A summary of this article appears in Local government in England. |
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This all looks a bit odd to be honest. There seems to be no mention of the Local Authority admin level. There's a section outlining changes "proposed for 2004". Is the artical just out of date?
An explanation of the difference between "Cities" and "Cities and Boroughs" would be useful here. Vicki Rosenzweig
This is an absolutely weird article; the administrative regions of England are as follows:
jimfbleak 15:21 1 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Yes it's certainly odd, but I expect the CIA got their classifications from somewhere. It would be nice to trace where they did come from before replacing them with more up-to-date groupings. Incidentally-
The regions named certainly match those on the Ordnance Survey administratvie map of GB, so it's just the groupings that are odd. Andy G 19:55 1 Jul 2003 (UTC)
By what logic is e.g. Milton Keynes an "Administrative county"? It has never been a county, and is at present known as a "Unitary Authority". Andy G 19:11, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Oh. Mea culpa. I see we also have a "County of Bath and North East Somerset". I get the feeling the term "county" has been hijacked to describe any old legislative area the government want, rather than what people normally think of as a county. I can't see a DJ reading out a letter from "Maisie in Bath and North East Somerset". Andy G 18:52, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)
This article needs updating, as an Assembly referenum is only going to be held in the NE now. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.86.157.83 ( talk • contribs) .
I think this statement about Lord-Lieutenancy counties is questionable: These counties are sometimes used by people when describing where they live in England. I've never heard or seen anyone refer to where they come from with reference to a Lord-Lieutenant's seat. It sounds unlikely to me. Is there any evidence for this?
Secondly, is the City of London actually a London borough? If the city's authority is legally different shouldn't it have its own listing as 'county-level subnational entities' on this page? Also, who actually governs the inns of court? Are they local authorities in their own right, or areas that are not within any local authority?
Lastly, if The "shire counties" were also created in 1974 and are legally known as non-metropolitan counties why are we calling them "shire counties"? Isn't it better to stick to legal names rather than making up alternative names and putting them in quotation marks? Stringops 17:06, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Should this reflect Local government in Scotland and move to Local government in England? (currently redirects here, and more articles link to this redirect than any other) MRSC 17:35, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Just thought I'd point out that Bedfordshire is actually in the East region, not the Southeast, so it's in the wrong position in the table. I would try to do it myself, but I'm not sure how to edit tables in Wikipedia! Can anyone help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.127.142 ( talk) 12:19, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Should Berkshire appear in the Shire County section? Has it not been replaced in its entirety by 6 Unitary Authorities (though it still remains as a ceremonial county)? And why does IoW, which is a unitary authority, have a county council - isn't this the same as all other unitary authorites? And if it is to be a "county unitary authority", then should Herefordshire also have the same status? Bazonka ( talk) 20:58, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
One of the numbers in the first image is wrong - there are 46 unitary authorities, not 41. 84.65.52.11 ( talk) 22:46, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
With last year's changes to unitary authorities in Cheshire and Bedfordshire, a couple of the maps in this article are now out of date. Can these be updated please? A blank png map is available on Commons but I can't figure out how to amend it and use it here. Additionally, many other articles need to have their maps updated, e.g. Cornwall which shows the county highlighted on a map of England with old Cheshire/Beds borders. Bazonka ( talk) 09:38, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
Isle of Scilly may have a unitary kind of government, but they are not Unitary authorities of England in the sense of a non-metropolitan district + non-metropolitan county. They predate this, like the City of London. MRSC ( talk) 19:29, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
I have made some further amendments to the
Subdivisions of England article. Mostly reordering stuff to make it hang together a bit more logically.
The one change that you may not agree with is that I have completely separated the unitary authorities from the two-tier county/district hierarchy. To my mind they really didn't sit comfortably there - UAs are neither counties nor districts, and so I think it is clearer and less confusing to explain them separately.
There may still be some work to tidy up some stuff about ceremonial counties which is within the Administrative Divisions section - not really appropriate there.
Let me know if you disagree with anything I've done, and maybe we can discuss a way forward. Cheers,
Bazonka (
talk)
18:57, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
Unitary authorities *are* both counties and districts. You can't get away from that and it is misleading to say otherwise. More importantly it contradicts the source material. We can't reflect personal views. Ceremonial counties should either have a separate section *or* be integrated into the text. The argument for integrating into the text is that the ceremonial counties are based on the administrative divisions. We could, remove them altogether. The challenge with this article is to present a complex situation in a way that is easy to understand without becoming inaccurate. MRSC ( talk) 04:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
I think it would be helpful for a run down from top level to bottom level to help understand the divisions. I.e.
UK (Soverign State) England (country) East Midlands (region) Nottinghamshire (county) ... then honestly I don't know what the next level would be, and what its technical name is. For example I have always wrote I live in Nottingham when asked my city (as I live in Nottinghamshire but not in the city. Does the fact that Nottingham is a Unitary District mean that it governs the whole county, i.e. the whole of Nottinghamshire?
85.197.220.70 ( talk) 05:26, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
This wiki article either has the wrong title or it is pointless. There are a multitude of subdivisions of England. If this is about administrative subdivisions then the title should say so, and deal with that. The first line says there are non-administrative ceremonial county subdivisions, so presumably it is not just about administrative subdivisions. Each of the very many ways England is subdivided should have its own article, as often is the case. It seems this article would achieve more by being nothing more than a tabled list of different ways in which England is subdivided. How about Westminster parliamentary constituencies to get started? Roger 8 Roger ( talk) 08:21, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
I have created an update to the article. Does this work and can references and legislation be put here to implement in to my update and once it is up to standard I can update the sections.
My sandbox: user:Chocolateediter/sandbox
Please use reply in text on here to send a notification to me so I can see it in good time. Chocolateediter ( talk) 19:31, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
NUTs region system, until 2016, was the basis for city regions, especially for North East England. Brit vote to leave EU must have initiated a response to create closer combined authorities, starting with Tees Valley. Chocolateediter ( talk) 22:22, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
These have been abolished and so should only be mentioned in an article about the history of English local government divisions. If folks would like to prove that regions and/or met counties exist, would they kindly post links to those organisations' websites and provide the postal address of their headquarters. I don't deny that a met county can be used as a ceremonial. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:c7d:5988:ec00:dd15:2186:e814:1df6 ( talk) 15:04, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
A summary of this article appears in Local government in England. |
|
![]() | This page was
proposed for deletion by
Roger 8 Roger (
talk ·
contribs) on 28 March 2017 with the comment: Article says nothing constructive and repeats detail in many other articles. Refer Talk Page 14 It was contested by Redrose64 ( talk · contribs) on 2017-03-29 with the comment: if there is overlap, there are ways of addressing that issue particularly since this article has stood for fourteen years |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This all looks a bit odd to be honest. There seems to be no mention of the Local Authority admin level. There's a section outlining changes "proposed for 2004". Is the artical just out of date?
An explanation of the difference between "Cities" and "Cities and Boroughs" would be useful here. Vicki Rosenzweig
This is an absolutely weird article; the administrative regions of England are as follows:
jimfbleak 15:21 1 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Yes it's certainly odd, but I expect the CIA got their classifications from somewhere. It would be nice to trace where they did come from before replacing them with more up-to-date groupings. Incidentally-
The regions named certainly match those on the Ordnance Survey administratvie map of GB, so it's just the groupings that are odd. Andy G 19:55 1 Jul 2003 (UTC)
By what logic is e.g. Milton Keynes an "Administrative county"? It has never been a county, and is at present known as a "Unitary Authority". Andy G 19:11, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Oh. Mea culpa. I see we also have a "County of Bath and North East Somerset". I get the feeling the term "county" has been hijacked to describe any old legislative area the government want, rather than what people normally think of as a county. I can't see a DJ reading out a letter from "Maisie in Bath and North East Somerset". Andy G 18:52, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)
This article needs updating, as an Assembly referenum is only going to be held in the NE now. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.86.157.83 ( talk • contribs) .
I think this statement about Lord-Lieutenancy counties is questionable: These counties are sometimes used by people when describing where they live in England. I've never heard or seen anyone refer to where they come from with reference to a Lord-Lieutenant's seat. It sounds unlikely to me. Is there any evidence for this?
Secondly, is the City of London actually a London borough? If the city's authority is legally different shouldn't it have its own listing as 'county-level subnational entities' on this page? Also, who actually governs the inns of court? Are they local authorities in their own right, or areas that are not within any local authority?
Lastly, if The "shire counties" were also created in 1974 and are legally known as non-metropolitan counties why are we calling them "shire counties"? Isn't it better to stick to legal names rather than making up alternative names and putting them in quotation marks? Stringops 17:06, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Should this reflect Local government in Scotland and move to Local government in England? (currently redirects here, and more articles link to this redirect than any other) MRSC 17:35, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Just thought I'd point out that Bedfordshire is actually in the East region, not the Southeast, so it's in the wrong position in the table. I would try to do it myself, but I'm not sure how to edit tables in Wikipedia! Can anyone help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.127.142 ( talk) 12:19, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Should Berkshire appear in the Shire County section? Has it not been replaced in its entirety by 6 Unitary Authorities (though it still remains as a ceremonial county)? And why does IoW, which is a unitary authority, have a county council - isn't this the same as all other unitary authorites? And if it is to be a "county unitary authority", then should Herefordshire also have the same status? Bazonka ( talk) 20:58, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
One of the numbers in the first image is wrong - there are 46 unitary authorities, not 41. 84.65.52.11 ( talk) 22:46, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
With last year's changes to unitary authorities in Cheshire and Bedfordshire, a couple of the maps in this article are now out of date. Can these be updated please? A blank png map is available on Commons but I can't figure out how to amend it and use it here. Additionally, many other articles need to have their maps updated, e.g. Cornwall which shows the county highlighted on a map of England with old Cheshire/Beds borders. Bazonka ( talk) 09:38, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
Isle of Scilly may have a unitary kind of government, but they are not Unitary authorities of England in the sense of a non-metropolitan district + non-metropolitan county. They predate this, like the City of London. MRSC ( talk) 19:29, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
I have made some further amendments to the
Subdivisions of England article. Mostly reordering stuff to make it hang together a bit more logically.
The one change that you may not agree with is that I have completely separated the unitary authorities from the two-tier county/district hierarchy. To my mind they really didn't sit comfortably there - UAs are neither counties nor districts, and so I think it is clearer and less confusing to explain them separately.
There may still be some work to tidy up some stuff about ceremonial counties which is within the Administrative Divisions section - not really appropriate there.
Let me know if you disagree with anything I've done, and maybe we can discuss a way forward. Cheers,
Bazonka (
talk)
18:57, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
Unitary authorities *are* both counties and districts. You can't get away from that and it is misleading to say otherwise. More importantly it contradicts the source material. We can't reflect personal views. Ceremonial counties should either have a separate section *or* be integrated into the text. The argument for integrating into the text is that the ceremonial counties are based on the administrative divisions. We could, remove them altogether. The challenge with this article is to present a complex situation in a way that is easy to understand without becoming inaccurate. MRSC ( talk) 04:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
I think it would be helpful for a run down from top level to bottom level to help understand the divisions. I.e.
UK (Soverign State) England (country) East Midlands (region) Nottinghamshire (county) ... then honestly I don't know what the next level would be, and what its technical name is. For example I have always wrote I live in Nottingham when asked my city (as I live in Nottinghamshire but not in the city. Does the fact that Nottingham is a Unitary District mean that it governs the whole county, i.e. the whole of Nottinghamshire?
85.197.220.70 ( talk) 05:26, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
This wiki article either has the wrong title or it is pointless. There are a multitude of subdivisions of England. If this is about administrative subdivisions then the title should say so, and deal with that. The first line says there are non-administrative ceremonial county subdivisions, so presumably it is not just about administrative subdivisions. Each of the very many ways England is subdivided should have its own article, as often is the case. It seems this article would achieve more by being nothing more than a tabled list of different ways in which England is subdivided. How about Westminster parliamentary constituencies to get started? Roger 8 Roger ( talk) 08:21, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
I have created an update to the article. Does this work and can references and legislation be put here to implement in to my update and once it is up to standard I can update the sections.
My sandbox: user:Chocolateediter/sandbox
Please use reply in text on here to send a notification to me so I can see it in good time. Chocolateediter ( talk) 19:31, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
NUTs region system, until 2016, was the basis for city regions, especially for North East England. Brit vote to leave EU must have initiated a response to create closer combined authorities, starting with Tees Valley. Chocolateediter ( talk) 22:22, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
These have been abolished and so should only be mentioned in an article about the history of English local government divisions. If folks would like to prove that regions and/or met counties exist, would they kindly post links to those organisations' websites and provide the postal address of their headquarters. I don't deny that a met county can be used as a ceremonial. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:c7d:5988:ec00:dd15:2186:e814:1df6 ( talk) 15:04, 28 August 2022 (UTC)