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There's been some talk over Talk:2006 Ipswich murder investigation which concerns the appropriate title for this article, on the basis of the presumption of innocence. I suggested Steve Wright (Ipswich) as a neutral title. Are there any views on this subject? Sam Blacketer 23:28, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps move to Steven Wright(xxxx) as per Suffolk Constabulary link [1] Escaper7 07:51, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
The Guardian says "Steven Wright" here. Sam Blacketer 00:42, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
The page should not be moved until we have achieved a consensus on the name of the man in question. I have moved it back to Steve Wright for the time being until further clarification is provided. Budgiekiller 09:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
So far across major press it's about 40% Stephen, 40% Steven, and 20% Steve. Since Steve works as a solution for all three for the time being, is there any point in changing it right now? Budgiekiller 09:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
If it's any help, the only Steve Wright I can find on ancestry.co.uk, born in Norfolk in Apr-Jun quarter 1958 is a Steve G. J. Wright. I would be fairly happy to assume it's him, but I leave it with you to look into. Jcuk 09:59, 22 December 2006 (UTC) Further to the above, on http://www.norfolkpubs.co.uk/norwich/fnorwich/nchfbi.htm he is confirmed as Steve G. J. Wright. Jcuk 10:26, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Sorry to sound negative but, given the necessity to abide by the principles of legal prejudice, is this article really a good idea? It would be very unfortunate if Wikipedia came into disrepute by prejudicing a trial. Of note is the fact that contributors to Wikipedia come from a variety of countries where the laws of prejudice are quite different. For instance, in the US, free speech tends to be the predominant concern, whereas in England it is the right to a fair trial that predominates. At some point it is likely that editors of this article will have to make a decision between including details (which could prejudice a trial) and excluding them (thereby leaving an incomplete article). I think the best plan would be to remove this article until legal proceedings have concluded. Bluewave 09:18, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
One way of looking at this, is by keeping it a stub, it will prevent lots of editors from queueing up to create a new and possibly damaging article when they see one isn't there. Look at the main article which has at least twice (today) named the second man who's been released. It can also be locked to prevent random edits. I've made my views clear on the contmept issue elsewhere re this. And about the point (two above this one), I would keep all references to UK related media. In my experience, it's unlikely that, say, the US press could jeopardise a trial, or reports in another country. But of course the internet crosses boundaries speedily, so we should stick to UK sources. We can't add much to the article until each stage of the legal process has happened, but we can add to this over time. Escaper7 10:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
As long as this or any other article only contains information already published elsewhere this shouldn't be a problem. Since it is a requirement under WP:VERIFY I don't think there will be a problem. Guinness 10:56, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Your statement is contradictory. What NOTW says may prejudice a jury, what we as a Miami based online service say cannot be considered to potentially prejudice a jury according to UK law. UK law may be outdated (in terms of the rise of the internet) but that is an issue for Parliament and not wikipedia, SqueakBox 19:55, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I think, given WP:BLP, that we as an encyclopedia are duty bound to be extremely careful around this chap who is indeed innocent until proven guilty and that for thi reason, not because of UK law, we need to be extremely careful. Our NPOV policy doesnt allow us to treat him as guilty until proven in a court of law. Personally I will edit very sensitively because of this so I would say I am not debating what our end product (the article) should be but the guidelines that ensure we treat this man fairly, SqueakBox 22:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Your viewpoint is very problematic as we have know idea what the law is in many countries, and many editors have no idea about UK law and nor can they be expected to. Unless British law changes wikipedia has no responsibility to UK law, nor do non UK or non UK based editors. How would you deal with Saddam? Respect Iraqi law? etc This is a legal minefield you suggest and one I would fiercely oppose, SqueakBox 23:56, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
If you wish to restrict this article to sourced UK content I think you need to do so at a policy page. In theory I oppose such a move very strongly, SqueakBox 15:50, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Please DISCUSS major changes to this article before making substantial edits - particularly in resepect of the legal process. there are serious consequences for Wikipedia, and its credibility as an encyclopaedia if you don't.
Escaper7 11:41, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
As stated above it is not the legal process but NPOV and sourcing that we need to keep in mind. Anyone from any country can edit this article and many may not even be aware of UK law. As a Miami based online publication wikipedia cannot affect sub judice within the UK. To claim that wikipedia's credibility is at stake in the UK on the basis of this article is simply not true, nor there can there be any consequences for wikipedia for breaking UK sub judice laws any more than for any other non UK based publication. The website isnt registered in the UK, Jimbo Wales, the owner, isnt British or residing in Britain and nor are its servers there. BLP is absolutley what we need to follow and flagging that as well as NPOV (keep it neutral) is the way forward with this article, if we stick to them we wont be breaking sub judice anyway, IMO, SqueakBox 20:36, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Well certainly anyone claiming that something that was written outside the UK and published on a website outside the UK is likely to affect a trial by jury case within the UK would be pushing new legal ground. If what appears on the internet on servers outside the UK written by people outside the UK could affect UK law the UK government would be in a bit of a pickle, but right now something published in the US by someone in the US is not considered to affect the partiality of a UK jury, and this is obviously so as otherwise lots of cases would be thrown out as the UK cannot control what goes on beyond its borders, and nor should it be able to. if we start to say to US or other foreigners that by writing in wikipedia they are subject to UK law we crerate a minefield, SqueakBox 00:30, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Is the subsentence "and appears to have changed jobs on a regular basis, including a few weeks prior to his arrest." NPOV? It seems to be suggesting he was unable to hold down a regular job (thats how I read it, anyhow) I have no idea what is or is not predudicial now the legal case is active, but can't help wondering about this bit. Jcuk 19:04, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Should we be publishing the guy's actual street address - right down to the house number? That does not seem reasonable to me, and I'm tempted to delete at least the number. What to others think? Aleta 05:37, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
We absolutely should not give out his home address. Only a very small minority of bios would allow for this, eg Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, perhaps a few very rich people, and exceptional cases like Fred and Rosemary West because the house itself became so notorious and because nobody lives there now. The general practice is to absolutely not do so, especially as his partner is presumably still living there, and doesnt have the wealth or power to protect herself, SqueakBox 15:41, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
If the address is in the Mirror I am not surprised she isnt there right now, SqueakBox 16:21, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Talking of his girlfriend, should we really be publishing her name? I haven't looked into it, but I suppose we could take a lead from the Peter Sutcliffe article. Jcuk 14:01, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I've removed her name and that of the pub. Let's keep it simple, SqueakBox 19:40, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
In line with Wikipedia policy, this article has been given a crime stub template. Given the many discussions here, and on the 2006 Ipswich murder page about contmept of court, with legal proceedings being active, is the stub a good idea given that it invites editors to expand the article. Bit of a no win situation, any thoughts? Escaper7 23:55, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I've checked a few things in relation to the hearing on 1 May and I hope this will help other editors:
I hope that's useful. Escaper7 15:28, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
This page can now (and should) be reinstated following Mr. Wright's conviction for the murders. As a point of fact any information in the public domain that this article contained could have been made visible quite legally once the trial had started. That is now neither here nor there, the suggestion remains that this be reinstated. -- John Gibbard ( talk) 16:48, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is the
talk page of a
redirect that targets the page: • Steve Wright (serial killer) Because this page is not frequently watched, present and future discussions, edit requests and requested moves should take place at: • Talk:Steve Wright (serial killer) |
![]() | This topic contains controversial issues, some of which have reached a consensus for approach and neutrality, and some of which may be disputed. Before making any potentially controversial changes to the article, please carefully read the discussion-page dialogue to see if the issue has been raised before, and ensure that your edit meets all of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Please also ensure you use an accurate and concise edit summary. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
There's been some talk over Talk:2006 Ipswich murder investigation which concerns the appropriate title for this article, on the basis of the presumption of innocence. I suggested Steve Wright (Ipswich) as a neutral title. Are there any views on this subject? Sam Blacketer 23:28, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps move to Steven Wright(xxxx) as per Suffolk Constabulary link [1] Escaper7 07:51, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
The Guardian says "Steven Wright" here. Sam Blacketer 00:42, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
The page should not be moved until we have achieved a consensus on the name of the man in question. I have moved it back to Steve Wright for the time being until further clarification is provided. Budgiekiller 09:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
So far across major press it's about 40% Stephen, 40% Steven, and 20% Steve. Since Steve works as a solution for all three for the time being, is there any point in changing it right now? Budgiekiller 09:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
If it's any help, the only Steve Wright I can find on ancestry.co.uk, born in Norfolk in Apr-Jun quarter 1958 is a Steve G. J. Wright. I would be fairly happy to assume it's him, but I leave it with you to look into. Jcuk 09:59, 22 December 2006 (UTC) Further to the above, on http://www.norfolkpubs.co.uk/norwich/fnorwich/nchfbi.htm he is confirmed as Steve G. J. Wright. Jcuk 10:26, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Sorry to sound negative but, given the necessity to abide by the principles of legal prejudice, is this article really a good idea? It would be very unfortunate if Wikipedia came into disrepute by prejudicing a trial. Of note is the fact that contributors to Wikipedia come from a variety of countries where the laws of prejudice are quite different. For instance, in the US, free speech tends to be the predominant concern, whereas in England it is the right to a fair trial that predominates. At some point it is likely that editors of this article will have to make a decision between including details (which could prejudice a trial) and excluding them (thereby leaving an incomplete article). I think the best plan would be to remove this article until legal proceedings have concluded. Bluewave 09:18, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
One way of looking at this, is by keeping it a stub, it will prevent lots of editors from queueing up to create a new and possibly damaging article when they see one isn't there. Look at the main article which has at least twice (today) named the second man who's been released. It can also be locked to prevent random edits. I've made my views clear on the contmept issue elsewhere re this. And about the point (two above this one), I would keep all references to UK related media. In my experience, it's unlikely that, say, the US press could jeopardise a trial, or reports in another country. But of course the internet crosses boundaries speedily, so we should stick to UK sources. We can't add much to the article until each stage of the legal process has happened, but we can add to this over time. Escaper7 10:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
As long as this or any other article only contains information already published elsewhere this shouldn't be a problem. Since it is a requirement under WP:VERIFY I don't think there will be a problem. Guinness 10:56, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Your statement is contradictory. What NOTW says may prejudice a jury, what we as a Miami based online service say cannot be considered to potentially prejudice a jury according to UK law. UK law may be outdated (in terms of the rise of the internet) but that is an issue for Parliament and not wikipedia, SqueakBox 19:55, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I think, given WP:BLP, that we as an encyclopedia are duty bound to be extremely careful around this chap who is indeed innocent until proven guilty and that for thi reason, not because of UK law, we need to be extremely careful. Our NPOV policy doesnt allow us to treat him as guilty until proven in a court of law. Personally I will edit very sensitively because of this so I would say I am not debating what our end product (the article) should be but the guidelines that ensure we treat this man fairly, SqueakBox 22:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Your viewpoint is very problematic as we have know idea what the law is in many countries, and many editors have no idea about UK law and nor can they be expected to. Unless British law changes wikipedia has no responsibility to UK law, nor do non UK or non UK based editors. How would you deal with Saddam? Respect Iraqi law? etc This is a legal minefield you suggest and one I would fiercely oppose, SqueakBox 23:56, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
If you wish to restrict this article to sourced UK content I think you need to do so at a policy page. In theory I oppose such a move very strongly, SqueakBox 15:50, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Please DISCUSS major changes to this article before making substantial edits - particularly in resepect of the legal process. there are serious consequences for Wikipedia, and its credibility as an encyclopaedia if you don't.
Escaper7 11:41, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
As stated above it is not the legal process but NPOV and sourcing that we need to keep in mind. Anyone from any country can edit this article and many may not even be aware of UK law. As a Miami based online publication wikipedia cannot affect sub judice within the UK. To claim that wikipedia's credibility is at stake in the UK on the basis of this article is simply not true, nor there can there be any consequences for wikipedia for breaking UK sub judice laws any more than for any other non UK based publication. The website isnt registered in the UK, Jimbo Wales, the owner, isnt British or residing in Britain and nor are its servers there. BLP is absolutley what we need to follow and flagging that as well as NPOV (keep it neutral) is the way forward with this article, if we stick to them we wont be breaking sub judice anyway, IMO, SqueakBox 20:36, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Well certainly anyone claiming that something that was written outside the UK and published on a website outside the UK is likely to affect a trial by jury case within the UK would be pushing new legal ground. If what appears on the internet on servers outside the UK written by people outside the UK could affect UK law the UK government would be in a bit of a pickle, but right now something published in the US by someone in the US is not considered to affect the partiality of a UK jury, and this is obviously so as otherwise lots of cases would be thrown out as the UK cannot control what goes on beyond its borders, and nor should it be able to. if we start to say to US or other foreigners that by writing in wikipedia they are subject to UK law we crerate a minefield, SqueakBox 00:30, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Is the subsentence "and appears to have changed jobs on a regular basis, including a few weeks prior to his arrest." NPOV? It seems to be suggesting he was unable to hold down a regular job (thats how I read it, anyhow) I have no idea what is or is not predudicial now the legal case is active, but can't help wondering about this bit. Jcuk 19:04, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Should we be publishing the guy's actual street address - right down to the house number? That does not seem reasonable to me, and I'm tempted to delete at least the number. What to others think? Aleta 05:37, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
We absolutely should not give out his home address. Only a very small minority of bios would allow for this, eg Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, perhaps a few very rich people, and exceptional cases like Fred and Rosemary West because the house itself became so notorious and because nobody lives there now. The general practice is to absolutely not do so, especially as his partner is presumably still living there, and doesnt have the wealth or power to protect herself, SqueakBox 15:41, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
If the address is in the Mirror I am not surprised she isnt there right now, SqueakBox 16:21, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Talking of his girlfriend, should we really be publishing her name? I haven't looked into it, but I suppose we could take a lead from the Peter Sutcliffe article. Jcuk 14:01, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I've removed her name and that of the pub. Let's keep it simple, SqueakBox 19:40, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
In line with Wikipedia policy, this article has been given a crime stub template. Given the many discussions here, and on the 2006 Ipswich murder page about contmept of court, with legal proceedings being active, is the stub a good idea given that it invites editors to expand the article. Bit of a no win situation, any thoughts? Escaper7 23:55, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I've checked a few things in relation to the hearing on 1 May and I hope this will help other editors:
I hope that's useful. Escaper7 15:28, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
This page can now (and should) be reinstated following Mr. Wright's conviction for the murders. As a point of fact any information in the public domain that this article contained could have been made visible quite legally once the trial had started. That is now neither here nor there, the suggestion remains that this be reinstated. -- John Gibbard ( talk) 16:48, 21 February 2008 (UTC)