This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Sukhoi Su-35 article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
Sukhoi Su-35 has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Good article |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is written in British English with Oxford spelling (colour, realize, organization, analyse; note that -ize is used instead of -ise) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article, which claims to be a Good Article, makes extensive use of unreliable sources (RT, Sputnik, (see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources for both and bmpd.livejournal.com (a blog - see the discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#bmpd.livejournal.com). As such it fails GA criteria 2b - "all inline citations are from reliable sources" - blogs are specifically excluded. How can we fix this article so it is reliably sourced? Nigel Ish ( talk) 18:08, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
On the claim that Rafale successfully jammed Su-35 in war game, that pointed to Global Defense Corp. The site itself, cited Breaking Defense, which has zero mentions about the incident. Here is the original article. Also, Global Defense Corp's section "What We Do", explicitly mentions about its political agenda - against Putinism, Russian propaganda, ...,etc. Which is far from "unbias." Duqus ( Talk)
The quote in the article on supermanoeuvrability appears to be going off-topic. Although it originated with the pilot's experience of flying this plane, it comes across not as about the plane but about supermanoeuvrability in combat. Also the boxout is mannered, unsuited to assisted readers and not what we usually do. If the quote is to be kept then it needs to be integrated into the main text and the relevance to the article explained. I have copied it (inline) to the article on supermanoeuverability, but in this article should it stay or should it go? I think it should go. — Cheers, Steelpillow ( Talk) 21:30, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
In the "Specifications" section it says "12 hardpoints, consisting of 2 wingtip rails, and 10 wing and fuselage stations with a capacity of 8,000 kg (17,630 lb) of ordnance, with provisions to carry combinations of: ...", then all the ordnance that an Su-35 can carry is listed. As long as the 8,000kg limit isn't exceeded, can any 12 weapons be chosen? And is it 1 missile per hardpoint or is it possible to fit more than 1 missile to one hardpoint? In the image at the top of this page https://world-defense.com/threads/f15-ex-overview-specification-performance.5825/ it seems that more than 1 missile is attached to each hardpoint or am I mistaken about that? If I'm correct, is the Su-35 able to do the same? Also what are the weight limits for each hardpoint? i.e. how much weight can each of the 12 hardpoints carry? This article https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/yes-russias-su-35-jet-fighter-one-best-ever-made-128082 says "twelve to fourteen weapons hardpoints". Can someone explain this please? What are the 13th and 14th hardpoints used for? There's a diagram here https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Su-35S-Flanker.html about a quarter of a way down the page that appears to indicate that the Su-35 can only carry 5 anti-ship missiles, but it also looks like it's possible to carry 2 Kh-31s in addition to 5 Kh-59s since the 2 Kh-31s can use different hardpoints, so that would make 7 anti-ship missiles, not 5. I find this all very confusing. If anyone could clarify any of the above I'd appreciate it. I also think the article needs tweaking a bit to make all the above a lot clearer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.25.65.117 ( talk) 08:39, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Current Su-35 and Su-27M are two branches of Flanker family but they are not connected. "The type was originally developed by the Soviet Union from the Su-27 and was known as the Su-27M. " - is about now cancelled Su-27M NOT about current Su-35. — Preceding unsigned comment added by XaHyMaH ( talk • contribs) 15:32, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
Photos have emerged of the burning remnants of what has been identified as a Su-35. Claims being made that this was shot down by Ukraine, likely on April 3rd. Reddit [1] ORYX [2]
Obviously an ongoing conflict, but maybe this should be added? Or maybe a section about hull losses more generally? 98.45.185.205 ( talk) 17:54, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
I support the above proposal. We need to add a section to give unbias coverage of the dozens of these airframes shot down during the unprovoked Ruzzian attack on Europe. We know of the following so far: 4 shot down by friendly fire, 6 shot down by the Ghost of Kyiv, 4 shot down by Patriot batteries, and 7 shot down by Ukrainian Heros via other air defense systems. That is 21 confirmed losses and a significant amount of their inventory. In addition, it should be highlighted that they can no longer be used in the conflict or enter Ukraine airspace due to a lack of pilots and fear of additional losses. We cannot allow this article to be overtaken by the Putin Bots and paid agents. We have to stay neutral and report facts as best we can. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.97.64.107 ( talk) 22:27, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
It is reported on Popular Mechanics too. A recent example of one being blown out of the sky I would think is noteworthy. --Surv1v4l1st ╠ Talk║ Contribs╣ 22:42, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
References
There is a lot of misleading articles on this website (eurasiantimes) such as: [2] I've found this claim nowhere else than on this website
https://eurasiantimes.com/category/south-asia/ The website is promoting a lot Indian technology and possessed Indian Air Force fighters
For the main claim of su-35 technology being transferred to UK and USA, i've found only one outlet talking about it, the express: https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1597094/Russia-fighter-jet-putin-latest citing the RUSI think tank, meanwhile i've found nothing on RUSI about this claim
This should be labelled as a simple claim or thought to have been transferred, there is no reliable sources to make a direct claim that this transfer happened, beside a claim from theexpress which got relayed on that kind of website — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tsunet ( talk • contribs) 10:15, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
References
https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5985387
Does Kommersant count as a reputable source? 2600:1700:B7B0:4D70:CD89:2013:75BC:2CDF ( talk) 18:19, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
There is a common misconception about how Russian aircraft are supposed to be pronounced. The "Su" in Sukhoi aircraft is not an acronym. It is Су from Russian transliterated into English. As such, this aircraft along with all other Sukhoi aircraft with Су in their aircraft designation are pronounced like "sue" in English. Note that all the aircraft pages have an uppercase S and a lowercase u. That's not standard for how acronyms are used anywhere in English so I don't know why some of you think this is a special case. It's not. It's pronounced Su just like how it's spelled. Not S.U. By Russian convention it is an abbreviation of the manufacturer. They pronounce it like they would the first part of the full word. If you want to claim it's actually an acronym what does it even stand for? If you can't even come up with an explanation stop reverting my correct edits. 24.233.97.244 ( talk) 13:18, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Sukhoi Su-35 article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
Sukhoi Su-35 has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Good article |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is written in British English with Oxford spelling (colour, realize, organization, analyse; note that -ize is used instead of -ise) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article, which claims to be a Good Article, makes extensive use of unreliable sources (RT, Sputnik, (see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources for both and bmpd.livejournal.com (a blog - see the discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#bmpd.livejournal.com). As such it fails GA criteria 2b - "all inline citations are from reliable sources" - blogs are specifically excluded. How can we fix this article so it is reliably sourced? Nigel Ish ( talk) 18:08, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
On the claim that Rafale successfully jammed Su-35 in war game, that pointed to Global Defense Corp. The site itself, cited Breaking Defense, which has zero mentions about the incident. Here is the original article. Also, Global Defense Corp's section "What We Do", explicitly mentions about its political agenda - against Putinism, Russian propaganda, ...,etc. Which is far from "unbias." Duqus ( Talk)
The quote in the article on supermanoeuvrability appears to be going off-topic. Although it originated with the pilot's experience of flying this plane, it comes across not as about the plane but about supermanoeuvrability in combat. Also the boxout is mannered, unsuited to assisted readers and not what we usually do. If the quote is to be kept then it needs to be integrated into the main text and the relevance to the article explained. I have copied it (inline) to the article on supermanoeuverability, but in this article should it stay or should it go? I think it should go. — Cheers, Steelpillow ( Talk) 21:30, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
In the "Specifications" section it says "12 hardpoints, consisting of 2 wingtip rails, and 10 wing and fuselage stations with a capacity of 8,000 kg (17,630 lb) of ordnance, with provisions to carry combinations of: ...", then all the ordnance that an Su-35 can carry is listed. As long as the 8,000kg limit isn't exceeded, can any 12 weapons be chosen? And is it 1 missile per hardpoint or is it possible to fit more than 1 missile to one hardpoint? In the image at the top of this page https://world-defense.com/threads/f15-ex-overview-specification-performance.5825/ it seems that more than 1 missile is attached to each hardpoint or am I mistaken about that? If I'm correct, is the Su-35 able to do the same? Also what are the weight limits for each hardpoint? i.e. how much weight can each of the 12 hardpoints carry? This article https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/yes-russias-su-35-jet-fighter-one-best-ever-made-128082 says "twelve to fourteen weapons hardpoints". Can someone explain this please? What are the 13th and 14th hardpoints used for? There's a diagram here https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Su-35S-Flanker.html about a quarter of a way down the page that appears to indicate that the Su-35 can only carry 5 anti-ship missiles, but it also looks like it's possible to carry 2 Kh-31s in addition to 5 Kh-59s since the 2 Kh-31s can use different hardpoints, so that would make 7 anti-ship missiles, not 5. I find this all very confusing. If anyone could clarify any of the above I'd appreciate it. I also think the article needs tweaking a bit to make all the above a lot clearer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.25.65.117 ( talk) 08:39, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Current Su-35 and Su-27M are two branches of Flanker family but they are not connected. "The type was originally developed by the Soviet Union from the Su-27 and was known as the Su-27M. " - is about now cancelled Su-27M NOT about current Su-35. — Preceding unsigned comment added by XaHyMaH ( talk • contribs) 15:32, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
Photos have emerged of the burning remnants of what has been identified as a Su-35. Claims being made that this was shot down by Ukraine, likely on April 3rd. Reddit [1] ORYX [2]
Obviously an ongoing conflict, but maybe this should be added? Or maybe a section about hull losses more generally? 98.45.185.205 ( talk) 17:54, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
I support the above proposal. We need to add a section to give unbias coverage of the dozens of these airframes shot down during the unprovoked Ruzzian attack on Europe. We know of the following so far: 4 shot down by friendly fire, 6 shot down by the Ghost of Kyiv, 4 shot down by Patriot batteries, and 7 shot down by Ukrainian Heros via other air defense systems. That is 21 confirmed losses and a significant amount of their inventory. In addition, it should be highlighted that they can no longer be used in the conflict or enter Ukraine airspace due to a lack of pilots and fear of additional losses. We cannot allow this article to be overtaken by the Putin Bots and paid agents. We have to stay neutral and report facts as best we can. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.97.64.107 ( talk) 22:27, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
It is reported on Popular Mechanics too. A recent example of one being blown out of the sky I would think is noteworthy. --Surv1v4l1st ╠ Talk║ Contribs╣ 22:42, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
References
There is a lot of misleading articles on this website (eurasiantimes) such as: [2] I've found this claim nowhere else than on this website
https://eurasiantimes.com/category/south-asia/ The website is promoting a lot Indian technology and possessed Indian Air Force fighters
For the main claim of su-35 technology being transferred to UK and USA, i've found only one outlet talking about it, the express: https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1597094/Russia-fighter-jet-putin-latest citing the RUSI think tank, meanwhile i've found nothing on RUSI about this claim
This should be labelled as a simple claim or thought to have been transferred, there is no reliable sources to make a direct claim that this transfer happened, beside a claim from theexpress which got relayed on that kind of website — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tsunet ( talk • contribs) 10:15, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
References
https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5985387
Does Kommersant count as a reputable source? 2600:1700:B7B0:4D70:CD89:2013:75BC:2CDF ( talk) 18:19, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
There is a common misconception about how Russian aircraft are supposed to be pronounced. The "Su" in Sukhoi aircraft is not an acronym. It is Су from Russian transliterated into English. As such, this aircraft along with all other Sukhoi aircraft with Су in their aircraft designation are pronounced like "sue" in English. Note that all the aircraft pages have an uppercase S and a lowercase u. That's not standard for how acronyms are used anywhere in English so I don't know why some of you think this is a special case. It's not. It's pronounced Su just like how it's spelled. Not S.U. By Russian convention it is an abbreviation of the manufacturer. They pronounce it like they would the first part of the full word. If you want to claim it's actually an acronym what does it even stand for? If you can't even come up with an explanation stop reverting my correct edits. 24.233.97.244 ( talk) 13:18, 8 October 2023 (UTC)