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Archive 1 |
I've heard that surgeons have to retire at 60 years-old because they can't keep their hands perfectly still anymore at that age. Is this true? It seems to make sense, older people do seem to have this problem. If this is true, I think it warrants inclusion on this page.
Answer: No, this is not true. Obviously some older people may have this problem, but others will not. In the United States, the Age Discrimination in Employment law prevents forced retirement of older surgeon-employees at hospitals, etc., at some specified age, provided they can continue to do their job, with or without "accommodation." In fact, one "young" surgeon (about 50 years old at the time) had a nervous breakdown in the middle of surgery and walked out, leaving his assistant to finish. While that has nothing to do with wobbly/shakey hands, it does show there are other things for a patient to worry about.
Another answer: No, as a pre-med student, some of the finest surgeons I have met are considered "old". They are extremely skilled and experienced. Think of it this way; have you ever tried to hold your hands perfectly still? No matter how hard you try, gravity will make your hands shake no matter how old you are. Even with mild tremors, an experienced surgeon will still be as effective as he/she was when at a younger age.
Another point - Robotic surgery has made slight tremors less of an issue for surgeons regardless of age. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dj321 ( talk • contribs) 01:41, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
"The first surgeons were battlefield doctors in the Napoleonic Wars". This seems improbable. The article itself hints that there were surgeons already in antiquity.
S.
Yes, this is a wrong assertion. Even the ancient egyptians practiced successful brain surgery. Successful,in that their patients survived the procedures, at least sometimes. One ancient skull shows three healed trepannings, with rounded edges, and one fresh trepanning, with recent, square edges, indicating the patient died during, or soon after, surgery.
Where is Ben Carson on your list of noted surgeons?! What about Levi Watkins, the Cardiovascular surgeon?! And what about the surgical pioneer--the first surgeon to successfully perform open-heart surgery on a patient--Dr. Daniel Hale Williams? Your list is corrupt and incomplete
Wouldn't many surgeons object to surgery being called a sub-branch of medicine? In hospitals medicine and surgery are the two largest branchs of healthcare (with say occupational health, alternative healthcare etc being the others). BozMo (talk)
Inserted modern to clarify that Napolean's battlefield doctors were not the first surgeons...for surgery is an ancient practice dating back to prehistorical times, as the archeological evidence shows. icut4u
Actually, it turns out this is a gray area. It depends on how you define surgery, in an operating theatre with an intent to heal. Surgery was primarily done at the location of the patient and as a last resort or kind of experiment, up to the 1840's. Until then it was considered extremely painful and a shot in the dark. Winning the lottery had better chances than surgery, because of infection. So the Napoleonic Wars were really the first period where you could speak of 'an operating theatre' where the patients were brought to the surgeon, and he was helped by assistents and/or nurses. Amputation had a poor survival rate due to gangrene, but some did survive to fight another day. Before this, the 'surgeon' was a man with dental skills (pulling teeth), childbirth (caesarians ended in the death of the mother) skills, or blood letting. Jane 15:42, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
As you say it depends on how you define surgery...Amputations were performed well before the Napoleonic Wars with patients being brought to the doctor so in that sense surgery probably has been performed since egyptian days or earlier. Homish 01:12, 29 January 2007 (ADST)
The Practice and reputation section is full of non-NPOV and either needs to be brought up to encyclopaedic standard or removed. -- Daveb 14:26, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
I'm not really happy with the current list of surgeons just growing unchecked; my opinion is that every Joe Random Surgeon gets added to the list, without any basis for notoriety. I'm not sure how to approach it, though — can we maybe agree on some criteria to list people, or maybe only keep it down to (say) 5 or so really notable and/or historic surgeons? Wikipedia isn't a list dump. Dewet 16:15, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
Why are only the obstetric ones listed here? I am curious what the other most common procedures are...
"Researchers have also uncovered an Ancient Egyptian mandible, dated to approximately 2750 BC, having two perforations just below the root of the first molar, indicating the draining of an abscessed tooth." - I'm sure I read something in a New Scientist recently about Ancient Egyptian dentistry being massively over-estimated, and that apparent evidence of surgery was in fact just an abscess having increased in size, or similar. Anyone want a look? I think it might have been in the 'Histories' section... -- HiddenInPlainSight 09:56, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
This page has a lot about what one might call the social side of surgery, history, accomplishments, most common procedures, eminent surgeons etc. It lacks the scientific side of surgery - what do surgeons actually do and how do they make decisions. On the Talk:Orthopedic surgery page I have posted a template for description of ortho conditions and another for description of ortho procedures. They indicate how orthopaedic surgeons organize their thinking about their subject. Are they relevant here? Are these templates more widely applicable to surgery subjects? Have I missed finding a well accepted wiki template for these subjects? -- Mylesclough 03:38, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
I have requested a peer review for the article on Michael Woodruff, a pioneering transplant surgeon. I'm looking for as much feedback and this page seemed like a good place to find people interested in the subject. So, if anyone reading this would please participate at Wikipedia:Peer review/Michael Woodruff/archive1 it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much. Cool3 18:35, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Public domain pictures and diagrams of many forms of surgery are available on the NIH NCI website. See:
Hope that helps, — Catherine\ talk 04:39, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
This citation does not refer to the Ancient India. Drilling and cleaning teeth 9000 years ago (which stopped 1500 years later) apparently predated the Indus Valley Civilization (c.3000 BC) by some 4000 years. ( Igny 15:16, 30 September 2006 (UTC))
I have removed the following paragraph, waiting for a clarification and references. I also added citation needed throughout the text.
Is there such thing as a Prosthetic Surgeon? A surgeon that deals mainly with all forms of prosthesis? Zachorious 12:02, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Some surgeons perform a lot of amputations, and have to prepare a suitable stump to take a prosthesis: they are often vascular or trauma specialists, rather than orthopaedic surgeons. Most of the medical practitioners involved with amputees are not surgeons, but specialists in rehabilitation medicine, known in the USA as "physiatrists." Modern prostheses are no longer carved from wood, and may incorporate advanced technology: the technicians ("prosthetists") who make or modify them are qualified to degree level. Bio-engineers are also involved. NRPanikker 02:11, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Circumcision is listed among the most common non-obstetric surgeries. That contradicts the very definition of the word:
As such, circumcision can not be listed among surgeries. It is a "treatment" to injure as much as phlebotomy or trepanation -- that is, it actually causes an injure. Circumcision is, in fact, a mutilation, that is:
- Stormwatch 04:20, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Circumcision should be removed for another reason: You do not need to be trained or educated to do it, see this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=llxSytDu0ek -- Validside 05:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
In many cases, cosmetic surgery treats neither a disease nor an injury. Removal of duplicate organs from a live person for transplant involvers surgery, but is not a treatment for that person. Many biopsies are done for the sake of diagnosis, but are not treatment in themselves. The definition of surgery may need to be expanded. H Padleckas 05:03, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
LouisBB 15:29, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
A simple google search reveals the following fathers of surgery.
Do we need an article about that? ( Igny 16:26, 3 December 2006 (UTC))
Person who chooses Surgery, should be hardworking.
History is a small part of the topic of "surgery" as a whole - theres a lot to be said on surgery that isn't history. This really deserves its own article. So I've split off History of surgery and summarised it here in summary style.
Obviously now it's created it needs more material added :) FT2 ( Talk | email) 10:55, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Although the existing sections in this Surgery article are good, even the fundamentals of modern surgery are hardly covered in this article. Surgery is an important and rather broad topic in modern medicine. I think this article can and should be greatly expanded to cover an overview of modern surgery. Previously Surgeon redirected to this article. Two former sections called "Surgeon titles" and "Noted surgeons" were only about surgeons, not about surgery itself. In order to make room for such an expansion of this Surgery article to cover the topic of surgery itself, I moved these two sections out of this Surgery article to a new article I formed called Surgeon.
Before I moved about 3600 bytes of this article to the new
Surgeon article, this article was about 15700 bytes long. It is now about 12100 bytes long. A maximum article length of about 32 KB or less has been mentioned as desirable, although articles can exceed this length. The new surgeon article is not very long, less than 4000 bytes. Either before or after my move to form the new
Surgeon article, I now concede there was enough room for a significant expansion of the
Surgery article, which I really think would be a good idea. If anybody thinks this move should be reversed, go ahead and recombine
Surgeon with
Surgery. We would still have about 15 - 16 kB for a serious expansion of this
Surgery article.
H Padleckas
09:39, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
The previous wording read that surgeons are usually physicians. To an Australian physician (sensu stricto) trained in the British terminology, this sounded like a contradiction in terms. Outside North America, the English word 'physician' still retains its older meaning of specialist in internal medicne (archaic = 'physic'). I have edited the entry on physician to this effect. Hence I substituted the more lengthy but quite neutral phrase 'medical practitioner'. However, clicking on this term still redirects to the article on physician.
There is also nothing in this article about the old division of the profession, and that surgeons & physicians once were clearly regarded as separate occupations. The Hippocratic oath enjoins its takers, in the 4th last paragraph, not to cut for the stone (ie, don't do surgery, probably for bladder stones); that is, at the time of the school of Hippocrates, surgery was a separate craft! Maybe the article could do with a note to this effect. --DavidB 12:49, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
The Hippocratic prohibition is not for surgery in general, but specifically for lithotomy, since there was a specific profession limited to that procedure: much as dentistry became later. NRPanikker 02:19, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Podiatrists also perform surgery..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.176.131 ( talk) 09:40, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Link to current
Talk:Surgery
Link to current
Talk:Surgeon
Circumcision is listed among the most common non-obstetric surgeries. That contradicts the very definition of the word:
As such, circumcision can not be listed among surgeries. It is a "treatment" to injure as much as phlebotomy or trepanation -- that is, it actually causes an injure. Circumcision is, in fact, a mutilation, that is:
- Stormwatch 04:20, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Circumcision should be removed for another reason: You do not need to be trained or educated to do it, see this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=llxSytDu0ek -- Validside 05:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
In many cases, cosmetic surgery treats neither a disease nor an injury. Removal of duplicate organs from a live person for transplant involvers surgery, but is not a treatment for that person. Many biopsies are done for the sake of diagnosis, but are not treatment in themselves. The definition of surgery may need to be expanded. H Padleckas 05:03, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
LouisBB 15:29, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
A simple google search reveals the following fathers of surgery.
Do we need an article about that? ( Igny 16:26, 3 December 2006 (UTC))
Person who chooses Surgery, should be hardworking.
History is a small part of the topic of "surgery" as a whole - theres a lot to be said on surgery that isn't history. This really deserves its own article. So I've split off History of surgery and summarised it here in summary style.
Obviously now it's created it needs more material added :) FT2 ( Talk | email) 10:55, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Although the existing sections in this Surgery article are good, even the fundamentals of modern surgery are hardly covered in this article. Surgery is an important and rather broad topic in modern medicine. I think this article can and should be greatly expanded to cover an overview of modern surgery. Previously Surgeon redirected to this article. Two former sections called "Surgeon titles" and "Noted surgeons" were only about surgeons, not about surgery itself. In order to make room for such an expansion of this Surgery article to cover the topic of surgery itself, I moved these two sections out of this Surgery article to a new article I formed called Surgeon.
Before I moved about 3600 bytes of this article to the new
Surgeon article, this article was about 15700 bytes long. It is now about 12100 bytes long. A maximum article length of about 32 KB or less has been mentioned as desirable, although articles can exceed this length. The new surgeon article is not very long, less than 4000 bytes. Either before or after my move to form the new
Surgeon article, I now concede there was enough room for a significant expansion of the
Surgery article, which I really think would be a good idea. If anybody thinks this move should be reversed, go ahead and recombine
Surgeon with
Surgery. We would still have about 15 - 16 kB for a serious expansion of this
Surgery article.
H Padleckas
09:39, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
The previous wording read that surgeons are usually physicians. To an Australian physician (sensu stricto) trained in the British terminology, this sounded like a contradiction in terms. Outside North America, the English word 'physician' still retains its older meaning of specialist in internal medicne (archaic = 'physic'). I have edited the entry on physician to this effect. Hence I substituted the more lengthy but quite neutral phrase 'medical practitioner'. However, clicking on this term still redirects to the article on physician.
There is also nothing in this article about the old division of the profession, and that surgeons & physicians once were clearly regarded as separate occupations. The Hippocratic oath enjoins its takers, in the 4th last paragraph, not to cut for the stone (ie, don't do surgery, probably for bladder stones); that is, at the time of the school of Hippocrates, surgery was a separate craft! Maybe the article could do with a note to this effect. --DavidB 12:49, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
The Hippocratic prohibition is not for surgery in general, but specifically for lithotomy, since there was a specific profession limited to that procedure: much as dentistry became later. NRPanikker 02:19, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Podiatrists also perform surgery..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.176.131 ( talk) 09:40, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
On Aug. 28-29, 2007, I noticed that the Surgery article was deficient in the practical coverage of modern surgery, but had two sections called "Surgeon titles" and "Noted surgeons" which were not about surgery itself but only about surgeons. At that time, Surgeon redirected to Surgery meaning that the article covered both topics. On this Talk page, WikiProject Medicine rated Surgery as "Start-Class" on the quality assessment scale, meaning it could use significant further development. In order to make room for a significant expansion of Surgery which is a broad topic in itself, I divided the article into separate Surgery and Surgeon articles. I moved the two sections about surgeons ("Surgeon titles" and "Noted surgeons") to the new Surgeon article. I noted on this Talk page under Division into Surgery and Surgeon articles that I had so divided the article. On Aug. 30, 2007, I then wrote small sections called "Surgery article" on both the WikiProject Medicine Talk and WikiProject Clinical medicine Talk pages saying that the Surgery article was inadequate in the describing modern surgery and asked if anyone was working on expanding the Surgery article. The only response I received was from User:MastCell saying that I should "go for it" (and a link to " be bold"), effectively suggesting that I expand the article myself. After practically two months of waiting for someone to address the problem, no one had done anything of real substance.
I went ahead and wrote an expansion for Surgery in the form of a new section I call "Overview of modern surgery", which I uploaded to the article on Oct. 30, 2007. On Nov. 2, 2007, I expanded/clarified the Surgery introductory section. For now, I'm finished with the introductory section and almost finished with "Overview of modern surgery". I would like to note there is already a separate History of surgery article, so further expansion on the History of surgery can be done there. The "History" (of surgery) section in the Surgery article is well-developed, perhaps even longer than necessary, particularly since there already is a History of surgery article. About 5 kB remain in Surgery for further expansion until reaching the desirable but non-binding 32 kB limit. It is not possible to cover all aspects and types of surgery in depth in 32 kB and it is not my intention to do so. Instead, Surgery covers fundamentals common to multiple types of Surgery and serves as a tie-together article containing links to more specific topic articles on surgery, where details on specific kinds of surgery can be covered in depth.
I think the revised Surgery article, which covers a high-importance topic in medicine, will soon be ready for a peer review. Review of Surgery could even start now. Upon finishing a peer review, Surgery could be re-assessed to a higher rating by the WikiProject. When I get a chance, perhaps towards the end of November, I plan to archive much of this Talk page to Talk:Surgery or Surgeon/ Archive since it is getting a bit long and many discussions are old and moot or relevant only to Surgeons. The Talk:Surgeon page will also have a link to it. H Padleckas 06:01, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
The article says: Anesthesia is administered to prevent pain from incision, other tissue cutting and suturing, etc. Although in theory it may sometimes be possible to operate without anesthesia, in most surgeries the pain would be unbearable and a patient would not hold sufficiently still for a surgeon to precisely operate.
Circumcision is listed in the article as a surgery. Infant male circumcision is routinely performed with no anesthesia, which seems to contradict the quoted section above. Does anyone have suggestions as to how we can bring the quote in line with reality in light of this fact? It seems horrifying to say "Anesthesia is administered only optionally if the patient is an infant male undergoing circumcision, since strapping the infant down is cheaper and culturally accepted" even though this is the truth. I'm sure someone can come up with a way to fix the quote without making the medical profession look like a bunch of charlatans, so therefore I encourage responses. Thanks! Blackworm ( talk) 18:51, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
This article does not mention immobilization during surgery (when patients are are strapped to the surgical table). It would be nice to know when is it performed and for what reasons. -- 193.198.16.211 ( talk) 16:34, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I would imagine that for the majority of operations where the patient needs to remain still the effect could be achieved with muscles relaxants. However perhaps if this was contraindicated (e.g. in patients suffering from butyrylcholinesterase defficiency) then they could be strapped down. JimBrownish ( talk) 00:53, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Immobilizing a patient during surgery is done for the safety of the patient. The use of safety straps during surgery is similar to the use of seat-belts in a car. Sometimes during surgery the surgical table needs to be tilted to one side, and without the use of a safety strap, gravity could cause the patient to roll off the surgical table. Also as the patient is "waking-up" from anesthesia, they sometimes try to roll onto their side, and on the very narrow surgical table this could result in the patient rolling off the table.-- Daniela T. RN ( talk) 01:27, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
The external link to "Surgery Videos" ( http://www.surgery-sugery.com/lasik-surgery.php) appears to be broken. The latest snapshot for the page on the Wayback Machine was in Feb. '08. Unless there are any objections I think this link should be removed. JakeMul ( talk) 23:46, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
--> Also, in "History" a right square bracket has been omitted, thus having [[Egypt] appear in the text.
Why is this page semi-protected? I couldn't find anything in the talk logs about it.-- Adam in MO Talk 04:30, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Indeed. Can someone advise how to figure out why pages are protected and when they will be unprotected? Is the reason disclosed, or is it, so far as can be determined by a nonparty, simply at the whims of the person protecting? If it isn't policy allready, wouldn't it be a good idea to require the reasons for protection to be stated on the talk page? The protection policy states consensus should be reached regarding the need. How could this ever occur if the reasons for protection are a mystery because the protecting person has failed to provide any information as to why the patge is protected? It seems quite silly, are we supposed to debate imagined reasons and come to consensus on those? Anyways, as their is not noted reason to protect the page, and no reason that appears to require protection, I urge unprotection.-- 24.29.234.88 ( talk) 04:12, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
In the section "Modern Surgery", both the heading "Pain" and the information under it appear twice. Mister Killam ( talk) 05:51, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
The development of nanotechnology has had a noticeable impact on surgery techniques. Perhaps there should be an entry on the topic of nano-surgery which would present these new methods. [12] [13] [14] ADM ( talk) 18:22, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Please note that you cannot say "surgeries" to mean surgical operations/interventions as it is an uncountable noun in this case, see here http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/surgery, so I'm going to modify the three instances of this. That's all folks Captain Screebo ( talk) 23:45, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
(Part of the WikiProject Medicine effort)
A citation or two for the derivation of the term “surgery” would be nice.
Since this article is about the medical specialty (as indicated at the top of the page), there should be a description of what training is required (for example, in medical school and the program, etc.).
A good citation here would be good; see: http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=5603
Principles of aseptic technique should be referenced; see: http://www.surgeryencyclopedia.com/A-Ce/Aseptic-Technique.html
The ASA classification system should be referenced; see: http://www.asahq.org/clinical/physicalstatus.htm
A general surgical reference text may be useful to support the general surgical process. One can be found here: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=node%3D465600&field-keywords=surgery
Reference needed for evidence of surgery in Ancient Egypt; see: http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/timelines/topics/medicine.htm
There should also be citations for evidence of surgery in Ancient India, China, and Greece: see: http://www.unitedindia.com/medicine.htm, http://www.china.org.cn/2007-01/26/content_1197626.htm, and http://www.schoolshistory.org.uk/gcse/medicine/ancientgreece.htm
References for the history of surgery in Europe would also be helpful.
There should be citations in the sections about Pain ( http://neurosurgery.mgh.harvard.edu/History/ether3.htm and http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/snow_john.shtml ) and Infection ( http://www.semmelweis.org/about/dr-semmelweis-biography/, http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Joseph_Lister, and http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Louis_Pasteur) in the section on Modern surgery.
I think that the article has been much improved to make this more global and not US-centric. BSW BV ( talk) 14:20, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
This didn't seem to be helping in the article:
Jagged 85 ( talk · contribs) is one of the main contributors to Wikipedia (over 67,000 edits; he's ranked 198 in the number of edits), and practically all of his edits have to do with Islamic science, technology and philosophy. This editor has persistently misused sources here over several years. This editor's contributions are always well provided with citations, but examination of these sources often reveals either a blatant misrepresentation of those sources or a selective interpretation, going beyond any reasonable interpretation of the authors' intent. Please see: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Jagged 85. The damage is so extensive that it is undermining Wikipedia's credibility as a source. I searched the page history, and found 13 edits by Jagged 85 (for example, see this edits). Tobby72 ( talk) 21:33, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Aren't obstetricians surgeons? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.6.43.51 ( talk) 10:25, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
I am wondering if these exist. 'Consent' is an issue mentioned sparsely here, but it important in relation to many controversies. I think it would be valuable to have a section or article explaining the terms for these kinds of procedures.
I initially thought elective surgery referred to consented-to surgery but as I read more it seems maybe it might only refer to a specific kind of consented-to surgery and that there are other types as well? What is the antonym here, surgeries done without consent? Not emergency for certain, since non-consented surgeries are also done in non-emergencies. Ranze ( talk) 03:44, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
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Even though patient safety is very important, the safety of surgeons and nurses is important as well. Therefore I suggest adding a respective section to the article. One of the general risks is infection through contact to the blood of the patient. Some diseases can be communicated even by means of blood splashes to e.g. the eyes of the surgeon. As a safety measure, surgeons as advised to wear appropriate glasses. Some surgical disciplines frequently use X rays. Heart surgeons specialized in treating children are prone to developing left sided brain tumors because of scatter radiation. Orthopedia and trauma surgeons are also exposed to more scatter radiation than average surgeons. Not only surgeons are at risk, but nurses also - the closer to the X ray source the more. Pia F. Bichsel ( talk) 21:55, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Currently Surgical wound is redirecting here. Shouldn't it be redirected to Surgical incision? GoxSox1989 ( talk) 05:05, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
It should be mentioned that Surgery clothing is essential in surgery and keeps dust spread to 100000 particles per person (as opposed to 7,5 million particles pp). This limits growth possibility of bacteria, viruses.
to decrease dust to 3500 dust particles over operating room over the surgical table.
It should be mentioned that the newest surgery rooms are equipped with
It should be mentioned that a operating room often costs up to 1 million € <ref>Elektrochirurgie in 3D, Kijk.nl magazine July 2009</ref>
In England I have seen that other people hold surgeries, such as theatres and MPs.
Hull Truck Theatre: "With a creative surgery, workshops, conversations and events, there are multiple opportunities to grow your creative talent."
Most MPs hold a surgery to give the people in their constituency an opportunity to meet them. http://www.parliament.uk/site-information/glossary/surgeries/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.78.75.150 ( talk) 10:37, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
someone plz help to add into those clip?
Basic Surgery Instruments & Handling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI1gVTL07rY
54 BASIC SURGICAL INSTRUMENTS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1G5d_33q4Y
— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
36.225.100.123 (
talk)
15:23, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
The article says "The surgeon will remove hair from the face and eyes, using a head hat." I am puzzled. Does the surgeon or the patient wear the "head hat?" How is it different from a "hat?" Presumably it is not a tool actually used for the hair removal, like scissors, tweezers, a razor, wax, or depilatory cream. I have tagged this as needing a reference and it should be removed from the article unless explained, Wikilinked to an explanation, or followed by an inline reference to a reliable source. I could find nothing helpful online. Edison ( talk) 17:01, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
The section on surgery previously said that an iodine solution is applied to the surgical site as an antiseptic. That suggests a simple tincture of iodine, which was superseded in the late 20th century by Betadine. The article on Betadine says "Povidone-iodine (PVP-I), brand name Wokadine, Pyodine, and Betadine is a stable chemical complex of polyvinylpyrrolidone (povidone, PVP) and elemental iodine. It contains from 9.0% to 12.0% available iodine, calculated on a dry basis."That article says Betadine was found in the 1950's to be less toxic than tincture of iodine. Iodine had itself replaced 19th century favorites such as carbolic acid used by Lister. Thus there is more in the modern surgical antiseptic swab than just a solution of iodine. But is Betadine the only antiseptic currently used to swab the surgical site, or are there other antiseptics? When I had a skin biopsy recently, the doctor just used an alcohol swab although I understand that alcohol is not that great at killing off all pathogens. Is Betadine or something else used when the surgical site is in the sclera, the rectum, the nasal passages, the throat, or the mouth? References, please. Edison ( talk) 19:31, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
The lines between surgery and other interventional procedures are more blurred all the time. This should probably be mentioned somewhere. Endoscopy such as ERCP, Interventional radiology, and Invasive cardiology are all not classical surgery, but have some overlap, and some of the same procedures performed by specialists in those fields are performed by surgeons. We should address this in some way. BakerStMD 17:22, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
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An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Minor procedure. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Utopes ( talk / cont) 04:59, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
WikiMed Feb-Mar 2022 UCSF SOM
Mon 2/28 Course Day 1
• reviewed Wikiproject Medicine’s website
• completed all 9 required Wiki Ed training modules
• began brainstorming about what article I want to work on this month
Tues 3/1 Course Day 2
• Picked “global surgery” as a potential topic
• Reviewed what is currently written on Wikipedia about global surgery
• Compared the logistics of expanding the global surgery subsection in the “surgery” article vs starting a new “global surgery” article
Fri 3/4 WP-WIP #1
• Begin literature review, start finding reliable sources for citations
• Verify what is already written on Wikipedia with the citations and identify errors and room for expansion (e.g. global surgery being the “neglected step child of global health” is mistakenly attributed to Halfdan T. Mahler instead of Paul E. Farmer who coined the term in his 2008 article “Surgery and Global Health: A View from Beyond the OR”)
Wed 3/9 WP-WIP #2
• Have started revising and writing the introductory paragraph
• Update the statistics from the landmark 2015 Lancet Commission on Global Surgery or newer studies
• Incorporate the Lancet Commission Global Surgery 2030 visions/goals
Wed 3/16 WP-WIP #3
• Seek out a peer reviewer
• Continue to review literature, potentially adding future directions as a conclusion with the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on global surgery
Mon 3/21 WP-WIP #4
• Incorporate peer review feedback
• Begin putting finishing touches by utilizing software such as Grammarly (already have) or Hemingway (new) for readability
Fri 3/25 Course Wrap-up
• Will have published final edits
• Reflect on what I accomplished, learned, will take forward with me into the future, and anything I would have done differently
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 February 2022 and 27 March 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Pjypark21 ( article contribs).
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I've heard that surgeons have to retire at 60 years-old because they can't keep their hands perfectly still anymore at that age. Is this true? It seems to make sense, older people do seem to have this problem. If this is true, I think it warrants inclusion on this page.
Answer: No, this is not true. Obviously some older people may have this problem, but others will not. In the United States, the Age Discrimination in Employment law prevents forced retirement of older surgeon-employees at hospitals, etc., at some specified age, provided they can continue to do their job, with or without "accommodation." In fact, one "young" surgeon (about 50 years old at the time) had a nervous breakdown in the middle of surgery and walked out, leaving his assistant to finish. While that has nothing to do with wobbly/shakey hands, it does show there are other things for a patient to worry about.
Another answer: No, as a pre-med student, some of the finest surgeons I have met are considered "old". They are extremely skilled and experienced. Think of it this way; have you ever tried to hold your hands perfectly still? No matter how hard you try, gravity will make your hands shake no matter how old you are. Even with mild tremors, an experienced surgeon will still be as effective as he/she was when at a younger age.
Another point - Robotic surgery has made slight tremors less of an issue for surgeons regardless of age. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dj321 ( talk • contribs) 01:41, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
"The first surgeons were battlefield doctors in the Napoleonic Wars". This seems improbable. The article itself hints that there were surgeons already in antiquity.
S.
Yes, this is a wrong assertion. Even the ancient egyptians practiced successful brain surgery. Successful,in that their patients survived the procedures, at least sometimes. One ancient skull shows three healed trepannings, with rounded edges, and one fresh trepanning, with recent, square edges, indicating the patient died during, or soon after, surgery.
Where is Ben Carson on your list of noted surgeons?! What about Levi Watkins, the Cardiovascular surgeon?! And what about the surgical pioneer--the first surgeon to successfully perform open-heart surgery on a patient--Dr. Daniel Hale Williams? Your list is corrupt and incomplete
Wouldn't many surgeons object to surgery being called a sub-branch of medicine? In hospitals medicine and surgery are the two largest branchs of healthcare (with say occupational health, alternative healthcare etc being the others). BozMo (talk)
Inserted modern to clarify that Napolean's battlefield doctors were not the first surgeons...for surgery is an ancient practice dating back to prehistorical times, as the archeological evidence shows. icut4u
Actually, it turns out this is a gray area. It depends on how you define surgery, in an operating theatre with an intent to heal. Surgery was primarily done at the location of the patient and as a last resort or kind of experiment, up to the 1840's. Until then it was considered extremely painful and a shot in the dark. Winning the lottery had better chances than surgery, because of infection. So the Napoleonic Wars were really the first period where you could speak of 'an operating theatre' where the patients were brought to the surgeon, and he was helped by assistents and/or nurses. Amputation had a poor survival rate due to gangrene, but some did survive to fight another day. Before this, the 'surgeon' was a man with dental skills (pulling teeth), childbirth (caesarians ended in the death of the mother) skills, or blood letting. Jane 15:42, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
As you say it depends on how you define surgery...Amputations were performed well before the Napoleonic Wars with patients being brought to the doctor so in that sense surgery probably has been performed since egyptian days or earlier. Homish 01:12, 29 January 2007 (ADST)
The Practice and reputation section is full of non-NPOV and either needs to be brought up to encyclopaedic standard or removed. -- Daveb 14:26, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
I'm not really happy with the current list of surgeons just growing unchecked; my opinion is that every Joe Random Surgeon gets added to the list, without any basis for notoriety. I'm not sure how to approach it, though — can we maybe agree on some criteria to list people, or maybe only keep it down to (say) 5 or so really notable and/or historic surgeons? Wikipedia isn't a list dump. Dewet 16:15, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
Why are only the obstetric ones listed here? I am curious what the other most common procedures are...
"Researchers have also uncovered an Ancient Egyptian mandible, dated to approximately 2750 BC, having two perforations just below the root of the first molar, indicating the draining of an abscessed tooth." - I'm sure I read something in a New Scientist recently about Ancient Egyptian dentistry being massively over-estimated, and that apparent evidence of surgery was in fact just an abscess having increased in size, or similar. Anyone want a look? I think it might have been in the 'Histories' section... -- HiddenInPlainSight 09:56, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
This page has a lot about what one might call the social side of surgery, history, accomplishments, most common procedures, eminent surgeons etc. It lacks the scientific side of surgery - what do surgeons actually do and how do they make decisions. On the Talk:Orthopedic surgery page I have posted a template for description of ortho conditions and another for description of ortho procedures. They indicate how orthopaedic surgeons organize their thinking about their subject. Are they relevant here? Are these templates more widely applicable to surgery subjects? Have I missed finding a well accepted wiki template for these subjects? -- Mylesclough 03:38, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
I have requested a peer review for the article on Michael Woodruff, a pioneering transplant surgeon. I'm looking for as much feedback and this page seemed like a good place to find people interested in the subject. So, if anyone reading this would please participate at Wikipedia:Peer review/Michael Woodruff/archive1 it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much. Cool3 18:35, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Public domain pictures and diagrams of many forms of surgery are available on the NIH NCI website. See:
Hope that helps, — Catherine\ talk 04:39, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
This citation does not refer to the Ancient India. Drilling and cleaning teeth 9000 years ago (which stopped 1500 years later) apparently predated the Indus Valley Civilization (c.3000 BC) by some 4000 years. ( Igny 15:16, 30 September 2006 (UTC))
I have removed the following paragraph, waiting for a clarification and references. I also added citation needed throughout the text.
Is there such thing as a Prosthetic Surgeon? A surgeon that deals mainly with all forms of prosthesis? Zachorious 12:02, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Some surgeons perform a lot of amputations, and have to prepare a suitable stump to take a prosthesis: they are often vascular or trauma specialists, rather than orthopaedic surgeons. Most of the medical practitioners involved with amputees are not surgeons, but specialists in rehabilitation medicine, known in the USA as "physiatrists." Modern prostheses are no longer carved from wood, and may incorporate advanced technology: the technicians ("prosthetists") who make or modify them are qualified to degree level. Bio-engineers are also involved. NRPanikker 02:11, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Circumcision is listed among the most common non-obstetric surgeries. That contradicts the very definition of the word:
As such, circumcision can not be listed among surgeries. It is a "treatment" to injure as much as phlebotomy or trepanation -- that is, it actually causes an injure. Circumcision is, in fact, a mutilation, that is:
- Stormwatch 04:20, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Circumcision should be removed for another reason: You do not need to be trained or educated to do it, see this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=llxSytDu0ek -- Validside 05:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
In many cases, cosmetic surgery treats neither a disease nor an injury. Removal of duplicate organs from a live person for transplant involvers surgery, but is not a treatment for that person. Many biopsies are done for the sake of diagnosis, but are not treatment in themselves. The definition of surgery may need to be expanded. H Padleckas 05:03, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
LouisBB 15:29, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
A simple google search reveals the following fathers of surgery.
Do we need an article about that? ( Igny 16:26, 3 December 2006 (UTC))
Person who chooses Surgery, should be hardworking.
History is a small part of the topic of "surgery" as a whole - theres a lot to be said on surgery that isn't history. This really deserves its own article. So I've split off History of surgery and summarised it here in summary style.
Obviously now it's created it needs more material added :) FT2 ( Talk | email) 10:55, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Although the existing sections in this Surgery article are good, even the fundamentals of modern surgery are hardly covered in this article. Surgery is an important and rather broad topic in modern medicine. I think this article can and should be greatly expanded to cover an overview of modern surgery. Previously Surgeon redirected to this article. Two former sections called "Surgeon titles" and "Noted surgeons" were only about surgeons, not about surgery itself. In order to make room for such an expansion of this Surgery article to cover the topic of surgery itself, I moved these two sections out of this Surgery article to a new article I formed called Surgeon.
Before I moved about 3600 bytes of this article to the new
Surgeon article, this article was about 15700 bytes long. It is now about 12100 bytes long. A maximum article length of about 32 KB or less has been mentioned as desirable, although articles can exceed this length. The new surgeon article is not very long, less than 4000 bytes. Either before or after my move to form the new
Surgeon article, I now concede there was enough room for a significant expansion of the
Surgery article, which I really think would be a good idea. If anybody thinks this move should be reversed, go ahead and recombine
Surgeon with
Surgery. We would still have about 15 - 16 kB for a serious expansion of this
Surgery article.
H Padleckas
09:39, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
The previous wording read that surgeons are usually physicians. To an Australian physician (sensu stricto) trained in the British terminology, this sounded like a contradiction in terms. Outside North America, the English word 'physician' still retains its older meaning of specialist in internal medicne (archaic = 'physic'). I have edited the entry on physician to this effect. Hence I substituted the more lengthy but quite neutral phrase 'medical practitioner'. However, clicking on this term still redirects to the article on physician.
There is also nothing in this article about the old division of the profession, and that surgeons & physicians once were clearly regarded as separate occupations. The Hippocratic oath enjoins its takers, in the 4th last paragraph, not to cut for the stone (ie, don't do surgery, probably for bladder stones); that is, at the time of the school of Hippocrates, surgery was a separate craft! Maybe the article could do with a note to this effect. --DavidB 12:49, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
The Hippocratic prohibition is not for surgery in general, but specifically for lithotomy, since there was a specific profession limited to that procedure: much as dentistry became later. NRPanikker 02:19, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Podiatrists also perform surgery..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.176.131 ( talk) 09:40, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Link to current
Talk:Surgery
Link to current
Talk:Surgeon
Circumcision is listed among the most common non-obstetric surgeries. That contradicts the very definition of the word:
As such, circumcision can not be listed among surgeries. It is a "treatment" to injure as much as phlebotomy or trepanation -- that is, it actually causes an injure. Circumcision is, in fact, a mutilation, that is:
- Stormwatch 04:20, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Circumcision should be removed for another reason: You do not need to be trained or educated to do it, see this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=llxSytDu0ek -- Validside 05:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
In many cases, cosmetic surgery treats neither a disease nor an injury. Removal of duplicate organs from a live person for transplant involvers surgery, but is not a treatment for that person. Many biopsies are done for the sake of diagnosis, but are not treatment in themselves. The definition of surgery may need to be expanded. H Padleckas 05:03, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
LouisBB 15:29, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
A simple google search reveals the following fathers of surgery.
Do we need an article about that? ( Igny 16:26, 3 December 2006 (UTC))
Person who chooses Surgery, should be hardworking.
History is a small part of the topic of "surgery" as a whole - theres a lot to be said on surgery that isn't history. This really deserves its own article. So I've split off History of surgery and summarised it here in summary style.
Obviously now it's created it needs more material added :) FT2 ( Talk | email) 10:55, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Although the existing sections in this Surgery article are good, even the fundamentals of modern surgery are hardly covered in this article. Surgery is an important and rather broad topic in modern medicine. I think this article can and should be greatly expanded to cover an overview of modern surgery. Previously Surgeon redirected to this article. Two former sections called "Surgeon titles" and "Noted surgeons" were only about surgeons, not about surgery itself. In order to make room for such an expansion of this Surgery article to cover the topic of surgery itself, I moved these two sections out of this Surgery article to a new article I formed called Surgeon.
Before I moved about 3600 bytes of this article to the new
Surgeon article, this article was about 15700 bytes long. It is now about 12100 bytes long. A maximum article length of about 32 KB or less has been mentioned as desirable, although articles can exceed this length. The new surgeon article is not very long, less than 4000 bytes. Either before or after my move to form the new
Surgeon article, I now concede there was enough room for a significant expansion of the
Surgery article, which I really think would be a good idea. If anybody thinks this move should be reversed, go ahead and recombine
Surgeon with
Surgery. We would still have about 15 - 16 kB for a serious expansion of this
Surgery article.
H Padleckas
09:39, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
The previous wording read that surgeons are usually physicians. To an Australian physician (sensu stricto) trained in the British terminology, this sounded like a contradiction in terms. Outside North America, the English word 'physician' still retains its older meaning of specialist in internal medicne (archaic = 'physic'). I have edited the entry on physician to this effect. Hence I substituted the more lengthy but quite neutral phrase 'medical practitioner'. However, clicking on this term still redirects to the article on physician.
There is also nothing in this article about the old division of the profession, and that surgeons & physicians once were clearly regarded as separate occupations. The Hippocratic oath enjoins its takers, in the 4th last paragraph, not to cut for the stone (ie, don't do surgery, probably for bladder stones); that is, at the time of the school of Hippocrates, surgery was a separate craft! Maybe the article could do with a note to this effect. --DavidB 12:49, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
The Hippocratic prohibition is not for surgery in general, but specifically for lithotomy, since there was a specific profession limited to that procedure: much as dentistry became later. NRPanikker 02:19, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Podiatrists also perform surgery..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.176.131 ( talk) 09:40, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
On Aug. 28-29, 2007, I noticed that the Surgery article was deficient in the practical coverage of modern surgery, but had two sections called "Surgeon titles" and "Noted surgeons" which were not about surgery itself but only about surgeons. At that time, Surgeon redirected to Surgery meaning that the article covered both topics. On this Talk page, WikiProject Medicine rated Surgery as "Start-Class" on the quality assessment scale, meaning it could use significant further development. In order to make room for a significant expansion of Surgery which is a broad topic in itself, I divided the article into separate Surgery and Surgeon articles. I moved the two sections about surgeons ("Surgeon titles" and "Noted surgeons") to the new Surgeon article. I noted on this Talk page under Division into Surgery and Surgeon articles that I had so divided the article. On Aug. 30, 2007, I then wrote small sections called "Surgery article" on both the WikiProject Medicine Talk and WikiProject Clinical medicine Talk pages saying that the Surgery article was inadequate in the describing modern surgery and asked if anyone was working on expanding the Surgery article. The only response I received was from User:MastCell saying that I should "go for it" (and a link to " be bold"), effectively suggesting that I expand the article myself. After practically two months of waiting for someone to address the problem, no one had done anything of real substance.
I went ahead and wrote an expansion for Surgery in the form of a new section I call "Overview of modern surgery", which I uploaded to the article on Oct. 30, 2007. On Nov. 2, 2007, I expanded/clarified the Surgery introductory section. For now, I'm finished with the introductory section and almost finished with "Overview of modern surgery". I would like to note there is already a separate History of surgery article, so further expansion on the History of surgery can be done there. The "History" (of surgery) section in the Surgery article is well-developed, perhaps even longer than necessary, particularly since there already is a History of surgery article. About 5 kB remain in Surgery for further expansion until reaching the desirable but non-binding 32 kB limit. It is not possible to cover all aspects and types of surgery in depth in 32 kB and it is not my intention to do so. Instead, Surgery covers fundamentals common to multiple types of Surgery and serves as a tie-together article containing links to more specific topic articles on surgery, where details on specific kinds of surgery can be covered in depth.
I think the revised Surgery article, which covers a high-importance topic in medicine, will soon be ready for a peer review. Review of Surgery could even start now. Upon finishing a peer review, Surgery could be re-assessed to a higher rating by the WikiProject. When I get a chance, perhaps towards the end of November, I plan to archive much of this Talk page to Talk:Surgery or Surgeon/ Archive since it is getting a bit long and many discussions are old and moot or relevant only to Surgeons. The Talk:Surgeon page will also have a link to it. H Padleckas 06:01, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
The article says: Anesthesia is administered to prevent pain from incision, other tissue cutting and suturing, etc. Although in theory it may sometimes be possible to operate without anesthesia, in most surgeries the pain would be unbearable and a patient would not hold sufficiently still for a surgeon to precisely operate.
Circumcision is listed in the article as a surgery. Infant male circumcision is routinely performed with no anesthesia, which seems to contradict the quoted section above. Does anyone have suggestions as to how we can bring the quote in line with reality in light of this fact? It seems horrifying to say "Anesthesia is administered only optionally if the patient is an infant male undergoing circumcision, since strapping the infant down is cheaper and culturally accepted" even though this is the truth. I'm sure someone can come up with a way to fix the quote without making the medical profession look like a bunch of charlatans, so therefore I encourage responses. Thanks! Blackworm ( talk) 18:51, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
This article does not mention immobilization during surgery (when patients are are strapped to the surgical table). It would be nice to know when is it performed and for what reasons. -- 193.198.16.211 ( talk) 16:34, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I would imagine that for the majority of operations where the patient needs to remain still the effect could be achieved with muscles relaxants. However perhaps if this was contraindicated (e.g. in patients suffering from butyrylcholinesterase defficiency) then they could be strapped down. JimBrownish ( talk) 00:53, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Immobilizing a patient during surgery is done for the safety of the patient. The use of safety straps during surgery is similar to the use of seat-belts in a car. Sometimes during surgery the surgical table needs to be tilted to one side, and without the use of a safety strap, gravity could cause the patient to roll off the surgical table. Also as the patient is "waking-up" from anesthesia, they sometimes try to roll onto their side, and on the very narrow surgical table this could result in the patient rolling off the table.-- Daniela T. RN ( talk) 01:27, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
The external link to "Surgery Videos" ( http://www.surgery-sugery.com/lasik-surgery.php) appears to be broken. The latest snapshot for the page on the Wayback Machine was in Feb. '08. Unless there are any objections I think this link should be removed. JakeMul ( talk) 23:46, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
--> Also, in "History" a right square bracket has been omitted, thus having [[Egypt] appear in the text.
Why is this page semi-protected? I couldn't find anything in the talk logs about it.-- Adam in MO Talk 04:30, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Indeed. Can someone advise how to figure out why pages are protected and when they will be unprotected? Is the reason disclosed, or is it, so far as can be determined by a nonparty, simply at the whims of the person protecting? If it isn't policy allready, wouldn't it be a good idea to require the reasons for protection to be stated on the talk page? The protection policy states consensus should be reached regarding the need. How could this ever occur if the reasons for protection are a mystery because the protecting person has failed to provide any information as to why the patge is protected? It seems quite silly, are we supposed to debate imagined reasons and come to consensus on those? Anyways, as their is not noted reason to protect the page, and no reason that appears to require protection, I urge unprotection.-- 24.29.234.88 ( talk) 04:12, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
In the section "Modern Surgery", both the heading "Pain" and the information under it appear twice. Mister Killam ( talk) 05:51, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
The development of nanotechnology has had a noticeable impact on surgery techniques. Perhaps there should be an entry on the topic of nano-surgery which would present these new methods. [12] [13] [14] ADM ( talk) 18:22, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Please note that you cannot say "surgeries" to mean surgical operations/interventions as it is an uncountable noun in this case, see here http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/surgery, so I'm going to modify the three instances of this. That's all folks Captain Screebo ( talk) 23:45, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
(Part of the WikiProject Medicine effort)
A citation or two for the derivation of the term “surgery” would be nice.
Since this article is about the medical specialty (as indicated at the top of the page), there should be a description of what training is required (for example, in medical school and the program, etc.).
A good citation here would be good; see: http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=5603
Principles of aseptic technique should be referenced; see: http://www.surgeryencyclopedia.com/A-Ce/Aseptic-Technique.html
The ASA classification system should be referenced; see: http://www.asahq.org/clinical/physicalstatus.htm
A general surgical reference text may be useful to support the general surgical process. One can be found here: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=node%3D465600&field-keywords=surgery
Reference needed for evidence of surgery in Ancient Egypt; see: http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/timelines/topics/medicine.htm
There should also be citations for evidence of surgery in Ancient India, China, and Greece: see: http://www.unitedindia.com/medicine.htm, http://www.china.org.cn/2007-01/26/content_1197626.htm, and http://www.schoolshistory.org.uk/gcse/medicine/ancientgreece.htm
References for the history of surgery in Europe would also be helpful.
There should be citations in the sections about Pain ( http://neurosurgery.mgh.harvard.edu/History/ether3.htm and http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/snow_john.shtml ) and Infection ( http://www.semmelweis.org/about/dr-semmelweis-biography/, http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Joseph_Lister, and http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Louis_Pasteur) in the section on Modern surgery.
I think that the article has been much improved to make this more global and not US-centric. BSW BV ( talk) 14:20, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
This didn't seem to be helping in the article:
Jagged 85 ( talk · contribs) is one of the main contributors to Wikipedia (over 67,000 edits; he's ranked 198 in the number of edits), and practically all of his edits have to do with Islamic science, technology and philosophy. This editor has persistently misused sources here over several years. This editor's contributions are always well provided with citations, but examination of these sources often reveals either a blatant misrepresentation of those sources or a selective interpretation, going beyond any reasonable interpretation of the authors' intent. Please see: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Jagged 85. The damage is so extensive that it is undermining Wikipedia's credibility as a source. I searched the page history, and found 13 edits by Jagged 85 (for example, see this edits). Tobby72 ( talk) 21:33, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Aren't obstetricians surgeons? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.6.43.51 ( talk) 10:25, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
I am wondering if these exist. 'Consent' is an issue mentioned sparsely here, but it important in relation to many controversies. I think it would be valuable to have a section or article explaining the terms for these kinds of procedures.
I initially thought elective surgery referred to consented-to surgery but as I read more it seems maybe it might only refer to a specific kind of consented-to surgery and that there are other types as well? What is the antonym here, surgeries done without consent? Not emergency for certain, since non-consented surgeries are also done in non-emergencies. Ranze ( talk) 03:44, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
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Even though patient safety is very important, the safety of surgeons and nurses is important as well. Therefore I suggest adding a respective section to the article. One of the general risks is infection through contact to the blood of the patient. Some diseases can be communicated even by means of blood splashes to e.g. the eyes of the surgeon. As a safety measure, surgeons as advised to wear appropriate glasses. Some surgical disciplines frequently use X rays. Heart surgeons specialized in treating children are prone to developing left sided brain tumors because of scatter radiation. Orthopedia and trauma surgeons are also exposed to more scatter radiation than average surgeons. Not only surgeons are at risk, but nurses also - the closer to the X ray source the more. Pia F. Bichsel ( talk) 21:55, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Currently Surgical wound is redirecting here. Shouldn't it be redirected to Surgical incision? GoxSox1989 ( talk) 05:05, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
It should be mentioned that Surgery clothing is essential in surgery and keeps dust spread to 100000 particles per person (as opposed to 7,5 million particles pp). This limits growth possibility of bacteria, viruses.
to decrease dust to 3500 dust particles over operating room over the surgical table.
It should be mentioned that the newest surgery rooms are equipped with
It should be mentioned that a operating room often costs up to 1 million € <ref>Elektrochirurgie in 3D, Kijk.nl magazine July 2009</ref>
In England I have seen that other people hold surgeries, such as theatres and MPs.
Hull Truck Theatre: "With a creative surgery, workshops, conversations and events, there are multiple opportunities to grow your creative talent."
Most MPs hold a surgery to give the people in their constituency an opportunity to meet them. http://www.parliament.uk/site-information/glossary/surgeries/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.78.75.150 ( talk) 10:37, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
someone plz help to add into those clip?
Basic Surgery Instruments & Handling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI1gVTL07rY
54 BASIC SURGICAL INSTRUMENTS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1G5d_33q4Y
— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
36.225.100.123 (
talk)
15:23, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
The article says "The surgeon will remove hair from the face and eyes, using a head hat." I am puzzled. Does the surgeon or the patient wear the "head hat?" How is it different from a "hat?" Presumably it is not a tool actually used for the hair removal, like scissors, tweezers, a razor, wax, or depilatory cream. I have tagged this as needing a reference and it should be removed from the article unless explained, Wikilinked to an explanation, or followed by an inline reference to a reliable source. I could find nothing helpful online. Edison ( talk) 17:01, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
The section on surgery previously said that an iodine solution is applied to the surgical site as an antiseptic. That suggests a simple tincture of iodine, which was superseded in the late 20th century by Betadine. The article on Betadine says "Povidone-iodine (PVP-I), brand name Wokadine, Pyodine, and Betadine is a stable chemical complex of polyvinylpyrrolidone (povidone, PVP) and elemental iodine. It contains from 9.0% to 12.0% available iodine, calculated on a dry basis."That article says Betadine was found in the 1950's to be less toxic than tincture of iodine. Iodine had itself replaced 19th century favorites such as carbolic acid used by Lister. Thus there is more in the modern surgical antiseptic swab than just a solution of iodine. But is Betadine the only antiseptic currently used to swab the surgical site, or are there other antiseptics? When I had a skin biopsy recently, the doctor just used an alcohol swab although I understand that alcohol is not that great at killing off all pathogens. Is Betadine or something else used when the surgical site is in the sclera, the rectum, the nasal passages, the throat, or the mouth? References, please. Edison ( talk) 19:31, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
The lines between surgery and other interventional procedures are more blurred all the time. This should probably be mentioned somewhere. Endoscopy such as ERCP, Interventional radiology, and Invasive cardiology are all not classical surgery, but have some overlap, and some of the same procedures performed by specialists in those fields are performed by surgeons. We should address this in some way. BakerStMD 17:22, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
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WikiMed Feb-Mar 2022 UCSF SOM
Mon 2/28 Course Day 1
• reviewed Wikiproject Medicine’s website
• completed all 9 required Wiki Ed training modules
• began brainstorming about what article I want to work on this month
Tues 3/1 Course Day 2
• Picked “global surgery” as a potential topic
• Reviewed what is currently written on Wikipedia about global surgery
• Compared the logistics of expanding the global surgery subsection in the “surgery” article vs starting a new “global surgery” article
Fri 3/4 WP-WIP #1
• Begin literature review, start finding reliable sources for citations
• Verify what is already written on Wikipedia with the citations and identify errors and room for expansion (e.g. global surgery being the “neglected step child of global health” is mistakenly attributed to Halfdan T. Mahler instead of Paul E. Farmer who coined the term in his 2008 article “Surgery and Global Health: A View from Beyond the OR”)
Wed 3/9 WP-WIP #2
• Have started revising and writing the introductory paragraph
• Update the statistics from the landmark 2015 Lancet Commission on Global Surgery or newer studies
• Incorporate the Lancet Commission Global Surgery 2030 visions/goals
Wed 3/16 WP-WIP #3
• Seek out a peer reviewer
• Continue to review literature, potentially adding future directions as a conclusion with the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on global surgery
Mon 3/21 WP-WIP #4
• Incorporate peer review feedback
• Begin putting finishing touches by utilizing software such as Grammarly (already have) or Hemingway (new) for readability
Fri 3/25 Course Wrap-up
• Will have published final edits
• Reflect on what I accomplished, learned, will take forward with me into the future, and anything I would have done differently
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 February 2022 and 27 March 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Pjypark21 ( article contribs).