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A recent edit [1] removed the following image (below). Is this image worth restoring? Isambard Kingdom ( talk) 19:23, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
I also have a minor problem with the current diagram. It shows the charged leptons above the neutrinos. I think it should be vice versa to reflect their order in the corresponding weak isospin doublets. I'm not sure if the current image can easily be modified to fit this because of the grouping that's shown in the background of the image. I could offer a diagram I made myself a couple of years ago (below the other one on the right). I can also upload it as svg if that's preferred Acrux13 ( talk) 17:30, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
I added a sentence saying Steven Weinberg claims he came up with the term for what we call today the Standard Model and added this: Although according to Steven Weinberg he came up with the term ref1: This World and the Universe, Steven Weinberg, Talks at Google https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnk0rnBQrR0&t=1080s ref2: World Science Festival 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-y3DPJRVhE but for some reason somebody reverted it. Why? Steven Weinberg is definitely an authority on the subject and I didn't say "SW came up with the term" but rather "SW claims he came up with the term" which is apparently correct, given his claims in the two videos. Shouldn't we have these in the history section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:4C4E:2042:6B00:2B3A:6ADB:93AA:BFAD ( talk) 20:06, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
Weinberg: We have a very good theory of all the particles and forces that we can study in the laboratory which I gave the name "The Standard Model", erm, which seemed to me not excessively immodest, I mean. Biologists have something called the Central Dogma and I was trying to avoid that [Host interrupts: The Weinberg Protocol?] Ha ha ha. Well I wouldn't say that either. But it works, and in an almost boringly repetitive way we keep testing it. The discovery of the Higgs boson a few years ago turned out to just fit what was expected. The Standard Model predicts all of its properties except its mass, and it was found, with all those properties, and now we know the mass experimentally. Erm. It would be tragic if the only thing we did, at the large Hadron Collider or anywhere else, was to go on elaborating the verification of the Standard Model. And... The Standard Model is certainly not the end of the story, no-one thinks it is. It has a lot of unexplained features like numerical quantities, ratios of masses, we don't know where they come from. It doesn't include gravitation, which is a big thing not to include. Erm. And we are not, we are happy with it as far as it goes. We desperately want to go beyond it. And erm we may not be able to, in our lifetimes.
Host: When did people start calling the whole thing the standard model? Weinberg: I don’t know exactly, but I remember using the name in 1973 during a talk in Aix-en-Provence in France. I wanted to point out to my audience that we physicists had a pretty good picture of elementary particles by then, and we could use this “standard model” as a device for interpreting experiments. Host: Did having “standard” in the name imply certainty for you? Weinberg: I was confident that the theory was right, but my confidence was partly shaken by data from a number of experiments in 1976 and 1977 that were hard to make sense of within the standard model. In the spring of 1977, I ended up canceling a trip I had planned with my wife and daughter to go to Yosemite. Instead, I spent that time working with my friend Ben Lee trying to find an alternative theory that could account for the experiments. I’m proud to say we failed, as it later turned out that the experiments were wrong. In the end, the issue was settled by a 1978 experiment at SLAC that confirmed the prediction of parity violation in the interaction of electrons with nuclei. After that, I think everyone was convinced that the standard model was correct.
i note that Weinberg's terminology evolves with physicists' increasing confidence: First he says "physicists had a pretty good picture of elementary particles", this picture he calls a standard model which he explains is 'a device for interpreting exeriments and in the next sentence he calls it a theory. Picture > model/device > theory. Worth a comment in a future terminology section. 2A00:23C6:54AD:5701:4A2:E31C:DC2F:45F8 ( talk) 17:28, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
What is File:Standard Model Forces.png meant to even show? It is completely unintelligible. I will be removing it again if no one explains (both here and in the text of the article) why it is useful here. 81.107.39.90 ( talk) 22:21, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
There's a mistake in the "Elementary particles" chart. Under Gauge Bosons, it has the header "Four kinds", but under that header it gives three items numbered 1, 2, and 3. Compare the nearly identical chart, in which there is an item 4, graviton, in the article Elementary_particle Evidently graviton was removed in this article since gravitons are not part of the Standard Model, but then there are only three kinds and the chart should be revised accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.10.180.57 ( talk) 20:30, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
The article currently contains the sentence "The Standard Model includes 12 elementary particles of spin 1⁄2, known as fermions." I'd like to see a similar statement somewhere in the article about how many bosonic elementary particles there are, if counted in the same physics-meaningful way. Thank you — Quantling ( talk | contribs) 18:35, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
This page should be moved to Standard model of particle physics. This is the full name of the topic of this article so this should be the title.
This page should instead redirect to
Standard model (disambiguation). EDIT: To preserve existing links it's better to make
Standard model redirect to the new page name.
The term "Standard Model" is very general. It can be use and is used to refer to a lot of different things in different contexts. Having this term as the title of this page is confusing to readers. Liiiii ( talk) 10:01, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
The following is an answer to all the various comments. Thank you everyone for your opinions!
Please look at the top of the article. It has a template with the title "Standard model of particle physics".
That's the full formal name of the theory. "Standard model" a shortened term that is used colloquially mainly within the field of particle physics. The title of an encyclopedic article should be the full name. Using the colloquial term as the title is wrong and confusing.
"Standard model" is a general term that has a general meaning and is used in a lot of different fields. The following is a list of a just a few examples:
The "Standard model" part of the name "Standard model of particle physics" refers to this general concept of a standard model. This general concept is the main meaning of the term. It is wrong and confusing to have an article about a particle physics theory to have this name.
I hope that this convinces you about what the most appropriate name for this article is. I will go ahead and perform the rename shortly if I don't receive any other objections.
Liiiii ( talk) 11:16, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
In the introductory section, where the Standard Model's shortcomings are listed, I noticed the following statement: It also does not incorporate neutrino oscillations and their non-zero masses. I think this sentence might be partially incorrect. As I understand it, the Pontecorvo–Maki–Nakagawa–Sakata matrix, which describes neutrino oscillations, is in fact just part of the Standard Model. Should this be changed or am I wrong about something? KeelyMcBonk ( talk) 12:04, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
![]() | Standard Model was nominated as a Natural sciences good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (July 5, 2021). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
Index
|
||
This page has archives. Sections older than 833.5 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
A recent edit [1] removed the following image (below). Is this image worth restoring? Isambard Kingdom ( talk) 19:23, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
I also have a minor problem with the current diagram. It shows the charged leptons above the neutrinos. I think it should be vice versa to reflect their order in the corresponding weak isospin doublets. I'm not sure if the current image can easily be modified to fit this because of the grouping that's shown in the background of the image. I could offer a diagram I made myself a couple of years ago (below the other one on the right). I can also upload it as svg if that's preferred Acrux13 ( talk) 17:30, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
I added a sentence saying Steven Weinberg claims he came up with the term for what we call today the Standard Model and added this: Although according to Steven Weinberg he came up with the term ref1: This World and the Universe, Steven Weinberg, Talks at Google https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnk0rnBQrR0&t=1080s ref2: World Science Festival 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-y3DPJRVhE but for some reason somebody reverted it. Why? Steven Weinberg is definitely an authority on the subject and I didn't say "SW came up with the term" but rather "SW claims he came up with the term" which is apparently correct, given his claims in the two videos. Shouldn't we have these in the history section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:4C4E:2042:6B00:2B3A:6ADB:93AA:BFAD ( talk) 20:06, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
Weinberg: We have a very good theory of all the particles and forces that we can study in the laboratory which I gave the name "The Standard Model", erm, which seemed to me not excessively immodest, I mean. Biologists have something called the Central Dogma and I was trying to avoid that [Host interrupts: The Weinberg Protocol?] Ha ha ha. Well I wouldn't say that either. But it works, and in an almost boringly repetitive way we keep testing it. The discovery of the Higgs boson a few years ago turned out to just fit what was expected. The Standard Model predicts all of its properties except its mass, and it was found, with all those properties, and now we know the mass experimentally. Erm. It would be tragic if the only thing we did, at the large Hadron Collider or anywhere else, was to go on elaborating the verification of the Standard Model. And... The Standard Model is certainly not the end of the story, no-one thinks it is. It has a lot of unexplained features like numerical quantities, ratios of masses, we don't know where they come from. It doesn't include gravitation, which is a big thing not to include. Erm. And we are not, we are happy with it as far as it goes. We desperately want to go beyond it. And erm we may not be able to, in our lifetimes.
Host: When did people start calling the whole thing the standard model? Weinberg: I don’t know exactly, but I remember using the name in 1973 during a talk in Aix-en-Provence in France. I wanted to point out to my audience that we physicists had a pretty good picture of elementary particles by then, and we could use this “standard model” as a device for interpreting experiments. Host: Did having “standard” in the name imply certainty for you? Weinberg: I was confident that the theory was right, but my confidence was partly shaken by data from a number of experiments in 1976 and 1977 that were hard to make sense of within the standard model. In the spring of 1977, I ended up canceling a trip I had planned with my wife and daughter to go to Yosemite. Instead, I spent that time working with my friend Ben Lee trying to find an alternative theory that could account for the experiments. I’m proud to say we failed, as it later turned out that the experiments were wrong. In the end, the issue was settled by a 1978 experiment at SLAC that confirmed the prediction of parity violation in the interaction of electrons with nuclei. After that, I think everyone was convinced that the standard model was correct.
i note that Weinberg's terminology evolves with physicists' increasing confidence: First he says "physicists had a pretty good picture of elementary particles", this picture he calls a standard model which he explains is 'a device for interpreting exeriments and in the next sentence he calls it a theory. Picture > model/device > theory. Worth a comment in a future terminology section. 2A00:23C6:54AD:5701:4A2:E31C:DC2F:45F8 ( talk) 17:28, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
What is File:Standard Model Forces.png meant to even show? It is completely unintelligible. I will be removing it again if no one explains (both here and in the text of the article) why it is useful here. 81.107.39.90 ( talk) 22:21, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
There's a mistake in the "Elementary particles" chart. Under Gauge Bosons, it has the header "Four kinds", but under that header it gives three items numbered 1, 2, and 3. Compare the nearly identical chart, in which there is an item 4, graviton, in the article Elementary_particle Evidently graviton was removed in this article since gravitons are not part of the Standard Model, but then there are only three kinds and the chart should be revised accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.10.180.57 ( talk) 20:30, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
The article currently contains the sentence "The Standard Model includes 12 elementary particles of spin 1⁄2, known as fermions." I'd like to see a similar statement somewhere in the article about how many bosonic elementary particles there are, if counted in the same physics-meaningful way. Thank you — Quantling ( talk | contribs) 18:35, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
This page should be moved to Standard model of particle physics. This is the full name of the topic of this article so this should be the title.
This page should instead redirect to
Standard model (disambiguation). EDIT: To preserve existing links it's better to make
Standard model redirect to the new page name.
The term "Standard Model" is very general. It can be use and is used to refer to a lot of different things in different contexts. Having this term as the title of this page is confusing to readers. Liiiii ( talk) 10:01, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
The following is an answer to all the various comments. Thank you everyone for your opinions!
Please look at the top of the article. It has a template with the title "Standard model of particle physics".
That's the full formal name of the theory. "Standard model" a shortened term that is used colloquially mainly within the field of particle physics. The title of an encyclopedic article should be the full name. Using the colloquial term as the title is wrong and confusing.
"Standard model" is a general term that has a general meaning and is used in a lot of different fields. The following is a list of a just a few examples:
The "Standard model" part of the name "Standard model of particle physics" refers to this general concept of a standard model. This general concept is the main meaning of the term. It is wrong and confusing to have an article about a particle physics theory to have this name.
I hope that this convinces you about what the most appropriate name for this article is. I will go ahead and perform the rename shortly if I don't receive any other objections.
Liiiii ( talk) 11:16, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
In the introductory section, where the Standard Model's shortcomings are listed, I noticed the following statement: It also does not incorporate neutrino oscillations and their non-zero masses. I think this sentence might be partially incorrect. As I understand it, the Pontecorvo–Maki–Nakagawa–Sakata matrix, which describes neutrino oscillations, is in fact just part of the Standard Model. Should this be changed or am I wrong about something? KeelyMcBonk ( talk) 12:04, 17 June 2024 (UTC)