(Note this page's history is found at Talk:Star_Trek/Archive4)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 9 |
A recent update changed the wording of Deep Space 9's description from a "Federation outpost" to a "Bajoran outpost under Federation control". Even though that sounds right to me (though I'm not absolutely sure), it raises an interesting question. Why would a Bajoran outpost adopt the name "Deep Space 9"? The "Deep Space" nomenclature comes from Starfleet; i.e., the Federation. (Witness the occasional mention of other Deep Space # stations throughout ST:TNG and the other series and movies.) Wouldn't the Bajorans change its old Cardassian name of Terok Nor (sp?) to a Bajoran one? The station certainly isn't in "deep space" relative to Bajor! -- Jeff Q 10:01, 24 May 2004 (UTC)
These lists of characters should be in the articles for the respective series' and films. They remain here for reference. Characters common to many of the "regions" of characters, like Q, still belong in this article.
Original crew of the USS Enterprise NCC 1701
Regular crew of the USS Enterprise NCC 1701
Regular crew of the USS Enterprise NCC 1701-D
Regular crew and civilians of the Federation Station Deep Space Nine
Regular crew of the USS Voyager NCC-74656
Regular crew of Enterprise NX-01
Other Recurring Characters
In section Games, "subsection" Computer/video games, I would very much like to see the year of release and the producing company's name, for each game, instead of a list of producers on top. I have started doing this for a few games (listed the producers at least) but could do with some help. Also, in the future, we should perhaps list the games' platforms, so readers might get a picture of which computers/video game consoles have been 'supported by Star Trek' at various times. -- Wernher 21:42, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
How can you seriously mean that Bajorans have anything to do with Israel or Jews? Their great pride is art and culture, and it's quite obvious that this planet (read country) is Greece. Greeks were also under occupation for a long time, treated badly....read: cardassians are probably Turks. :-)
"Alien species and political powers in Star Trek often have iconic properties. In some cases these have been directly envisioned by writers, and in others perceived such by fandom. Some examples:
"
I removed the above because it looks suspiciously like offensive, racist crap based on nothing but someone's stupid perceptions. If Earth had been intended to represent the USA then wouldn't it have been called 'USA' and Enterprise not given a multiracial crew? DJ Clayworth 15:27, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
The subject needs to be dealt with. Star Trek is famous for taking real-world ideological/political/ethinic groups and then thinly disguising them, and dealing with their issues in storylines. Sometimes 'Trek' didn't even disguise the allegory, and bluntly hit you over the head with it, as with "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" on race relations, and "Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country" with its oh-so-subtle (NOT!) take on the collapse of the Soviet Union. Whether or not anyone agrees with the list's presence in the article - and I agree with Mendalus that it is vulnerable to POV - the overall fact that Trek has always used human and alien races to present perspectives on real-world issues needs to be addressed in an encyclopedic article about 'Trek.'
If the list is not the right way to do it, fine, then we need suggestions. A paragraph might cover it, though I think it might be possible to write a whole article about the subject. How do we tackle the subject here in a sensitive, NPOV manner? Kevyn 22:13, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
"There is indeed plenty of material for discussion, and rec.arts.startrek.tech is exatly the place for it. An encyclopedia should deal with facts. I think we should restrict our parallels to cases where the authors intended there to be such a parallel.
It looks to me as though there are several categories of association here. First there are ones clearly intended to be parallels by the authors, into which seem to fall the Romulans/Rome, Suliban/Taliban. Some are a bit more generic - for example the Cardassians are clearly intended to be Imperialist agressors, but is there really any reason to think they represent one particular apressor rather than another. Finally there are cases where someone has clearly just though "Hey these guys remind me a bit of....". Vulcans=British clearly falls into that category. What we really need to do is distinguish between these (and preferably eliminate the last one, since it's wildly subjective). DJ Clayworth 15:09, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC) DJ Clayworth 14:01, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)
IMO, this page should steer a wide berth around parrallels between ST races and actual human groups unless Gene and crew actually documented such a relationship. If we start introducing non-factual parrallels, the possibility for sterotypes to creep into text increases and also increases the edit war risk. See the Israel and Yasser Arafat page... Revmachine21 05:07, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Why is the following failing to render in bold?
Acegikmo1 04:18, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Just wondering... should we have a Star Trek stub page? Allyunion 14:14, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
This article is far too long. It contains more information about TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY than their individual pages do. I think a lot of information needs to be moved out of this article and into the pages about each specific series, but I'm not sure how to determine what should still remain here. Any ideas? - Brian Kendig 18:03, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I've taken the first step by merging the TOS section into Star Trek: The Original Series. I intend to work on merging data from here into the other series' articles as soon as I get a chance. I figure this Star Trek article has enough to do, summarizing the planets, characters, comics, undeveloped series, novels, fan fiction, pop culture, and future of the franchise; it doesn't need to duplicate too much info about the individual series. Though I'd still like to have more than just a link to the series articles - what do you think belongs here from 'em? - Brian Kendig 17:05, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I changed the "Star Trek: The Next Generation" and "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" headers into links, that link to their obvious own section. It had already been done for Enterprise and Voyager, so I didn't see a reason for them not to be done. If TOS and the animated series have their own sections, I suggest doing it there too, for consistency. Spinboy 16:50, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
wp WP:MOS
A thought came to me when I was exploring the Wikipedia and I ran into the World War III article. Is there some kind of Star Trek timeline or something regarding the events of the future in some kind of outline or something? Star Trek's history with the 20th century is slightly different from the actual history of our own. Perhaps it may be worthly to create an entry on the subject regarding the difference between actual history and Star Trek's fictional history -- along with any jumps and visits in time that should be included... obviously, the top of the page would require a spoiler warning. Kind of like a timeline of all the shows in a brief summary, using Stardates and real dates (whenever possible). -- Allyunion 10:38, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
(Note this page's history is found at Talk:Star_Trek/Archive4)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 9 |
A recent update changed the wording of Deep Space 9's description from a "Federation outpost" to a "Bajoran outpost under Federation control". Even though that sounds right to me (though I'm not absolutely sure), it raises an interesting question. Why would a Bajoran outpost adopt the name "Deep Space 9"? The "Deep Space" nomenclature comes from Starfleet; i.e., the Federation. (Witness the occasional mention of other Deep Space # stations throughout ST:TNG and the other series and movies.) Wouldn't the Bajorans change its old Cardassian name of Terok Nor (sp?) to a Bajoran one? The station certainly isn't in "deep space" relative to Bajor! -- Jeff Q 10:01, 24 May 2004 (UTC)
These lists of characters should be in the articles for the respective series' and films. They remain here for reference. Characters common to many of the "regions" of characters, like Q, still belong in this article.
Original crew of the USS Enterprise NCC 1701
Regular crew of the USS Enterprise NCC 1701
Regular crew of the USS Enterprise NCC 1701-D
Regular crew and civilians of the Federation Station Deep Space Nine
Regular crew of the USS Voyager NCC-74656
Regular crew of Enterprise NX-01
Other Recurring Characters
In section Games, "subsection" Computer/video games, I would very much like to see the year of release and the producing company's name, for each game, instead of a list of producers on top. I have started doing this for a few games (listed the producers at least) but could do with some help. Also, in the future, we should perhaps list the games' platforms, so readers might get a picture of which computers/video game consoles have been 'supported by Star Trek' at various times. -- Wernher 21:42, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
How can you seriously mean that Bajorans have anything to do with Israel or Jews? Their great pride is art and culture, and it's quite obvious that this planet (read country) is Greece. Greeks were also under occupation for a long time, treated badly....read: cardassians are probably Turks. :-)
"Alien species and political powers in Star Trek often have iconic properties. In some cases these have been directly envisioned by writers, and in others perceived such by fandom. Some examples:
"
I removed the above because it looks suspiciously like offensive, racist crap based on nothing but someone's stupid perceptions. If Earth had been intended to represent the USA then wouldn't it have been called 'USA' and Enterprise not given a multiracial crew? DJ Clayworth 15:27, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
The subject needs to be dealt with. Star Trek is famous for taking real-world ideological/political/ethinic groups and then thinly disguising them, and dealing with their issues in storylines. Sometimes 'Trek' didn't even disguise the allegory, and bluntly hit you over the head with it, as with "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" on race relations, and "Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country" with its oh-so-subtle (NOT!) take on the collapse of the Soviet Union. Whether or not anyone agrees with the list's presence in the article - and I agree with Mendalus that it is vulnerable to POV - the overall fact that Trek has always used human and alien races to present perspectives on real-world issues needs to be addressed in an encyclopedic article about 'Trek.'
If the list is not the right way to do it, fine, then we need suggestions. A paragraph might cover it, though I think it might be possible to write a whole article about the subject. How do we tackle the subject here in a sensitive, NPOV manner? Kevyn 22:13, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
"There is indeed plenty of material for discussion, and rec.arts.startrek.tech is exatly the place for it. An encyclopedia should deal with facts. I think we should restrict our parallels to cases where the authors intended there to be such a parallel.
It looks to me as though there are several categories of association here. First there are ones clearly intended to be parallels by the authors, into which seem to fall the Romulans/Rome, Suliban/Taliban. Some are a bit more generic - for example the Cardassians are clearly intended to be Imperialist agressors, but is there really any reason to think they represent one particular apressor rather than another. Finally there are cases where someone has clearly just though "Hey these guys remind me a bit of....". Vulcans=British clearly falls into that category. What we really need to do is distinguish between these (and preferably eliminate the last one, since it's wildly subjective). DJ Clayworth 15:09, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC) DJ Clayworth 14:01, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)
IMO, this page should steer a wide berth around parrallels between ST races and actual human groups unless Gene and crew actually documented such a relationship. If we start introducing non-factual parrallels, the possibility for sterotypes to creep into text increases and also increases the edit war risk. See the Israel and Yasser Arafat page... Revmachine21 05:07, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Why is the following failing to render in bold?
Acegikmo1 04:18, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Just wondering... should we have a Star Trek stub page? Allyunion 14:14, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
This article is far too long. It contains more information about TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY than their individual pages do. I think a lot of information needs to be moved out of this article and into the pages about each specific series, but I'm not sure how to determine what should still remain here. Any ideas? - Brian Kendig 18:03, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I've taken the first step by merging the TOS section into Star Trek: The Original Series. I intend to work on merging data from here into the other series' articles as soon as I get a chance. I figure this Star Trek article has enough to do, summarizing the planets, characters, comics, undeveloped series, novels, fan fiction, pop culture, and future of the franchise; it doesn't need to duplicate too much info about the individual series. Though I'd still like to have more than just a link to the series articles - what do you think belongs here from 'em? - Brian Kendig 17:05, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I changed the "Star Trek: The Next Generation" and "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" headers into links, that link to their obvious own section. It had already been done for Enterprise and Voyager, so I didn't see a reason for them not to be done. If TOS and the animated series have their own sections, I suggest doing it there too, for consistency. Spinboy 16:50, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
wp WP:MOS
A thought came to me when I was exploring the Wikipedia and I ran into the World War III article. Is there some kind of Star Trek timeline or something regarding the events of the future in some kind of outline or something? Star Trek's history with the 20th century is slightly different from the actual history of our own. Perhaps it may be worthly to create an entry on the subject regarding the difference between actual history and Star Trek's fictional history -- along with any jumps and visits in time that should be included... obviously, the top of the page would require a spoiler warning. Kind of like a timeline of all the shows in a brief summary, using Stardates and real dates (whenever possible). -- Allyunion 10:38, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)