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Most of the statements in this page have no citations for them. Please provide citations for them, or they will be removed. Here is the list:
1. Black Belt Hall of Fame member, An-shu Hayes is a noted martial arts author. cite for Black Belt Hall of Fame
2. The nineteen books he has authored have sold over 1.3 million copies and have been translated into five languages only sixteen books listed. Need cite to bibliography or other source
3. He is a 1971 graduate of Miami University with a Bachelor of Arts degree in theater. difficult to verify. Ideally a source would be required, but not essential
4. He has worked as an actor, notably in the TV miniseries Shogun. source needed
5. He is married to Rumiko Urata. see comment for #3
6. The couple has two daughters, Reina and Marissa. see comment for #3
7. Stephen K. Hayes is considered an authority on ninjutsu and a knowledgeable practitioner of esoteric Tendai mikkyo Buddhism. source needed
8. Today, Mr. Hayes lives and works in Dayton, Ohio, and was once again featured on the cover of Black Belt magazine for their March 2007 issue. source needed for statement about Black Belt magazine
9. The issue contains a chapter from his soon-to-be-released book Ninja Vol 6, Secret Scrolls of the Warrior Sage. source needed
10. The magazine’s opening editorial as well focuses on Mr. Hayes, and describes him as "one of the 10 most influential living martial artists in the world." source needed
11. After graduating from Miami University in 1971, he spent time in search of authentic martial traditions, working his way up to sam dan in the Korean martial art of Tang Soo Do (tangsudo). see comment for #3
12. Frustrated with the limitations he'd encountered in his training, he packed his bags and headed for Japan. source needed
13. In June of 1975, he finally met the teacher he'd been seeking all his life in Grandmaster Masaaki Hatsumi, the founder of Bujinkan Dōjō. source needed
14. Stephen K. Hayes returned to the United States, and with his close friend Bud Malmstrom set off the "ninja boom" of the 1980s, creating one of the largest martial arts phenomena since Bruce Lee. source needed
15. During this time, he helped introduce ninjutsu to America and Western Europe and is responsible for many people becoming aware of ninjutsu. source needed
16. A number of today's senior American Bujinkan practitioners began training with Hayes during this time period, including Bud Malmstrom, Jack Hoban, Mark Davis, Jean-Pierre Seibel, Courtland Elliott, and many more. source needed
17. In 1991 Hayes also received Tokudo priesthood ordination in Tendai Buddhism from Tendai Master and Vajra Acharya Dr. Clark Jikai Choffy. source needed
18. In 1993, Hayes was awarded the judan (tenth degree black belt) degree from Grandmaster Hatsumi. source needed
19. In 1997, he founded the martial art of To-Shin Do, an art based in his experience of budo taijutsu and life experiences, including security escort work for the Dalai Lama of Tibet. source needed
20. Hayes has also founded a Buddhist Order based on his teachings and experiences with Tibetan Buddhism and Tendai called the Blue Lotus Assembly. source needed
21. Hayes and his SKH Quest Corporation have continued with their work of making martial arts accessible to people everywhere. source needed
22. The SKH Quest network now spans 18 schools in 12 states. source needed
23. During his time in Japan, Hayes occasionally worked as a photographic model. He can be seen in the handbook for the Canon AE1 camera, holding the camera. source needed
24. He was the stunt double for Richard Chamberlain in the TV miniseries Shogun. source needed
Again, this is an encyclopedia entry. Please see the standards on verifiability.
Dammokles 19:16, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
"Black Belt Hall of Fame member, An-shu Hayes is a noted martial arts author. cite for Black Belt Hall of Fame"
"Black Belt Hall of Fame" *is* the source.
"He is a 1971 graduate of Miami University with a Bachelor of Arts degree in theater. difficult to verify. Ideally a source would be required, but not essential"
Yeah, and we may want to make sure he's really a man, too, right?
"He has worked as an actor, notably in the TV miniseries Shogun. source needed" [ [1]] will add to article.
"He is married to Rumiko Urata. see comment for #3"
Stupid.
"The couple has two daughters, Reina and Marissa. see comment for #3"
Stupid.
"Today, Mr. Hayes lives and works in Dayton, Ohio, and was once again featured on the cover of Black Belt magazine for their March 2007 issue. source needed for statement about Black Belt magazine"
The source for the statement *is* the March 2007 issue.
"The issue contains a chapter from his soon-to-be-released book Ninja Vol 6, Secret Scrolls of the Warrior Sage. source needed"
See above - the magazine is the source. Etc. Etc. Etc. Jikaku 17:36, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Wondering if the section on the bujinkan affiliation needs to be removed (violation of living persons/biography) - it's certainly controversial, with little more than a lot of hearsay evidence, and links to comments from discussion forums (not suitable as sources according to wikipedia guidelines as far as I know). Even the jpg of a comment that appeared on the personal page of an administrator at the Bujinkan hombu doesn't list a name. Should this section be removed pending legit source? Jikaku 17:43, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
It is not academic, it is a fact. I was present the day Hatsumi Sensei asked George Ohashi to take down Steve's nafuda kake from the wall, saying "He no longer has anything to do with the Bujinkan." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.170.120.83 ( talk) 23:05, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Since there was confusion about whether the removal happened or not, I asked the administrator who was said to have been ordered to take down the name. His name is George Ohashi and he can be found at his own website for confirmation. Merely do a internet search of Bujinkan Ayase and Honbu classes scheduale and his name and you wil find his web page and how to contact him directly. I suggest that anyone who wishes to post the most truthful account here take the time to contact him before removing anything again. He can confirm that he was ordered to take it down and give the reasons he was given by Dr Hatsumi. Kidotai ( talk) 23:34, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
It is not that case at all. It is more a case of "I did it." You previously mentioned that even people who saw the event might not know what was going on. That is not the case here. George Ohashi knows what he did and why he did it. It is verifiable. It is easy to see that he is what he says. So there really does not seem to be a reason, other than convenience, for people to find out the truth. Kidotai ( talk) 05:24, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Actually, the web page I referenced is not self published. The author of the article is not the owner of the site. Kidotai ( talk) 21:57, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Since the last discussions of this were posted, there have been several updates in terms of what we know.
FACT: Hayes name plank was removed from the Bujinkin hombu wall. all parties agree.
However The explanation regarding the WHY is where we risk going into rumor and lack of substantiation.
Consequently, I think we should phrase it that Hayes' name plate was removed from the roster of active Bujinkin teachers. No one disputes that fact, and it keeps Wikipedia out of rumor mongering and sniping. Greenshinobi ( talk) 02:11, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Greenshinobi
Err where in the Bio guidelines? I looked and it just recommends WP:reliable sources. -- Nate1481( t/ c) 14:41, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
says: Material from self-published and questionable sources may be used as sources in articles about themselves, so long as:
it is relevant to their notability; it is not contentious; it is not unduly self-serving; it does not involve claims about third parties; it does not involve claims about events not directly related to the subject; there is no reasonable doubt as to who authored it; the article is not based primarily on such sources. Jikaku ( talk) 15:01, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Considering all the updates - I'm wondering if we can go ahead and remove he "needs citations" box from the page?
Jikaku (
talk) 13:16, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
I wonder about the source for the claim of being a bodyguard for the Dalai Lama. If I understand the guidelines, you try to avoid stuff that originates from the subject themselves and instead prefer other sources. But the source for the claims of being a bodyguard are linked to a site that is taken almost word for word from STephen Hayes' own website. It is a group that will allow you to join for a small fee and then supply the biographical information you want the world to see. And since there is a great deal of doubt that Stephen Hayes actually was a full fledged bodyguard, I wonder if this claim needs to be backed up by another source. Kidotai ( talk) 05:28, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
And to Nate1481: When you say 'I've lost count of the number of arts that Rangers, Seals and the SAS apparently use exclusively..' At the risk of being cynical the answer is just about all of them. Well, so many martial arts instructors/consultants claim to have trained special forces we could just as well list the people that don't claim to have instructed troops and law enforcement. Greenshinobi ( talk) 00:25, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Just wanted to briefly point out that a list of books authored by SKH was included with this bio, until it was argued that it didn't contibute much to the article, and that numerous links from the article lead to other references as well as places where you can buy the various books. I figure, if that's a good enough reason to not include the list, it's probably also a good enough reason to remove the "cite" tag from the authorship claim, doncha think? Jikaku ( talk) 12:13, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
>>In the 1990s, Hayes regularly served as personal protection escort and security advisor for 1989 Nobel Peace Prize winner, Tenzin >>Gyatso, the Dalai Lama of Tibet [9].
I dont think the Dalai Lama hires private body guards, other than his monks & the security provided by Indian government. the source for this claim is Mr Hayes own website. Are there any other more neutral references? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.2.3.58 ( talk) 10:13, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
I don't know of any "independently published" material supporting this, however there is copious photographic evidence, multiple eyewitness accounts from members of his dojo who also participated, as well as a very nice conversation I had with the Dalai Lama's brother while in the company of Mr. Hayes where they talked about the "good old days" riding around in his "big car" (Mr. Hayes' personal verhicle was used to drive the Dalai Lama around while he was in the Ohio/Indiana mid-west area). To this day, the Dalai Lama doesn't visit his brother's center in Bloomington Indiana (on whose Board of Directors Mr. Hayes has served - and still may, not sure) without calling him to chat, and invite him out for a visit. -- Jikaku ( talk) 03:48, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
Ten seconds on Lexis Nexis:
* April 9, 1998, Thursday, HEADLINE: DEDICATED TOWARD HIS QUEST; STEPHEN K. HAYES WILL HELP WITH SECURITY FOR THE DALAI LAMA
BYLINE: Mickey Zezzo FOR THE DAYTON DAILY NEWS Greenshinobi ( talk) 21:05, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
I have no idea how to fix this one. -- Asperchu ( talk) 17:10, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Stephen K. Hayes article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | It is requested that an image or photograph be
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media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
Most of the statements in this page have no citations for them. Please provide citations for them, or they will be removed. Here is the list:
1. Black Belt Hall of Fame member, An-shu Hayes is a noted martial arts author. cite for Black Belt Hall of Fame
2. The nineteen books he has authored have sold over 1.3 million copies and have been translated into five languages only sixteen books listed. Need cite to bibliography or other source
3. He is a 1971 graduate of Miami University with a Bachelor of Arts degree in theater. difficult to verify. Ideally a source would be required, but not essential
4. He has worked as an actor, notably in the TV miniseries Shogun. source needed
5. He is married to Rumiko Urata. see comment for #3
6. The couple has two daughters, Reina and Marissa. see comment for #3
7. Stephen K. Hayes is considered an authority on ninjutsu and a knowledgeable practitioner of esoteric Tendai mikkyo Buddhism. source needed
8. Today, Mr. Hayes lives and works in Dayton, Ohio, and was once again featured on the cover of Black Belt magazine for their March 2007 issue. source needed for statement about Black Belt magazine
9. The issue contains a chapter from his soon-to-be-released book Ninja Vol 6, Secret Scrolls of the Warrior Sage. source needed
10. The magazine’s opening editorial as well focuses on Mr. Hayes, and describes him as "one of the 10 most influential living martial artists in the world." source needed
11. After graduating from Miami University in 1971, he spent time in search of authentic martial traditions, working his way up to sam dan in the Korean martial art of Tang Soo Do (tangsudo). see comment for #3
12. Frustrated with the limitations he'd encountered in his training, he packed his bags and headed for Japan. source needed
13. In June of 1975, he finally met the teacher he'd been seeking all his life in Grandmaster Masaaki Hatsumi, the founder of Bujinkan Dōjō. source needed
14. Stephen K. Hayes returned to the United States, and with his close friend Bud Malmstrom set off the "ninja boom" of the 1980s, creating one of the largest martial arts phenomena since Bruce Lee. source needed
15. During this time, he helped introduce ninjutsu to America and Western Europe and is responsible for many people becoming aware of ninjutsu. source needed
16. A number of today's senior American Bujinkan practitioners began training with Hayes during this time period, including Bud Malmstrom, Jack Hoban, Mark Davis, Jean-Pierre Seibel, Courtland Elliott, and many more. source needed
17. In 1991 Hayes also received Tokudo priesthood ordination in Tendai Buddhism from Tendai Master and Vajra Acharya Dr. Clark Jikai Choffy. source needed
18. In 1993, Hayes was awarded the judan (tenth degree black belt) degree from Grandmaster Hatsumi. source needed
19. In 1997, he founded the martial art of To-Shin Do, an art based in his experience of budo taijutsu and life experiences, including security escort work for the Dalai Lama of Tibet. source needed
20. Hayes has also founded a Buddhist Order based on his teachings and experiences with Tibetan Buddhism and Tendai called the Blue Lotus Assembly. source needed
21. Hayes and his SKH Quest Corporation have continued with their work of making martial arts accessible to people everywhere. source needed
22. The SKH Quest network now spans 18 schools in 12 states. source needed
23. During his time in Japan, Hayes occasionally worked as a photographic model. He can be seen in the handbook for the Canon AE1 camera, holding the camera. source needed
24. He was the stunt double for Richard Chamberlain in the TV miniseries Shogun. source needed
Again, this is an encyclopedia entry. Please see the standards on verifiability.
Dammokles 19:16, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
"Black Belt Hall of Fame member, An-shu Hayes is a noted martial arts author. cite for Black Belt Hall of Fame"
"Black Belt Hall of Fame" *is* the source.
"He is a 1971 graduate of Miami University with a Bachelor of Arts degree in theater. difficult to verify. Ideally a source would be required, but not essential"
Yeah, and we may want to make sure he's really a man, too, right?
"He has worked as an actor, notably in the TV miniseries Shogun. source needed" [ [1]] will add to article.
"He is married to Rumiko Urata. see comment for #3"
Stupid.
"The couple has two daughters, Reina and Marissa. see comment for #3"
Stupid.
"Today, Mr. Hayes lives and works in Dayton, Ohio, and was once again featured on the cover of Black Belt magazine for their March 2007 issue. source needed for statement about Black Belt magazine"
The source for the statement *is* the March 2007 issue.
"The issue contains a chapter from his soon-to-be-released book Ninja Vol 6, Secret Scrolls of the Warrior Sage. source needed"
See above - the magazine is the source. Etc. Etc. Etc. Jikaku 17:36, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Wondering if the section on the bujinkan affiliation needs to be removed (violation of living persons/biography) - it's certainly controversial, with little more than a lot of hearsay evidence, and links to comments from discussion forums (not suitable as sources according to wikipedia guidelines as far as I know). Even the jpg of a comment that appeared on the personal page of an administrator at the Bujinkan hombu doesn't list a name. Should this section be removed pending legit source? Jikaku 17:43, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
It is not academic, it is a fact. I was present the day Hatsumi Sensei asked George Ohashi to take down Steve's nafuda kake from the wall, saying "He no longer has anything to do with the Bujinkan." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.170.120.83 ( talk) 23:05, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Since there was confusion about whether the removal happened or not, I asked the administrator who was said to have been ordered to take down the name. His name is George Ohashi and he can be found at his own website for confirmation. Merely do a internet search of Bujinkan Ayase and Honbu classes scheduale and his name and you wil find his web page and how to contact him directly. I suggest that anyone who wishes to post the most truthful account here take the time to contact him before removing anything again. He can confirm that he was ordered to take it down and give the reasons he was given by Dr Hatsumi. Kidotai ( talk) 23:34, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
It is not that case at all. It is more a case of "I did it." You previously mentioned that even people who saw the event might not know what was going on. That is not the case here. George Ohashi knows what he did and why he did it. It is verifiable. It is easy to see that he is what he says. So there really does not seem to be a reason, other than convenience, for people to find out the truth. Kidotai ( talk) 05:24, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Actually, the web page I referenced is not self published. The author of the article is not the owner of the site. Kidotai ( talk) 21:57, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Since the last discussions of this were posted, there have been several updates in terms of what we know.
FACT: Hayes name plank was removed from the Bujinkin hombu wall. all parties agree.
However The explanation regarding the WHY is where we risk going into rumor and lack of substantiation.
Consequently, I think we should phrase it that Hayes' name plate was removed from the roster of active Bujinkin teachers. No one disputes that fact, and it keeps Wikipedia out of rumor mongering and sniping. Greenshinobi ( talk) 02:11, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Greenshinobi
Err where in the Bio guidelines? I looked and it just recommends WP:reliable sources. -- Nate1481( t/ c) 14:41, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
says: Material from self-published and questionable sources may be used as sources in articles about themselves, so long as:
it is relevant to their notability; it is not contentious; it is not unduly self-serving; it does not involve claims about third parties; it does not involve claims about events not directly related to the subject; there is no reasonable doubt as to who authored it; the article is not based primarily on such sources. Jikaku ( talk) 15:01, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Considering all the updates - I'm wondering if we can go ahead and remove he "needs citations" box from the page?
Jikaku (
talk) 13:16, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
I wonder about the source for the claim of being a bodyguard for the Dalai Lama. If I understand the guidelines, you try to avoid stuff that originates from the subject themselves and instead prefer other sources. But the source for the claims of being a bodyguard are linked to a site that is taken almost word for word from STephen Hayes' own website. It is a group that will allow you to join for a small fee and then supply the biographical information you want the world to see. And since there is a great deal of doubt that Stephen Hayes actually was a full fledged bodyguard, I wonder if this claim needs to be backed up by another source. Kidotai ( talk) 05:28, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
And to Nate1481: When you say 'I've lost count of the number of arts that Rangers, Seals and the SAS apparently use exclusively..' At the risk of being cynical the answer is just about all of them. Well, so many martial arts instructors/consultants claim to have trained special forces we could just as well list the people that don't claim to have instructed troops and law enforcement. Greenshinobi ( talk) 00:25, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Just wanted to briefly point out that a list of books authored by SKH was included with this bio, until it was argued that it didn't contibute much to the article, and that numerous links from the article lead to other references as well as places where you can buy the various books. I figure, if that's a good enough reason to not include the list, it's probably also a good enough reason to remove the "cite" tag from the authorship claim, doncha think? Jikaku ( talk) 12:13, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
>>In the 1990s, Hayes regularly served as personal protection escort and security advisor for 1989 Nobel Peace Prize winner, Tenzin >>Gyatso, the Dalai Lama of Tibet [9].
I dont think the Dalai Lama hires private body guards, other than his monks & the security provided by Indian government. the source for this claim is Mr Hayes own website. Are there any other more neutral references? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.2.3.58 ( talk) 10:13, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
I don't know of any "independently published" material supporting this, however there is copious photographic evidence, multiple eyewitness accounts from members of his dojo who also participated, as well as a very nice conversation I had with the Dalai Lama's brother while in the company of Mr. Hayes where they talked about the "good old days" riding around in his "big car" (Mr. Hayes' personal verhicle was used to drive the Dalai Lama around while he was in the Ohio/Indiana mid-west area). To this day, the Dalai Lama doesn't visit his brother's center in Bloomington Indiana (on whose Board of Directors Mr. Hayes has served - and still may, not sure) without calling him to chat, and invite him out for a visit. -- Jikaku ( talk) 03:48, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
Ten seconds on Lexis Nexis:
* April 9, 1998, Thursday, HEADLINE: DEDICATED TOWARD HIS QUEST; STEPHEN K. HAYES WILL HELP WITH SECURITY FOR THE DALAI LAMA
BYLINE: Mickey Zezzo FOR THE DAYTON DAILY NEWS Greenshinobi ( talk) 21:05, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
I have no idea how to fix this one. -- Asperchu ( talk) 17:10, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
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