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Um... I don't see the "Stenka Razin song" as being very relevant to the article itself... It is not a song that is extraordinarily popular or well-known in Russia.
Something is seriously wrong with the translation of the stenka razin song.
Stenka Razin always been (and still is) one of the most well known and popular songs in Russia. Fisenko 03:44, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
Yes..I'm not undervaluating your work, I'm just saying you made a few mistakes. The order of the verses is mixed: translation of the 3rd russian verse cannot be found. The 4th russian verse is consistent with the 3rd english, the 5th russian with 4th english (and so on) and the 10th english verse is not consistent with any of the russian verses. So the biggest problem I see are the 3rd russian and the 10th english verse being an orphans.
The next inconsistency is as follows. On the bottom of the page, this text is written: "It is one of the few Russian folk songs still remembered, and popular as a drinking song, the culmination being, of course:
And he hurls her overboard Right into the surging wave... "
This exact phrase cannot be found in the translation. I know, the meaning is the same, only written with different words (And has cast her where the waters/Of the Volga roll and sigh), but anyway..lack of consistency is preventing this article from being great. Leonr 16:16, 27 November 2005 (UTC+1)
Yes the song is messed up. Let us hope that is can be properly sequenced.
I wrote the french article for Stenka Razine, which is (i think) more complete. Do you want that I translate it?
Shouldn't the song have a separate page? ( Msrasnw ( talk) 22:45, 13 May 2008 (UTC))
"not a song that is extraordinarily popular or well-known in Russia"? Mikkalai, you must be joking. It is in tons of folk music compilations and many films. It's very well known. Or at least was until recently (I can't speak for the present situation as I don't live there).
In reply to all the complaints about the "artistic license" of the English translation, perhaps it would make sense to also add a completely literal, non-rhyming English translation or each line? Esn ( talk) 02:25, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
I sang the English version of this song at my primary school in the seventies. I found this article by typing in the first stanza, the only one I could remember in full. So, at least for me, the song (and I suppose its translation too) was important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.222.184.132 ( talk) 09:09, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I would like to know if there is a scientific reference to the song's origin, where it stems from etc. The German robber song parody "Butter Räuber von Halberstadt" is sung to the same melody and you find it e.g. in a 1863 collection. The moritat genre is quite generic. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Arebenti (
talk •
contribs)
21:18, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
The transcription/transliteration of the Russian is the weirdest thing I've ever seen. What on earth are ą, ę, ě, ǒ (among others)? They certainly don't correspond meaningfully to elements of the Russian phonological system. C0pernicus ( talk) 10:20, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
Some of the passages here seem a bit flowery. Now, personally, I don't mind that, and I'm not a fan of the seeming tendency to declare anything that is not bland and matter-of-fact as "unencyclopaedic". However, there is one line that goes too far, to the point of being difficult to parse: "Stenka Razin, as he was generally called, had now become a potentate with whom princes did not disdain to treat". I presume that what the double negatives and old-fashioned language are saying is simply "... he had become powerful and influential enough that princes were prepared to negotiate with him", but it took a couple of re-readings to get that, so it should probably be rewritten. Wardog ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:09, 17 August 2011 (UTC).
Styenka (Stenka) in Russian means wall. It's symbolic. Something on the lines of "Stonewall" Jackson. A reference to this in the main body might be relevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SBader ( talk • contribs) 04:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Razin (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 22:50, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
In the section In Russian language culture and folklore, the text reads "The song recounts that Razin aboard the ship tames the princess". This is the first time that either a ship or a princess is mentioned in the article, and the terms are not further explained later. As it stands, the paragraph is very unclear, and does not appear to relate to anything else in the article. Could someone expand this, and explain which princess was thrown off of which ship? RolandR ( talk) 15:15, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
The recording seems to have two different tunes and two singers overlaid on the same track. I found the same thing when playing the file on Wikimedia. Something strange is happening; it's as if The two tunes play together but one can be stopped before the other. The technical stuff is beyond me so all I can do is point out the problem.
Incidentally, the tune Stenka Razin is the basis for the Seekers song "the carnival is over" written by Tom Springfield. This fact is a stretch for an article about the person Stenka Razin, but might be worth mentioning in a note. Humphrey Tribble ( talk) 06:28, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Um... I don't see the "Stenka Razin song" as being very relevant to the article itself... It is not a song that is extraordinarily popular or well-known in Russia.
Something is seriously wrong with the translation of the stenka razin song.
Stenka Razin always been (and still is) one of the most well known and popular songs in Russia. Fisenko 03:44, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
Yes..I'm not undervaluating your work, I'm just saying you made a few mistakes. The order of the verses is mixed: translation of the 3rd russian verse cannot be found. The 4th russian verse is consistent with the 3rd english, the 5th russian with 4th english (and so on) and the 10th english verse is not consistent with any of the russian verses. So the biggest problem I see are the 3rd russian and the 10th english verse being an orphans.
The next inconsistency is as follows. On the bottom of the page, this text is written: "It is one of the few Russian folk songs still remembered, and popular as a drinking song, the culmination being, of course:
And he hurls her overboard Right into the surging wave... "
This exact phrase cannot be found in the translation. I know, the meaning is the same, only written with different words (And has cast her where the waters/Of the Volga roll and sigh), but anyway..lack of consistency is preventing this article from being great. Leonr 16:16, 27 November 2005 (UTC+1)
Yes the song is messed up. Let us hope that is can be properly sequenced.
I wrote the french article for Stenka Razine, which is (i think) more complete. Do you want that I translate it?
Shouldn't the song have a separate page? ( Msrasnw ( talk) 22:45, 13 May 2008 (UTC))
"not a song that is extraordinarily popular or well-known in Russia"? Mikkalai, you must be joking. It is in tons of folk music compilations and many films. It's very well known. Or at least was until recently (I can't speak for the present situation as I don't live there).
In reply to all the complaints about the "artistic license" of the English translation, perhaps it would make sense to also add a completely literal, non-rhyming English translation or each line? Esn ( talk) 02:25, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
I sang the English version of this song at my primary school in the seventies. I found this article by typing in the first stanza, the only one I could remember in full. So, at least for me, the song (and I suppose its translation too) was important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.222.184.132 ( talk) 09:09, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I would like to know if there is a scientific reference to the song's origin, where it stems from etc. The German robber song parody "Butter Räuber von Halberstadt" is sung to the same melody and you find it e.g. in a 1863 collection. The moritat genre is quite generic. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Arebenti (
talk •
contribs)
21:18, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
The transcription/transliteration of the Russian is the weirdest thing I've ever seen. What on earth are ą, ę, ě, ǒ (among others)? They certainly don't correspond meaningfully to elements of the Russian phonological system. C0pernicus ( talk) 10:20, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
Some of the passages here seem a bit flowery. Now, personally, I don't mind that, and I'm not a fan of the seeming tendency to declare anything that is not bland and matter-of-fact as "unencyclopaedic". However, there is one line that goes too far, to the point of being difficult to parse: "Stenka Razin, as he was generally called, had now become a potentate with whom princes did not disdain to treat". I presume that what the double negatives and old-fashioned language are saying is simply "... he had become powerful and influential enough that princes were prepared to negotiate with him", but it took a couple of re-readings to get that, so it should probably be rewritten. Wardog ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:09, 17 August 2011 (UTC).
Styenka (Stenka) in Russian means wall. It's symbolic. Something on the lines of "Stonewall" Jackson. A reference to this in the main body might be relevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SBader ( talk • contribs) 04:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Razin (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 22:50, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
In the section In Russian language culture and folklore, the text reads "The song recounts that Razin aboard the ship tames the princess". This is the first time that either a ship or a princess is mentioned in the article, and the terms are not further explained later. As it stands, the paragraph is very unclear, and does not appear to relate to anything else in the article. Could someone expand this, and explain which princess was thrown off of which ship? RolandR ( talk) 15:15, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
The recording seems to have two different tunes and two singers overlaid on the same track. I found the same thing when playing the file on Wikimedia. Something strange is happening; it's as if The two tunes play together but one can be stopped before the other. The technical stuff is beyond me so all I can do is point out the problem.
Incidentally, the tune Stenka Razin is the basis for the Seekers song "the carnival is over" written by Tom Springfield. This fact is a stretch for an article about the person Stenka Razin, but might be worth mentioning in a note. Humphrey Tribble ( talk) 06:28, 5 March 2022 (UTC)