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This Wiki article was really interesting a year or more ago. It was one of my jumping off points to a far more thorough investigation of the history of the song. This article has been dumbed down from something astounding to something sort of interesting. Part of what makes the history of this song so fascinating is how it gets retold and refashioned. It is not merely 100s of people singing the same song with the same music and same lyrics. The story surfaces in a variety of media from pornographic film to graphic novel and is so iconic it was referenced in professional wrestling. This is almost certainly the only song to have been every genre of modern music since ragtime. This song traces the history of last century of music and the article used to give some sense of that. Now it's been whittled down to dullness.-- Cameason ( talk) 06:36, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
This article would be improved by a including sourced references to the written sources about the song; a chronoloagical list of selected recorded versions; and a discussion of the styles, i.e first recording, first blues version, first country version, first pop version, first reggae version, etc.-- Design ( talk) 14:01, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
Nick Cave's funky version of the traditional "Stagger Lee" appears on the album Murder Ballads. It is based upon two sources: a risqué recording by Johnny Otis’ group Snatch & The Poontangs from their 1970 album For Adults Only!, and a 1967 'toast' recitation by a prison inmate known as Big Stick, transcribed in Auburn Prison, New York, 1967, published in the 1976 book The Life - The Lore and Folk Poetry of the Black Hustler by Dennis Wepman, Ronald B. Newman, Murray B. Binderman, ISBN 0-87067-367-X. Cave edited the transcription slighty, while his band The Bad Seeds produced a funky groove. The Johhny Otis version is lyrically close to Cave's, but the Big Stick version is almost intact.-- Design ( talk) 14:01, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
Dick Clark didn't personally want the lyrics changed for broadcast on "Bandstand." It was ABC broadcast standards and practices that nixed the lyrics for broadcast. Hence, the network's own record subsidiary, ABC Paramount Records, issued a broadcast-only version for "Bandstand" and for any other radio or TV station in the country that might have problems with the "murder" version. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.125.72.33 ( talk) 22:23, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
"Toasts are pre-rap poems and stories especially popular among those in "the life" and among prisoners. " Other than the "pre-rap poem" part, this is hardly an apt description of toasts. And what the hell is "the life"? Are there references for "the life"? Does this mean criminals? If it does, then this whole sentence is woefully inaccurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.227.232.77 ( talk) 14:19, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
The article states that this song was first published in 1911 and then later states that this was published by John Lomax in 1910. Which date is correct? Jtyroler ( talk) 08:56, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved to Stagger Lee. Bit of an odd one: consensus is pretty clear that the song is the primary topic of both names, but there's no consensus on which name should be used. As such, the old name will be retained but moved to the primary topic location. I'd probably recommend a new RM solely focussed on "Stagger Lee" vs "Stagolee" in a few months. Jenks24 ( talk) 07:41, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Stagger Lee (song) →
Stagolee – First, this is the clear primary topic of the three ambiguous articles; it gets over
10k page views, double the combined hits for
Stagger Lee Shelton and
Lee Marshall (announcer) (who was evidently only called "Stagger Lee" for the few years he was with WCW). Second, "Stagolee" appears to be the more common form of the name (though "Stagger Lee" is also quite common). "Stagolee" gets
9,810 hits on Google Books, compared to
7,770 for "Stagger Lee".
This ngram suggests it's always been more common. This is also the the form used, for instance, in Cecil Brown's Harvard-published book on the subject,
Stagolee Shot Billy and
John and
Alan Lomax's
American Ballads and Folk Songs. "Stagger Lee" should redirect to the song, so I suggest the dab page be moved to
Stagger Lee (disambiguation)
Cúchullain
t/
c 20:01, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
So the "stag o" part was just something they added to Lee's name to make the song sound right? It didn't imply anything? I've been misinformed! I'm going to kick that really old blues singer around for lying to me. Or maybe a re-check of the facts is in order here, like you need someone old for a reference instead of a book. Pb8bije6a7b6a3w ( talk) 15:26, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
How about other related articles like "Stack-o-Lee"? I guess those should be altered too, if this works out. Pb8bije6a7b6a3w ( talk) 01:27, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Ojorojo ( talk · contribs) removed the "Other artists" section, saying, rm duplicated artists (discussed in text). Rather than undo, I'll put here the list of those not otherwise mentioned.
—
Tamfang (
talk) 17:40, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
Do these meet the requirements of
WP:COVERSONG?:
When a song has renditions (recorded or performed) by more than one artist, discussion of a particular artist's rendition should be included in the song's article (never in a separate article), but only if at least one of the following applies:
- the rendition is discussed by a reliable source on the subject of the song,
- the rendition itself meets the notability requirement at WP:NSONGS.
Without any discussion or references, it is difficult to tell. — Ojorojo ( talk) 22:25, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
References
Why was this particular lowlife murder so significant? 2600:1010:B065:7B5C:AC81:157B:B0D3:8EFF ( talk) 05:00, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
Lonnie certainly sang this one, early in his career, possibly when he was still working for Chris Barber. I don't see any mention of their names. Valetude ( talk) 23:52, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
Under Other post-war versions, there's an entry for a version by the band "Three For Silver." They don't have their own artist page, and there was a link to their website. Felt like it was on the lines of WP:NOTPROMO, so I removed. Ehler ( talk) 03:44, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
This Wiki article was really interesting a year or more ago. It was one of my jumping off points to a far more thorough investigation of the history of the song. This article has been dumbed down from something astounding to something sort of interesting. Part of what makes the history of this song so fascinating is how it gets retold and refashioned. It is not merely 100s of people singing the same song with the same music and same lyrics. The story surfaces in a variety of media from pornographic film to graphic novel and is so iconic it was referenced in professional wrestling. This is almost certainly the only song to have been every genre of modern music since ragtime. This song traces the history of last century of music and the article used to give some sense of that. Now it's been whittled down to dullness.-- Cameason ( talk) 06:36, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
This article would be improved by a including sourced references to the written sources about the song; a chronoloagical list of selected recorded versions; and a discussion of the styles, i.e first recording, first blues version, first country version, first pop version, first reggae version, etc.-- Design ( talk) 14:01, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
Nick Cave's funky version of the traditional "Stagger Lee" appears on the album Murder Ballads. It is based upon two sources: a risqué recording by Johnny Otis’ group Snatch & The Poontangs from their 1970 album For Adults Only!, and a 1967 'toast' recitation by a prison inmate known as Big Stick, transcribed in Auburn Prison, New York, 1967, published in the 1976 book The Life - The Lore and Folk Poetry of the Black Hustler by Dennis Wepman, Ronald B. Newman, Murray B. Binderman, ISBN 0-87067-367-X. Cave edited the transcription slighty, while his band The Bad Seeds produced a funky groove. The Johhny Otis version is lyrically close to Cave's, but the Big Stick version is almost intact.-- Design ( talk) 14:01, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
Dick Clark didn't personally want the lyrics changed for broadcast on "Bandstand." It was ABC broadcast standards and practices that nixed the lyrics for broadcast. Hence, the network's own record subsidiary, ABC Paramount Records, issued a broadcast-only version for "Bandstand" and for any other radio or TV station in the country that might have problems with the "murder" version. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.125.72.33 ( talk) 22:23, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
"Toasts are pre-rap poems and stories especially popular among those in "the life" and among prisoners. " Other than the "pre-rap poem" part, this is hardly an apt description of toasts. And what the hell is "the life"? Are there references for "the life"? Does this mean criminals? If it does, then this whole sentence is woefully inaccurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.227.232.77 ( talk) 14:19, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
The article states that this song was first published in 1911 and then later states that this was published by John Lomax in 1910. Which date is correct? Jtyroler ( talk) 08:56, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved to Stagger Lee. Bit of an odd one: consensus is pretty clear that the song is the primary topic of both names, but there's no consensus on which name should be used. As such, the old name will be retained but moved to the primary topic location. I'd probably recommend a new RM solely focussed on "Stagger Lee" vs "Stagolee" in a few months. Jenks24 ( talk) 07:41, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Stagger Lee (song) →
Stagolee – First, this is the clear primary topic of the three ambiguous articles; it gets over
10k page views, double the combined hits for
Stagger Lee Shelton and
Lee Marshall (announcer) (who was evidently only called "Stagger Lee" for the few years he was with WCW). Second, "Stagolee" appears to be the more common form of the name (though "Stagger Lee" is also quite common). "Stagolee" gets
9,810 hits on Google Books, compared to
7,770 for "Stagger Lee".
This ngram suggests it's always been more common. This is also the the form used, for instance, in Cecil Brown's Harvard-published book on the subject,
Stagolee Shot Billy and
John and
Alan Lomax's
American Ballads and Folk Songs. "Stagger Lee" should redirect to the song, so I suggest the dab page be moved to
Stagger Lee (disambiguation)
Cúchullain
t/
c 20:01, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
So the "stag o" part was just something they added to Lee's name to make the song sound right? It didn't imply anything? I've been misinformed! I'm going to kick that really old blues singer around for lying to me. Or maybe a re-check of the facts is in order here, like you need someone old for a reference instead of a book. Pb8bije6a7b6a3w ( talk) 15:26, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
How about other related articles like "Stack-o-Lee"? I guess those should be altered too, if this works out. Pb8bije6a7b6a3w ( talk) 01:27, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Ojorojo ( talk · contribs) removed the "Other artists" section, saying, rm duplicated artists (discussed in text). Rather than undo, I'll put here the list of those not otherwise mentioned.
—
Tamfang (
talk) 17:40, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
Do these meet the requirements of
WP:COVERSONG?:
When a song has renditions (recorded or performed) by more than one artist, discussion of a particular artist's rendition should be included in the song's article (never in a separate article), but only if at least one of the following applies:
- the rendition is discussed by a reliable source on the subject of the song,
- the rendition itself meets the notability requirement at WP:NSONGS.
Without any discussion or references, it is difficult to tell. — Ojorojo ( talk) 22:25, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
References
Why was this particular lowlife murder so significant? 2600:1010:B065:7B5C:AC81:157B:B0D3:8EFF ( talk) 05:00, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
Lonnie certainly sang this one, early in his career, possibly when he was still working for Chris Barber. I don't see any mention of their names. Valetude ( talk) 23:52, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
Under Other post-war versions, there's an entry for a version by the band "Three For Silver." They don't have their own artist page, and there was a link to their website. Felt like it was on the lines of WP:NOTPROMO, so I removed. Ehler ( talk) 03:44, 24 April 2024 (UTC)