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A synod only meets to discuss the affairs of the Church. It dfoes not meet to discuss affairs of state. The Synod of Cashel met to sort out cettain abuses in the Church in Ireland. None of it's acts refers to the King of England. None of it's acts refers to the overlordship of Ireland by the English King.
The claims about the Bull of Pope Adrian is itself disputed. What is not disputed howver, is that it was not read at the Synod of Cashel. If it was read at all (on the assumption that the Bull was not an English fabrication), it was allegedly read at the so-called Synod of Waterford.
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
21:01, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
It was also decided that in Ireland, all matters relating to religion were to follow the observances of the English church. Some have interpreted this as referring to liturgical practices only; others see it as encompassing more, and therefore being much more fundamental,
especially since it is claimed that the Irish bishops swore fealty to Henry at around this time. Given the absence of Irish sources it is difficult to be sure what the position of the Irish bishops was, either collectively or individually, although we know that they had communicated concerns about the state of the Irish church to Pope Alexander III. But from Henry’s point of view, the synod was a diplomatic success. He was able, through Archdeacon Ralph, to report to the pope on the assistance he had received from the bishops and to have, in return, papal instructions issued to the Irish bishops and kings, instructing them to support his rule
in Ireland.
Errr... What's this? The whole paragraph "Acts wrongly attributed to the Synod" seems to be an answer to "allegations" made by someone (who?), and why are discussing these allegations relevant here? Seems like most of this has to do with Laudabiliter, and AFAIK Gerald never related that to the Synod of Cashel. Is this somehow related to McCormicks Newly-Discovered Historical Facts from 1889??
I was planning to add some info from Holland, Martin (2005). "CASHEL, SYNOD OF II (1172)". in Seán Duffy. Medieval Ireland. An Encyclopedia. Abingdon and New York. pp. 66-67., but it would be useful to know how that paragraph with those supposedly alleged allegations to debatable forgery relates to this before doing so. Finn Rindahl ( talk) 07:20, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
The entire section above would be unnecessary if a single line was erased from the article "It has been suggested that the seventh act of the Synod called upon the clergy and people of Ireland to acknowledge Henry II of England as their king." This line along makes it necessary to get into an argument that the suggestion may be false. Remove the line and the need for contentious refutation is also removed. To re-direct what was written above, "If there is a long historiographical tradition of attributing other acts than those written in the 7 acts, that would be relevant.". And if that is so, then bring along the citations. Encyclopediatic articles should not be polluted with "It has been suggested....". Laurel Lodged ( talk) 22:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
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Was the first Synod of Cashel in 1101 or 1111? Hardly both! Sarah777 ( talk) 23:15, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
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A synod only meets to discuss the affairs of the Church. It dfoes not meet to discuss affairs of state. The Synod of Cashel met to sort out cettain abuses in the Church in Ireland. None of it's acts refers to the King of England. None of it's acts refers to the overlordship of Ireland by the English King.
The claims about the Bull of Pope Adrian is itself disputed. What is not disputed howver, is that it was not read at the Synod of Cashel. If it was read at all (on the assumption that the Bull was not an English fabrication), it was allegedly read at the so-called Synod of Waterford.
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
21:01, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
It was also decided that in Ireland, all matters relating to religion were to follow the observances of the English church. Some have interpreted this as referring to liturgical practices only; others see it as encompassing more, and therefore being much more fundamental,
especially since it is claimed that the Irish bishops swore fealty to Henry at around this time. Given the absence of Irish sources it is difficult to be sure what the position of the Irish bishops was, either collectively or individually, although we know that they had communicated concerns about the state of the Irish church to Pope Alexander III. But from Henry’s point of view, the synod was a diplomatic success. He was able, through Archdeacon Ralph, to report to the pope on the assistance he had received from the bishops and to have, in return, papal instructions issued to the Irish bishops and kings, instructing them to support his rule
in Ireland.
Errr... What's this? The whole paragraph "Acts wrongly attributed to the Synod" seems to be an answer to "allegations" made by someone (who?), and why are discussing these allegations relevant here? Seems like most of this has to do with Laudabiliter, and AFAIK Gerald never related that to the Synod of Cashel. Is this somehow related to McCormicks Newly-Discovered Historical Facts from 1889??
I was planning to add some info from Holland, Martin (2005). "CASHEL, SYNOD OF II (1172)". in Seán Duffy. Medieval Ireland. An Encyclopedia. Abingdon and New York. pp. 66-67., but it would be useful to know how that paragraph with those supposedly alleged allegations to debatable forgery relates to this before doing so. Finn Rindahl ( talk) 07:20, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
The entire section above would be unnecessary if a single line was erased from the article "It has been suggested that the seventh act of the Synod called upon the clergy and people of Ireland to acknowledge Henry II of England as their king." This line along makes it necessary to get into an argument that the suggestion may be false. Remove the line and the need for contentious refutation is also removed. To re-direct what was written above, "If there is a long historiographical tradition of attributing other acts than those written in the 7 acts, that would be relevant.". And if that is so, then bring along the citations. Encyclopediatic articles should not be polluted with "It has been suggested....". Laurel Lodged ( talk) 22:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Synod of Cashel. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 11:25, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
Was the first Synod of Cashel in 1101 or 1111? Hardly both! Sarah777 ( talk) 23:15, 27 November 2019 (UTC)