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Johan Elisson, are you sure this is the conventional or most common English translation of this term? Where did you find it? Uppland 12:38, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
"Knight" is incorrect, as it would be a translation of riddare which is something else. Every warrior on horseback wasn't a knight. My dictionary offers "cavalryman" and "horse-soldier" as translations of kavallerist and "rider" or "horseman" for ryttare. Ryttare is the word most commonly used in Swedish for a cavalryman of this period and even later, as long as the context is clear, but is also general and could mean any civilian on a horse. Uppland 10:18, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
I've skimmed through the article and I will make some copyediting soon enough, but some first impression-comments:
It looks like a pretty good and comprehensive article to me. The system itself is described well and the article appears to be well-written (though perhaps a bit too much Swedish jargon). However, the aspect of the civil impact of the system is not thoroughly described. For example, I seem to recall reading that by the 17th century, with Sweden a major military power, it was still a fairly small country with a small population and limited resources. This required a militarization of Swedish society that was almost unpresedented in Europe at this time ( Prussia hadn't gotten its Prussian reputation yet, I think) and this took its toll. Mind you, I might be exaggerating because I can't recall the exact source, but I know that the Swedish population suffered heavily from the manpower drainage that was caused by the ever-increasing need for bigger armies, especially when combined with periods of bad harvests with resulting starvation, mass death, plague and general misery. What I'm looking for is to put this system into a context other than the just a military one. Just some comments here and there about the situation in Sweden in different periods that for the general population would be enough.
Peter Isotalo 19:32, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
I changed "Unification of Sweden in 1523" to "secession from the Kalmar Union in 1523". While the former description isn't completely incorrect; the country had been divided between anti-Union and pro-Union factions and Vasa did consolidate national power. However the country had been unified in the sense of being one political unit for centuries prior to that. Since the article "Unification of Sweden" (redir to Consolidation of Sweden) refers to that particular process in the 7th-8th centuries, it's a bit misleading. So I changed this to the less ambiguous description of what 1523 meant, leaving the Kalmar Union. -- BluePlatypus 05:58, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I clarified the sentence on the size of the Swedish army to make it clear that it was not the largest army in Europe, only that the allotment system enabled Sweden to keep a higher proportion of its population in service than other European countries. Does anyone object? Osli73 12:04, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Didnt want to make a separate header so I'll just post this here. In the article it says "Secondly, the richest of the men in the rote could always buy their way out, which in turn often led to the "10th man" being the poorest or weakest in the rote, which of course was not good for the army". Would anyone have a reference for this "weakest", as to me it seems that in reality the "10th man" would be one of the strongest, considering that he'd probably be a forest worker, or some other person who does tough manual labour. In turn, the richest would most likely have been the weakest, as they would not do much manual work. I think the "weakest" should be removed, but I didn't do it myself, in case someone could provide a proper reference stating that they were in reality the weakest. -- HJV 18:36, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Ottoman Empire used this system long time before the dates that had given in the "Swedish Allotment System". This leads us to two conclusions; first, years are entered wrong or a second fact may be that, this system was found by Ottoman Turks. We can locate the foundation of this system on timeline to 1400-1481... Before Mehmet II.'s death, Ottoman army made this system a regular attempt to feed its large army. 40,000 in peace time, at least 100,000 in war time. Please, have a look at Turcoman Soldiers for larger information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deliogul ( talk • contribs) 21:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
The other article, Dividing system, seems to deal with the new allotment system instituted by Karl XI, which is already discussed in this article. -- Edward Sandstig 01:08, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
I've been bold and redirected Dividing system to here. That article contained no extra info that was not covered in this article. – Elisson • T • C • 11:21, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I do not think the referencing in this article meets current current FAC standards. Regards, — mattisse ( Talk) 18:09, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
My mother's last name was "Svensk" and I grew up with the story that her great-grandfather had changed it when he went into the army because the original family name was too common. When I visited Sweden and met some of my mother's cousins who knew more about the family history, I found out more. My great-great-grandfather was one of a pair of identical twins who were conscripted into the Swedish army. Their family name was original Björklund (which translates to "Birch grove" in English). The army made them change it. One of the twins adoped the surname Björk (meaning Birch) and the other (my ancestor) adopted the name Svensk (which means Swede or Swedish). That had to have happened at some point in the 19th century. After they got out of the army, Björk changed his name back to Björklund, but Svensk kept the army name. I have cousins today here in the U.S. with the last name Svensk.
I shared this story with people whom I met in Sweden and they all knew about army names, telling me that whenever you meet a Swede with a one-syllable last name, it's usually one of those army names. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Toddabearsf ( talk • contribs) 00:51, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
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![]() | Allotment system is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | |||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on April 28, 2006. | |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Former featured article |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Johan Elisson, are you sure this is the conventional or most common English translation of this term? Where did you find it? Uppland 12:38, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
"Knight" is incorrect, as it would be a translation of riddare which is something else. Every warrior on horseback wasn't a knight. My dictionary offers "cavalryman" and "horse-soldier" as translations of kavallerist and "rider" or "horseman" for ryttare. Ryttare is the word most commonly used in Swedish for a cavalryman of this period and even later, as long as the context is clear, but is also general and could mean any civilian on a horse. Uppland 10:18, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
I've skimmed through the article and I will make some copyediting soon enough, but some first impression-comments:
It looks like a pretty good and comprehensive article to me. The system itself is described well and the article appears to be well-written (though perhaps a bit too much Swedish jargon). However, the aspect of the civil impact of the system is not thoroughly described. For example, I seem to recall reading that by the 17th century, with Sweden a major military power, it was still a fairly small country with a small population and limited resources. This required a militarization of Swedish society that was almost unpresedented in Europe at this time ( Prussia hadn't gotten its Prussian reputation yet, I think) and this took its toll. Mind you, I might be exaggerating because I can't recall the exact source, but I know that the Swedish population suffered heavily from the manpower drainage that was caused by the ever-increasing need for bigger armies, especially when combined with periods of bad harvests with resulting starvation, mass death, plague and general misery. What I'm looking for is to put this system into a context other than the just a military one. Just some comments here and there about the situation in Sweden in different periods that for the general population would be enough.
Peter Isotalo 19:32, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
I changed "Unification of Sweden in 1523" to "secession from the Kalmar Union in 1523". While the former description isn't completely incorrect; the country had been divided between anti-Union and pro-Union factions and Vasa did consolidate national power. However the country had been unified in the sense of being one political unit for centuries prior to that. Since the article "Unification of Sweden" (redir to Consolidation of Sweden) refers to that particular process in the 7th-8th centuries, it's a bit misleading. So I changed this to the less ambiguous description of what 1523 meant, leaving the Kalmar Union. -- BluePlatypus 05:58, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I clarified the sentence on the size of the Swedish army to make it clear that it was not the largest army in Europe, only that the allotment system enabled Sweden to keep a higher proportion of its population in service than other European countries. Does anyone object? Osli73 12:04, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Didnt want to make a separate header so I'll just post this here. In the article it says "Secondly, the richest of the men in the rote could always buy their way out, which in turn often led to the "10th man" being the poorest or weakest in the rote, which of course was not good for the army". Would anyone have a reference for this "weakest", as to me it seems that in reality the "10th man" would be one of the strongest, considering that he'd probably be a forest worker, or some other person who does tough manual labour. In turn, the richest would most likely have been the weakest, as they would not do much manual work. I think the "weakest" should be removed, but I didn't do it myself, in case someone could provide a proper reference stating that they were in reality the weakest. -- HJV 18:36, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Ottoman Empire used this system long time before the dates that had given in the "Swedish Allotment System". This leads us to two conclusions; first, years are entered wrong or a second fact may be that, this system was found by Ottoman Turks. We can locate the foundation of this system on timeline to 1400-1481... Before Mehmet II.'s death, Ottoman army made this system a regular attempt to feed its large army. 40,000 in peace time, at least 100,000 in war time. Please, have a look at Turcoman Soldiers for larger information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deliogul ( talk • contribs) 21:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
The other article, Dividing system, seems to deal with the new allotment system instituted by Karl XI, which is already discussed in this article. -- Edward Sandstig 01:08, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
I've been bold and redirected Dividing system to here. That article contained no extra info that was not covered in this article. – Elisson • T • C • 11:21, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I do not think the referencing in this article meets current current FAC standards. Regards, — mattisse ( Talk) 18:09, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
My mother's last name was "Svensk" and I grew up with the story that her great-grandfather had changed it when he went into the army because the original family name was too common. When I visited Sweden and met some of my mother's cousins who knew more about the family history, I found out more. My great-great-grandfather was one of a pair of identical twins who were conscripted into the Swedish army. Their family name was original Björklund (which translates to "Birch grove" in English). The army made them change it. One of the twins adoped the surname Björk (meaning Birch) and the other (my ancestor) adopted the name Svensk (which means Swede or Swedish). That had to have happened at some point in the 19th century. After they got out of the army, Björk changed his name back to Björklund, but Svensk kept the army name. I have cousins today here in the U.S. with the last name Svensk.
I shared this story with people whom I met in Sweden and they all knew about army names, telling me that whenever you meet a Swede with a one-syllable last name, it's usually one of those army names. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Toddabearsf ( talk • contribs) 00:51, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Allotment system. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.algonet.se/~hogman/slsoldat_2.htmWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:52, 2 July 2017 (UTC)