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I’ve moved this to Swabian Alps per
WP:UE.
The English name for this place is the Swabian Alps, the German is Schwäbische Alb; the title "Swabian Alb" is a nonsense.
And an alb is
something a priest would wear.
Moonraker12 (
talk)
08:28, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
dsadscassafcasdcsadcasdcvadcadv
And I’ve deleted this;
“Note that the translation "Swabian Alps" is incorrect, since these mountains are not part of the
Alps, though the words "Alb" and "Alps" are of the same etymological origin. The Alps (die Alpen) is plural, whereas the Alb (die Alb) is singular”
This is not a translation, so it is not “incorrect” at all; this is the name in English for this place. Like “The Alps” is the English name for die Alpen: And Danube is the English for Donau.
Moonraker12 (
talk)
08:59, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Both of the above two comments are nonsense. The deleted sentence "Note that...." was perfectly correct and should be restored. The title of the article should also be changed accordingly. "Swabian Alps" is quite absurd. No one in the region makes any connection between this and the Alps. "Schwäbische" is "Swabian" in English, and "Alb" has no English equivalent: the usual procedure in such a case is to translate what's translatable and leave what isn't. All the locally produced publicity in English calls it the Swabian Alb. Escoville ( talk) 10:23, 17 September 2010 (UTC) Hence I've restored the term "Swabian Alb" throughout. Escoville ( talk) 10:52, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
See Alps#Etymology -- Schwab7000 ( talk) 16:04, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Quite a lot of this article (e.g. on the dialect) appears to be about Swabia, and not the Swabian Alb, which is only a part of the region. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Escoville ( talk • contribs) 10:54, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Alsop, "The dialect at the top of the plateau (German: Albschwäbisch) is markedly different from, and stronger than, even the broadest Swabian of the lowland areas. " is pretty nonsensical, linguistically. The relative "strength" of dialects is something that would need to be established with reliable references, which would not be easy to find in actual linguistic literature. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.58.219.74 ( talk) 21:37, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
It says that Stetten am kalten Markt is known to be the coldest spot in Germany. I'm originally from the region and I heard of no such thing. When I thoroughly searched the internet for that particular information I didn't find the slightest evidence to support this fact. There might be a microclimate that is responsible for a slight temperature difference between Stetten and other nearby regions, but this is certainly by far not the coldest spot in Germany. The temperature record for Stetten is -32.6°C on March 1st 2005. A the same time the station in Albstadt-Degerfeld (which is about 6 miles away) had -36.1°C. And also on that very day the station at Funtensee (Bavaria) had -43,6°C. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.181.92.16 ( talk) 09:20, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
There seems to be a certain amount of unsubstantiated nonsense about the character of the people of the region on this page. Can these 'character traits' be substantiated? It largely amounts to stereotypes - some of which might be considered positive, some derogatory eg tightfistedness. Geopersona ( talk) 08:12, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Swabian Jura Mike Cline ( talk) 17:40, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
Swabian Alps →
Swabian Alb/Jura –This region cannot correctly be called the "Swabian Alps" in English. Firstly, geographically, the region is not part of the Alps, despite its proximity. Secondly, linguistically, "die Alb" in German is a singular proper noun; it is not the singular of "Alpen", which is a different word, and should not be translated as "Alps" in English. The best we can do is to translate it as "Swabian Alb" or "Jura" or "Swabian Mountains"; in fact, ANYTHING but "Alps"! If the region is referred to as "the Swabian Alps" in English then this is erroneous, no matter how common it may be.
I agree with Escoville in the Translation discussion above. I think most Germans would laugh at the "Alps" translation. After this change ALL references to Swabian Alps should be changed to "Alb" or "Jura". It is possible to state in the article that the term Alps is erroneous and say why. A re-direct link from "Swabian Alps" to "Swabian Alb/Jura" should satisfy anyone who may have heard this region wrongly called Alps by Anglo-Saxon tourist boards. See also http://en.s-alb.de/ Jonathan Mays ( talk) 00:06, 20 February 2012 (UTC) Jonathan Mays ( talk) 00:06, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Postscript: the proposal was refined on 24 February as a result of the discussion thus far. The amendment, rationale and responses are here. Moonraker12 ( talk) 10:30, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Swabian Alps to
Swabian Jura
Following on from the discussion above, it is suggested this RM is refined to this option,as it is technically more correct and is less confusing for newcomers to the subject. It is also a
common name in English, and avoids the complications of the term "Swabian Alb" in English. Comments on this are invited.
Moonraker12 (
talk)
21:29, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
I can only marvel at how a perfectly straightforward consultation yielded that "Swabian Alb" is the most common name, only to be diverted by a completely misguided argument on "correctness" and "Denglish". Seriously? Where to begin.
"Denglish" doesn't enter into it, if anything it is about German loanwords in English. I am sure the perfectly educated authors using "Alp" for 150 years [1] will be glad to corrected by a random guy from the 21st century that their usage has been "incorrect" all the time. We should also urgently tell Oxford Dictionaries that they are wrong, never mind their evidence going back to Middle English, as "Moonraker12" has decreed that "the word 'Alps' doesn’t have a singular in English". "Swabian Jura" does seem to get some use (unsurprisingly, mostly in geological contexts), but what we have here is another illustration of random prescriptionism trumping toponomastic evidence, showing how our "renaming" process is broken. -- dab (𒁳) 09:14, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
The section on the dialect of the area quite rightly states that the Swabian of the Alb is different to lowland Swabian. However, it then goes on to detail some linguistic characteristics that are general to all varieties of Swabian. Shouldn't these be removed, and replaced by features that are unique to the Alb? Jonathan Mays ( talk) 23:26, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Have moved the linguistic references mentioned above to the main article on Swabian German, pending some specific examples of the Alb varieties of Swabian that contrast with lowland Swabian. Jonathan Mays ( talk) 23:21, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Each year, it loses approximately 5 cm (2.0 in).
This value seems way too high. Is there a reference supporting this value?
[4] (local newspaper article) gives 2 millimetres per year: "Pro Jahr weicht dieses Mittelgebirge deshalb durchschnittlich um knapp zwei Millimeter zurück." I am changing the passage accordingly. -- KlausFoehl ( talk) 14:52, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | It is requested that a map or maps be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Wikipedians in Germany may be able to help! |
I’ve moved this to Swabian Alps per
WP:UE.
The English name for this place is the Swabian Alps, the German is Schwäbische Alb; the title "Swabian Alb" is a nonsense.
And an alb is
something a priest would wear.
Moonraker12 (
talk)
08:28, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
dsadscassafcasdcsadcasdcvadcadv
And I’ve deleted this;
“Note that the translation "Swabian Alps" is incorrect, since these mountains are not part of the
Alps, though the words "Alb" and "Alps" are of the same etymological origin. The Alps (die Alpen) is plural, whereas the Alb (die Alb) is singular”
This is not a translation, so it is not “incorrect” at all; this is the name in English for this place. Like “The Alps” is the English name for die Alpen: And Danube is the English for Donau.
Moonraker12 (
talk)
08:59, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Both of the above two comments are nonsense. The deleted sentence "Note that...." was perfectly correct and should be restored. The title of the article should also be changed accordingly. "Swabian Alps" is quite absurd. No one in the region makes any connection between this and the Alps. "Schwäbische" is "Swabian" in English, and "Alb" has no English equivalent: the usual procedure in such a case is to translate what's translatable and leave what isn't. All the locally produced publicity in English calls it the Swabian Alb. Escoville ( talk) 10:23, 17 September 2010 (UTC) Hence I've restored the term "Swabian Alb" throughout. Escoville ( talk) 10:52, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
See Alps#Etymology -- Schwab7000 ( talk) 16:04, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Quite a lot of this article (e.g. on the dialect) appears to be about Swabia, and not the Swabian Alb, which is only a part of the region. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Escoville ( talk • contribs) 10:54, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Alsop, "The dialect at the top of the plateau (German: Albschwäbisch) is markedly different from, and stronger than, even the broadest Swabian of the lowland areas. " is pretty nonsensical, linguistically. The relative "strength" of dialects is something that would need to be established with reliable references, which would not be easy to find in actual linguistic literature. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.58.219.74 ( talk) 21:37, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
It says that Stetten am kalten Markt is known to be the coldest spot in Germany. I'm originally from the region and I heard of no such thing. When I thoroughly searched the internet for that particular information I didn't find the slightest evidence to support this fact. There might be a microclimate that is responsible for a slight temperature difference between Stetten and other nearby regions, but this is certainly by far not the coldest spot in Germany. The temperature record for Stetten is -32.6°C on March 1st 2005. A the same time the station in Albstadt-Degerfeld (which is about 6 miles away) had -36.1°C. And also on that very day the station at Funtensee (Bavaria) had -43,6°C. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.181.92.16 ( talk) 09:20, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
There seems to be a certain amount of unsubstantiated nonsense about the character of the people of the region on this page. Can these 'character traits' be substantiated? It largely amounts to stereotypes - some of which might be considered positive, some derogatory eg tightfistedness. Geopersona ( talk) 08:12, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Swabian Jura Mike Cline ( talk) 17:40, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
Swabian Alps →
Swabian Alb/Jura –This region cannot correctly be called the "Swabian Alps" in English. Firstly, geographically, the region is not part of the Alps, despite its proximity. Secondly, linguistically, "die Alb" in German is a singular proper noun; it is not the singular of "Alpen", which is a different word, and should not be translated as "Alps" in English. The best we can do is to translate it as "Swabian Alb" or "Jura" or "Swabian Mountains"; in fact, ANYTHING but "Alps"! If the region is referred to as "the Swabian Alps" in English then this is erroneous, no matter how common it may be.
I agree with Escoville in the Translation discussion above. I think most Germans would laugh at the "Alps" translation. After this change ALL references to Swabian Alps should be changed to "Alb" or "Jura". It is possible to state in the article that the term Alps is erroneous and say why. A re-direct link from "Swabian Alps" to "Swabian Alb/Jura" should satisfy anyone who may have heard this region wrongly called Alps by Anglo-Saxon tourist boards. See also http://en.s-alb.de/ Jonathan Mays ( talk) 00:06, 20 February 2012 (UTC) Jonathan Mays ( talk) 00:06, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Postscript: the proposal was refined on 24 February as a result of the discussion thus far. The amendment, rationale and responses are here. Moonraker12 ( talk) 10:30, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Swabian Alps to
Swabian Jura
Following on from the discussion above, it is suggested this RM is refined to this option,as it is technically more correct and is less confusing for newcomers to the subject. It is also a
common name in English, and avoids the complications of the term "Swabian Alb" in English. Comments on this are invited.
Moonraker12 (
talk)
21:29, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
I can only marvel at how a perfectly straightforward consultation yielded that "Swabian Alb" is the most common name, only to be diverted by a completely misguided argument on "correctness" and "Denglish". Seriously? Where to begin.
"Denglish" doesn't enter into it, if anything it is about German loanwords in English. I am sure the perfectly educated authors using "Alp" for 150 years [1] will be glad to corrected by a random guy from the 21st century that their usage has been "incorrect" all the time. We should also urgently tell Oxford Dictionaries that they are wrong, never mind their evidence going back to Middle English, as "Moonraker12" has decreed that "the word 'Alps' doesn’t have a singular in English". "Swabian Jura" does seem to get some use (unsurprisingly, mostly in geological contexts), but what we have here is another illustration of random prescriptionism trumping toponomastic evidence, showing how our "renaming" process is broken. -- dab (𒁳) 09:14, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
The section on the dialect of the area quite rightly states that the Swabian of the Alb is different to lowland Swabian. However, it then goes on to detail some linguistic characteristics that are general to all varieties of Swabian. Shouldn't these be removed, and replaced by features that are unique to the Alb? Jonathan Mays ( talk) 23:26, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Have moved the linguistic references mentioned above to the main article on Swabian German, pending some specific examples of the Alb varieties of Swabian that contrast with lowland Swabian. Jonathan Mays ( talk) 23:21, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Each year, it loses approximately 5 cm (2.0 in).
This value seems way too high. Is there a reference supporting this value?
[4] (local newspaper article) gives 2 millimetres per year: "Pro Jahr weicht dieses Mittelgebirge deshalb durchschnittlich um knapp zwei Millimeter zurück." I am changing the passage accordingly. -- KlausFoehl ( talk) 14:52, 24 July 2013 (UTC)