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Is magnetic field also a state function? I feel it should be, but am hesitant to add it since I may be missing some subtlety. Also, the manner in which Markov properties are related to state functions is unclear to me, either from this article or the other. Perhaps this should be clarified or omitted. 144.213.253.14 02:21, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
I think it's worth adding a disambiguation for non-native speakers of the meaning of the term "state function" in contexts such as "Here is a picture of the Vice-President at a state function." Any ideas where such a disambiguation should point? A {{ wiktionary}} link would probably be the best solution, if Wiktionary had an entry for state function. -- Quuxplusone 16:06, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
As I find with most things relating to chemistry, this is a poorly defined term and its vaugeness and ambiguity lead to the inherint wishy-washyness of chemistry. I remember finally understanding what a "state function" was, but I've forgotten my revelation. This page should note some functions that *are not* state functions. I really can't think of anything. Perhaps... is work not a state function.. I'm not sure. Does "state function" mean that only the absolute spatial distance matters, or can the "path" something takes go through other parameters (for example, time, or energy)? Is there anyone knowlegable about this that can unambiguously explain "state function" and what functions its different from. Fresheneesz 10:10, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
My intuition tells me that this page should ideally be moved to Functions of state. From my experience, this is the most commonly used term. Any comments?-- Sadi Carnot 02:43, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Isn't this quite an important omission form the list of state functions? Initially I thought I must have been mistaken, and that it isn't one, but then it also appears to be in another list in the box in the top right-hand corner — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.185.74 ( talk) 11:36, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
The section Functions of state Overview makes frequent reference to functions of state as parameters. They aren't, they are states, they describe the system. Parameters in thermodynamics can be constants such as the Boltzmann constant; the value of the Boltzmann constant (the specific thermal energy of a particle) may be given in terms of Joules/Kelvin; Ev/oR etc. etc. and it is necessary to ensure that there is consistency with the variables (arguments) used in the equations. But the Boltzmann constant is not a variable, it only relates the variables. -- Damorbel ( talk) 08:59, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
The opening statement contains the assertion:-
This is far from correct. The system does not have to "be in equilibrium" to have properties such as, internal energy, enthalpy, and entropy, as the article says.
This may appear trivial to the uninitiated. But, for example, a system only achieves maximum entropy when in equilibrium. However it still has a (lower) entropy before achieving equilibrium. -- Damorbel ( talk) 10:11, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Is path independence the only criteria for appearing on this list?? In all my engineering physics courses, altitude has never been presented as a state function in a thermodynamic context. Since altitude in thermodynamics fixes two other independent quantities, namely temperature and density, it shouldn't exist in this list. More fitting would be electromagnetic (potential) fields or location in a gravity field (which BTW is different from ALTITUDE which has an atmospheric context...)
My ludicrous suggestions for additions to this list are meant to draw your attention to this issue. Altitude is NOT an independent thermodynamic state. Indeed your 'altitude' as used in thermodynamics requires knowledge of the atmosphere. Please keep in mind that the link in "Altitude" takes you to an aeronautical/atmospheric description.
Loose paraphrase from my (well-known) thermo text: "if gravitational effects are to be considered, the variable z must be taken into account" VARIABLE Z IS NOT AN ALTITUDE IT IS DISTANCE FROM CENTER OF MASS OF MY GRAVITY PRODUCING OBJECT
kthxbye
sorry if this list was compiled by some professor or authoritative figure, but altitude is literally not the right word here.
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
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Is magnetic field also a state function? I feel it should be, but am hesitant to add it since I may be missing some subtlety. Also, the manner in which Markov properties are related to state functions is unclear to me, either from this article or the other. Perhaps this should be clarified or omitted. 144.213.253.14 02:21, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
I think it's worth adding a disambiguation for non-native speakers of the meaning of the term "state function" in contexts such as "Here is a picture of the Vice-President at a state function." Any ideas where such a disambiguation should point? A {{ wiktionary}} link would probably be the best solution, if Wiktionary had an entry for state function. -- Quuxplusone 16:06, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
As I find with most things relating to chemistry, this is a poorly defined term and its vaugeness and ambiguity lead to the inherint wishy-washyness of chemistry. I remember finally understanding what a "state function" was, but I've forgotten my revelation. This page should note some functions that *are not* state functions. I really can't think of anything. Perhaps... is work not a state function.. I'm not sure. Does "state function" mean that only the absolute spatial distance matters, or can the "path" something takes go through other parameters (for example, time, or energy)? Is there anyone knowlegable about this that can unambiguously explain "state function" and what functions its different from. Fresheneesz 10:10, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
My intuition tells me that this page should ideally be moved to Functions of state. From my experience, this is the most commonly used term. Any comments?-- Sadi Carnot 02:43, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Isn't this quite an important omission form the list of state functions? Initially I thought I must have been mistaken, and that it isn't one, but then it also appears to be in another list in the box in the top right-hand corner — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.185.74 ( talk) 11:36, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
The section Functions of state Overview makes frequent reference to functions of state as parameters. They aren't, they are states, they describe the system. Parameters in thermodynamics can be constants such as the Boltzmann constant; the value of the Boltzmann constant (the specific thermal energy of a particle) may be given in terms of Joules/Kelvin; Ev/oR etc. etc. and it is necessary to ensure that there is consistency with the variables (arguments) used in the equations. But the Boltzmann constant is not a variable, it only relates the variables. -- Damorbel ( talk) 08:59, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
The opening statement contains the assertion:-
This is far from correct. The system does not have to "be in equilibrium" to have properties such as, internal energy, enthalpy, and entropy, as the article says.
This may appear trivial to the uninitiated. But, for example, a system only achieves maximum entropy when in equilibrium. However it still has a (lower) entropy before achieving equilibrium. -- Damorbel ( talk) 10:11, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Is path independence the only criteria for appearing on this list?? In all my engineering physics courses, altitude has never been presented as a state function in a thermodynamic context. Since altitude in thermodynamics fixes two other independent quantities, namely temperature and density, it shouldn't exist in this list. More fitting would be electromagnetic (potential) fields or location in a gravity field (which BTW is different from ALTITUDE which has an atmospheric context...)
My ludicrous suggestions for additions to this list are meant to draw your attention to this issue. Altitude is NOT an independent thermodynamic state. Indeed your 'altitude' as used in thermodynamics requires knowledge of the atmosphere. Please keep in mind that the link in "Altitude" takes you to an aeronautical/atmospheric description.
Loose paraphrase from my (well-known) thermo text: "if gravitational effects are to be considered, the variable z must be taken into account" VARIABLE Z IS NOT AN ALTITUDE IT IS DISTANCE FROM CENTER OF MASS OF MY GRAVITY PRODUCING OBJECT
kthxbye
sorry if this list was compiled by some professor or authoritative figure, but altitude is literally not the right word here.