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His name is Stepan Shahumyan, not Shaumyan. I know transliterating a name from Armenian to Russian to English can mess it up, but this should be fixed. -- RaffiKojian 17:12, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
The information contained in this edit can be found in many sources:
In March 1918 the leaders of Baku Commune attempted to disarm local Muslim forces, while leaving armed all other political forces in the city, which resulted in armed confrontation between the Bolshevik forces, supported by the Armenian nationalist Dashnak militants, and Muslim militia. After the defeat of Muslim forces Dashnaks killed thousands of Muslim civilians in the city of Baku and neighboring areas.
Please do not remove it just because you don't like it. Grandmaster 13:34, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
In addition to Smith, here's another source:
In March 1918 a showdown over the Soviet's demands for the disarming of Muslim troops ended with a two-day-long rampage through Muslim neighborhoods by Armenian soldiers allied with the Soviet, during which the soldiers set fire to a large part of the city and killed thousands.
Benjamin Lieberman. Terrible Fate: Ethnic Cleansing in the Making of Modern Europe. ISBN-10: 1566636469
-- Grandmaster 13:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Please explain why such a notable scholar as Smith is not acceptable. Also, what Septemeber events have to do with Shaumian? He was not involved, by that time he left to Turkmenistan. Grandmaster 05:38, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I have striked out the following in the article. I don't its relevant in the article. it just sticks out.
IF someone wants to integrate that into the article it would be nice. I personalty don't see anywhere that it can be added. VartanM 21:42, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't think words like "hostile Turkish army" with wikilink to ethnicity of Turks are at all appropriate and neutral in this case. So, let's avoid original research in future. Shaumian prepared for struggle against Ottoman Army of Islam not Turkish army as known today per se, moreover, he was deposed and executed by Britons not Turks. Atabek 20:55, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
All good points. Also, the sources on this article write that 10,000-20,000 Armenians were killed by Enver's forces; while March Days appear to be pretty horrific, the number dead seem to disqualify it from the conditional "most" and by itself, seems too unnecessary and far too specific for a lead about a Soviet revolutionary. -- Marshal Bagramyan 21:54, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
What do alleged actions by Dashnaks in March 1918 have to do with Chairman Shahumyan? And it's also a distortion of history to portray the Baku Soviet's retaliation against Azerbaijani nationalist massacres against Russians in the winter of 1917-18 and the attempted coup of March 1918 in Baku as massacres against Muslims. Kupredu ( talk) 22:15, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I quoted Kazemzadeh at March Days talk, here's another source:
In March 1918 a showdown over the Soviet's demands for the disarming of Muslim troops ended with a two-day-long rampage through Muslim neighborhoods by Armenian soldiers allied with the Soviet, during which the soldiers set fire to a large part of the city and killed thousands.
Benjamin Lieberman. Terrible Fate: Ethnic Cleansing in the Making of Modern Europe. ISBN-10: 1566636469
Where do you see any mention of coup? Grand master 04:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
It was everywhere in Azerbaijan. even Smith, who is welcomed in Azerbaijan, writes, that "Besides the random acts of self-arming by Muslim groups and defence committees throughout the winter, Muslim civic leaders in Ganja and Baku also began to prepare national militias to promote self-determination through self-defence, or what they also called the 'law and order and well-being of the region'. They now turned to the worst, but for them the only, possible alternative: the armed remnants of the Savage Division scattered throughout the Transcaucasus. These tensions broke into open conflict in January 1918. Under the authority of both the anti-Bolshevik 'Transcaucasus Commissariat' at Tiflis and the Muslim National Committee at Ganja (represented in Bolshevik propaganda as counter-revolutionary institutions within the dual power), Muslim forces disarmed Russian soldiers at Lenkoran and Shamkor, killing over 1000 in the latter skirmish. Here was concrete proof that, in the words of the Bolshevik Commissar, Alesha Dzhaparidze, Muslim forces were 'closing a counterrevolutionary circle around' Baku, advancing eastward from the Caucasus front, threatening from the North Caucaus and Dagestan, from Ganja and Shemakha, from Mugan and Lenkoran." Gazifikator ( talk) 06:47, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
Sorry I see nothing else to discuss. We have sources we need to incorporate it to the artilce. There are many sources on revolt, if all of these RS's are minority or wrong, you're free to add any comments by other authors. It is for WP:NPOV. Gazifikator ( talk) 06:49, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
Judging by POV and IP location, 71.143.159.202 ( talk · contribs · WHOIS) appears to be banned user Jacob Peters/ Kupredu. Grand master 10:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
The IP reverted the article back to a months old version without any discussion or consensus. That is not appropriate, and I suspect that we are dealing with the same banned user who edit warred on this article before, most probably Jacob Peters/ Kupredu. Please discuss and reach consensus first, and for banned users it would be better to get the community permission to edit AA articles. For genuine newcomers (though it does not look like the IP is editing for the first time) it would be best to get registered. Grand master 11:05, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.
The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.
Please help us determine consensus on this issue. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 22:35, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved, unopposed. Will add a hatnote to the top of this article. Jenks24 ( talk) 08:31, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
Stepan Shahumyan →
Stepan Shaumian –
WP:COMMONNAME
Երևանցի
talk 20:18, 24 September 2015 (UTC) Relisted.
Jenks24 (
talk)
00:15, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
Google Books (excluding results from Wikipedia):
Google Scholar (i.e. academic articles):
I would like to once again state my opposition to the use of Shaumian as a completely nonsensical way to write the man's name. He was Armenian, and his name had an H in it. Just because the Russian language does not have an H, does not mean we should permanently desecrate his name, simply because the study of this man has been done by Ruso-centric scholars so far. It's a bad idea, and I'm not sure anyone even showed up to discuss the matter. RaffiKojian ( talk) 06:36, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:51, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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His name is Stepan Shahumyan, not Shaumyan. I know transliterating a name from Armenian to Russian to English can mess it up, but this should be fixed. -- RaffiKojian 17:12, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
The information contained in this edit can be found in many sources:
In March 1918 the leaders of Baku Commune attempted to disarm local Muslim forces, while leaving armed all other political forces in the city, which resulted in armed confrontation between the Bolshevik forces, supported by the Armenian nationalist Dashnak militants, and Muslim militia. After the defeat of Muslim forces Dashnaks killed thousands of Muslim civilians in the city of Baku and neighboring areas.
Please do not remove it just because you don't like it. Grandmaster 13:34, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
In addition to Smith, here's another source:
In March 1918 a showdown over the Soviet's demands for the disarming of Muslim troops ended with a two-day-long rampage through Muslim neighborhoods by Armenian soldiers allied with the Soviet, during which the soldiers set fire to a large part of the city and killed thousands.
Benjamin Lieberman. Terrible Fate: Ethnic Cleansing in the Making of Modern Europe. ISBN-10: 1566636469
-- Grandmaster 13:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Please explain why such a notable scholar as Smith is not acceptable. Also, what Septemeber events have to do with Shaumian? He was not involved, by that time he left to Turkmenistan. Grandmaster 05:38, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I have striked out the following in the article. I don't its relevant in the article. it just sticks out.
IF someone wants to integrate that into the article it would be nice. I personalty don't see anywhere that it can be added. VartanM 21:42, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't think words like "hostile Turkish army" with wikilink to ethnicity of Turks are at all appropriate and neutral in this case. So, let's avoid original research in future. Shaumian prepared for struggle against Ottoman Army of Islam not Turkish army as known today per se, moreover, he was deposed and executed by Britons not Turks. Atabek 20:55, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
All good points. Also, the sources on this article write that 10,000-20,000 Armenians were killed by Enver's forces; while March Days appear to be pretty horrific, the number dead seem to disqualify it from the conditional "most" and by itself, seems too unnecessary and far too specific for a lead about a Soviet revolutionary. -- Marshal Bagramyan 21:54, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
What do alleged actions by Dashnaks in March 1918 have to do with Chairman Shahumyan? And it's also a distortion of history to portray the Baku Soviet's retaliation against Azerbaijani nationalist massacres against Russians in the winter of 1917-18 and the attempted coup of March 1918 in Baku as massacres against Muslims. Kupredu ( talk) 22:15, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I quoted Kazemzadeh at March Days talk, here's another source:
In March 1918 a showdown over the Soviet's demands for the disarming of Muslim troops ended with a two-day-long rampage through Muslim neighborhoods by Armenian soldiers allied with the Soviet, during which the soldiers set fire to a large part of the city and killed thousands.
Benjamin Lieberman. Terrible Fate: Ethnic Cleansing in the Making of Modern Europe. ISBN-10: 1566636469
Where do you see any mention of coup? Grand master 04:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
It was everywhere in Azerbaijan. even Smith, who is welcomed in Azerbaijan, writes, that "Besides the random acts of self-arming by Muslim groups and defence committees throughout the winter, Muslim civic leaders in Ganja and Baku also began to prepare national militias to promote self-determination through self-defence, or what they also called the 'law and order and well-being of the region'. They now turned to the worst, but for them the only, possible alternative: the armed remnants of the Savage Division scattered throughout the Transcaucasus. These tensions broke into open conflict in January 1918. Under the authority of both the anti-Bolshevik 'Transcaucasus Commissariat' at Tiflis and the Muslim National Committee at Ganja (represented in Bolshevik propaganda as counter-revolutionary institutions within the dual power), Muslim forces disarmed Russian soldiers at Lenkoran and Shamkor, killing over 1000 in the latter skirmish. Here was concrete proof that, in the words of the Bolshevik Commissar, Alesha Dzhaparidze, Muslim forces were 'closing a counterrevolutionary circle around' Baku, advancing eastward from the Caucasus front, threatening from the North Caucaus and Dagestan, from Ganja and Shemakha, from Mugan and Lenkoran." Gazifikator ( talk) 06:47, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
Sorry I see nothing else to discuss. We have sources we need to incorporate it to the artilce. There are many sources on revolt, if all of these RS's are minority or wrong, you're free to add any comments by other authors. It is for WP:NPOV. Gazifikator ( talk) 06:49, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
Judging by POV and IP location, 71.143.159.202 ( talk · contribs · WHOIS) appears to be banned user Jacob Peters/ Kupredu. Grand master 10:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
The IP reverted the article back to a months old version without any discussion or consensus. That is not appropriate, and I suspect that we are dealing with the same banned user who edit warred on this article before, most probably Jacob Peters/ Kupredu. Please discuss and reach consensus first, and for banned users it would be better to get the community permission to edit AA articles. For genuine newcomers (though it does not look like the IP is editing for the first time) it would be best to get registered. Grand master 11:05, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.
The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.
Please help us determine consensus on this issue. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 22:35, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved, unopposed. Will add a hatnote to the top of this article. Jenks24 ( talk) 08:31, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
Stepan Shahumyan →
Stepan Shaumian –
WP:COMMONNAME
Երևանցի
talk 20:18, 24 September 2015 (UTC) Relisted.
Jenks24 (
talk)
00:15, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
Google Books (excluding results from Wikipedia):
Google Scholar (i.e. academic articles):
I would like to once again state my opposition to the use of Shaumian as a completely nonsensical way to write the man's name. He was Armenian, and his name had an H in it. Just because the Russian language does not have an H, does not mean we should permanently desecrate his name, simply because the study of this man has been done by Ruso-centric scholars so far. It's a bad idea, and I'm not sure anyone even showed up to discuss the matter. RaffiKojian ( talk) 06:36, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:51, 8 March 2019 (UTC)