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Since the talk page was getting so long. If you would like to continue past conversations or have something to discuss about the current article, please do so below. Voice of Treason 18:44, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Throughout all of the Dragonball series, GT is the only one with a female ( Pan) who's even 1/4 saiyan. I want to know why females can't go super saiyan. I heard that Akira had a hard time making them look like SSJs or something like that and when I tried to picture Pan as a SSJ, it ended up looking like an ordinary blond girl (just with spiky hair.) -- Sasuke-kun27 21:17, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
It was never stated that female Saiyans cannot go SSJ or higher, in fact they probably can, however both awnsers have been said here. Both Pan and Bulla (Bra) never had the motivation to become one and Akira Toriyama did not know how to make female SSJ look good, in fact, he also had the problem with regular female saiyans, since none have appeared. The female saiyans you get to see in flashbacks and in the bardock special, like Fasha, are not cannon, created by TOEI and not by Akira Toriyama. Just for the good record, Akira Toriyama did not create GT, he only helped a little with some character designs.
Just putting this out there, but I also noticed that they don't have any tails either. Sasuke-kun27 23:41, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
i know dbaf is just a hoax or fan art whatever but can anyone tell me where are pics of anything higher than than ss10?
Why is he still listed as an SS even after I changed it? Majin Vegeta didn't have the electricity with him half the time. He was an SS2. So is Vegeto.
That's Majin Vegeta with no electricty. He was an SS2 the whole time and never powered down.- indianhitman 7/29/2006
That page Majin Vegeta as electricity
That page he doesn't.
No electricty
Majin Vegeta was always an SS2. His power had been unlocked and as long as He had that M on his head he was an SS2. He can never power down from that state.
Now SS has no electricity and SS2 has electricity. Vegeto had electricity. How can all evidence put Vegeto as SS, when SS doesn't have electricity.
No electricity. he was fighting.
"None of which has anything to do with Vegetto."
Yes it does. They were both SS2.
Gohan doesn't always have his electricity either.
Anyway saying that an SS2 always has electricity is like saying that an SS always has a glow. They aren't always there. But when an SS has electricty, it means that they are SS2. SS does not have eletricity. I don't know how you can keep arguing against this. I'm not going to post anything else.- indianhitman, 29/7/06
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume35/Db35ch02/350212.gif http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume35/Db35ch02/350213.gif
Gohan no electricity.
Vegeta was Majin. We know this because of the M on his head. He can not power down from the SS2. Vegeto had it at that point. Which means that he was at SS2. The rest of the fight he may have been SS. But he definilty went SS2. Proof the electricity.- indianhitman
This is officially stated in the Daizenshuus (The official Dragonball guides). The only people to achieve Super Saiyan 2 were Gohan, Goku and Vegeta. Majin Vegeta was Super Saiyan 2, Goku in those scans was SS2 as well, but he didn't have electricity either. Majinvegeta
Why does this name keep coming up? It's a fan name! There are two known forms that are between the Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 form. People keep calling them Ultra Super Saiyan 1 and Ultra Super Saiyan 2 or Ascended Super Saiyan and Ultra Super Saiyan. All wrong names.
The first should only be called Super Saiyan 2nd Grade since such a name comes closest to the Japanese term for the form, namely Super Saiyan Dai Ni dankai.
The second should only be called Super Saiyan 3rd Grade since such a name comes closest to the Japanese term for the form, namely Super Saiyan Dai San Dankai.
The most worst name for Super Saiyan 2nd Grade, would be Ascended Super Saiyan, since the true Acended Super Saiyan is in fact Super Saiyan 2. Goku and Vegeta wanted to reach a higher SSJ form during the Androids/Cell arc. They wanted to experience the boost in power, speed and agility all over again, but now from the base of Super Saiyan, meaning their goal was Super Saiyan 2. Super Saiyan 2nd Grade and Super Saiyan 3rd Grade are try-outs of becoming a Super Saiyan 2, thus making Super Saiyan 2, the true ascended Saiyan like Goku also states.
Core4Sure
I guess what KojiDude says is true, nevertheless as to awnser to Daishokaioshin i got my information from Daizenshuu EX, which gives a pretty good explanation:
The USSJ stages (two of them) would each be considered, as Goku puts it in the original Japanese dialogue, "ichi-dankai no henshin" ("transformations of the first stage"). However, these two USSJ stages are thought of by Vegeta and Trunks as "Sûpâ Saiya-jin dai ni-dankai" and "Sûpâ Saiya-jin dai san-dankai" ("stage 2 / stage 3 of Super Saiyan," with "ni" and "san" meaning "two" and "three," respectively) Technically, these descriptions would probably better fit the actual SSJ2 and SSJ3, but we'll use them here as Vegeta & Trunks would.
Sûpâ Saiya-jin dai ichi-dankai (the normal Super Saiyan, or SSJ1)
Sûpâ Saiya-jin dai ni-dankai (USSJ 1; the second stage of SSJ1)
Sûpâ Saiya-jin dai san-dankai (USSJ 2; the third stage of SSJ1)
Since they say it could be confused with SSJ2 and SSJ3, the name 2nd and 3rd grade would apply better, but anyway as Kojidude said there both listed, so I guess it's not a problem.. Core4Sure
For the article for Ascended Super Saiyan, please do not put in the sentence(and is more defined in appearance than before) ever again. The previous sentence(Also the hair gets longer and is is slightly sharper in appearance) is much better. Because the hair of an Ascended Super Saiyan is not defined as previously thought but more sharper in appearance and texture.
64.107.164.130 20:58, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Why was some text of the false super saiyan form deleted. Goku used the form again in the otherworld and because he had reached SSJ during that time, he was in full control. Why was this deleted?
True and I know that it is filler, but the filler was made by TOEI just like they made DBZ Movie 4. So even though Goku did not need the false super saiyan transformation, it was probably a reference to the movie made by TOEI.
Also in the AWT saga it possible that Toei made a mistake. They wanted to use the Super Saiyan transformation as a surprise to use against Pikkon in the finals, but had the animation of Goku going SS ready to go. So with the animation already drawn they may have decided to make Goku use some of his Super Saiyan power and given of the appearance that he turned into the Giji (or whatever the name they got now) SS instead. Though it states that he doesn't have full control of the power is due to him not being a SS at all at the time of the movie. Now he has full control and can tap into his SS powers without going SS. The only difference is Goku has is pupils showing in his eyes as he doesn't in the movie. You both have a point but that could explain somethings as to the apparent appearance of that form in the AWT. Heat P 05:52, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Trunks' USSJ isn't "mistaken" for SSJ2. In Budokai one, he uses ASSJ and USSJ (called Super Trunks and Super Trunks 2). In Budokai 3, it's clearly supossed to be SSJ2. I haven't played Budokai 2 in a while, but from what I remember it's the same as Budokai 3. Either way, the video games aren't considered a reliable source while writing this article, anyway.-- Koji Dude 19:27, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Who wrote that it isn't? Probably some disgruntled fanboy who doesn't like GT. GT IS canon as well, Toriyama even joined the series later on. Even if Toriyama had no involvement it would STILL be canon and I have seen no official source say that GT or what happened in it isn't canon, please provide an official source saying proving me wrong. TJ Spyke 04:32, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
The point is that DBGT was made by TOEI and was anime only and not part of the orignal manga...accept it...and i must say...THANK GOD GT is not canon!! I watched GT and it was not that bad, but still the plotholes...the "developments" of the characters...pfff —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.145.149.85 ( talk • contribs)
What is canon is what made by the original author. Toriyama has next to nothing to do with GT. He just made some designs in the early production process (SSJ4 isn't from him). It simply means that GT is technically canon because it was approved by the original author in the beginning.
Toriyama didn't create Super #17, or the Black Dragons, or the fight with Baby. Which make GT a work 'much lower in the canon than the previous series, which were directly based on Toriyama's manga.
TJ Spike, do you know that DB isn't an original creation of Tôei Animation ? It was an adaptation of Toriyama's manga, which is the "original manga" which Koji speaks about. It's the "true and undisputable work". And obviously, GT isn't much faithful to that.
There are some plot holes in DB and DBZ, but that makes them a lowxer canon than the manga. Like GT.
Folken de Fanel 20:47, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
lol...I cant believe ppl have argued so hard about this here. We'll end it here by disproving the "Only what original Author writes is Cannon". Ok here goes: 1) Superman movies (not only that but Superman returns <written by a NEW writter YEARS and blessed by DC comics> removed #3 and #4 from the official cannon. 2) Star Trek- Gene Rodenbary (or whatever his name) had constatly left matters of "cannon-non cannon" to Paramount even when alive. If Akira were to die today, then would it be considered cannon? The fact that someone were to argue "But he's still alive.............thus has nothing to do with Star Trek!!" makes no sense. 3) Jesus...ANY series for that matter. "LEgend of Zelda", the recent "Saint Seiya" changes <the new movies are considered CANON by the company and had 0% to do with the official writter> (killing the argument right there)
Also.........ppl say "Akira worked on GT" as if he showed up 1 day to the office for 20 minutes and left. The official "GT" book (that came out all those years ago in 97)and interviews later say how he literally spent months in the offices, important meetings and pretty much came up with the concept of the show himself (the space part, though he said the loved Goku turning into a kid again.........it completed the ark). - And to put "Dragonball" in a different universe then let's say..........EVERY SERIES EVER MADE......is just...wrong.
What else? Highlander 1 and 2 was created and directed by the same 2 guys. Yet Davis/Panzer said in "3" that "2 never happened". - What else? Jesus, there are endless arguments to this (I could write 2 books on it). Fortunately for some.............and UNfortunately for others.........GT is official. (just bad writting doesnt change it ..........and that's ignoring the great parts of GT <IE: Bebi fight, the episode when Piccolo dies, Super 17 start, Super Saiyan 4, Golden Ozaru being a fantastic idea, SSJ4 Gogeta being incredibly original, etc etc etc. THE END of the argument finally.
YA like you said to me before it should have been put into a forum. just went a little crazy on writing and explain. Try to say on target next time Suit. You and Dai will set me straight soon. Heat P 06:19, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
i have a great picture of ss5 goku you know the famous picture i think we should make a section entitled fake fanmade supersaiyans in order to let people that dont know about af that any thing beyond ss4 is fake —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Big foot123456789 ( talk • contribs) .
I forgot to mention, I took out the picture of LSSJ Broly (the one of him running with the quote). The picture was more or less useless, and kinda squeezed the paragraph making it look a little sloppy. We really only need one pic (as only one person uses it), and the full body shot is more or less perfect.-- Koji Dude 19:59, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I know this is irrelevant, but, could somebody explain to me how in the bloody hell that thing with the double entry section happened?-- Koji Dude 22:31, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
That's just the basic fair use rational for pictures. The fair use policy says to use a limited number of pictures for an article to illustrate it. The pictures should be illustrating the text. There's already a picture for that. It just isn't needed. Nemu 22:56, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Some guy keeps changing defined to sharper it isgetting really annoying
Added the section before reading that it had been suggested and rejected. I don't see a reason not to have it, as long as it's made clear that it's fake, since it seems to be a source of rumor even these days and this would help clarify it... but if people are REALLY serious about ignoring the AF myth in its entirety, please feel free to revert
--((Original Poster))
Moved, on suggestion, to the Dragon Ball AF page
--((Original Poster))
I couldn't help but notice that the descriptions for the Super Saiyan forms sound like they were written by 12 year old fanboys. Not much extensive vocabulary is involved in this article, instead it says things like the "hair gets really spikey and sticks out in all directions"......ok..... well so doesn't the next form of Super Saiyan. The descriptions aren't very detailed either, they don't compare and contrast details between the different forms (e.g: Super Saiyan 2 body lightning is ALWAYS blue), they simply explain what they look like. I also believe that we should use manga as primary reference, because that is the original media of Dragonball, making it the most accurate. Majinvegeta
The descriptions do sound like a 12 year old wrote them
It says
"It has been speculated that, because Goten and Trunks take after their human halves (supposedly because of lack of a tail) they are weaker than pure Saiyans, and thus cannot transcend the level of Super Saiyan 2. This is most..."
Shouldn't this be edited as Gohan went to SSJ2 during his fight with Cell?
In the first Broly movie, doesn't Broly turn into a fake super-saiyan when the attacks Guko in the castle at night
What happened to this part of the article? Broly's unique transformation was once on here, and even the DBZ games (notably Budokai 3) identified Broly's unique form as "Legendary Super Saiyan". Why is the Legendary Super Saiyan part of the article deleted?
Also Dai I have a question for you. Are you going back on you own words about Broly's LSS form being a transformation? Just wondering because in the Archives 1 there is a Article call Legendary medium? and in it you yourself call it a transformation several times. So have you found a source, or are going by what MV said now? do not take it personal Again do not take it personal. It was just something i found and want to ask as not to keep going on the transformation discussion, and i like to know the source if there is one. Thats all.
Heat P
06:26, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Ok look this site said you can edit any information that you feel is incorrect and I did that, checking the minor edit box and typing in a short editing summary the way I'm suppose to. A few times though, someone (probably the admins) keeps switching it back to what it was before. Ok, this is what I was trying to do: In the "Super Saiyan Levels", I wanted everyone to know that Broly in his Legendary form is STRONGER than the Super Saiyan 2 level but these idiots don't seem to think so. I've done strength calculations and I know for a fact that once he turns Legendary he can kill any Super Saiyan 2! You people keep underestimating his power and changing my CORRECT edits back to the WRONG way they were and I'm starting to get really fed up with it. For further clarification as to why I think this, just ask me and I will gladly explain and also someone please tell me WHO is changing my edits and WHY. Its really annoying. thanks >.<* —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrapidfire ( talk • contribs)
Broly in a later movie faces off against gohan in his adult state who could go super saiyan 2, Gohan lost the fight and was saved by krillin, in the end to defeat broly it took a combined Kamehameha of two super saiyan 2's (Goku and Gohan) and young Super saiyan Goten
YOu still seem to be ignoring the real facts, weather or not gohan was super saiyan or super saiyan 2 is just speculation, the fact is gohan was able to go super saiyan 2, broly was able to defeat gohan by himself, gohan with the combined power of goten and either the power of goku or the inspiration of him given to his sons.
Well to WHOEVER wrote that, Dai made it clear to me and i will make clear to you, Gohan going SS2 or if he can during the movie has nothing to do with the discussion. but i will say again to you. GO...BACK...AND...LOOK...AT...THE...MOVIE. there is no speculation, there is no opinion, it is a FACT about Gohan. If he did go SS2 then it would different story. So why you trying to hit up a debate over something ALREADY fixed with Facts?? SO drop it,Thank you!!! If you wanna talk about Gohan going SS2 in movie 10, create a new subject on that to discuss. Heat P 04:25, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Shut up, Bulletproof. I aint no fanboy I'm just stating what I believe is true and the most annoying part is that no matter how many different ways I state them, you people STILL dont listen! Are you guys friggin stupid?! And dont even get me started about how Legendary comes before a SS Full Power. Movie 10 SS Broly (w/ blonde hair) would be equal to that form while Legendary is FAR stronger and NOT just "a little stronger" than a SS2 making him close to a SS3. Sure the forms you put down are all in order of appearance but people are STILL gonna base them as the order of STRENGTH that they are since thats what it basically looks like anyway. but still I KNOW that ANY SS2 could NEVER hold a candle to a Legendary Super Saiyan! I mean CMON! Why would a guy with that term "LEGENDARY" be able to get beat so easily like he did in the movies?? Gee, I dont know..maybe cuz the creator had to betray his TRUE POTENTIAL so that the heroes could win just like they do in EVERY movie so that there can still be more episodes?! YES. Now do you understand what I'm saying?! Furthermore, I never said that Gohan went SS2 in Movie 10- how could he if he didnt have the lightning in his transformation? My calculations are NOT crazy so open your damn minds already and FACE THE TRUTH THAT I'M SPEAKING!
You need to stop basing things solely off the movies. I swear to God I'm so sick of the people that always do that. I could care less if you consider my subject to be "original information" because I KNOW its the TRUTH! I mean seriously who cares if he didn't fight a SSJ2 in the movies because remember in Movie 8 how SSJ Vegeta tried kicking him in the head while Broly was a SSJ? He didn't even feel it so what makes you think that a SSJ2 could hurt him once he goes LEGENDARY? Theres not much chance for them once he does because hes a lot stronger than any ordinary SSJ2 since Legendary is his SECOND transformation. Thats the unique type of power that his Legendary form really gives him. You see what I mean? Just like his UNRESTRICTED SSJ form is equivalent to "SSJ Full Power" but doesnt keep increasing. It takes a SSJ3 or Fusion to be able to actually kill Broly and don't count the movies where the creator had to betray his true potential so that the heros would win. that sucks because we all know he could've killed them all off in no time if it wasnt for those darn flukes. Like in Movie 8, Goku had to beg everyone for their power like some desperate little pus5y because Broly would've killed them all with ease if he didn't. Even if they all were SSJ2's he STILL could've taken them out since his power keeps growing while being in his Legendary form. He even SAID (in movie 8) he was getting stronger so stop underestimating his true power. In Movie 10, he had the heros right where he wanted them AGAIN and Kid Trunks's little blast distracted him making yet ANOTHER stupid cheap ending to a Broly movie where he got blown into the sun from the desperate triple kamehameha waves. And don't even get me started on "Bio Broly" that was the worst movie ever. Broly could never reach his full power with all that crap all over him it just slowed him down more making him look stupid. Keep in mind that even though all of his movies had cheap stupid endings, he still put up a hell of a fight throughout all of it and he wasnt even trying hard. You never really saw the full menace of Broly in his movies. You know it and I know it. And by the way I'm going to every DBZ related website who has made the mistake that a SSJ2 is stronger than Broly and correct them. Anyone who thinks this is full of bull****! KEEP IT THE WAY ITS SUPPOSE TO BE! BROLY IN HIS LEGENDARY FORM IS STRONGER THAN ANY SSJ2. It even says so in the new "Dragonball Z Budokai: Tenkaichi" Players Guide. In the Broly section it says: "Even a Super Saiyan 2 Goku isn't able to do much damage to Broly" and by this I mean in his LEGENDARY form only. go ahead and read it if you dont believe me. I hope you understood everything I'm trying to tell you and I won't give up until this error is CORRECTED! Thank you
(And tell me how to sign my comments if I didnt cuz Im new here- JRapidfire)
again watch how you write and DO NOT USE ANY PROFANITY!!! and I will say sorry for my saying you said Gohan went SS2 that was my mistake. However having a form and using it is two different things. Heat P 10:23, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Why is Onio even in there? He is just a parody. He is not in the dragonball Z Continuity.
Onio being a Super Saiyan was just a joke in a parody. People who become SS as a joke in something that has nothing to do with DBZ except a few cameos (that conflict with the series' timeline by the way) don't need to be listed.--
Koji
Dude
(Contributions)
02:53, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree.
There is a mistake on the known users for this transformation state. FPSSJ allows the saiyan user to transform to super saiyan instantly without alot of unessesary energy lost due to powering up. It is shown by all saiyans who reached the super saiyan state could do this after mastering the transformation. This can be seen in episode free the future for Future Trunks, during the world tournament and the buu saga when Goten and Trunks fight as super saiyans, and by vegeta in the buu saga everytime he transforms.
somthing that i have been finding odd, i have been searching up on some of the fusions after watching the end of GT and i am curious about gogeta, ive seen a page stating he is a super 4 but for some random reason has completely changed features, some people argueing that he is super saiyan 5 explaining why he looks so drastically different from 4. The confusing one is the one that says he is neither, i do know that in GT the fusion is never said to have a name and nor does it have a confirmed Super Saiyan level, so are there any official sources on this? I dont want oppinions on this, raging fans just screaming AF is fake which has nothing to do with this, or people going its 5 because he looks different, what i want is like an Toei statement, and if there is not then a heads up saying its not so i know what i am reading is bias fan based or official.
The official information on this is where?
I'm mimiking the person who originally asked this question (whoever it was) ......speculation. And whoever you are that asked this question, you won't get a Toriyama statement because he personally had nothing to do with the story of GT, GT was made by Toei Animation, not him. I think Toriyama could give two *poops* about Super Saiyan 4 and GT. Majinvegeta
well it would be better asked here because what could be on wikipedia could actually be wrong, and majinvegeta does not seem knowledgeble or helpful
Speculations have no place in these articles as stated by Wikipedia themsleves. Yet there are many speculations riddled about this article. I think this entire article needs to be re-written, I don't find the wording of it the least bit entertianing or even in the slightest intellectually appealing. Majinvegeta
The whole he could not be bothered to go super saiyan 3 and 2 is wrong, as stated in the animie, Vegetto did not go beyond super saiyan not because he "could not be bothered to", which is a poor way to describe it anywaym he did not go beyond a super saiyan because while in protara fusion they would not be able to revert from their super saiyan form as stated by the elder kai. alot of these describetions need to be ammended and repaired, just one of many examples
I think this is an unwritten rule, if it is correct, I believe that only Mastered Super Saiyans can ascend to level 2. That would explain why Goku, Gohan and vegeta were only able to ascend, no one else mastered Super Saiyan therefore did not ascend or just went to level 3. Vegeta had mastered it by the Buu saga.
Full Power Super Saiyan is when a saiyan has fully mastered their super saiyan power, meaning they do not have to waste energy to transform, as stated by goku in the Cell saga when him and gohan were staying in their super saiyan forms. the effect of this is saiyans do not waste as much power while transformed and are able to instantly transform without unessesary power loss and long periods of powering up.
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
Since the talk page was getting so long. If you would like to continue past conversations or have something to discuss about the current article, please do so below. Voice of Treason 18:44, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Throughout all of the Dragonball series, GT is the only one with a female ( Pan) who's even 1/4 saiyan. I want to know why females can't go super saiyan. I heard that Akira had a hard time making them look like SSJs or something like that and when I tried to picture Pan as a SSJ, it ended up looking like an ordinary blond girl (just with spiky hair.) -- Sasuke-kun27 21:17, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
It was never stated that female Saiyans cannot go SSJ or higher, in fact they probably can, however both awnsers have been said here. Both Pan and Bulla (Bra) never had the motivation to become one and Akira Toriyama did not know how to make female SSJ look good, in fact, he also had the problem with regular female saiyans, since none have appeared. The female saiyans you get to see in flashbacks and in the bardock special, like Fasha, are not cannon, created by TOEI and not by Akira Toriyama. Just for the good record, Akira Toriyama did not create GT, he only helped a little with some character designs.
Just putting this out there, but I also noticed that they don't have any tails either. Sasuke-kun27 23:41, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
i know dbaf is just a hoax or fan art whatever but can anyone tell me where are pics of anything higher than than ss10?
Why is he still listed as an SS even after I changed it? Majin Vegeta didn't have the electricity with him half the time. He was an SS2. So is Vegeto.
That's Majin Vegeta with no electricty. He was an SS2 the whole time and never powered down.- indianhitman 7/29/2006
That page Majin Vegeta as electricity
That page he doesn't.
No electricty
Majin Vegeta was always an SS2. His power had been unlocked and as long as He had that M on his head he was an SS2. He can never power down from that state.
Now SS has no electricity and SS2 has electricity. Vegeto had electricity. How can all evidence put Vegeto as SS, when SS doesn't have electricity.
No electricity. he was fighting.
"None of which has anything to do with Vegetto."
Yes it does. They were both SS2.
Gohan doesn't always have his electricity either.
Anyway saying that an SS2 always has electricity is like saying that an SS always has a glow. They aren't always there. But when an SS has electricty, it means that they are SS2. SS does not have eletricity. I don't know how you can keep arguing against this. I'm not going to post anything else.- indianhitman, 29/7/06
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume35/Db35ch02/350212.gif http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume35/Db35ch02/350213.gif
Gohan no electricity.
Vegeta was Majin. We know this because of the M on his head. He can not power down from the SS2. Vegeto had it at that point. Which means that he was at SS2. The rest of the fight he may have been SS. But he definilty went SS2. Proof the electricity.- indianhitman
This is officially stated in the Daizenshuus (The official Dragonball guides). The only people to achieve Super Saiyan 2 were Gohan, Goku and Vegeta. Majin Vegeta was Super Saiyan 2, Goku in those scans was SS2 as well, but he didn't have electricity either. Majinvegeta
Why does this name keep coming up? It's a fan name! There are two known forms that are between the Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 form. People keep calling them Ultra Super Saiyan 1 and Ultra Super Saiyan 2 or Ascended Super Saiyan and Ultra Super Saiyan. All wrong names.
The first should only be called Super Saiyan 2nd Grade since such a name comes closest to the Japanese term for the form, namely Super Saiyan Dai Ni dankai.
The second should only be called Super Saiyan 3rd Grade since such a name comes closest to the Japanese term for the form, namely Super Saiyan Dai San Dankai.
The most worst name for Super Saiyan 2nd Grade, would be Ascended Super Saiyan, since the true Acended Super Saiyan is in fact Super Saiyan 2. Goku and Vegeta wanted to reach a higher SSJ form during the Androids/Cell arc. They wanted to experience the boost in power, speed and agility all over again, but now from the base of Super Saiyan, meaning their goal was Super Saiyan 2. Super Saiyan 2nd Grade and Super Saiyan 3rd Grade are try-outs of becoming a Super Saiyan 2, thus making Super Saiyan 2, the true ascended Saiyan like Goku also states.
Core4Sure
I guess what KojiDude says is true, nevertheless as to awnser to Daishokaioshin i got my information from Daizenshuu EX, which gives a pretty good explanation:
The USSJ stages (two of them) would each be considered, as Goku puts it in the original Japanese dialogue, "ichi-dankai no henshin" ("transformations of the first stage"). However, these two USSJ stages are thought of by Vegeta and Trunks as "Sûpâ Saiya-jin dai ni-dankai" and "Sûpâ Saiya-jin dai san-dankai" ("stage 2 / stage 3 of Super Saiyan," with "ni" and "san" meaning "two" and "three," respectively) Technically, these descriptions would probably better fit the actual SSJ2 and SSJ3, but we'll use them here as Vegeta & Trunks would.
Sûpâ Saiya-jin dai ichi-dankai (the normal Super Saiyan, or SSJ1)
Sûpâ Saiya-jin dai ni-dankai (USSJ 1; the second stage of SSJ1)
Sûpâ Saiya-jin dai san-dankai (USSJ 2; the third stage of SSJ1)
Since they say it could be confused with SSJ2 and SSJ3, the name 2nd and 3rd grade would apply better, but anyway as Kojidude said there both listed, so I guess it's not a problem.. Core4Sure
For the article for Ascended Super Saiyan, please do not put in the sentence(and is more defined in appearance than before) ever again. The previous sentence(Also the hair gets longer and is is slightly sharper in appearance) is much better. Because the hair of an Ascended Super Saiyan is not defined as previously thought but more sharper in appearance and texture.
64.107.164.130 20:58, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Why was some text of the false super saiyan form deleted. Goku used the form again in the otherworld and because he had reached SSJ during that time, he was in full control. Why was this deleted?
True and I know that it is filler, but the filler was made by TOEI just like they made DBZ Movie 4. So even though Goku did not need the false super saiyan transformation, it was probably a reference to the movie made by TOEI.
Also in the AWT saga it possible that Toei made a mistake. They wanted to use the Super Saiyan transformation as a surprise to use against Pikkon in the finals, but had the animation of Goku going SS ready to go. So with the animation already drawn they may have decided to make Goku use some of his Super Saiyan power and given of the appearance that he turned into the Giji (or whatever the name they got now) SS instead. Though it states that he doesn't have full control of the power is due to him not being a SS at all at the time of the movie. Now he has full control and can tap into his SS powers without going SS. The only difference is Goku has is pupils showing in his eyes as he doesn't in the movie. You both have a point but that could explain somethings as to the apparent appearance of that form in the AWT. Heat P 05:52, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Trunks' USSJ isn't "mistaken" for SSJ2. In Budokai one, he uses ASSJ and USSJ (called Super Trunks and Super Trunks 2). In Budokai 3, it's clearly supossed to be SSJ2. I haven't played Budokai 2 in a while, but from what I remember it's the same as Budokai 3. Either way, the video games aren't considered a reliable source while writing this article, anyway.-- Koji Dude 19:27, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Who wrote that it isn't? Probably some disgruntled fanboy who doesn't like GT. GT IS canon as well, Toriyama even joined the series later on. Even if Toriyama had no involvement it would STILL be canon and I have seen no official source say that GT or what happened in it isn't canon, please provide an official source saying proving me wrong. TJ Spyke 04:32, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
The point is that DBGT was made by TOEI and was anime only and not part of the orignal manga...accept it...and i must say...THANK GOD GT is not canon!! I watched GT and it was not that bad, but still the plotholes...the "developments" of the characters...pfff —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.145.149.85 ( talk • contribs)
What is canon is what made by the original author. Toriyama has next to nothing to do with GT. He just made some designs in the early production process (SSJ4 isn't from him). It simply means that GT is technically canon because it was approved by the original author in the beginning.
Toriyama didn't create Super #17, or the Black Dragons, or the fight with Baby. Which make GT a work 'much lower in the canon than the previous series, which were directly based on Toriyama's manga.
TJ Spike, do you know that DB isn't an original creation of Tôei Animation ? It was an adaptation of Toriyama's manga, which is the "original manga" which Koji speaks about. It's the "true and undisputable work". And obviously, GT isn't much faithful to that.
There are some plot holes in DB and DBZ, but that makes them a lowxer canon than the manga. Like GT.
Folken de Fanel 20:47, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
lol...I cant believe ppl have argued so hard about this here. We'll end it here by disproving the "Only what original Author writes is Cannon". Ok here goes: 1) Superman movies (not only that but Superman returns <written by a NEW writter YEARS and blessed by DC comics> removed #3 and #4 from the official cannon. 2) Star Trek- Gene Rodenbary (or whatever his name) had constatly left matters of "cannon-non cannon" to Paramount even when alive. If Akira were to die today, then would it be considered cannon? The fact that someone were to argue "But he's still alive.............thus has nothing to do with Star Trek!!" makes no sense. 3) Jesus...ANY series for that matter. "LEgend of Zelda", the recent "Saint Seiya" changes <the new movies are considered CANON by the company and had 0% to do with the official writter> (killing the argument right there)
Also.........ppl say "Akira worked on GT" as if he showed up 1 day to the office for 20 minutes and left. The official "GT" book (that came out all those years ago in 97)and interviews later say how he literally spent months in the offices, important meetings and pretty much came up with the concept of the show himself (the space part, though he said the loved Goku turning into a kid again.........it completed the ark). - And to put "Dragonball" in a different universe then let's say..........EVERY SERIES EVER MADE......is just...wrong.
What else? Highlander 1 and 2 was created and directed by the same 2 guys. Yet Davis/Panzer said in "3" that "2 never happened". - What else? Jesus, there are endless arguments to this (I could write 2 books on it). Fortunately for some.............and UNfortunately for others.........GT is official. (just bad writting doesnt change it ..........and that's ignoring the great parts of GT <IE: Bebi fight, the episode when Piccolo dies, Super 17 start, Super Saiyan 4, Golden Ozaru being a fantastic idea, SSJ4 Gogeta being incredibly original, etc etc etc. THE END of the argument finally.
YA like you said to me before it should have been put into a forum. just went a little crazy on writing and explain. Try to say on target next time Suit. You and Dai will set me straight soon. Heat P 06:19, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
i have a great picture of ss5 goku you know the famous picture i think we should make a section entitled fake fanmade supersaiyans in order to let people that dont know about af that any thing beyond ss4 is fake —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Big foot123456789 ( talk • contribs) .
I forgot to mention, I took out the picture of LSSJ Broly (the one of him running with the quote). The picture was more or less useless, and kinda squeezed the paragraph making it look a little sloppy. We really only need one pic (as only one person uses it), and the full body shot is more or less perfect.-- Koji Dude 19:59, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I know this is irrelevant, but, could somebody explain to me how in the bloody hell that thing with the double entry section happened?-- Koji Dude 22:31, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
That's just the basic fair use rational for pictures. The fair use policy says to use a limited number of pictures for an article to illustrate it. The pictures should be illustrating the text. There's already a picture for that. It just isn't needed. Nemu 22:56, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Some guy keeps changing defined to sharper it isgetting really annoying
Added the section before reading that it had been suggested and rejected. I don't see a reason not to have it, as long as it's made clear that it's fake, since it seems to be a source of rumor even these days and this would help clarify it... but if people are REALLY serious about ignoring the AF myth in its entirety, please feel free to revert
--((Original Poster))
Moved, on suggestion, to the Dragon Ball AF page
--((Original Poster))
I couldn't help but notice that the descriptions for the Super Saiyan forms sound like they were written by 12 year old fanboys. Not much extensive vocabulary is involved in this article, instead it says things like the "hair gets really spikey and sticks out in all directions"......ok..... well so doesn't the next form of Super Saiyan. The descriptions aren't very detailed either, they don't compare and contrast details between the different forms (e.g: Super Saiyan 2 body lightning is ALWAYS blue), they simply explain what they look like. I also believe that we should use manga as primary reference, because that is the original media of Dragonball, making it the most accurate. Majinvegeta
The descriptions do sound like a 12 year old wrote them
It says
"It has been speculated that, because Goten and Trunks take after their human halves (supposedly because of lack of a tail) they are weaker than pure Saiyans, and thus cannot transcend the level of Super Saiyan 2. This is most..."
Shouldn't this be edited as Gohan went to SSJ2 during his fight with Cell?
In the first Broly movie, doesn't Broly turn into a fake super-saiyan when the attacks Guko in the castle at night
What happened to this part of the article? Broly's unique transformation was once on here, and even the DBZ games (notably Budokai 3) identified Broly's unique form as "Legendary Super Saiyan". Why is the Legendary Super Saiyan part of the article deleted?
Also Dai I have a question for you. Are you going back on you own words about Broly's LSS form being a transformation? Just wondering because in the Archives 1 there is a Article call Legendary medium? and in it you yourself call it a transformation several times. So have you found a source, or are going by what MV said now? do not take it personal Again do not take it personal. It was just something i found and want to ask as not to keep going on the transformation discussion, and i like to know the source if there is one. Thats all.
Heat P
06:26, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Ok look this site said you can edit any information that you feel is incorrect and I did that, checking the minor edit box and typing in a short editing summary the way I'm suppose to. A few times though, someone (probably the admins) keeps switching it back to what it was before. Ok, this is what I was trying to do: In the "Super Saiyan Levels", I wanted everyone to know that Broly in his Legendary form is STRONGER than the Super Saiyan 2 level but these idiots don't seem to think so. I've done strength calculations and I know for a fact that once he turns Legendary he can kill any Super Saiyan 2! You people keep underestimating his power and changing my CORRECT edits back to the WRONG way they were and I'm starting to get really fed up with it. For further clarification as to why I think this, just ask me and I will gladly explain and also someone please tell me WHO is changing my edits and WHY. Its really annoying. thanks >.<* —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrapidfire ( talk • contribs)
Broly in a later movie faces off against gohan in his adult state who could go super saiyan 2, Gohan lost the fight and was saved by krillin, in the end to defeat broly it took a combined Kamehameha of two super saiyan 2's (Goku and Gohan) and young Super saiyan Goten
YOu still seem to be ignoring the real facts, weather or not gohan was super saiyan or super saiyan 2 is just speculation, the fact is gohan was able to go super saiyan 2, broly was able to defeat gohan by himself, gohan with the combined power of goten and either the power of goku or the inspiration of him given to his sons.
Well to WHOEVER wrote that, Dai made it clear to me and i will make clear to you, Gohan going SS2 or if he can during the movie has nothing to do with the discussion. but i will say again to you. GO...BACK...AND...LOOK...AT...THE...MOVIE. there is no speculation, there is no opinion, it is a FACT about Gohan. If he did go SS2 then it would different story. So why you trying to hit up a debate over something ALREADY fixed with Facts?? SO drop it,Thank you!!! If you wanna talk about Gohan going SS2 in movie 10, create a new subject on that to discuss. Heat P 04:25, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Shut up, Bulletproof. I aint no fanboy I'm just stating what I believe is true and the most annoying part is that no matter how many different ways I state them, you people STILL dont listen! Are you guys friggin stupid?! And dont even get me started about how Legendary comes before a SS Full Power. Movie 10 SS Broly (w/ blonde hair) would be equal to that form while Legendary is FAR stronger and NOT just "a little stronger" than a SS2 making him close to a SS3. Sure the forms you put down are all in order of appearance but people are STILL gonna base them as the order of STRENGTH that they are since thats what it basically looks like anyway. but still I KNOW that ANY SS2 could NEVER hold a candle to a Legendary Super Saiyan! I mean CMON! Why would a guy with that term "LEGENDARY" be able to get beat so easily like he did in the movies?? Gee, I dont know..maybe cuz the creator had to betray his TRUE POTENTIAL so that the heroes could win just like they do in EVERY movie so that there can still be more episodes?! YES. Now do you understand what I'm saying?! Furthermore, I never said that Gohan went SS2 in Movie 10- how could he if he didnt have the lightning in his transformation? My calculations are NOT crazy so open your damn minds already and FACE THE TRUTH THAT I'M SPEAKING!
You need to stop basing things solely off the movies. I swear to God I'm so sick of the people that always do that. I could care less if you consider my subject to be "original information" because I KNOW its the TRUTH! I mean seriously who cares if he didn't fight a SSJ2 in the movies because remember in Movie 8 how SSJ Vegeta tried kicking him in the head while Broly was a SSJ? He didn't even feel it so what makes you think that a SSJ2 could hurt him once he goes LEGENDARY? Theres not much chance for them once he does because hes a lot stronger than any ordinary SSJ2 since Legendary is his SECOND transformation. Thats the unique type of power that his Legendary form really gives him. You see what I mean? Just like his UNRESTRICTED SSJ form is equivalent to "SSJ Full Power" but doesnt keep increasing. It takes a SSJ3 or Fusion to be able to actually kill Broly and don't count the movies where the creator had to betray his true potential so that the heros would win. that sucks because we all know he could've killed them all off in no time if it wasnt for those darn flukes. Like in Movie 8, Goku had to beg everyone for their power like some desperate little pus5y because Broly would've killed them all with ease if he didn't. Even if they all were SSJ2's he STILL could've taken them out since his power keeps growing while being in his Legendary form. He even SAID (in movie 8) he was getting stronger so stop underestimating his true power. In Movie 10, he had the heros right where he wanted them AGAIN and Kid Trunks's little blast distracted him making yet ANOTHER stupid cheap ending to a Broly movie where he got blown into the sun from the desperate triple kamehameha waves. And don't even get me started on "Bio Broly" that was the worst movie ever. Broly could never reach his full power with all that crap all over him it just slowed him down more making him look stupid. Keep in mind that even though all of his movies had cheap stupid endings, he still put up a hell of a fight throughout all of it and he wasnt even trying hard. You never really saw the full menace of Broly in his movies. You know it and I know it. And by the way I'm going to every DBZ related website who has made the mistake that a SSJ2 is stronger than Broly and correct them. Anyone who thinks this is full of bull****! KEEP IT THE WAY ITS SUPPOSE TO BE! BROLY IN HIS LEGENDARY FORM IS STRONGER THAN ANY SSJ2. It even says so in the new "Dragonball Z Budokai: Tenkaichi" Players Guide. In the Broly section it says: "Even a Super Saiyan 2 Goku isn't able to do much damage to Broly" and by this I mean in his LEGENDARY form only. go ahead and read it if you dont believe me. I hope you understood everything I'm trying to tell you and I won't give up until this error is CORRECTED! Thank you
(And tell me how to sign my comments if I didnt cuz Im new here- JRapidfire)
again watch how you write and DO NOT USE ANY PROFANITY!!! and I will say sorry for my saying you said Gohan went SS2 that was my mistake. However having a form and using it is two different things. Heat P 10:23, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Why is Onio even in there? He is just a parody. He is not in the dragonball Z Continuity.
Onio being a Super Saiyan was just a joke in a parody. People who become SS as a joke in something that has nothing to do with DBZ except a few cameos (that conflict with the series' timeline by the way) don't need to be listed.--
Koji
Dude
(Contributions)
02:53, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree.
There is a mistake on the known users for this transformation state. FPSSJ allows the saiyan user to transform to super saiyan instantly without alot of unessesary energy lost due to powering up. It is shown by all saiyans who reached the super saiyan state could do this after mastering the transformation. This can be seen in episode free the future for Future Trunks, during the world tournament and the buu saga when Goten and Trunks fight as super saiyans, and by vegeta in the buu saga everytime he transforms.
somthing that i have been finding odd, i have been searching up on some of the fusions after watching the end of GT and i am curious about gogeta, ive seen a page stating he is a super 4 but for some random reason has completely changed features, some people argueing that he is super saiyan 5 explaining why he looks so drastically different from 4. The confusing one is the one that says he is neither, i do know that in GT the fusion is never said to have a name and nor does it have a confirmed Super Saiyan level, so are there any official sources on this? I dont want oppinions on this, raging fans just screaming AF is fake which has nothing to do with this, or people going its 5 because he looks different, what i want is like an Toei statement, and if there is not then a heads up saying its not so i know what i am reading is bias fan based or official.
The official information on this is where?
I'm mimiking the person who originally asked this question (whoever it was) ......speculation. And whoever you are that asked this question, you won't get a Toriyama statement because he personally had nothing to do with the story of GT, GT was made by Toei Animation, not him. I think Toriyama could give two *poops* about Super Saiyan 4 and GT. Majinvegeta
well it would be better asked here because what could be on wikipedia could actually be wrong, and majinvegeta does not seem knowledgeble or helpful
Speculations have no place in these articles as stated by Wikipedia themsleves. Yet there are many speculations riddled about this article. I think this entire article needs to be re-written, I don't find the wording of it the least bit entertianing or even in the slightest intellectually appealing. Majinvegeta
The whole he could not be bothered to go super saiyan 3 and 2 is wrong, as stated in the animie, Vegetto did not go beyond super saiyan not because he "could not be bothered to", which is a poor way to describe it anywaym he did not go beyond a super saiyan because while in protara fusion they would not be able to revert from their super saiyan form as stated by the elder kai. alot of these describetions need to be ammended and repaired, just one of many examples
I think this is an unwritten rule, if it is correct, I believe that only Mastered Super Saiyans can ascend to level 2. That would explain why Goku, Gohan and vegeta were only able to ascend, no one else mastered Super Saiyan therefore did not ascend or just went to level 3. Vegeta had mastered it by the Buu saga.
Full Power Super Saiyan is when a saiyan has fully mastered their super saiyan power, meaning they do not have to waste energy to transform, as stated by goku in the Cell saga when him and gohan were staying in their super saiyan forms. the effect of this is saiyans do not waste as much power while transformed and are able to instantly transform without unessesary power loss and long periods of powering up.