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Wikipedia is not a newspaper. The Reagan text should be streamlined to discuss state funerals in the U.S. in general. It should not be a narrative of current events because this is an encyclopedia. Specific relevant text belongs at Ronald Reagan. -- Jia ng 11:55, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Text at http://199.231.147.241/general/index.html is public domain. -- Jia ng 11:59, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I agree, the repeated mentions of facts from Ronald Reagan's Presidency distrupt the flow of a discussion about US Presidential funeral practices. These points rightly belong in the Ronald_Reagan article. I'm willing to streamline them if needed, although I'd prefer the author to do so as I'm not an authority on this particular subject.
Changed "casket" to "coffin", since casket is a euphemism. 156.34.52.212 15:05, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
HAs any U.S. President ever laid in state with an open casket? That should be in this article, i.e. whether or not it has ever happened and to whom. - Husnock 6 Feb 05
If the sailors-pulling-the-coffin tradition dates to Victoria's funeral, and is the only dinstinctive feature of a state funeral, how can those who died prior to Victoria (Nelson, Wellington, Gladstone) have had a state funeral?
This article seems fairly biased. Many countries have state funerals (inluding e.g. Belgium, and the former Soviet Union). However only 3 current nations, UK, US and Canada are mentioned and one religious group Roman Catholic Church). Most surprisingly however is the mention without any kind of context of Nazi-German state funerals, why is this special enough to include. I would suggest a fairly thorough overhaul of this article. Arnoutf 19:08, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
Keeping in mind that this is an article about State funerals above all else, I have removed speculation and opinions about what the events of 9/11 may or may not have caused and what terrorists may or may not be targetting. A suggestion to SNIyer12: Contributing quotes from government officials and cited sources are a much better idea than using highly POV phrases like "these all sent two dreadful messages: state funerals are events of historic nature and terrorists want to disrupt it." This is not the only article I've seen you add such opinion and speculation to. -- Ds13 19:43, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Three times in three days, I have removed the claim (or its equivalent) by SNIyer12 that (U.S.) "state funerals are events that are terrorist targets". Lacking cited evidence that terrorists have attacked or planned to attack a U.S. state funeral, I have repeatedly replaced this claim with the wording "state funerals may be terrorist targets". I believe this is reasonable, since to assert that "state funerals are events that are terrorist targets" assumes knowledge that has not been shared, despite multiple requests for it.
SNIyer12 claims that John Ashcroft "also warned that there were therats of a terrorist attack" but this warning has not been cited. SNIyer12, we can put this issue to rest if you will share your knowledge of Ashcroft's warning or the specifics of a terrorist threat to a U.S. state funeral. -- Ds13 23:56, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Just a few questions re: the section on Canada. The article presently states that state funerals are only available for PMs and GGs. However, I was under the impression that the PM could declare a state funeral for any eminent Canadian (as I believe Martin did in the case of war hero "Smokey" Smith).
It also states equivocally that PM's lie in state in the Hall of honour, and GG's in the Senate Chamber. I seem to recall from when Hnatyshyn died that his casket was in the Senate Chamber not because of protocol, but at his request because his father served as a Senator. I do not recall what occurred when Sauve died, so i have no reference point.
On a related point, when Stanley Knowles passed away, his bodied lay in state in the foyer of the House of Commons. While I don't believe he was accorded a full state funeral, it certainly lends credence to the idea that things such as where the casket rests are not as etched in stone as this article suggests.
I wanted to clear these issues up before I started editing willy-nilly.
I have added Lord Palmerston's name to the list of non-royals who have had a state funeral.
However, there was no vote in Parliament for Lord Palmerston. Parliament was already prorogued at the time of his death and remained so until after the funeral. There was a subsequent vote of money for a statue.( 80.3.76.147 ( talk) 07:28, 10 April 2013 (UTC))
"in the case of Pope John Paul II the camerlengo called "Carolus""
Latin vocative ending = -e so should this not be "Carole" (viz. "Et tu Brute?" from Brut-us)
'The real distinction between a state funeral and a ceremonial funeral is that a state funeral requires a motion or vote in Parliament.'
Is there any source whatsoever for that? As far as I know a state funeral is given by command of the monarch, not by Parliament. -- Ibagli ( Talk) 03:25, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
What about republics?
Does anybody have a link to perhaps a PDF version of the mentioned 138-page planning document for state funerals, or is this secure information?
It is impossible to list and detail every country and former country in the world on this page. The article should start out with some general aspects of state funerals and link to individual pages on state funerals eg State funerals in the United States for each country.-- Jiang 01:18, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Were the legs of Brezhnev, Andropov & Chereneko amputated around the knees? I've found their lower bodies seemed strangley short within their open caskets. GoodDay ( talk) 21:03, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
I feel that the section "State funeral for King Taufa'ahau Tupou IV" is overly large and descriptive for such a specific event, I think it should be trimmed down or moved to a page specifically for this event. any objections/comments? FRA ( talk) 17:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
"The real distinction between a state funeral and a ceremonial funeral is that a state funeral requires a motion or vote in Parliament.
and
However, state funerals may also be granted and accorded to other individuals who make significant contributions to the nation by a resolution of the United States Congress. "
So the Congress and the UK Parliament are only in session for about half of the year. What happens when some celeb who deserves a state funeral dies some time during the rest of the year ? Do they postpone the funeral indefinitely until the legislature reconvenes to authorise it ? Eregli bob ( talk) 11:25, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Well, speaking from the U.S. perspective.... I can certainly say for a fact that non-political people who are given American state funerals beyond being a sitting or former president, the decision to give them one is decided months and even years in advance since these funerals have to be planned out to the max. For example, it was decided to give Douglas MacArthur a state funeral long before he finally died in 1965. Another example would be George Dewey. State funerals are so rare in America unlike in Britain. They are not given or performed a lot. And even though U.S. presidents are automatically entitled to a state funeral, the majority of them have opted for a private service instead. Like the British monarch, a U.S. president has to file documents with the Military District of Washington about future plans for funeral arrangements. Before the Reagan state funeral in 2004, the last one was held way back in 1973 for Lyndon Johnson. Basically how it goes in the U.S., if you are not a sitting or former president and/or a five-star general in the military, then your chances of getting a state funeral are next to nothing.-- Yoganate79 ( talk) 05:54, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
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A good portion of this article simply lists people who has received a state funeral, and for some countries that's the only information given. I'd say we lift all them out of this into a separate list article - still sorted by country of course - and let this one be simply about the concept by county. Gaioa ( T C L) 12:50, 1 July 2020 (UTC) Seems like a good idea — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.179.8.66 ( talk) 11:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC) I agree, although it may shorten this article by quite a bit... Ths17sbu21 ( talk) 18:26, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Since there is no "Middle East" section, and a lack of precedence for Europe or Asia with nearby nations, does anyone have a suggestion where to include Israel and Palestine? There is some information that could be included in prose, like the protocol for state funerals in Israel is called "Havazelet", and several notable figures - we even have an article for the state funeral of Ariel Sharon. Kingsif ( talk) 15:40, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
Is thereany turkey's state funeral? 2A02:E0:867C:AB00:2079:67CF:D859:D6CB ( talk) 16:11, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
This is the
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State funeral article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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![]() | Material from State funeral was split to List of people who have received a state funeral on 07:58, 6 January 2023 from this version. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted so long as the latter page exists. Please leave this template in place to link the article histories and preserve this attribution. |
Wikipedia is not a newspaper. The Reagan text should be streamlined to discuss state funerals in the U.S. in general. It should not be a narrative of current events because this is an encyclopedia. Specific relevant text belongs at Ronald Reagan. -- Jia ng 11:55, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Text at http://199.231.147.241/general/index.html is public domain. -- Jia ng 11:59, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I agree, the repeated mentions of facts from Ronald Reagan's Presidency distrupt the flow of a discussion about US Presidential funeral practices. These points rightly belong in the Ronald_Reagan article. I'm willing to streamline them if needed, although I'd prefer the author to do so as I'm not an authority on this particular subject.
Changed "casket" to "coffin", since casket is a euphemism. 156.34.52.212 15:05, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
HAs any U.S. President ever laid in state with an open casket? That should be in this article, i.e. whether or not it has ever happened and to whom. - Husnock 6 Feb 05
If the sailors-pulling-the-coffin tradition dates to Victoria's funeral, and is the only dinstinctive feature of a state funeral, how can those who died prior to Victoria (Nelson, Wellington, Gladstone) have had a state funeral?
This article seems fairly biased. Many countries have state funerals (inluding e.g. Belgium, and the former Soviet Union). However only 3 current nations, UK, US and Canada are mentioned and one religious group Roman Catholic Church). Most surprisingly however is the mention without any kind of context of Nazi-German state funerals, why is this special enough to include. I would suggest a fairly thorough overhaul of this article. Arnoutf 19:08, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
Keeping in mind that this is an article about State funerals above all else, I have removed speculation and opinions about what the events of 9/11 may or may not have caused and what terrorists may or may not be targetting. A suggestion to SNIyer12: Contributing quotes from government officials and cited sources are a much better idea than using highly POV phrases like "these all sent two dreadful messages: state funerals are events of historic nature and terrorists want to disrupt it." This is not the only article I've seen you add such opinion and speculation to. -- Ds13 19:43, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Three times in three days, I have removed the claim (or its equivalent) by SNIyer12 that (U.S.) "state funerals are events that are terrorist targets". Lacking cited evidence that terrorists have attacked or planned to attack a U.S. state funeral, I have repeatedly replaced this claim with the wording "state funerals may be terrorist targets". I believe this is reasonable, since to assert that "state funerals are events that are terrorist targets" assumes knowledge that has not been shared, despite multiple requests for it.
SNIyer12 claims that John Ashcroft "also warned that there were therats of a terrorist attack" but this warning has not been cited. SNIyer12, we can put this issue to rest if you will share your knowledge of Ashcroft's warning or the specifics of a terrorist threat to a U.S. state funeral. -- Ds13 23:56, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Just a few questions re: the section on Canada. The article presently states that state funerals are only available for PMs and GGs. However, I was under the impression that the PM could declare a state funeral for any eminent Canadian (as I believe Martin did in the case of war hero "Smokey" Smith).
It also states equivocally that PM's lie in state in the Hall of honour, and GG's in the Senate Chamber. I seem to recall from when Hnatyshyn died that his casket was in the Senate Chamber not because of protocol, but at his request because his father served as a Senator. I do not recall what occurred when Sauve died, so i have no reference point.
On a related point, when Stanley Knowles passed away, his bodied lay in state in the foyer of the House of Commons. While I don't believe he was accorded a full state funeral, it certainly lends credence to the idea that things such as where the casket rests are not as etched in stone as this article suggests.
I wanted to clear these issues up before I started editing willy-nilly.
I have added Lord Palmerston's name to the list of non-royals who have had a state funeral.
However, there was no vote in Parliament for Lord Palmerston. Parliament was already prorogued at the time of his death and remained so until after the funeral. There was a subsequent vote of money for a statue.( 80.3.76.147 ( talk) 07:28, 10 April 2013 (UTC))
"in the case of Pope John Paul II the camerlengo called "Carolus""
Latin vocative ending = -e so should this not be "Carole" (viz. "Et tu Brute?" from Brut-us)
'The real distinction between a state funeral and a ceremonial funeral is that a state funeral requires a motion or vote in Parliament.'
Is there any source whatsoever for that? As far as I know a state funeral is given by command of the monarch, not by Parliament. -- Ibagli ( Talk) 03:25, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
What about republics?
Does anybody have a link to perhaps a PDF version of the mentioned 138-page planning document for state funerals, or is this secure information?
It is impossible to list and detail every country and former country in the world on this page. The article should start out with some general aspects of state funerals and link to individual pages on state funerals eg State funerals in the United States for each country.-- Jiang 01:18, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Were the legs of Brezhnev, Andropov & Chereneko amputated around the knees? I've found their lower bodies seemed strangley short within their open caskets. GoodDay ( talk) 21:03, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
I feel that the section "State funeral for King Taufa'ahau Tupou IV" is overly large and descriptive for such a specific event, I think it should be trimmed down or moved to a page specifically for this event. any objections/comments? FRA ( talk) 17:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
"The real distinction between a state funeral and a ceremonial funeral is that a state funeral requires a motion or vote in Parliament.
and
However, state funerals may also be granted and accorded to other individuals who make significant contributions to the nation by a resolution of the United States Congress. "
So the Congress and the UK Parliament are only in session for about half of the year. What happens when some celeb who deserves a state funeral dies some time during the rest of the year ? Do they postpone the funeral indefinitely until the legislature reconvenes to authorise it ? Eregli bob ( talk) 11:25, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Well, speaking from the U.S. perspective.... I can certainly say for a fact that non-political people who are given American state funerals beyond being a sitting or former president, the decision to give them one is decided months and even years in advance since these funerals have to be planned out to the max. For example, it was decided to give Douglas MacArthur a state funeral long before he finally died in 1965. Another example would be George Dewey. State funerals are so rare in America unlike in Britain. They are not given or performed a lot. And even though U.S. presidents are automatically entitled to a state funeral, the majority of them have opted for a private service instead. Like the British monarch, a U.S. president has to file documents with the Military District of Washington about future plans for funeral arrangements. Before the Reagan state funeral in 2004, the last one was held way back in 1973 for Lyndon Johnson. Basically how it goes in the U.S., if you are not a sitting or former president and/or a five-star general in the military, then your chances of getting a state funeral are next to nothing.-- Yoganate79 ( talk) 05:54, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
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A good portion of this article simply lists people who has received a state funeral, and for some countries that's the only information given. I'd say we lift all them out of this into a separate list article - still sorted by country of course - and let this one be simply about the concept by county. Gaioa ( T C L) 12:50, 1 July 2020 (UTC) Seems like a good idea — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.179.8.66 ( talk) 11:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC) I agree, although it may shorten this article by quite a bit... Ths17sbu21 ( talk) 18:26, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Since there is no "Middle East" section, and a lack of precedence for Europe or Asia with nearby nations, does anyone have a suggestion where to include Israel and Palestine? There is some information that could be included in prose, like the protocol for state funerals in Israel is called "Havazelet", and several notable figures - we even have an article for the state funeral of Ariel Sharon. Kingsif ( talk) 15:40, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
Is thereany turkey's state funeral? 2A02:E0:867C:AB00:2079:67CF:D859:D6CB ( talk) 16:11, 14 November 2022 (UTC)