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On the Kirkland thing: not a big deal, but if anyone were to be using this as a reference source for navigation (unlikely), they could be seriously confused by Kirkland's dual-grid system, which leads people to get lost fairly regularly (unlike Bellevue and Redmond, which, as far as I remember, have no other grid). Maybe just nix it, as the sentence already falls to mention plenty of other suburbs which use the numbering system? Radicalsubversiv 02:13, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Renton now uses its own grid system which is unfortunately orthogonal to the system used in Seattle and unincorporated King County. Issaquah, I believe, has also made a similar change. -- Wac 17:43, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Copied from article verbatim:
Addressing in Seattle (and throughout King County) keeps a uniform numbering plan. On streets that run north and south, odd numbered addresses are on the west side of the street with even to the east. <!-- is that true even south of downtown? -->
+, cit, so cl, rephrased; see Talk. MoS
Added verified relevant text and added citations, so cleaned up and rephrased as needed, per
Wikipedia:Manual of Style (
WP:MoS). Existing writing was retained as much as could. Summary per
Wikipedia:Edit summary legend. --
GoDot
04:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Grid layout and arterials defined are referenced by neighborhoods articles. (ToC should generate automatically with more than three headings (TOC).)
+ "street grid layout" for search engine key phrase permutations.
( SW) does not link to particular relevance to article. Replaced with northeast.
Compass points as such do not have periods, as, for example neither does NATO or the element Al. [Chicago Style, Wikipedia Boxing the compass and Cardinal direction ]. Ordinal points are single words. The official designations on maps and on actual official street signs use the standard convention. The official designations in USPS addresses use the standard convention. Another way to think of this may be to consider the compass points as symbols ilke those of the Periodic Table.
Where is "/" a good grammatical character?
Recommendation by
WP:MoS:
Slashes. --
GoDot
06:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC) (Ed. --05:19, 13 June 2006 (UTC))
Avoid joining two words by a slash, as it suggests that they are related, but does not say how. Spell it out to avoid ambiguities. Also, the construct and/or is awkward outside of legalese. Use "x or y, or both," to explicitly conjoin with the inclusive or, or "either x or y, but not both," to explicitly specify the exclusive or.
"Include the punctuation mark inside the quotation marks only if the sense of the punctuation mark is part of the quotation" ( WP:MoS#Quotation marks).
-- GoDot 04:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
See also
Talk:Seattle, Citing sources.
"External Links" -> "Further Reading", per MoS
Further reading/external links.
"Retrieved [date]", since on-line reference links can break (per
Embedded links). --
GoDot 06:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC) --
GoDot
04:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
{{
Citation needed}} noted where needed to distinguish from citation following.
Delete <!-- whatever --> in article when okay.
Bug: ref="multiple, [name]" command per
Multiple uses DNF ((Does Not Function,
acronym). Kludge: "ref" command used instead, duplicates in "References" section use http://URL only.
Citations may refer to Bibliography, manually generated. Format per
MoS. (Ed. --
GoDot
05:19, 13 June 2006 (UTC))
-- GoDot 06:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Jesus Christ MSUP, "six alphabetic pairs"? What is the alphabetic pattern? "JCMSUP" for search engine key word. Does anyone know a good device for remembering the order within each pair?
What is the relation of "Metro Memories Scrapbook" to the article? The page seems to be testimonials by bus patrons.
For all I know, the section on street grid layout may be accurate, but it is almost indecipherable. Admittedly, I'm tired, it's late, and I'm about to call it a night, but even knowing the city well it is unclear what areas it is saying are oriented which way. It's the kind of passage where I feel like I know less when I finish than when I started. Could someone consider rewriting, or adding a map? - Jmabel | Talk 05:39, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
In the Notes and references section, there is an HTML comment "Bug: ref='multiple, [name]' DNF". I have no idea what this might mean, and I doubt I am uniquely ignorant. Would someone please explain this or reword it coherently? It seems to have been added as part of this edit by User:GoDot, who appears to remark on it above, but in a manner every bit as cryptic as the phrase itself. - Jmabel | Talk 05:44, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
I still have no idea what "Bug: ref='multiple, Samson', etc. DNF" means. OK, "DNF" is "does not function". So what? What is the bug? What is it that you are trying to do? (And if someone other than GoDot can explain this, please do, because I suspect from the foregoing that there is a better chance that I will better understand someone else's explanation.) - Jmabel | Talk 03:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Now I see (but only by looking at article history). Dead links have been removed from references. May I suggest reading Wikipedia:Citing sources#What to do when a reference link "goes dead"? It's pretty clear on what to do, and this isn't it. Once you've thrown away a link, there is very little chance that someone will reproduce it from the Web Archive, unless (as I just did) the excavate the history, which they shouldn't have to do. - Jmabel | Talk 03:19, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
A References section, which contains only citations, helps readers to see at a glance the quality of the references used. ( WP: Citing sources # "References" section in addition to "Notes")
Seattle neighborhoods reference this article, so {{Seattle neighborhoods}} would be useful since this article pertains.
Re. <ref>[...] [
pdf note]</ref>
NB: "streetclassmaps.htm#pdfnote" is an editorial note enclosed in square brackets, a reference within a reference. --04:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC), --05:19, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
-- GoDot 04:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Summary: + cite web, cl. print refs, wikify conurbation, punc pdf note, order of heads at end; see Talk
Explication: Clean up refs to print sources, make clear what the bracketed reference is. Order of headings at end per
WP:MoS,
7 Standard appendices.) --
GoDot
05:19, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
The directionals section is pretty well written in terms of describing the system of street and avenue designation with NW, N, NE, W, N/_, E, _, _/E, SW, S, (SE). However, that's a case where a picture saves 233 words – or really just illustrates them. It would be nice if someone created such an illustration. I'll put it on my own to-do list, but I won't complain if someone else jumps on the idea before I get around to it.— Steve98052 ( talk) 20:21, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
By the way, some of the directionals have changed at least once in the city's history (some Ns became Es); might be worth discussing if someone can track down details and dates. I've noticed this when consulting old maps, and it's mentioned at [1], which also has some other stuff that could be of interest for the article. - Jmabel | Talk 05:57, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
I received a comment about inconsistency between the map and the text on my user talk page. I'll copy the substance (without greetings and signatures, that is) of the comment and my reply here, so anyone interested in the topic can participate. (Incidentally, someone else created a map before I got around to finishing the one I worked on in 2011.)
— Steve98052 ( talk) 18:23, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
On the map it appears that Harbor Island is colored black with no indication of which directional section it's a part of; of course, on Google Maps it becomes obvious that it's part of the SW section, along with West Seattle (which you'd expect to be in the W section but c'est la Seattle). 98.232.17.85 ( talk) 01:38, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
I received this message from Steve98052: _________________________________________________________
Hi David,
I see that you asked me about Street layout of Seattle on my user talk page. I think you're right that the text is correct and the image is wrong. I visited the area you asked about in person a few years ago to look, and as well as I can remember the text is correct, or at least it was at the time.
To fix the map would require an SVG editor, such as Inkscape to change the image file. I am a novice with Inkscape, but I could do it – if I had time. I don't really have time right now, so if there's someone else who wants to do it and knows how, it's likely to happen sooner than if we wait until I get around to it.
I'm copying this to the article's talk page so others can see it. That's the best place to continue the discussion. —Steve98052 (talk) 18:11, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
_________________________________________________________
I have little experience communicating via this system, so am doing my best. I have edited the map using Adobe Illustrator and replaced the previous map with the correction that Steve agrees in his above comment should be made. I have re-read the text and I do believe the map is a closer approximation of the text. Let me know if there are any problems.
David — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dsokal ( talk • contribs) 23:43, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
Measuring the distance between the grid streets in downtown Seattle and on the East Side, (say, using google maps satellite imagery) it seems quite clear that the spacing is 100m centre-to-centre This seems worth including in the article, but I can't find a source for this! Walkerm930 ( talk) 01:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has been
mentioned by a media organization:
|
On the Kirkland thing: not a big deal, but if anyone were to be using this as a reference source for navigation (unlikely), they could be seriously confused by Kirkland's dual-grid system, which leads people to get lost fairly regularly (unlike Bellevue and Redmond, which, as far as I remember, have no other grid). Maybe just nix it, as the sentence already falls to mention plenty of other suburbs which use the numbering system? Radicalsubversiv 02:13, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Renton now uses its own grid system which is unfortunately orthogonal to the system used in Seattle and unincorporated King County. Issaquah, I believe, has also made a similar change. -- Wac 17:43, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Copied from article verbatim:
Addressing in Seattle (and throughout King County) keeps a uniform numbering plan. On streets that run north and south, odd numbered addresses are on the west side of the street with even to the east. <!-- is that true even south of downtown? -->
+, cit, so cl, rephrased; see Talk. MoS
Added verified relevant text and added citations, so cleaned up and rephrased as needed, per
Wikipedia:Manual of Style (
WP:MoS). Existing writing was retained as much as could. Summary per
Wikipedia:Edit summary legend. --
GoDot
04:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Grid layout and arterials defined are referenced by neighborhoods articles. (ToC should generate automatically with more than three headings (TOC).)
+ "street grid layout" for search engine key phrase permutations.
( SW) does not link to particular relevance to article. Replaced with northeast.
Compass points as such do not have periods, as, for example neither does NATO or the element Al. [Chicago Style, Wikipedia Boxing the compass and Cardinal direction ]. Ordinal points are single words. The official designations on maps and on actual official street signs use the standard convention. The official designations in USPS addresses use the standard convention. Another way to think of this may be to consider the compass points as symbols ilke those of the Periodic Table.
Where is "/" a good grammatical character?
Recommendation by
WP:MoS:
Slashes. --
GoDot
06:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC) (Ed. --05:19, 13 June 2006 (UTC))
Avoid joining two words by a slash, as it suggests that they are related, but does not say how. Spell it out to avoid ambiguities. Also, the construct and/or is awkward outside of legalese. Use "x or y, or both," to explicitly conjoin with the inclusive or, or "either x or y, but not both," to explicitly specify the exclusive or.
"Include the punctuation mark inside the quotation marks only if the sense of the punctuation mark is part of the quotation" ( WP:MoS#Quotation marks).
-- GoDot 04:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
See also
Talk:Seattle, Citing sources.
"External Links" -> "Further Reading", per MoS
Further reading/external links.
"Retrieved [date]", since on-line reference links can break (per
Embedded links). --
GoDot 06:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC) --
GoDot
04:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
{{
Citation needed}} noted where needed to distinguish from citation following.
Delete <!-- whatever --> in article when okay.
Bug: ref="multiple, [name]" command per
Multiple uses DNF ((Does Not Function,
acronym). Kludge: "ref" command used instead, duplicates in "References" section use http://URL only.
Citations may refer to Bibliography, manually generated. Format per
MoS. (Ed. --
GoDot
05:19, 13 June 2006 (UTC))
-- GoDot 06:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Jesus Christ MSUP, "six alphabetic pairs"? What is the alphabetic pattern? "JCMSUP" for search engine key word. Does anyone know a good device for remembering the order within each pair?
What is the relation of "Metro Memories Scrapbook" to the article? The page seems to be testimonials by bus patrons.
For all I know, the section on street grid layout may be accurate, but it is almost indecipherable. Admittedly, I'm tired, it's late, and I'm about to call it a night, but even knowing the city well it is unclear what areas it is saying are oriented which way. It's the kind of passage where I feel like I know less when I finish than when I started. Could someone consider rewriting, or adding a map? - Jmabel | Talk 05:39, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
In the Notes and references section, there is an HTML comment "Bug: ref='multiple, [name]' DNF". I have no idea what this might mean, and I doubt I am uniquely ignorant. Would someone please explain this or reword it coherently? It seems to have been added as part of this edit by User:GoDot, who appears to remark on it above, but in a manner every bit as cryptic as the phrase itself. - Jmabel | Talk 05:44, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
I still have no idea what "Bug: ref='multiple, Samson', etc. DNF" means. OK, "DNF" is "does not function". So what? What is the bug? What is it that you are trying to do? (And if someone other than GoDot can explain this, please do, because I suspect from the foregoing that there is a better chance that I will better understand someone else's explanation.) - Jmabel | Talk 03:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Now I see (but only by looking at article history). Dead links have been removed from references. May I suggest reading Wikipedia:Citing sources#What to do when a reference link "goes dead"? It's pretty clear on what to do, and this isn't it. Once you've thrown away a link, there is very little chance that someone will reproduce it from the Web Archive, unless (as I just did) the excavate the history, which they shouldn't have to do. - Jmabel | Talk 03:19, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
A References section, which contains only citations, helps readers to see at a glance the quality of the references used. ( WP: Citing sources # "References" section in addition to "Notes")
Seattle neighborhoods reference this article, so {{Seattle neighborhoods}} would be useful since this article pertains.
Re. <ref>[...] [
pdf note]</ref>
NB: "streetclassmaps.htm#pdfnote" is an editorial note enclosed in square brackets, a reference within a reference. --04:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC), --05:19, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
-- GoDot 04:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Summary: + cite web, cl. print refs, wikify conurbation, punc pdf note, order of heads at end; see Talk
Explication: Clean up refs to print sources, make clear what the bracketed reference is. Order of headings at end per
WP:MoS,
7 Standard appendices.) --
GoDot
05:19, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
The directionals section is pretty well written in terms of describing the system of street and avenue designation with NW, N, NE, W, N/_, E, _, _/E, SW, S, (SE). However, that's a case where a picture saves 233 words – or really just illustrates them. It would be nice if someone created such an illustration. I'll put it on my own to-do list, but I won't complain if someone else jumps on the idea before I get around to it.— Steve98052 ( talk) 20:21, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
By the way, some of the directionals have changed at least once in the city's history (some Ns became Es); might be worth discussing if someone can track down details and dates. I've noticed this when consulting old maps, and it's mentioned at [1], which also has some other stuff that could be of interest for the article. - Jmabel | Talk 05:57, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
I received a comment about inconsistency between the map and the text on my user talk page. I'll copy the substance (without greetings and signatures, that is) of the comment and my reply here, so anyone interested in the topic can participate. (Incidentally, someone else created a map before I got around to finishing the one I worked on in 2011.)
— Steve98052 ( talk) 18:23, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
On the map it appears that Harbor Island is colored black with no indication of which directional section it's a part of; of course, on Google Maps it becomes obvious that it's part of the SW section, along with West Seattle (which you'd expect to be in the W section but c'est la Seattle). 98.232.17.85 ( talk) 01:38, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
I received this message from Steve98052: _________________________________________________________
Hi David,
I see that you asked me about Street layout of Seattle on my user talk page. I think you're right that the text is correct and the image is wrong. I visited the area you asked about in person a few years ago to look, and as well as I can remember the text is correct, or at least it was at the time.
To fix the map would require an SVG editor, such as Inkscape to change the image file. I am a novice with Inkscape, but I could do it – if I had time. I don't really have time right now, so if there's someone else who wants to do it and knows how, it's likely to happen sooner than if we wait until I get around to it.
I'm copying this to the article's talk page so others can see it. That's the best place to continue the discussion. —Steve98052 (talk) 18:11, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
_________________________________________________________
I have little experience communicating via this system, so am doing my best. I have edited the map using Adobe Illustrator and replaced the previous map with the correction that Steve agrees in his above comment should be made. I have re-read the text and I do believe the map is a closer approximation of the text. Let me know if there are any problems.
David — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dsokal ( talk • contribs) 23:43, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
Measuring the distance between the grid streets in downtown Seattle and on the East Side, (say, using google maps satellite imagery) it seems quite clear that the spacing is 100m centre-to-centre This seems worth including in the article, but I can't find a source for this! Walkerm930 ( talk) 01:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC)