 | Classical League Unassessed ( inactive) | ||||||
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 | This article was nominated for deletion on 14 May 2010. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
Based on consensus, neither state officers nor state chairs are considered encyclopedic (even if they are current) and therefore do not belong here. Consider facts like: a state chapter's history (when it was formed, who formed it, etc.); facts about state convention(s) (recent locations, first year held, events/competitions, when is it/are they held, etc.); services performed (charities, etc.)... among other things. Also, keep in mind that without a reliable source, contributions to this article, however factual they may be, will likely be removed in the long run (if not sooner). Google news is a good place to start, as are any online databases your local library may have. LVClb1 ( talk) 01:45, 22 July 2010 (UTC) Addendum: one other VERY important thing to remember: external links do not belong in the body of the article!!!
This article was originally titled " National Junior Classical League state chapters". In August 2012, I moved it to " Junior Classical League state chapters". This was done for two reasons: first, to differentiate it from the parent article National Junior Classical League (both titles began with the same four words and both covered closely related topics); and second, to abbreviate a somewhat lengthy name. I made this clear in my edit summary at the time, and the page remained at "Junior Classical League state chapters" for well over a year. Days ago, Ktr101 moved the page again, this time to " State chapters of the National Junior Classical League", and without specifying any reason for the move. I don't necessarily have a problem w/ Ktr101's move, but I would prefer some kind of discussion before proceeding, and this is why I moved it back to the title in use since 2012. Levdr1lp / talk 05:13, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
- I just did it for the full name, as it sounds more official. The order was based on names I've used for these things before, so that is why I did it in that style.
Kevin Rutherford (
talk)
05:29, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
- @
Ktr101: It just feels too long. And "official" names aren't always preferred --
WP:COMMONNAME. I don't see any harm in using the easily recognizable "Junior Classical League" as a generic descriptor, as "state chapters" provides the specificity needed to differentiate from the national organization.
Levdr1lp /
talk
06:08, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
- I've written articles with titles twice that length, so I really don't see the point of the proposed title being too long. Also, per COMMONNAME, I have never heard NJCL referred to in conversation as Junior Classical League, unless we are talking about the local chapter level, and even then it's rare.
Kevin Rutherford (
talk)
15:43, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
- agree with ktr; i'm personally a fan of "list of" articles because it's very clear what we're getting at. on that account though, i would not say "Junior Classical League state chapters" would be considered a common name. no one at the national level (i.e. natcom) would refer to them collectively as such (collectively without the "national" would indeed by default refer that attendee's particular local or state chapter, and no one would say "my jcl state chapter," they would just say the "[state name] chapter"), and "it just feels too long" (other than being a very good "that's what she said" whizbang) isn't a good reason to rename, either (see something like
List of superhuman features and abilities in fiction). Impasse 15:52, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
- @
Ktr101: Just b/c some articles require longer titles doesn't mean a longer title is required, or even preferred, here. There's no need for the extra three of four words, and all the additional markup it would bring, when a shorter title conveys the same information. And in my experience, the national/state qualifiers were only ever really used at national conventions. The term "Junior Classical League" is generic and is commonly used in reference to the national, state, and even local levels. Again, noting that this article covers "state" organizations negates the need to say they are branches of a national organization. It's implied in the title, and explicitly stated in the lead.
Levdr1lp /
talk
01:50, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
- @
Levdr1lp: I hope you do realize that a few extra words will not break the site or cause a horrible inconvenience to users. You have to remember that outside of those of us who are in J/S/ACL, this term is not common. To use slang like that and omit "National" means that we are essentially portraying out bias onto the site at the expense of the casual user who has no idea what JCL is in the first place. The whole idea of Wikipedia is to be used and understood by everyone, no matter their level of familiarity with the information involved on the site. Titles are meant to explain what the articles are about, so that is why the full name should be used here.
Kevin Rutherford (
talk)
18:31, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
- @ Ktr101: Change the title to State chapters of the National Junior Classical League. Levdr1lp / talk 17:59, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
- @
Levdr1lp: I hope you do realize that a few extra words will not break the site or cause a horrible inconvenience to users. You have to remember that outside of those of us who are in J/S/ACL, this term is not common. To use slang like that and omit "National" means that we are essentially portraying out bias onto the site at the expense of the casual user who has no idea what JCL is in the first place. The whole idea of Wikipedia is to be used and understood by everyone, no matter their level of familiarity with the information involved on the site. Titles are meant to explain what the articles are about, so that is why the full name should be used here.
Kevin Rutherford (
talk)
18:31, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
- @
Ktr101: Just b/c some articles require longer titles doesn't mean a longer title is required, or even preferred, here. There's no need for the extra three of four words, and all the additional markup it would bring, when a shorter title conveys the same information. And in my experience, the national/state qualifiers were only ever really used at national conventions. The term "Junior Classical League" is generic and is commonly used in reference to the national, state, and even local levels. Again, noting that this article covers "state" organizations negates the need to say they are branches of a national organization. It's implied in the title, and explicitly stated in the lead.
Levdr1lp /
talk
01:50, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
- agree with ktr; i'm personally a fan of "list of" articles because it's very clear what we're getting at. on that account though, i would not say "Junior Classical League state chapters" would be considered a common name. no one at the national level (i.e. natcom) would refer to them collectively as such (collectively without the "national" would indeed by default refer that attendee's particular local or state chapter, and no one would say "my jcl state chapter," they would just say the "[state name] chapter"), and "it just feels too long" (other than being a very good "that's what she said" whizbang) isn't a good reason to rename, either (see something like
List of superhuman features and abilities in fiction). Impasse 15:52, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
- I've written articles with titles twice that length, so I really don't see the point of the proposed title being too long. Also, per COMMONNAME, I have never heard NJCL referred to in conversation as Junior Classical League, unless we are talking about the local chapter level, and even then it's rare.
Kevin Rutherford (
talk)
15:43, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
- @
Ktr101: It just feels too long. And "official" names aren't always preferred --
WP:COMMONNAME. I don't see any harm in using the easily recognizable "Junior Classical League" as a generic descriptor, as "state chapters" provides the specificity needed to differentiate from the national organization.
Levdr1lp /
talk
06:08, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
|
| Classical League Unassessed ( inactive) | ||||||
| |||||||
|
| This article was nominated for deletion on 14 May 2010. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
Based on consensus, neither state officers nor state chairs are considered encyclopedic (even if they are current) and therefore do not belong here. Consider facts like: a state chapter's history (when it was formed, who formed it, etc.); facts about state convention(s) (recent locations, first year held, events/competitions, when is it/are they held, etc.); services performed (charities, etc.)... among other things. Also, keep in mind that without a reliable source, contributions to this article, however factual they may be, will likely be removed in the long run (if not sooner). Google news is a good place to start, as are any online databases your local library may have. LVClb1 ( talk) 01:45, 22 July 2010 (UTC) Addendum: one other VERY important thing to remember: external links do not belong in the body of the article!!!
This article was originally titled " National Junior Classical League state chapters". In August 2012, I moved it to " Junior Classical League state chapters". This was done for two reasons: first, to differentiate it from the parent article National Junior Classical League (both titles began with the same four words and both covered closely related topics); and second, to abbreviate a somewhat lengthy name. I made this clear in my edit summary at the time, and the page remained at "Junior Classical League state chapters" for well over a year. Days ago, Ktr101 moved the page again, this time to " State chapters of the National Junior Classical League", and without specifying any reason for the move. I don't necessarily have a problem w/ Ktr101's move, but I would prefer some kind of discussion before proceeding, and this is why I moved it back to the title in use since 2012. Levdr1lp / talk 05:13, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
- I just did it for the full name, as it sounds more official. The order was based on names I've used for these things before, so that is why I did it in that style.
Kevin Rutherford (
talk)
05:29, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
- @
Ktr101: It just feels too long. And "official" names aren't always preferred --
WP:COMMONNAME. I don't see any harm in using the easily recognizable "Junior Classical League" as a generic descriptor, as "state chapters" provides the specificity needed to differentiate from the national organization.
Levdr1lp /
talk
06:08, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
- I've written articles with titles twice that length, so I really don't see the point of the proposed title being too long. Also, per COMMONNAME, I have never heard NJCL referred to in conversation as Junior Classical League, unless we are talking about the local chapter level, and even then it's rare.
Kevin Rutherford (
talk)
15:43, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
- agree with ktr; i'm personally a fan of "list of" articles because it's very clear what we're getting at. on that account though, i would not say "Junior Classical League state chapters" would be considered a common name. no one at the national level (i.e. natcom) would refer to them collectively as such (collectively without the "national" would indeed by default refer that attendee's particular local or state chapter, and no one would say "my jcl state chapter," they would just say the "[state name] chapter"), and "it just feels too long" (other than being a very good "that's what she said" whizbang) isn't a good reason to rename, either (see something like
List of superhuman features and abilities in fiction). Impasse 15:52, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
- @
Ktr101: Just b/c some articles require longer titles doesn't mean a longer title is required, or even preferred, here. There's no need for the extra three of four words, and all the additional markup it would bring, when a shorter title conveys the same information. And in my experience, the national/state qualifiers were only ever really used at national conventions. The term "Junior Classical League" is generic and is commonly used in reference to the national, state, and even local levels. Again, noting that this article covers "state" organizations negates the need to say they are branches of a national organization. It's implied in the title, and explicitly stated in the lead.
Levdr1lp /
talk
01:50, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
- @
Levdr1lp: I hope you do realize that a few extra words will not break the site or cause a horrible inconvenience to users. You have to remember that outside of those of us who are in J/S/ACL, this term is not common. To use slang like that and omit "National" means that we are essentially portraying out bias onto the site at the expense of the casual user who has no idea what JCL is in the first place. The whole idea of Wikipedia is to be used and understood by everyone, no matter their level of familiarity with the information involved on the site. Titles are meant to explain what the articles are about, so that is why the full name should be used here.
Kevin Rutherford (
talk)
18:31, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
- @ Ktr101: Change the title to State chapters of the National Junior Classical League. Levdr1lp / talk 17:59, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
- @
Levdr1lp: I hope you do realize that a few extra words will not break the site or cause a horrible inconvenience to users. You have to remember that outside of those of us who are in J/S/ACL, this term is not common. To use slang like that and omit "National" means that we are essentially portraying out bias onto the site at the expense of the casual user who has no idea what JCL is in the first place. The whole idea of Wikipedia is to be used and understood by everyone, no matter their level of familiarity with the information involved on the site. Titles are meant to explain what the articles are about, so that is why the full name should be used here.
Kevin Rutherford (
talk)
18:31, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
- @
Ktr101: Just b/c some articles require longer titles doesn't mean a longer title is required, or even preferred, here. There's no need for the extra three of four words, and all the additional markup it would bring, when a shorter title conveys the same information. And in my experience, the national/state qualifiers were only ever really used at national conventions. The term "Junior Classical League" is generic and is commonly used in reference to the national, state, and even local levels. Again, noting that this article covers "state" organizations negates the need to say they are branches of a national organization. It's implied in the title, and explicitly stated in the lead.
Levdr1lp /
talk
01:50, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
- agree with ktr; i'm personally a fan of "list of" articles because it's very clear what we're getting at. on that account though, i would not say "Junior Classical League state chapters" would be considered a common name. no one at the national level (i.e. natcom) would refer to them collectively as such (collectively without the "national" would indeed by default refer that attendee's particular local or state chapter, and no one would say "my jcl state chapter," they would just say the "[state name] chapter"), and "it just feels too long" (other than being a very good "that's what she said" whizbang) isn't a good reason to rename, either (see something like
List of superhuman features and abilities in fiction). Impasse 15:52, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
- I've written articles with titles twice that length, so I really don't see the point of the proposed title being too long. Also, per COMMONNAME, I have never heard NJCL referred to in conversation as Junior Classical League, unless we are talking about the local chapter level, and even then it's rare.
Kevin Rutherford (
talk)
15:43, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
- @
Ktr101: It just feels too long. And "official" names aren't always preferred --
WP:COMMONNAME. I don't see any harm in using the easily recognizable "Junior Classical League" as a generic descriptor, as "state chapters" provides the specificity needed to differentiate from the national organization.
Levdr1lp /
talk
06:08, 27 March 2014 (UTC)