic in urban warfare, where buildings offer shooters the necessary elevation.
Ces structures approximatives sont ce qu'il est devenu coutumier d'appeler des cope cages en anglais ... Elles sont le résultat des observations par l'armée russe du conflit opposant Azerbaïdjan et Arménie dans le Haut-Karabakh.[It has become customary to call these makeshift structures "cope cages" in English... They are the result of observations made by the Russian army towards the conflict between Azerbaijan and Armenia in Nagorno-Karabakh.]
The lack of uniformity of the cages, and the fact that they are only seen on some tanks, shows that Russian units are largely improvising them
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
BobFromBrockley ( talk) 14:10, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
I just wrote what is contained in the sources. I just updated the page's content (which is relied on a source from 2022 while the situation has obviously changed) using only reliable Western sources. XANTHO GENOS 5.5.2024 ( talk) 12:02, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
The article doesnt really explain T-90 was the T-72BU re-labelled, to remove this latest variant from the taint of the T-72s poor survivability in combat. It was originally to be renamed the T-88 (contraction of the internal design program); the designation T-90 was eventually adotped to imply it was the first 'new' tank design of the nineties. source: Zaloga: "T-90 Standard Tank" LoatesyJnr ( talk) 13:02, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
Draft:Turtle Tank Destroyer (T-72/T-90 Variant) 2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:4122:2B26:8AD8:6B73 ( talk) 16:03, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
This should be in the article somewhere: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2024/05/24/spinning-turret-syndrome-the-disastrous-bug-in-russias-most-modern-tank/?sh=4f4b9ee21ec0 Victor Grigas ( talk) 11:44, 25 May 2024 (UTC)