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found this on 3QD today, it's an article in the UK Guardian re: steampunk. I'm never signed in, so I can't do any edits myself, but it's got lots of nice references for getting the page annotated a little better. Thats the problem with strange new lifestyle/literary genres poking up - we never get 'real' references until after the movement is well underway, if at all.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/oct/17/popandrock2 is the link - but it's the UK Guardian, from Friday, October 17th, 2008.
Hope that helps people out! 198.204.92.102 ( talk) 15:09, 18 October 2008 (UTC)librarian
While the comptuer modified in steampunk style is gorgeous I don't think it's the best picture to have as the first picture of the article. Steampunk is primarly a genre of fiction, so I think it would be more relevant to have a picture of some steampunk fiction, for example cover of a stempunk novel or images from a steampunk comic or movie. Shubi ( talk) 00:45, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
While entertaining the picture of Lincoln doesn't belong anywhere on this article Halofanatic333 ( talk) 12:19, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
A couple of attempts have been made to add this, which were then reverted due to lack of source. I'd say that if a source cannot be provided, removal is better than simply tagging and waiting for a cite that will never come. The photo seems to be user-made, which hints at original research imo. Yobmod ( talk) 13:12, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Wikilinks are never reliable sources, and the François Schuiten page does not even contain the word Steampunk. Please stop edit warring, and discuss on the talk page. preferably with a reason that a citation calling the station Steampunk style is not being given. Yobmod ( talk) 14:17, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Can people give rational reasons why most bands should not simply be listed at the list of steampunk works, given that they only have passing mentions calling them steampunk? I see it as a purely editorial decision, in that this article is for describing the multiple genres of fashion, literature, film and music that are called steampunk, and listing each and every band or work damages the article unless they illuminate a sourced point about these genres.
As most of the edits to this page are fans or creators of bands/works, should we just merge the list page into this? I think this would be a detriment to wikipedia's coverage of the genre, and result in a poorly written and formatted article, but the constant complaining that editors are somehow bullying minor bands by not alowing them more prominent advertising space on wikipedia is really getting old.
Note, imo, only 4 (at most!) bands need to be mentioned, preferably the 4 most notable, with wikipages of their own that would survive AfD, that would illustrate the only sourced point about steampunk music: that we have no idea what it is, and it has no thematic cohesion yet. (At the moment, this would exclude Clockwork Quartet, Thomas Truax, Dr. Steel).
So do we have a consensus to either: merge, or only keep the most notable examples on this page. Yobmod ( talk) 08:26, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
There is steampunk music which is symphonic. Why just mention one kind of music? Besides, I don't know of any "bands" which are actually worth more than a brief mention. It could be said that anything too typical as might be performed by a rock band is certainly not steampunk. Maybe if the group has ophcicaledes or saxhorns? 75.48.38.184 ( talk) 21:53, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
There are now 5 (or more?) articles that could be searched for using Steampunk. The genre, list, comic, anthology and magazine. The current old hatnote cannot could not cope with this, so i created a disambig page, but kept this as the main page.
Yobmod (
talk)
09:06, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
The final uncited paragraphs i'm moving here. No-one found tags after 2 months, so i think they are OR.
“ | Some prototypical steampunk stories were essentially cyberpunk tales that were set in the past, using steam-era technology rather than the ubiquitous cybernetics of cyberpunk but maintaining those stories' " punkish" attitudes towards authority figures and human nature. citation needed Originally, like cyberpunk, steampunk was often dystopian, sometimes with noir and pulp fiction themes as in cyberpunk. citation needed As the genre developed, it came to adopt more of the broadly appealing utopian sensibilities of Victorian scientific romances. citation needed | ” |
“ | Steampunk fiction focuses more intently on real, theoretical or cinematic Victorian-era technology, including steam engines, clockwork devices, and difference engines. While much of steampunk is set in Victorian-era settings, the genre has expanded into medieval settings citation needed and often delves into the realms of horror and fantasy. Various secret societies and conspiracy theories are often featured, and some steampunk includes significant fantasy elements. There are frequently Lovecraftian, occult and Gothic horror influences as well. citation needed | ” |
Yobmod ( talk) 14:38, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
What is this section for? Can it exist at all, given its massively WP:OR nature?
As it stands, it appears to be one editor's WP:OR views on which materials are "genuinely steampunk". Even within that, it's anachronistic. Engineered stone is a fine steampunk material, as is engineered wood (plywood was in widespread use for much of the era, albeit not particle board or MDF). Steel was rarely used by the Victorians until fairly late and they favoured cast or wrought iron instead. Not to mention the utter lack of WP:RS.
Now here's the crunch: there's no such thing as steampunk. It's a modern fiction, not a historical reality. So it is ridiculous to describe it as if it were.
Can we describe the materials used by steampunks today? Yes, and we might have to do it twice: Once for the materials they claim to be using (Harris tweed, brass and ivory) and once for the actual materials in use: nylon, painted plastic and celluloid. We cannot say with a straight face that "steampunks don't use synthetic fabrics because they didn't exist" - just look at the level of costuming at any even today! Steampunks are even worse than the SCA for anachronistic fabrics.
Then there's the issue of deliberate anachronism by contemporary steampunks. Show me one steampunk who will turn down a nice shiny piece of titanium! Not to mention the cybergoth crossovers with their plastic hair and circuit-board underwear.
So what is this section about? A consensus description of "favoured materials for the scene"? (which needs sourcing, and toning down from its absolutist position). Or a WP:GUIDE on how to make your own garb? Andy Dingley ( talk) 15:17, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
" The fictional world of steampunk books, cartoons, and movies is generally devoid of advanced materials developed after approximately 1930, but may include certain modern sciences such as genetics, that could have been developed using alternate methods. It may also include what are now discredited sciences such as phlogiston theory.
Real crafted objects and costumes built in the style of steampunk usually have exceptions to these design limits. For example the computer interface shown in this article could not exist without the plastics of the LCD panel, or the integrated circuits that make the LCD function. These details are hidden under a facade that tries to outwardly appear to be authentic to the older technology."
I moved this here, as it has no citations, and appears to be one editors OR in it's entirety. Yob Mod 08:24, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
j —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.244.191.249 ( talk) 04:29, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Well regarding the materials used you have to look at the world in which the story takes place. Who says all steampunk is on earth? Maybe its on a different planet where a plant grows with a stim that was the same tendancies as ruber? Or if you want to consider steampunk fantasy why cant you mix it with magic, like a rock thats been enchanted with fire wouldn't that rock be used instead of cole? In a novel i had written i had said that engineers used magic as a fuel for their machines. Now some people would say thats a whole in the plot why would they use machines at all then? Well once again you have to concider the back ground maybe magic is unstable or restricted to a few rich families so before you say what can and can't be used think of the envirnment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.237.14.28 ( talk) 21:34, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
found this on 3QD today, it's an article in the UK Guardian re: steampunk. I'm never signed in, so I can't do any edits myself, but it's got lots of nice references for getting the page annotated a little better. Thats the problem with strange new lifestyle/literary genres poking up - we never get 'real' references until after the movement is well underway, if at all.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/oct/17/popandrock2 is the link - but it's the UK Guardian, from Friday, October 17th, 2008.
Hope that helps people out! 198.204.92.102 ( talk) 15:09, 18 October 2008 (UTC)librarian
While the comptuer modified in steampunk style is gorgeous I don't think it's the best picture to have as the first picture of the article. Steampunk is primarly a genre of fiction, so I think it would be more relevant to have a picture of some steampunk fiction, for example cover of a stempunk novel or images from a steampunk comic or movie. Shubi ( talk) 00:45, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
While entertaining the picture of Lincoln doesn't belong anywhere on this article Halofanatic333 ( talk) 12:19, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
A couple of attempts have been made to add this, which were then reverted due to lack of source. I'd say that if a source cannot be provided, removal is better than simply tagging and waiting for a cite that will never come. The photo seems to be user-made, which hints at original research imo. Yobmod ( talk) 13:12, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Wikilinks are never reliable sources, and the François Schuiten page does not even contain the word Steampunk. Please stop edit warring, and discuss on the talk page. preferably with a reason that a citation calling the station Steampunk style is not being given. Yobmod ( talk) 14:17, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Can people give rational reasons why most bands should not simply be listed at the list of steampunk works, given that they only have passing mentions calling them steampunk? I see it as a purely editorial decision, in that this article is for describing the multiple genres of fashion, literature, film and music that are called steampunk, and listing each and every band or work damages the article unless they illuminate a sourced point about these genres.
As most of the edits to this page are fans or creators of bands/works, should we just merge the list page into this? I think this would be a detriment to wikipedia's coverage of the genre, and result in a poorly written and formatted article, but the constant complaining that editors are somehow bullying minor bands by not alowing them more prominent advertising space on wikipedia is really getting old.
Note, imo, only 4 (at most!) bands need to be mentioned, preferably the 4 most notable, with wikipages of their own that would survive AfD, that would illustrate the only sourced point about steampunk music: that we have no idea what it is, and it has no thematic cohesion yet. (At the moment, this would exclude Clockwork Quartet, Thomas Truax, Dr. Steel).
So do we have a consensus to either: merge, or only keep the most notable examples on this page. Yobmod ( talk) 08:26, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
There is steampunk music which is symphonic. Why just mention one kind of music? Besides, I don't know of any "bands" which are actually worth more than a brief mention. It could be said that anything too typical as might be performed by a rock band is certainly not steampunk. Maybe if the group has ophcicaledes or saxhorns? 75.48.38.184 ( talk) 21:53, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
There are now 5 (or more?) articles that could be searched for using Steampunk. The genre, list, comic, anthology and magazine. The current old hatnote cannot could not cope with this, so i created a disambig page, but kept this as the main page.
Yobmod (
talk)
09:06, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
The final uncited paragraphs i'm moving here. No-one found tags after 2 months, so i think they are OR.
“ | Some prototypical steampunk stories were essentially cyberpunk tales that were set in the past, using steam-era technology rather than the ubiquitous cybernetics of cyberpunk but maintaining those stories' " punkish" attitudes towards authority figures and human nature. citation needed Originally, like cyberpunk, steampunk was often dystopian, sometimes with noir and pulp fiction themes as in cyberpunk. citation needed As the genre developed, it came to adopt more of the broadly appealing utopian sensibilities of Victorian scientific romances. citation needed | ” |
“ | Steampunk fiction focuses more intently on real, theoretical or cinematic Victorian-era technology, including steam engines, clockwork devices, and difference engines. While much of steampunk is set in Victorian-era settings, the genre has expanded into medieval settings citation needed and often delves into the realms of horror and fantasy. Various secret societies and conspiracy theories are often featured, and some steampunk includes significant fantasy elements. There are frequently Lovecraftian, occult and Gothic horror influences as well. citation needed | ” |
Yobmod ( talk) 14:38, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
What is this section for? Can it exist at all, given its massively WP:OR nature?
As it stands, it appears to be one editor's WP:OR views on which materials are "genuinely steampunk". Even within that, it's anachronistic. Engineered stone is a fine steampunk material, as is engineered wood (plywood was in widespread use for much of the era, albeit not particle board or MDF). Steel was rarely used by the Victorians until fairly late and they favoured cast or wrought iron instead. Not to mention the utter lack of WP:RS.
Now here's the crunch: there's no such thing as steampunk. It's a modern fiction, not a historical reality. So it is ridiculous to describe it as if it were.
Can we describe the materials used by steampunks today? Yes, and we might have to do it twice: Once for the materials they claim to be using (Harris tweed, brass and ivory) and once for the actual materials in use: nylon, painted plastic and celluloid. We cannot say with a straight face that "steampunks don't use synthetic fabrics because they didn't exist" - just look at the level of costuming at any even today! Steampunks are even worse than the SCA for anachronistic fabrics.
Then there's the issue of deliberate anachronism by contemporary steampunks. Show me one steampunk who will turn down a nice shiny piece of titanium! Not to mention the cybergoth crossovers with their plastic hair and circuit-board underwear.
So what is this section about? A consensus description of "favoured materials for the scene"? (which needs sourcing, and toning down from its absolutist position). Or a WP:GUIDE on how to make your own garb? Andy Dingley ( talk) 15:17, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
" The fictional world of steampunk books, cartoons, and movies is generally devoid of advanced materials developed after approximately 1930, but may include certain modern sciences such as genetics, that could have been developed using alternate methods. It may also include what are now discredited sciences such as phlogiston theory.
Real crafted objects and costumes built in the style of steampunk usually have exceptions to these design limits. For example the computer interface shown in this article could not exist without the plastics of the LCD panel, or the integrated circuits that make the LCD function. These details are hidden under a facade that tries to outwardly appear to be authentic to the older technology."
I moved this here, as it has no citations, and appears to be one editors OR in it's entirety. Yob Mod 08:24, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
j —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.244.191.249 ( talk) 04:29, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Well regarding the materials used you have to look at the world in which the story takes place. Who says all steampunk is on earth? Maybe its on a different planet where a plant grows with a stim that was the same tendancies as ruber? Or if you want to consider steampunk fantasy why cant you mix it with magic, like a rock thats been enchanted with fire wouldn't that rock be used instead of cole? In a novel i had written i had said that engineers used magic as a fuel for their machines. Now some people would say thats a whole in the plot why would they use machines at all then? Well once again you have to concider the back ground maybe magic is unstable or restricted to a few rich families so before you say what can and can't be used think of the envirnment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.237.14.28 ( talk) 21:34, 26 September 2010 (UTC)